Law Labs

Billie Tarascio
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Welcome to Law Labs — the podcast where law firm life gets a glow-up. Hosted by entrepreneur, attorney,  Modern Law founder, and optimistic disrupter, Billie Tarascio, this show is your backstage pass to the business of law. We’re not talking billable hours and black-letter law — we’re talking AI-powered operations, next-gen leadership, smart growth, and real strategy. Billie digs into the systems, stories, and shifts shaping modern legal practice—alongside law firm owners, legal technologists, and bold thinkers who are rewriting the rules. Expect real talk about: Scaling law firms without burning outLeading with clarity, culture, and dataUsing AI and automation without losing the human touchBuilding sustainable businesses that serve your life—not just your clientsValuation, VC, and the art of getting acquired (or acquiring others) This is your lab for testing what’s possible—then building it. If you're ready to lead smarter, scale faster, and think bigger—welcome to the future of law. Let’s jump in.

  1. Ditch the Billable Hour: How to Price Value, Not Time with Shaun Jardine

    Jun 25

    Ditch the Billable Hour: How to Price Value, Not Time with Shaun Jardine

    Value-based pricing gives law firms a way out of the billable hour and into pricing that reflects outcomes, not time. Shaun Jardine breaks down how solo attorneys and small firm owners can offer clients gold, silver, and bronze service levels, run a successful pricing pilot, and grow profitability without padding timesheets. Shaun Jardine is the founder of Big Yellow Penguin and former CEO of a Top 250 UK law firm, with over 35 years in the legal profession. He wrote Ditch the Billable Hour, a 400-page guide to value-based pricing, and the follow-up Ditch & Switch, which lays out 50 real-world pricing examples across private client and commercial work. He created the 8-P Point Plan, a framework that helps firms move from time-based billing to value-based pricing. What you'll learn: - Price outcomes and value instead of hours and inputs - Offer clients three service levels at three price points - Run a value-based pricing pilot one lawyer at a time - Build a pioneer group of willing lawyers, not skeptics - Give fixed prices in litigation using the concentric circles method - Chunk litigation work into yes work, likely work, and next stages - Ask clients what service level they expect before you price - Turn away unprofitable, difficult clients to free up capacity - Document a pricing policy every new hire learns on day one - Run after-action reviews when a fixed price misses the mark - Understand why clients rank lower price 14th, not 1st - Apply Kotter change management to win over resistant lawyers Chapters: 00:00 Welcome and Shaun's path to value-based pricing 03:53 How to run a pricing pilot and offer three service levels 08:22 Handling case variability and turning away bad work 13:00 Fixed pricing in litigation and creative fee models 21:44 The 8-P Point Plan and getting lawyers to buy in 28:00 What the most profitable firms do differently Connect with Shaun Jardine: Email: shaun@bigyellowpenguin.co.uk Website: bigyellowpenguin.co.uk LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/shaunjardine Books: Ditch the Billable Hour and Ditch & Switch (available on Amazon)

    32 min
  2. Private Equity Is Coming for Law Firms: What Every Owner Needs to Know

