Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making

AsbestosPodcast.com

They knew. They always knew. Nearly 2,000 years ago, Roman historian Pliny the Elder documented asbestos workers dying from "sickness of the lungs"—watching slaves fashion crude respirators from animal bladders while weaving what he called "funeral dress for kings." The people closest to the dust understood the danger. The people farthest away admired the spectacle, collected the profits, and buried the evidence. That pattern never changed. Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making traces humanity's 4,500-year relationship with the mineral the ancient Greeks named "asbestos"—meaning indestructible. From Stone Age Finnish pottery (2500 BCE) to the $70+ billion in legal damages paid by modern corporations, we uncover how a material praised for safety became a source of sickness, litigation, and grief. Each episode explores: Ancient origins: The salamander myth that persisted for 2,000 years, the Roman tablecloths that cleaned themselves in fire, the sacred flames kept burning with asbestos wicks The industrial cover-up: Internal documents proving companies knew asbestos caused cancer since the 1930s—and suppressed the evidence for 40 years Modern consequences: Why mesothelioma claims 3,000 American lives annually, and why $30+ billion sits in asbestos trust funds waiting for victims who never file The science of denial: How manufactured doubt delayed regulation for decades, using the same tactics as the tobacco industry—sometimes with the same scientists Whether you're a history enthusiast, legal professional, medical researcher, or someone seeking answers after asbestos exposure, this podcast reveals the uncomfortable truth: the longest-running industrial cover-up in human history isn't ancient history. It's still happening. The History of Asbestos Podcast is sponsored by Danziger & De Llano, a nationwide mesothelioma law firm with over 30 years of experience and nearly $2 billion recovered for asbestos victims.  If you or a loved one has mesothelioma, visit Dandell.com for a free consultation.

