Law Labs

Billie Tarascio
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Welcome to Law Labs — the podcast where law firm life gets a glow-up. Hosted by entrepreneur, attorney,  Modern Law founder, and optimistic disrupter, Billie Tarascio, this show is your backstage pass to the business of law. We’re not talking billable hours and black-letter law — we’re talking AI-powered operations, next-gen leadership, smart growth, and real strategy. Billie digs into the systems, stories, and shifts shaping modern legal practice—alongside law firm owners, legal technologists, and bold thinkers who are rewriting the rules. Expect real talk about: Scaling law firms without burning outLeading with clarity, culture, and dataUsing AI and automation without losing the human touchBuilding sustainable businesses that serve your life—not just your clientsValuation, VC, and the art of getting acquired (or acquiring others) This is your lab for testing what’s possible—then building it. If you're ready to lead smarter, scale faster, and think bigger—welcome to the future of law. Let’s jump in.

  1. Sep 4

    What Is Your Law Firm Actually Worth? A Buyer's Perspective on Private Equity Deals

    Law firms are selling for real money, and private equity is now part of the buyer pool. In this Law Labs edition, Billie Tarascio digs into what law firms sell for, how deals get structured, and why more owners treat a sale as a growth move instead of a retirement plan. Tom Lenfestey is the founder and CEO of The Law Practice Exchange, a marketplace and advisory firm for law firm sales, acquisitions, and succession planning. A practicing attorney, CPA, and law firm owner himself, Tom launched the platform in 2013 and has since closed over $350 million in law firm transactions. He contributes to Bloomberg Law, Law360, and Attorney at Work, and hosts The Exchange with Tom Lenfestey podcast. Key takeaways: - Learn why lawyer-to-lawyer deals still drive most sales under $10 million - Understand how private equity reset law firm valuations in just two years - See what a 2.5 to 3.5 multiple of adjusted net income means for your firm - Find out why large personal injury firms command multiples up to 8x - Discover how much cash sellers can expect at closing, and what changes it - Compare earnouts, seller notes, and escrow structures in plain terms - Plan for the 12 to 24 months most sellers stay on after closing - Separate purchase price from compensation for post-sale legal work - Hear why a 32-year-old owner sold as a growth strategy - Watch for MSO buyers now targeting firms under $10 million - Prepare for large-scale family law and estate planning firms to emerge Chapters: 00:35 Introduction to Law Firm Exchange 03:25 Marketplace Dynamics and Private Advisory 06:10 Trends in Law Firm Transactions 09:16 The Role of Private Capital 11:54 Understanding Pricing Models 14:33 Transaction Structures and Seller Involvement 17:38 Shifts in Law Firm Ownership Perspectives 20:19 Future of Law Firm Transactions Connect with Tom Lenfestey: Website: https://www.thelawpracticeexchange.com Email: tom@thelawpracticeexchange.com LinkedIn (personal): https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomlenfestey/ LinkedIn (company): https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-law-practice-exchange/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawpracticeexchange/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thelawpracticeexchange/

    What Is Your Law Firm Actually Worth? A Buyer's Perspective on Private Equity Deals

  2. Aug 27

    How to Get AI to Recommend Your Law Firm

    Clients are no longer starting their search for a lawyer on Google. They are asking AI tools like ChatGPT and Claude for recommendations, and the rules for law firm marketing have changed with them. In this Law Labs edition, Billie Tarascio and legal marketing expert Amanda Sexton break down how AI search works, why your website alone no longer carries the weight it once did, and what firms need to do now to be the name AI recommends. Amanda Sexton is the founder of FocusWorks Marketing, an agency built on the trademark promise of content that converts. With more than 15 years in legal marketing, she helps law firm leaders identify what genuinely sets their firm apart and turn it into visibility in the places clients now search, including the AI tools rapidly replacing Google. Key Takeaways: - Learn why AI tools trust what others say about your firm more than your own website - Discover why PR, awards, and public speaking shifted from nice-to-have to must-have - Understand why recency matters, with AI weighing signals from the last three months - Audit your firm by asking ChatGPT or Claude what it knows and what would change its mind - Structure site content with clear headings, bullet points, and client stories AI can read - Keep your firm's information consistent across every directory and platform - Repurpose one core content piece across LinkedIn, YouTube, and your website - Skip duplicate AI-only websites and build one site ready for AI from the start - Weigh the risks before rebuilding a WordPress site from scratch with Claude Code - Use AI agents to catch SEO problems in days instead of weeks - Expect AI search results to change constantly, with different names surfacing each time - Stay consistent, because no one has a silver bullet and consistency still wins Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 00:38 Amanda's Background and FocusWorks Marketing 01:43 Is AI Search Actually Impacting Law Firms Yet 02:59 What Makes AI Tools Recommend a Firm 06:32 AI Watermarking and What It Means for Content 08:46 The Basics of Showing Up in AI Search 10:06 How to Audit Your Firm Using AI Prompts 12:47 Should You Rebuild Your Site with Claude Code 14:05 AI Agents for Marketing Tasks 14:50 Marketing Costs and the Shift to Multi-Channel 16:00 What AI Search Requires That SEO Does Not 17:43 Predictions for the Year Ahead 19:31 ChatGPT Ads and Attribution 21:08 How to Work with Amanda 22:16 Outro Connect with Amanda Sexton: Website: https://focusworks.marketing Email: amanda@focusworks.marketing LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandasexton/ FocusWorks Marketing on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/focusworks-marketing/ #lawofattraction #lawfirm #lawyers #billietarascio #modernlaw #businessoflaw #lawfirmlife #entrepreneur #ai #optimisticdisruptor