    Jun 11

    Private Equity Is Coming for Law Firms: What Every Owner Needs to Know

    Private equity and venture capital are moving into the legal industry fast, and law firm owners face real decisions about MSOs, ABS structures, and what it means to take outside capital. This Law Labs roundtable breaks down how private equity actually works when it buys a law firm, why the headline price often hides debt and leverage, and what separates a good partner from a deal that destroys value. Host Billie Tarascio sits down with three attorneys who each live this issue from a different angle. Fred Litwiniuk is a Canadian law firm owner who took private equity to grow his firm and now partners with other firm owners through an MSO and ABS model. Taylor Bell works in ABS and MSO setup and sits on Arizona's ABS regulatory board, with a focus on legal ethics where these structures overlap. TJ Henry runs a vendor-backed MSO that operates as the back office for law firms and previously ran one of the first PE-backed law firms in recent history. What you will learn in this episode: Understand the real difference between an MSO and an ABS, and when a firm needs neitherLearn why Arizona's relaxed fee-sharing rules change the calculus for firm ownersSee how private equity uses debt and leverage to fund most of a purchase priceFind out why a deal that looks like a 6x multiple to you can look like a 4x to the buyerDiscover what earnouts and rolled equity actually mean for your payoutGrasp why your firm is worth more to buyers the less it depends on you personallyHear why most PE firms calling on lawyers have never operated a law firmLearn the multiple ranges firms are actually seeing today, and which deals tend to failUnderstand why clean financials before the LOI stage protect your valuationExplore lessons from non-lawyer ownership in Australia and the UKFind out why a captive MSO can create value even without selling to outside capitalGet a framework for vetting a PE partner before you ever signMeet the Guests: Fred Litwiniuk Chief Growth Officer, Litco Law Fred is a Civil Litigation attorney and member of the Law Society of Alberta who, alongside his brother Todd, grew Litco Law into a model for contemporary legal operations. With a dual MBA from Cornell and Queen's, he speaks from experience on taking private capital into his own firm. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fredric-litwiniuk/ Taylor Bell Founding Partner, Arizona ABS Law Taylor is a compliance attorney and appointed member of the Arizona Supreme Court's ABS Committee. He guides firms, legal tech companies, and investors through ABS formation, governance, and regulatory strategy, with inside insight into the Committee's standards. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylor-bell/  TJ Henry Jr. Co-Founder & Managing Partner, Federate Legal TJ is a legal operations executive who runs a vendor-backed MSO serving as the back office for law firms. He previously ran one of the first PE-backed law firms in recent history and knows firsthand what can go wrong inside these deals.  LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/federatelegal

    1h 12m
  3. Is ChatGPT actually draining Arizona dry?

    Jun 4

    Is ChatGPT actually draining Arizona dry?

    Arizona water bills have doubled or tripled in the last year, and a lot of people are pointing fingers at AI and data centers. The viral claim that every ChatGPT prompt uses a full bottle of water has parents, teenagers, and city council members convinced that artificial intelligence is draining the desert dry. But what if the math is completely wrong? Andy Masley is a former high school physics teacher turned independent researcher who became one of the most cited voices in the national data center conversation after his writing went viral and earned him a private grant from a $4 billion philanthropic organization. He is also the person who caught what may be the single largest factual error ever published in a major bestselling book, a mistake the New York Times covered and the author eventually corrected. What you will learn in this episode: Why the "bottle of water per AI prompt" claim is off by a factor of roughly 500, based on more recent dataHow a missing unit of measurement made a Chilean data center look 1,000 times more water-intensive than it actually wasWhat the median ChatGPT prompt actually costs in energy (around 3 watt hours) and how that stacks up against daily lifeWhy optimizing AI chip efficiency means each individual prompt is getting cheaper over time, not more expensiveHow Arizona data centers compare to golf courses in water consumption, and which one wins on tax revenue per gallonWhy focusing on AI water use may be a distraction from agriculture, which accounts for the vast majority of Arizona's water footprintWhat the Loudoun County, Virginia model can teach Arizona cities about negotiating with data centers before they break groundHow local governments can and should require data centers to internalize infrastructure costs so that burden does not land on ratepayersWhy noise pollution, not water use, is the issue residents near data centers most consistently raiseWhat the recent SRP board election reveals about the tension between clean energy investment and keeping electricity bills lowWhy Andy believes industrial animal agriculture, AI governance, and renewable energy infrastructure are the three highest-leverage issues facing the world right nowConnect with Andy Masley:  Website: AndyMasley.com Email: AndyMasley@gmail.com  LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/andrew-masley

    43 min
  4. Adapt or Atrophy: Why Law Firms Have 12 Months to Master AI

    Apr 16

    Adapt or Atrophy: Why Law Firms Have 12 Months to Master AI

    If you are a solo or small firm attorney trying to figure out where AI fits in your practice, this episode of LawLabs (a special series from the Modern Arizona Podcast) is your starting point. Carolyn Elefant breaks down exactly how to begin with AI tools, why most lawyers are evaluating them in the wrong order, and what the real risks look like when AI gets citations wrong. She also shares an honest prediction of where the profession is headed and why firms that are not adopting now will find themselves in a very difficult position within the year. Carolyn Elefant is the founder of the Law Offices of Carolyn Elefant and the creator of MyShingle.com, the longest-running blog dedicated to solo and small firm practice. A Cornell grad who started her firm in 1993, she has spent over two decades consulting, writing, and advocating for independent lawyers and is currently traveling the country speaking to attorneys about AI and its real-world impact on their practices. Topics discussed: Where lawyers should actually start with AI tools and what to avoid firstWhy you need to learn general AI tools before legal-specific onesHow to protect yourself from hallucinated and mischaracterized case citationsWhat the legal profession looks like in one year and in fiveWhy firms that are not using AI are running out of time to catch upFind Carolyn: MyShingle.com