  1. Episode 29: The Shipyard Generation

    11h ago

    Episode 29: The Shipyard Generation

    S1E29 — The Shipyard GenerationThe Asbestos Podcast · Season 1 · Arc 6: The War Effort (Finale) Episode 29 — The Shipyard Generation Veterans are 6 to 7 percent of the U.S. population. They account for 30 percent of all mesothelioma diagnoses. Navy veterans are 6.47 times more likely to die from mesothelioma than the general population. The average shipyard worker’s latency: 49.4 years. The reason isn’t bad luck. A factory worker goes home at night. A sailor lived inside his exposure — sleeping ten feet from the boiler room, eating in a mess hall surrounded by asbestos-insulated pipes, breathing ship air around the clock for years of service. Over 300 different asbestos-containing products on a single ship. Episode 29 is the Arc 6 finale. It follows the human cost of five episodes of statistics and corporate memos: three survivors who beat the odds the industry created, the 1977 discovery of the Sumner Simpson Papers that finally proved the cover-up, and the most tragic timing in American medical history — Dr. Irving Selikoff presented definitive proof that asbestos causes mesothelioma in October 1964. Ten weeks after the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution sent 3.4 million more servicemembers toward the most heavily asbestos-insulated ships in the fleet. Key Takeaways The 30 percent problem. Veterans are four times overrepresented in mesothelioma diagnoses because naval service meant continuous exposure — not intermittent. A sailor couldn’t go home at night. He slept, ate, and worked within feet of asbestos-insulated boilers and pipes, twenty-four hours a day, for years. The Navy used over 300 different asbestos-containing products on a single ship. Navy veterans are 6.47 times more likely to die from mesothelioma than the general population. About 1,000 are diagnosed every year.The latency math. Average latency for shipyard workers: 49.4 years. Range: 14 to 72 years documented. Only 4 percent of cases appear within 20 years. A third don’t appear until after 40 years. A man exposed at Brooklyn Navy Yard in 1943 at age 22 would not typically receive his diagnosis until the early 1990s — when the executives who made the decisions he worked under were retired or dead, and no one could connect a cough to a pipe he insulated half a century before. That is not a coincidence. That was the calculation.Three survivors. Michelle was four years old when she was exposed — just hugging her father when he came home from work, his clothes covered in dust. Diagnosed at ten with peritoneal mesothelioma. Given three to six months. She lived thirty-five years. She adopted four children. She counseled over two hundred families facing the same diagnosis. She never charged a penny. Lannie was a conservation officer in Virginia, exposed through brake linings and gaskets. Diagnosed at sixty-two, given eighteen months. Seventeen years later, he is still here. Icom was a Navy boilerman on USS Kearsarge and USS John A. Bole for ten years — the most dangerous job on any ship. Diagnosed in 2016, he became the first VA patient to receive pleurectomy with decortication surgery. Eight years later: “It’s a beautiful day.”The Sumner Simpson Papers, 1977. Litigation in South Carolina forced internal Johns-Manville documents into the open. A 1930 memo titled “Pulmonary Asbestosis.” A 1931 letter from Johns-Manville’s attorney detailing the deliberate four-year delay of a government study. And Sumner Simpson’s 1935 letter: “The less said about asbestos, the better off we are.” Within months, a California congressman featured them in congressional hearings. The Washington Post reported companies had “hid evidence” for more than thirty years. Johns-Manville filed for bankruptcy in August 1982 under 16,000 lawsuits and was removed from the Dow Jones Industrial Average.The Manville Trust. Established in 1988 with $2.5 billion. Has since paid out over $5 billion to victims and families. It became the template for the more than 60 asbestos trusts now holding an estimated $30 billion in total assets.Selikoff’s timing. August 7, 1964: Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. 88–2 in the Senate. 414–0 in the House. The Vietnam escalation begins. October 19, 1964 — ten weeks later — Selikoff presents at the New York Academy of Sciences: definitive proof that asbestos causes mesothelioma and lung cancer, even at low exposures, even brief exposures. Even wives who only washed their husbands’ work clothes. Peak U.S. asbestos consumption: 803,000 tons in 1973. Three and a half million Vietnam-era servicemembers deployed. Average latency: 49 years. Peak deployment: 1968. 1968 plus 49 years.The Vietnam window is now. The peak mortality window for Vietnam-era veterans is today. That’s Arc 7. Featured at Danziger & De Llano Dave Foster, Executive Director of Patient Advocacy at Danziger & De Llano. Nearly two decades helping mesothelioma families navigate diagnosis, treatment, and legal options. He lost his own father to asbestos exposure. He edited Beating the Odds: Stories of Unexpected Mesothelioma Survival — the book that tells the stories of Michelle, Lannie, and Icom. If you or someone you love is facing a mesothelioma diagnosis, contact Dave directly at dandell.com. He’ll send you a copy free. Paul Danziger and Rod De Llano, founding partners. Over 30 years of mesothelioma litigation experience. The firm has recovered nearly $2 billion for families affected by asbestos. Trust funds, VA benefits, and lawsuit settlements may all be available — free consultation at dandell.com. Resources Veterans mesothelioma help: dandell.com/veterans-mesothelioma/Free consultation: dandell.comEpisode notes and sources: mesotheliomalawyersnearme.com/podcast/episode-29-the-shipyard-generation/Full transcript: wikimesothelioma.com/Asbestos_Podcast_EP29_TranscriptPrevious episode: EP28 — Wartime Production, Peacetime DeathsAsbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making — 52 episodes tracing asbestos from ancient pottery to the 2024 EPA ban. Produced by Danziger & De Llano. Next: Episode 30 — Selikoff’s Warning. Arc 7 begins. The moment the science became undeniable — and the generation that paid for it. Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making is sponsored by Danziger & De Llano Mesothelioma Law Firm, a nationwide practice with over 30 years of experience and nearly $2 billion recovered for asbestos victims. If you or someone you love has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, the exposure happened somewhere—and Paul Danziger and Rod De Llano know how to trace it back. For a free consultation, visit https://dandell.com. Resources: → Mesothelioma legal rights: https://dandell.com/mesothelioma/  → Asbestos exposure sources: https://dandell.com/asbestos-exposure/  → Asbestos trust funds ($30B+ available): https://dandell.com/asbestos-trust-funds/  → Free case evaluation: https://dandell.com/contact/  Sister Podcast - MESO: The Mesothelioma Podcast: http://mesotheliomapodcast.com/