    How to Get AI to Recommend Your Law Firm

  3. Aug 14

    Private Equity Is Buying Law Firms: What Every Partner Needs to Know Before Signing

    Private equity money is moving into law firms, and legal MSOs sit at the center of the shift. Frederick Shelton advises law firm owners through these deals and explains what separates a strong offer from one that costs a partner their leverage, their income, or their license. Billie Tarascio walks through valuations, EBITDA multiples, Rule 5.4 exposure, and the questions every firm owner should ask before the first meeting. Frederick Shelton serves as CEO and Firm Side Advisor at Shelton & Steele, where he works almost exclusively on law firm M&A and legal MSO transactions. He built a legal recruiting practice thirty years ago, moved into law firm mergers and acquisitions two decades later, and now represents firms across the table from private equity buyers. His predictive analysis on virtual law firms and artificial intelligence ran in Attorney at Law Magazine and American Lawyer ahead of both curves, with commentary picked up by Forbes and Bloomberg. He currently advises firms ranging from three million to over three hundred million in annual revenue. Key takeaways: - Understand how a legal MSO lifts administrative work off partners - Compare standard MSOs with private equity backed MSOs - Learn why Rule 5.4 shapes every deal structure - Spot the terms that signal a weak offer - Value a firm using EBITDA multiples ranging from four to ten times - Recognize why the highest upfront number rarely means the best deal - Negotiate ownership of an internal AI platform and other intellectual property - Plan for the income dip that follows the upfront payment - Structure MSO distributions so partner income recovers and climbs higher - Merge with like minded firms to reach a stronger valuation - Understand why micro investors now court firms at one million EBITDA - Hire a deal attorney and an ethics attorney before the first conversation - Vet the buyer as closely as the buyer vets the firm Chapters: 01:19 Thirty years in legal recruiting and law firm M&A 03:00 Predicting virtual law firms and AI ahead of the curve 04:15 What a legal MSO does for partners 06:49 Broker, banker, or something new 08:56 Why upfront valuation misleads sellers 10:45 Bad deals being signed right now 13:19 What a strong MSO deal looks like 14:56 Partner income after closing  15:48 Merging with other firms before a sale 16:59 Why smaller firms hold real upside 18:00 Rule 5.4 and the coming backlash 21:24 Vetting private equity partners 24:08 Seller friendly MSOs entering quietly 25:06 Results from firms already closed Connect with Frederick Shelton: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frederick-shelton/

    Private Equity Is Buying Law Firms: What Every Partner Needs to Know Before Signing

  4. Jul 30

    Trafficking, Title IX, and Platform Liability: Building a Civil Rights Practice with Caitlin Engstrand

    Caitlin Engstrand spent years as a public defender before moving into private practice with National Injury Attorneys, where she now handles civil rights, sexual assault, and trafficking victim cases across Arizona. In this Law Labs episode she walks through the practical mechanics of building a practice in an area with no established playbook, and what the ABS structure changed about how she selects and funds cases. Topics covered: - The Backpage victim compensation fund and the documentation burden on decade-old trafficking claims - Liability theory for platforms where adults gain access to minors, including Roblox and Meta - Title IX exposure and the special relationship doctrine in Arizona school cases - FERPA and HR objections as barriers to pre-suit evidence, and why discovery becomes the only path - SROs acting under color of law, and the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment questions that follow - The six month notice of claim window against public entities, and running a civil track parallel to a criminal defense - Spousal tort viability: statute of limitations, collectability, and intentional tort exclusions in homeowners policies - How class action revenue inside an ABS funded 700 pro bono hours last year Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to Caitlin Engstrand's Journey 03:24 Transitioning from Public Defense to Private Practice 06:12 Understanding Backpage and Victim Compensation 09:02 The Impact of Trafficking on Victims 11:52 Liability of Online Platforms in Exploitation Cases 14:28 Navigating Legal Challenges in Child Protection 17:22 The Role of ABS in Modern Legal Practice 20:12 Civil Rights Cases Against Schools and Police 21:26 Navigating Civil and Criminal Cases 23:10 School Liability and Title IX Violations 28:37 The Role of School Resource Officers 36:17 Addressing Spousal Abuse and Legal Accountability 39:38 Suing Employers for Workplace Violations Useful for practitioners evaluating alternative business structures, criminal defense and family law attorneys who encounter parallel civil claims, and anyone assessing referral relationships in this space.