    34 min
  5. Inside an Immigration Law Firm on the Frontlines of Chaos

    Mar 17

    Inside an Immigration Law Firm on the Frontlines of Chaos

    Immigration attorney and law firm founder Hillary Walsh joins Billie Tarascio for a candid conversation about what it's really like to run an immigration law firm in today's turbulent legal and political climate. From filing habeas petitions to protect unlawfully detained clients, to navigating due process violations and a surge in demand for legal services, Hillary shares how her practice has evolved, and how she's adapting to protect both her clients and her team. They also dig into the business side of running a growing firm: the hard decisions around hiring and letting people go, bringing on a CFO, building custom software from scratch, and finding an operations leader who can handle 1,000+ filings a month. Plus, Hillary opens up about supporting remote employees in Mexico during a crisis, dealing with racist online harassment, and why she's investing in a life coach after years of business-only coaching. Whether you're an immigration attorney, a law firm owner, or just someone trying to understand what's happening at the intersection of law and politics right now, this episode is for you. Topics Covered: Immigration law strategy under the current administrationHabeas petitions and unlawful detention casesHiring, firing, and leveling up your teamBuilding law firm operations and custom softwareSupporting a remote team during a crisisBusiness coaches that actually helped and how to choose oneConnect with Hillary: Website: https://newfrontier.us/ Phone: 623-742-5400 Email: hillary@newfrontier.us  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newfrontierimmigrationlaw  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newfrontierimmigrationlaw TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@newfrontier_immigration

    33 min
  6. The End of the Billable Hour? Scaling a Modern Law Firm with Jessica Travis

    Mar 3

    The End of the Billable Hour? Scaling a Modern Law Firm with Jessica Travis

    In this episode of Law Labs, Billie Tarascio sits down with Jessica Travis, Co-Owner and Managing Partner of Fighter Law in Orlando, Florida. They talk about how modern law firms can move beyond billable hours, use AI tools the right way, and build strong internal systems that support real growth. Law Labs is a podcast for law firm owners and legal professionals who want to build smarter firms. Each episode focuses on systems, technology, billing models, marketing, and practical strategies that help firms grow in a sustainable way. Jessica Travis is the Managing Partner and Co-Owner of Fighter Law, based in Florida. She leads a growing firm that practices Family Law, Criminal Defense, Personal Injury, and Estate Planning. Jessica is passionate about building strong SOPs, improving client service, and integrating technology into daily operations. From experimenting with flat fee billing in family law to implementing an AI receptionist and improving data tracking through Clio, she focuses on practical innovation that supports both clients and her team. In this episode, you will learn: 👉 How to design a flexible flat fee model for family law 👉 Why the billable hour model is becoming harder to justify 👉 How AI receptionists can improve intake and reduce missed opportunities 👉 How to track leads, consultations, and revenue weekly 👉 How to train and supervise young attorneys using systems 👉 How to approach AI without chasing every new tool Connect with Jessica Travis: Fighter Law: https://fighterlaw.com

    32 min
  7. From Legal Tech to Civil Rights: Scaling a National Firm with Bob Simon

    Feb 24

    From Legal Tech to Civil Rights: Scaling a National Firm with Bob Simon

    In this episode of the Modern Arizona Podcast, Law Labs Edition, Billie Tarascio sits down with Bob Simon. They talk about what it means to run a national law firm, build legal tech companies, and step into civil rights advocacy during a time of major legal and political tension. Bob Simon is an entrepreneur, trial lawyer, and co-founder of multiple companies, including a national personal injury firm and the legal tech platform Attorney Share. He is also actively involved in civil rights litigation, including cases involving ICE detentions, unlawful stops, and police misconduct. His firm handles personal injury and civil rights matters across the country, and he has been involved in litigation related to wildfire recovery and large-scale corporate accountability. Bob is also a father of three and speaks openly about balancing family, trauma-heavy legal work, and public advocacy. In this episode, you will learn: 👉 How lawyers can organize and support civil rights cases even if they do not practice immigration law 👉 What illegal detentions look like inside the courtroom 👉 How referral networks can help solo and small firms take action 👉 How Attorney Share connects 5,500+ lawyers nationwide 👉 How technology and AI can automate intake and case routing 👉 Why some civil rights cases may never pay but still matter 👉 How large corporations fight liability and what trial lawyers can do about it To learn more about Bob and his team, you can visit the sites below.  https://community.justicehq.com/  thesimonlawgroup.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesimonlawgroup/  #culture #law #lawfirm #lawyers #billietarascio #modernlaw #businessoflaw #lawfirmlife #entrepreneur #ai #optimisticdisruptor  #billietarascio #bobsimon #justiceteam