    21 min
  2. Episode 28 — Wartime Production, Peacetime Deaths

    Jun 8

    Episode 28 — Wartime Production, Peacetime Deaths

    Episode 28 — Wartime Production, Peacetime Deaths When World War II ended, asbestos production should have declined. Instead, U.S. consumption increased 107% — from 343,000 tons in 1945 to 709,000 tons by 1955. The post-war housing boom put asbestos into 40 million American homes: floor tiles with 40–70% asbestos backing, joint compound at 3–6%, popcorn ceilings, roofing, siding. Meanwhile, the industry voted 6 to 2 against studying whether their product caused cancer because it would “stir up a hornet’s nest.” Episode 28 follows the paper trail from the 1947 Asbestos Textile Institute vote through the Braun–Truan report fraud to the suppression of Richard Doll’s groundbreaking 1955 British study — revealing how corporations expanded their market into suburban America while burying evidence that would take 30 years to surface in courtrooms. Key Takeaways The 1947 ATI vote. March 1947. The Asbestos Textile Institute voted 6–2 against commissioning an epidemiological study on lung cancer. The written reason: it would “stir up a hornet’s nest and put the whole industry under suspicion.” This was twelve years after Sumner Simpson’s 1935 letter: “the less said about asbestos, the better off we are.” Same companies. Same strategy.The Braun–Truan fraud. 1957: The Quebec Asbestos Mining Association funds a study through the Industrial Hygiene Foundation. The private report to the Mining Association finds a miner with asbestosis has “a greater likelihood of developing cancer of the lung.” The published version? That finding is deleted. Dr. Rutherford Johnstone’s 1960 textbook cites Braun–Truan as evidence asbestosis does not predispose to lung cancer. A textbook teaching the fraudulent version.Levittown’s 17,447 homes. Built 1947–1951. Every structure came with asbestos siding, asbestos roofing, nine-by-nine floor tiles (99% likely to contain asbestos by the “Rule of Nines”), and joint compound with 3–6% asbestos content. The marketing called it “fireproof.” They just didn’t mention it would kill you thirty years later.The shipyards that never closed. Brooklyn Navy Yard operated until June 30, 1966 — 9,500 workers at closure, 21 years after the war. Charleston Naval Shipyard: April 1, 1996 — 51 years after V-J Day. Workers exposed in the 1980s won’t develop mesothelioma until 2010, 2020, 2030. The clock is still ticking.Why unions stayed silent. 1947’s Taft–Hartley Act outlawed closed shops, banned solidarity strikes, required union officers to sign anti-communist affidavits. The CIO expelled eleven unions — roughly one million members — between 1949 and 1950. The left-led unions that had been most militant on workplace conditions were gone. The “postwar accord” ceded workplace safety to management in exchange for wages and benefits.The perfect crime math. Latency period for mesothelioma: 20 to 60 years. Median: 32 to 38 years. A worker exposed at Brooklyn in 1943 wouldn’t develop symptoms until 1973. The executives who suppressed the 1947 study? Retired. Or dead. Documents buried in corporate archives. No connection visible between the cough and the pipe insulated thirty years earlier.3,000 applications. By 1958, asbestos appeared in approximately 3,000 products. Among them: Kent cigarette filters (30% crocidolite asbestos, 1952–1956, marketed as “greatest health protection in history”) and the fake snow falling on Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz — chrysotile asbestos. Featured at Danziger & De Llano Anna Jackson, Director of Patient Support at Danziger & De Llano. Nearly fifteen years helping mesothelioma families navigate diagnosis and next steps. She lost her own husband to cancer. She knows what this conversation costs. Paul Danziger, founding partner. Over 30 years of mesothelioma litigation experience. The firm has recovered nearly $2 billion for families affected by asbestos. If you or someone you love is facing a mesothelioma diagnosis, trust funds, VA benefits, and lawsuit settlements may all be available. Resources Mesothelioma help: dandell.comEpisode notes and sources: mesotheliomalawyersnearme.com/podcast/episode-28-wartime-production-peacetime-deaths/Full transcript: wikimesothelioma.com/Asbestos_Podcast_EP28_TranscriptPrevious episode: EP27 — The Women of the ShipyardsAsbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making — 52 episodes tracing asbestos from ancient pottery to the 2024 EPA ban. Produced by Danziger & De Llano. Next: Episode 29 — The Shipyard Generation. December 1960. J.C. Wagner publishes in the British Journal of Industrial Medicine. Mesothelioma. A cancer no one knew existed. They knew it existed. Now everyone else would too. Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making is sponsored by Danziger & De Llano Mesothelioma Law Firm, a nationwide practice with over 30 years of experience and nearly $2 billion recovered for asbestos victims. If you or someone you love has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, the exposure happened somewhere—and Paul Danziger and Rod De Llano know how to trace it back. For a free consultation, visit https://dandell.com. Resources: → Mesothelioma legal rights: https://dandell.com/mesothelioma/  → Asbestos exposure sources: https://dandell.com/asbestos-exposure/  → Asbestos trust funds ($30B+ available): https://dandell.com/asbestos-trust-funds/  → Free case evaluation: https://dandell.com/contact/  Sister Podcast - MESO: The Mesothelioma Podcast: http://mesotheliomapodcast.com/