    Trafficking, Title IX, and Platform Liability: Building a Civil Rights Practice with Caitlin Engstrand

  5. Jun 25

    Ditch the Billable Hour: How to Price Value, Not Time with Shaun Jardine

    Value-based pricing gives law firms a way out of the billable hour and into pricing that reflects outcomes, not time. Shaun Jardine breaks down how solo attorneys and small firm owners can offer clients gold, silver, and bronze service levels, run a successful pricing pilot, and grow profitability without padding timesheets. Shaun Jardine is the founder of Big Yellow Penguin and former CEO of a Top 250 UK law firm, with over 35 years in the legal profession. He wrote Ditch the Billable Hour, a 400-page guide to value-based pricing, and the follow-up Ditch & Switch, which lays out 50 real-world pricing examples across private client and commercial work. He created the 8-P Point Plan, a framework that helps firms move from time-based billing to value-based pricing. What you'll learn: - Price outcomes and value instead of hours and inputs - Offer clients three service levels at three price points - Run a value-based pricing pilot one lawyer at a time - Build a pioneer group of willing lawyers, not skeptics - Give fixed prices in litigation using the concentric circles method - Chunk litigation work into yes work, likely work, and next stages - Ask clients what service level they expect before you price - Turn away unprofitable, difficult clients to free up capacity - Document a pricing policy every new hire learns on day one - Run after-action reviews when a fixed price misses the mark - Understand why clients rank lower price 14th, not 1st - Apply Kotter change management to win over resistant lawyers Chapters: 00:00 Welcome and Shaun's path to value-based pricing 03:53 How to run a pricing pilot and offer three service levels 08:22 Handling case variability and turning away bad work 13:00 Fixed pricing in litigation and creative fee models 21:44 The 8-P Point Plan and getting lawyers to buy in 28:00 What the most profitable firms do differently Connect with Shaun Jardine: Email: shaun@bigyellowpenguin.co.uk Website: bigyellowpenguin.co.uk LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/shaunjardine Books: Ditch the Billable Hour and Ditch & Switch (available on Amazon)

    Ditch the Billable Hour: How to Price Value, Not Time with Shaun Jardine

  6. Jun 11

    Private Equity Is Coming for Law Firms: What Every Owner Needs to Know

    Private equity and venture capital are moving into the legal industry fast, and law firm owners face real decisions about MSOs, ABS structures, and what it means to take outside capital. This Law Labs roundtable breaks down how private equity actually works when it buys a law firm, why the headline price often hides debt and leverage, and what separates a good partner from a deal that destroys value. Host Billie Tarascio sits down with three attorneys who each live this issue from a different angle. Fred Litwiniuk is a Canadian law firm owner who took private equity to grow his firm and now partners with other firm owners through an MSO and ABS model. Taylor Bell works in ABS and MSO setup and sits on Arizona's ABS regulatory board, with a focus on legal ethics where these structures overlap. TJ Henry runs a vendor-backed MSO that operates as the back office for law firms and previously ran one of the first PE-backed law firms in recent history. What you will learn in this episode: Understand the real difference between an MSO and an ABS, and when a firm needs neitherLearn why Arizona's relaxed fee-sharing rules change the calculus for firm ownersSee how private equity uses debt and leverage to fund most of a purchase priceFind out why a deal that looks like a 6x multiple to you can look like a 4x to the buyerDiscover what earnouts and rolled equity actually mean for your payoutGrasp why your firm is worth more to buyers the less it depends on you personallyHear why most PE firms calling on lawyers have never operated a law firmLearn the multiple ranges firms are actually seeing today, and which deals tend to failUnderstand why clean financials before the LOI stage protect your valuationExplore lessons from non-lawyer ownership in Australia and the UKFind out why a captive MSO can create value even without selling to outside capitalGet a framework for vetting a PE partner before you ever signMeet the Guests: Fred Litwiniuk Chief Growth Officer, Litco Law Fred is a Civil Litigation attorney and member of the Law Society of Alberta who, alongside his brother Todd, grew Litco Law into a model for contemporary legal operations. With a dual MBA from Cornell and Queen's, he speaks from experience on taking private capital into his own firm. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fredric-litwiniuk/ Taylor Bell Founding Partner, Arizona ABS Law Taylor is a compliance attorney and appointed member of the Arizona Supreme Court's ABS Committee. He guides firms, legal tech companies, and investors through ABS formation, governance, and regulatory strategy, with inside insight into the Committee's standards. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylor-bell/  TJ Henry Jr. Co-Founder & Managing Partner, Federate Legal TJ is a legal operations executive who runs a vendor-backed MSO serving as the back office for law firms. He previously ran one of the first PE-backed law firms in recent history and knows firsthand what can go wrong inside these deals.  LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/federatelegal

    Private Equity Is Coming for Law Firms: What Every Owner Needs to Know

  7. Jun 4

    Is ChatGPT actually draining Arizona dry?