    30 min
  8. The Future of Law Firms: AI, Unstable Marketing & What Comes Next

    Feb 17

    The Future of Law Firms: AI, Unstable Marketing & What Comes Next

    In this Law Labs episode of the Modern Arizona Divorce Podcast, Billie Tarascio sits down with Tyson Mutrux, founder of Mutrux Firm Injury Lawyers and owner of Maximum Lawyer, to talk about what is really happening inside modern law firms. Tyson is not just a personal injury attorney. He is an entrepreneur, systems thinker, and constant experimenter who is building, testing, and automating in real time. In this conversation, he shares how AI is changing legal workflows, why marketing feels unstable, and how firm owners can stay steady while everything around them shifts. They talk about AI in daily operations, intake automation, malpractice concerns, and why small workflow improvements matter more than flashy tools. They also discuss why SEO is becoming less predictable, why in-person relationship building is making a comeback, and how future technologies like self-driving cars could impact personal injury law. If you feel like the ground is moving under your firm, this episode will help you slow down and think clearly about your next steps. KEY TAKEAWAYS ✓ AI is already reshaping daily legal work, especially behind the scenes. ✓ Small automation wins can save several hours per week per team member. ✓ Intake automation must include clear human oversight to reduce risk. ✓ SEO-driven marketing is becoming less reliable as search behavior shifts. ✓ In-person relationship building is becoming more valuable again. ✓ AI can increase firm capacity, but demand may shift by practice area. ✓ Self-driving cars could reduce certain personal injury cases over time. ✓ Diversifying services can help firms prepare for long-term industry changes. ✓ Culture matters. Firms that encourage experimentation adapt faster. ✓ Reputation and strong relationships remain the ultimate long-term advantage. CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction and Tyson’s background 02:04 How the Maximum Lawyer podcast started 05:21 The real impact of podcasting on a law firm 09:35 Why the Maximum Lawyer Conference is different 15:57 Marketing shifts and industry confusion 20:05 Why no one knows what 2027 will look like 21:22 Preparing a firm for constant change 25:16 How AI is integrated into daily legal work 28:30 AI intake and malpractice concerns 36:04 AI, workload, and firm capacity 39:07 Mega firms, supply and demand, and self-driving cars 41:51 Diversification and long-term strategy 44:10 Advice for lawyers feeling overwhelmed CONNECT WITH TYSON Company: Mutrux Firm Injury Lawyers Address: 2415 Carter Ln. Ste 102, Columbia, MO 65201 Learn more: https://tysonmutrux.com/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/maximumlawyer https://www.instagram.com/maximumlawyer/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/maximum-lawyer/

    44 min
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About

Welcome to Law Labs — the podcast where law firm life gets a glow-up. Hosted by entrepreneur, attorney,  Modern Law founder, and optimistic disrupter, Billie Tarascio, this show is your backstage pass to the business of law. We’re not talking billable hours and black-letter law — we’re talking AI-powered operations, next-gen leadership, smart growth, and real strategy. Billie digs into the systems, stories, and shifts shaping modern legal practice—alongside law firm owners, legal technologists, and bold thinkers who are rewriting the rules. Expect real talk about: Scaling law firms without burning outLeading with clarity, culture, and dataUsing AI and automation without losing the human touchBuilding sustainable businesses that serve your life—not just your clientsValuation, VC, and the art of getting acquired (or acquiring others) This is your lab for testing what’s possible—then building it. If you're ready to lead smarter, scale faster, and think bigger—welcome to the future of law. Let’s jump in.

Information

  • Creator
    Billie Tarascio
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    15
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Law Labs
  • Show Website
    Law Labs