    17 min
  3. Episode 27: The Women Of The Shipyards

    Jun 1

    Episode 27: The Women Of The Shipyards

    Episode 27 — The Women of the Shipyards By May 1943, 45,174 women worked in U.S. Navy yards alone. They held welding torches. They cut asbestos cloth with their hands. They sewed insulation blankets. They filled sewn forms with loose asbestos fiber. The Women’s Bureau documented 189 different occupations — including, in official government classifications, “asbestos filler and sewer” and “asbestos layer-out and cutter.” Nobody told them what asbestos was. When the war ended, one in four women factory workers was fired in the first three months. By January 1946, four million women had left the industrial workforce. Portland Kaiser collapsed from 97,000 workers to 2,000. The records went with them — because the same word that justified their lower pay also obscured their exposure history. They weren’t welders. They weren’t asbestos layers. They were helpers. And decades later, when they or their children got sick and their families went looking for documentation of what they’d breathed — the records said helper. Key Takeaways 189 occupations documented. Among them: “asbestos filler and sewer,” “asbestos layer-out and cutter.” Official government classifications for women working in spaces white with asbestos fiber. No warnings. Instructions, not information.The “helper” classification did two things. It justified paying women less than half the rate of the men beside them. It also meant they weren’t recorded in exposure categories that would matter 40 years later on a trust fund claim form.Lucille Kolkin, Brooklyn Navy Yard tack welder, 1942. She wrote home to her husband Al every week. Her letters are at the Center for Brooklyn History. Her oral history, recorded in 1989, is in the same collection as 48 other women who built the ships. Jennifer Egan read them to research Manhattan Beach. “Nobody ever asked for a hammer,” Kolkin wrote. “They asked for a f****n’ hammer.”Dr. Muriel Newhouse, 1965. Colonel in the British Army. Landed in Normandy after D-Day. Her colleagues called her a “fearsome ferret.” Her 1965 study found 9 of 83 mesothelioma patients had household-only asbestos exposure — 7 wives, 2 sisters. The most common history: washing a worker’s dungarees. A meta-analysis across studies: 5.02x increased mesothelioma risk from household contact.The industry knew in 1940. Metropolitan Life Insurance internal report: “asbestos is the type of toxic substance that requires changing clothes when leaving an area of exposure.” OSHA’s separate-laundry mandate: 1972. Thirty-two years.The Jeanette Franklin case. Born during the war. Both parents worked at Western Pipe and Steel Shipyard. She never set foot in the yard. Diagnosed with peritoneal mesothelioma in 1996. The jury awarded $6.5 million. The appellate court reversed on a 1948 purchase agreement’s fine print. The California Supreme Court declined review. Jeanette Franklin received nothing.Female latency is 29% longer. Median 43.7 years versus 33.8 for men. Cases from 1940s shipyard exposure are still emerging today. Featured at Danziger & De Llano Anna Jackson, Director of Patient Support at Danziger & De Llano. Nearly fifteen years of experience helping mesothelioma families navigate what comes after the diagnosis. She lost her own husband to cancer. She knows what this conversation costs. Michelle was diagnosed with mesothelioma at age ten — secondary exposure through her father’s work clothes. Given three to six months. She survived thirty-five years. During those years, she counseled over two hundred newly diagnosed families. Her story is in Beating the Odds: Surviving Mesothelioma, compiled by Dave Foster, available free from Danziger & De Llano. Resources Mesothelioma help: dandell.comEpisode notes and sources: mesotheliomalawyersnearme.com/podcast/episode-27-women-of-the-shipyards/Full transcript: wikimesothelioma.com/Asbestos_Podcast_EP27_TranscriptPrevious episode: EP26 — The Shipyards Never SleepNext: Episode 28 — Wartime Production, Peacetime Deaths. The men came home. Production didn’t stop. Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making is sponsored by Danziger & De Llano Mesothelioma Law Firm, a nationwide practice with over 30 years of experience and nearly $2 billion recovered for asbestos victims. If you or someone you love has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, the exposure happened somewhere—and Paul Danziger and Rod De Llano know how to trace it back. For a free consultation, visit https://dandell.com. Resources: → Mesothelioma legal rights: https://dandell.com/mesothelioma/  → Asbestos exposure sources: https://dandell.com/asbestos-exposure/  → Asbestos trust funds ($30B+ available): https://dandell.com/asbestos-trust-funds/  → Free case evaluation: https://dandell.com/contact/  Sister Podcast - MESO: The Mesothelioma Podcast: http://mesotheliomapodcast.com/