    Arizona water bills have doubled or tripled in the last year, and a lot of people are pointing fingers at AI and data centers. The viral claim that every ChatGPT prompt uses a full bottle of water has parents, teenagers, and city council members convinced that artificial intelligence is draining the desert dry. But what if the math is completely wrong? Andy Masley is a former high school physics teacher turned independent researcher who became one of the most cited voices in the national data center conversation after his writing went viral and earned him a private grant from a $4 billion philanthropic organization. He is also the person who caught what may be the single largest factual error ever published in a major bestselling book, a mistake the New York Times covered and the author eventually corrected. What you will learn in this episode: Why the "bottle of water per AI prompt" claim is off by a factor of roughly 500, based on more recent dataHow a missing unit of measurement made a Chilean data center look 1,000 times more water-intensive than it actually wasWhat the median ChatGPT prompt actually costs in energy (around 3 watt hours) and how that stacks up against daily lifeWhy optimizing AI chip efficiency means each individual prompt is getting cheaper over time, not more expensiveHow Arizona data centers compare to golf courses in water consumption, and which one wins on tax revenue per gallonWhy focusing on AI water use may be a distraction from agriculture, which accounts for the vast majority of Arizona's water footprintWhat the Loudoun County, Virginia model can teach Arizona cities about negotiating with data centers before they break groundHow local governments can and should require data centers to internalize infrastructure costs so that burden does not land on ratepayersWhy noise pollution, not water use, is the issue residents near data centers most consistently raiseWhat the recent SRP board election reveals about the tension between clean energy investment and keeping electricity bills lowWhy Andy believes industrial animal agriculture, AI governance, and renewable energy infrastructure are the three highest-leverage issues facing the world right nowConnect with Andy Masley:  Website: AndyMasley.com Email: AndyMasley@gmail.com  LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/andrew-masley

    Is ChatGPT actually draining Arizona dry?

  8. Apr 16

    Adapt or Atrophy: Why Law Firms Have 12 Months to Master AI

    If you are a solo or small firm attorney trying to figure out where AI fits in your practice, this episode of LawLabs (a special series from the Modern Arizona Podcast) is your starting point. Carolyn Elefant breaks down exactly how to begin with AI tools, why most lawyers are evaluating them in the wrong order, and what the real risks look like when AI gets citations wrong. She also shares an honest prediction of where the profession is headed and why firms that are not adopting now will find themselves in a very difficult position within the year. Carolyn Elefant is the founder of the Law Offices of Carolyn Elefant and the creator of MyShingle.com, the longest-running blog dedicated to solo and small firm practice. A Cornell grad who started her firm in 1993, she has spent over two decades consulting, writing, and advocating for independent lawyers and is currently traveling the country speaking to attorneys about AI and its real-world impact on their practices. Topics discussed: Where lawyers should actually start with AI tools and what to avoid firstWhy you need to learn general AI tools before legal-specific onesHow to protect yourself from hallucinated and mischaracterized case citationsWhat the legal profession looks like in one year and in fiveWhy firms that are not using AI are running out of time to catch upFind Carolyn: MyShingle.com

    Adapt or Atrophy: Why Law Firms Have 12 Months to Master AI
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About

Welcome to Law Labs — the podcast where law firm life gets a glow-up. Hosted by entrepreneur, attorney,  Modern Law founder, and optimistic disrupter, Billie Tarascio, this show is your backstage pass to the business of law. We’re not talking billable hours and black-letter law — we’re talking AI-powered operations, next-gen leadership, smart growth, and real strategy. Billie digs into the systems, stories, and shifts shaping modern legal practice—alongside law firm owners, legal technologists, and bold thinkers who are rewriting the rules. Expect real talk about: Scaling law firms without burning outLeading with clarity, culture, and dataUsing AI and automation without losing the human touchBuilding sustainable businesses that serve your life—not just your clientsValuation, VC, and the art of getting acquired (or acquiring others) This is your lab for testing what’s possible—then building it. If you're ready to lead smarter, scale faster, and think bigger—welcome to the future of law. Let’s jump in.

Information

  • Creator
    Billie Tarascio
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    19
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Law Labs
  • Show Website
    Law Labs

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