    19 min
  4. Episode 26 — The Shipyards Never Sleep

    May 25

    Episode 26 — The Shipyards Never Sleep

    S1E26 — The Shipyards Never SleepThe Asbestos Podcast · Season 1 · Arc 6: The War Effort, 1942–1945 (consequences to present) Episode 26 — The Shipyards Never Sleep “The first time I walked out on the ways, I was walking into a kind of nightmare of sounds, noise, and smells.” Howard Zinn was nineteen years old when he walked through the gates of Brooklyn Navy Yard in December 1941. He’d later become one of America’s most influential historians. But first, he’d spend years crawling into four-by-four-by-four-foot compartments so full of asbestos dust that workers couldn’t see across them. By December 1943, 1.7 million shipyard workers labored around the clock — three shifts, twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. Each Iowa-class battleship contained 465 long tons of asbestos insulation. Each destroyer: 85,000 to 90,000 pounds. Over 5,500 ships built between 1939 and 1945. One Navy memo from 1944 called the dust concentrations “a dangerous hazard to personnel.” It never reached the workers on the floor. They thought the dust dissolved when they breathed it in — like sugar in water. Key Takeaways 465 long tons of asbestos insulation per Iowa-class battleship. Eighty-five thousand to ninety thousand pounds per destroyer. Over 5,500 vessels built 1939–1945 — Liberty ships, Victory ships, destroyers, battleships — each one packed with asbestos and built by workers who had no idea what they were breathing.Three shifts. Twenty-four hours. Seven days a week. At Brooklyn Navy Yard, 70,000 workers per day at peak production. Forty percent were logging more than 48 hours a week by 1942. The time-weighted averages industrial hygienists later used to define “safe” exposure were meaningless for workers logging 60–70-hour weeks in asbestos dust.Every trade was exposed. Pipe coverers handled felt insulation that was 85–95% asbestos by content. Welders wore asbestos gloves, aprons, leggings, and blankets. Boilermakers worked in compartments where insulators had just been. Electricians handled asbestos wire insulation. Carpenters cut Transite board (asbestos-cement). Court records: “Asbestos was essentially everywhere.”The 1944 Navy Bureau of Medicine letter. Dust counts during amosite felt insulation application were “well above the accepted maximum of eight million particles of dust per cubic foot.” Conclusion: “a dangerous hazard to personnel.” Written in 1944. Workers on the shipyard floor: never informed.Clarence Borel’s testimony. Industrial insulation worker, 33 years (1936–1969). Under oath: “I blowed this dust out of my nostrils by handfuls at the end of the day.” He thought it was “bothersome.” He “never realized it could cause any serious or terminal illness.” He believed the dust “dissolves as it hits your lungs.” He learned the truth in January 1969. He died June 3, 1970 — four months later. His case became Borel v. Fibreboard, the landmark asbestos liability decision.The information gap. 1930: British science establishes asbestos causes asbestosis. 1938: U.S. Public Health Service sets a 5-million-particle safe limit. 1941: Stephenson warns Admiral McIntire that “we are not protecting the men as we should.” 1944: Navy documents “dangerous hazard to personnel.” Workers’ knowledge throughout: the dust dissolves.30% of all mesothelioma diagnoses are veterans. Nearly 1,000 shipyard and Navy cases annually. The 20–50-year latency clock meant executives who signed the 1944 memos were retired before workers started dying. Cases from 1940s wartime exposure are still being diagnosed today. Featured at Danziger & De Llano Larry Gates, Senior Client Advocate & Military Veteran Specialist at Danziger & De Llano. His father died of mesothelioma after years at the Shell refinery in Pasadena, Texas. Larry is seventy-two and currently fighting his own battle with cancer. When he talks to veteran families, he’s not reading from a script. Resources Mesothelioma help: dandell.comVeterans and mesothelioma: dandell.com/mesothelioma/veterans/Episode notes and sources: mesotheliomalawyersnearme.com/podcast/episode-26-the-shipyards-never-sleep/Full transcript: wikimesothelioma.com/Asbestos_Podcast_EP26_TranscriptPrevious episode: EP25 — The Navy Comes CallingAsbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making — 52 episodes tracing asbestos from ancient pottery to the 2024 EPA ban. Produced by Danziger & De Llano. Next: Episode 27 — The Women of the Shipyards. By 1943, women made up 13% of shipyard production workers. They did the same jobs. They breathed the same dust. And when they went home, the dust came with them. Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making is sponsored by Danziger & De Llano Mesothelioma Law Firm, a nationwide practice with over 30 years of experience and nearly $2 billion recovered for asbestos victims. If you or someone you love has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, the exposure happened somewhere—and Paul Danziger and Rod De Llano know how to trace it back. For a free consultation, visit https://dandell.com. Resources: → Mesothelioma legal rights: https://dandell.com/mesothelioma/  → Asbestos exposure sources: https://dandell.com/asbestos-exposure/  → Asbestos trust funds ($30B+ available): https://dandell.com/asbestos-trust-funds/  → Free case evaluation: https://dandell.com/contact/  Sister Podcast - MESO: The Mesothelioma Podcast: http://mesotheliomapodcast.com/

    16 min
  5. Episode 25: The Navy Comes Calling

    May 18

    Episode 25: The Navy Comes Calling

    Episode 25: The Navy Comes Calling At the 1939 World's Fair, Johns-Manville's Asbestos Man posed for photographs while the company's chief counsel managed the Saranac coverup. Two months later, Congress passed the Strategic Materials Act — one hundred million dollars to stockpile asbestos for a war not yet entered. The Congressional Record contains zero worker safety provisions. Key Takeaways June 7, 1939 — Strategic Materials Act stockpiles asbestos; zero safety language in the entire floor record despite documented hazardsBrooklyn Navy Yard: 9,195 workers (Oct 1939) → 27,258 (Oct 1941). National shipyards: 168,000 (June 1940) → 1.7 million (Dec 1943). ~300 asbestos products per vessel.Fleischer study (1946): dust measured at 142 million particles/cubic foot — 28× the 5-million safe limit. Conclusion: “relatively safe occupation.” Published by permission of the U.S. Navy.Commander Stephenson to Surgeon General McIntire, 1941: “I am certain we are not protecting the men as we should.” No written response in the record.McIntire was FDR's personal physician, selected for his ability to “keep a close mouth.” The Navy inspected itself. A federal court later called this “official connivance at a coverup.”FAQ Where does the “Navy knew in 1922” claim come from? It doesn't hold up. The Naval Medical Bulletins are digitized. No article on asbestos exists. A 2011 Inhalation Toxicology study found no U.S. government documents on asbestos hazards before 1929. The first verified Navy document is the 1939 Jenkins memo recommending respirators. How did Fleischer conclude the work was safe at 28× the dust limit? 95% of the 1,074 workers had fewer than 10 years' exposure. Asbestosis takes 10–25 years to appear. The Fifth Circuit in Borel v. Fibreboard called the “safe occupation” conclusion “misleading.” Expert Source Larry Gates — Senior Client Advocate & Military Veteran Specialist, Danziger & De Llano. His father died of mesothelioma after years at a Shell refinery in Pasadena, Texas. dandell.com/about/larry-gates/ Resources Veterans and mesothelioma: dandell.com/mesothelioma/veterans/Trust fund claims: dandell.com/mesothelioma/mesothelioma-asbestos-trust-fund-payouts/Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making — 52 episodes from ancient pottery to the 2024 EPA ban. Produced by Danziger & De Llano. Next: Episode 26 — “The Dust They Couldn't See Through.” Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making is sponsored by Danziger & De Llano Mesothelioma Law Firm, a nationwide practice with over 30 years of experience and nearly $2 billion recovered for asbestos victims. If you or someone you love has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, the exposure happened somewhere—and Paul Danziger and Rod De Llano know how to trace it back. For a free consultation, visit https://dandell.com. Resources: → Mesothelioma legal rights: https://dandell.com/mesothelioma/  → Asbestos exposure sources: https://dandell.com/asbestos-exposure/  → Asbestos trust funds ($30B+ available): https://dandell.com/asbestos-trust-funds/  → Free case evaluation: https://dandell.com/contact/  Sister Podcast - MESO: The Mesothelioma Podcast: http://mesotheliomapodcast.com/

    18 min
  6. Special Episode: The Magic Mineral At War

    May 11 ·  Bonus

    Special Episode: The Magic Mineral At War

    Asbestos genuinely helped the Allies win World War II. The U.S. government classified it as a strategic material in 1939. Over 300 asbestos-containing products were mandated for every Navy vessel. 1.7 million workers entered the shipyards. The proximity fuze — one of three classified secrets of the war — contained asbestos components built by women working on production lines they weren't told the purpose of. The production miracle was real. The workers were patriots. They were right to believe in what they were doing. And while they worked, the executives running the asbestos companies were sitting on years of suppressed evidence that their product was killing the people who made it. Key Takeaways The U.S. government listed asbestos as a strategic defense material in 1939, alongside rubber, tin, and chromium. Over 300 asbestos-containing products were mandated for U.S. Navy vessels.American shipyard employment grew from 168,000 workers in June 1940 to 1.7 million by December 1943 — the largest industrial workforce ever assembled in the United States.The proximity fuze — classified at the same level as the atomic bomb — contained four vacuum tubes per shell. More than 22 million fuzes were built; 88–90 million tubes manufactured for fuze production alone. It reduced rounds-per-kill from ~1,000 to ~200 against kamikazes, and raised V-1 intercept rates from 17% to 74%.In October 1935, Sumner Simpson (Raybestos-Manhattan) wrote to the Johns-Manville attorney: "I think the less said about asbestos, the better off we are." This was eight years before the E-Award ceremony at Keasbey & Mattison, where workers received government pins for their wartime service.The 1943 Saranac Laboratory mouse study — commissioned by asbestos companies — documented an 81.8% tumor rate. The results were suppressed. No warning labels appeared until 1964. Federal requirements came in 1972.Today, 30% of mesothelioma cases are veterans. Latency from first exposure runs 20–50 years. The betrayal hit decades after the service ended.Resources Danziger & De Llano — free mesothelioma consultations, 7 days a week: dandell.comAsbestos exposure history: dandell.com/asbestos-exposure/Mesothelioma compensation: dandell.com/mesothelioma-compensation/Contact: dandell.com/contact-us/WikiMesothelioma: wikimesothelioma.comNext episode: Episode 25 — The Navy Comes Calling. Arc 6 begins. Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making is sponsored by Danziger & De Llano Mesothelioma Law Firm, a nationwide practice with over 30 years of experience and nearly $2 billion recovered for asbestos victims. If you or someone you love has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, the exposure happened somewhere—and Paul Danziger and Rod De Llano know how to trace it back. For a free consultation, visit https://dandell.com. Resources: → Mesothelioma legal rights: https://dandell.com/mesothelioma/  → Asbestos exposure sources: https://dandell.com/asbestos-exposure/  → Asbestos trust funds ($30B+ available): https://dandell.com/asbestos-trust-funds/  → Free case evaluation: https://dandell.com/contact/  Sister Podcast - MESO: The Mesothelioma Podcast: http://mesotheliomapodcast.com/

    25 min
  7. Episode 24: The Paper Trail

    May 4

    Episode 24: The Paper Trail

    In a locked safe at Raybestos-Manhattan Corporation headquarters in Stratford, Connecticut, approximately 6,000 documents sat undisturbed for forty-four years. They were filed alphabetically under a single label: DUST.  Episodes 20 through 23 documented what the asbestos industry did. Episode 24 — the Arc Five finale — proves it. Not through reconstruction or inference. Through the actual letters, internal memos, scientific studies, and federal court testimony that these companies wrote, signed, carbon-copied, and filed — believing no one outside the boardroom would ever read them. They used standard 1930s business practices. That’s what preserved the evidence of their own conspiracy. Key Takeaways 1933 — The first asbestos lawsuit is settled and silenced. Eleven workers sue Johns-Manville Corporation in New Jersey for failing to provide ventilation and safety equipment. Settlement: $30,000 total — $2,700 per worker. Conditions: their attorney agrees never to file another asbestos case, and the terms stay confidential. Internal Johns-Manville meeting minutes the same year: “Our past policy of keeping this matter confidential is to be pursued.” 11 human lung cancer cases from Quebec asbestos miners — including 2 mesotheliomas. Gardner dies in 1946 before publishing. At a January 1947 industry meeting, companies agree that “the reference to cancer and tumors should be deleted.” Brown documents his own instructions: “All references to cancers and tumors deleted.”1949 — The Smith memo: don’t tell the workers. Dr. Kenneth Smith, a Johns-Manville physician, recommends that workers with early asbestosis visible on chest X-rays “should not be told of his condition so that he can live and work in peace, and the company can benefit by his many years of experience.” April 25, 1984 — The federal court testimony. Johns-Manville Corporation v. The United States of America. Former Unarco employee Charles Roemer testifies that at a c. 1942–1943 meeting, he asked Vandiver Brown whether the company would really let sick workers keep working until they died. Brown’s response: “Yes. We save a lot of money that way.”Resources Mesothelioma help: dandell.comEpisode notes and sources: mesotheliomalawyersnearme.com/podcast/episode-24-the-paper-trail/Previous episode: EP23 — The Human ExperimentsAsbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making is sponsored by Danziger & De Llano Mesothelioma Law Firm, a nationwide practice with over 30 years of experience and nearly $2 billion recovered for asbestos victims. If you or someone you love has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, the exposure happened somewhere—and Paul Danziger and Rod De Llano know how to trace it back. For a free consultation, visit https://dandell.com. Resources: → Mesothelioma legal rights: https://dandell.com/mesothelioma/  → Asbestos exposure sources: https://dandell.com/asbestos-exposure/  → Asbestos trust funds ($30B+ available): https://dandell.com/asbestos-trust-funds/  → Free case evaluation: https://dandell.com/contact/  Sister Podcast - MESO: The Mesothelioma Podcast: http://mesotheliomapodcast.com/

    26 min
  8. Episode 23 — The Human Experiments

    Apr 27

    Episode 23 — The Human Experiments

    Episode 23 — The Human Experiments Gardner’s 81.8% wasn’t an anomaly. It was one data point in a thirty-year pattern. By 1960, at least six independent lines of animal evidence had documented that asbestos causes cancer — studies conducted in New York, Delaware, Britain, and South Africa. Every one of them was suppressed, ignored, or buried by the same industry. This is the episode where we count them all. In 1947, Vandiver Brown read a summary of Gardner’s findings and wrote to his colleague: “This looks like dynamite.” Not “we need to investigate.” Not “we need more data.” He knew. Eighteen months later, nine companies voted unanimously to delete every cancer reference from the published record. Meanwhile, 5,000 Quebec miners walked off the job — fighting for better wages and basic safety protections — not knowing that proof of asbestos’s lethality had been sitting in a locked filing cabinet for six years. Wilhelm Hueper listed asbestos as an established carcinogen in 1942 — one year before Gardner’s mouse tumors. The industry claimed they “didn’t know” for three more decades.Arthur Vorwald’s 1951 follow-up used cancer-resistant mice and still found a neoplasia risk ratio of 5.7. He terminated the study before tumors could fully develop.J.C. Wagner’s 1974 rat study proved that one day of asbestos exposure is sufficient to cause fatal mesothelioma. There is no safe threshold.“The mice knew before the miners.”Featured Experts Paul Danziger, founding partner at Danziger & De Llano. In 1998, Paul and his law partner took on hospital purchasing cartels. His partner died mid-case. Twelve years later, Paul wrote the screenplay that became Puncture — starring Chris Evans — which premiered at Tribeca Film Festival. A film about a partner who died fighting for safer medical devices. Rod De Llano spent years at Jones Day — one of the largest law firms in the world — defending corporations in product liability cases. He walked away to represent people who needed it. Over a billion dollars recovered later, he calls it the best decision of his career. Larry Gates, Senior Client Advocate at Danziger & De Llano. His father Dan worked the Shell refinery in Pasadena, Texas for decades. In 1999, Dan was diagnosed with mesothelioma. Dead six months later. Resources Mesothelioma help: dandell.comEpisode notes and sources: mesotheliomalawyersnearme.com/podcast/episode-23-the-human-experiments/Previous episode: EP22 — The Saranac Coverup Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making is sponsored by Danziger & De Llano Mesothelioma Law Firm, a nationwide practice with over 30 years of experience and nearly $2 billion recovered for asbestos victims. If you or someone you love has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, the exposure happened somewhere—and Paul Danziger and Rod De Llano know how to trace it back. For a free consultation, visit https://dandell.com. Resources: → Mesothelioma legal rights: https://dandell.com/mesothelioma/  → Asbestos exposure sources: https://dandell.com/asbestos-exposure/  → Asbestos trust funds ($30B+ available): https://dandell.com/asbestos-trust-funds/  → Free case evaluation: https://dandell.com/contact/  Sister Podcast - MESO: The Mesothelioma Podcast: http://mesotheliomapodcast.com/

    28 min
See All (31)

Trailer

5
out of 5
6 Ratings

About

They knew. They always knew. Nearly 2,000 years ago, Roman historian Pliny the Elder documented asbestos workers dying from "sickness of the lungs"—watching slaves fashion crude respirators from animal bladders while weaving what he called "funeral dress for kings." The people closest to the dust understood the danger. The people farthest away admired the spectacle, collected the profits, and buried the evidence. That pattern never changed. Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making traces humanity's 4,500-year relationship with the mineral the ancient Greeks named "asbestos"—meaning indestructible. From Stone Age Finnish pottery (2500 BCE) to the $70+ billion in legal damages paid by modern corporations, we uncover how a material praised for safety became a source of sickness, litigation, and grief. Each episode explores: Ancient origins: The salamander myth that persisted for 2,000 years, the Roman tablecloths that cleaned themselves in fire, the sacred flames kept burning with asbestos wicks The industrial cover-up: Internal documents proving companies knew asbestos caused cancer since the 1930s—and suppressed the evidence for 40 years Modern consequences: Why mesothelioma claims 3,000 American lives annually, and why $30+ billion sits in asbestos trust funds waiting for victims who never file The science of denial: How manufactured doubt delayed regulation for decades, using the same tactics as the tobacco industry—sometimes with the same scientists Whether you're a history enthusiast, legal professional, medical researcher, or someone seeking answers after asbestos exposure, this podcast reveals the uncomfortable truth: the longest-running industrial cover-up in human history isn't ancient history. It's still happening. The History of Asbestos Podcast is sponsored by Danziger & De Llano, a nationwide mesothelioma law firm with over 30 years of experience and nearly $2 billion recovered for asbestos victims.  If you or a loved one has mesothelioma, visit Dandell.com for a free consultation.

Information