Asynchrony Podcast

Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley
  • 5.0 (1)
  • Philosophy
  • Updated Weekly

A podcast featuring regular discussions between a bleeding-heart liberal and a three-time Trump voter. We explore where our perspectives diverge and where they come together. If you are expecting name calling and acrimony, this might not be for you. If, however, you want to better understand the divisions that are causing so much stress in our world today, then you might feel right at home. Subscribe today to join the conversation and help us be a part of the solution rather than a reason for the problem.

  1. 4d ago

    Episode 37 - Breaking Down Racism - History and Now

    Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley explore the complex factors behind racial polarization, the impact of historical policies like redlining, and the importance of understanding different perspectives to foster meaningful dialogue. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the discussion on race and polarization 02:03 Kevin and Dean share social media experiences highlighting societal divides 04:08 The concept of identity stacking and hierarchy in political and racial views 07:57 The progressive stack and its influence on societal conversations 12:10 Analyzing public perceptions and misconceptions about race and racism 15:54 The importance of understanding alternative explanations beyond racism 20:04 The role of moral foundations in shaping attitudes towards race 23:57 Historical context: Civil Rights Act and its impact on societal views 28:10 The evolution of the definition of racism and societal perceptions 31:45 The influence of economic factors and resource scarcity on social divides 36:08 The impact of policies like redlining on racial inequality 40:05 Legislative efforts to address systemic racism and their effects 44:02 The importance of dialogue and understanding in bridging divides 47:48 The role of in-group and out-group dynamics in social perception 51:51 The influence of moral and cultural frameworks on attitudes 56:03 The importance of examining structural causes and incentives 01:00:06 The impact of economic and social crises on polarization 01:04:00 Theories of group behavior and resource competition 01:08:11 The concept of zero-sum thinking and its societal effects 01:12:13 Understanding the role of identity and status in social conflicts 01:16:01 The importance of open dialogue and avoiding moral judgments 01:20:03 Conclusion: Moving towards understanding and constructive conversations Support our work by subscribing to our Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/c/AsynchronyPodcast and get access to detailed analyses for every episode.

  2. Oct 6

    Episode 36 - Prioritizing Race - Identity Stacking

    Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley continue their analysis of political polarization by asking whether race is its primary driver—or one part of a broader system involving identity, messaging, and political incentives. They trace developments from 1964 through the late 1970s, explore how identities become politically aligned, and examine why people often project their own priorities onto the other side. Chapters 00:00 — Recap: political movement and ideological diversity 01:50 — Why the conversation turns to race 03:03 — The Civil Rights Act and the polarization timeline 04:37 — Correlation, causation, and the race question 06:11 — Racial prejudice trends and the growing visibility of race 07:27 — Why acknowledging declining prejudice does not mean racism is gone 09:24 — In-groups, out-groups, and human identity 11:55 — The years between the Civil Rights Act and rising polarization 13:58 — Identity stacking and moralized politics 16:17 — From cross-cutting identities to a political mega identity 18:43 — Identity consolidation and the idea of totalization 20:54 — Class politics and changes in the Democratic Party 21:50 — The McGovern–Fraser Commission and primary reforms 23:38 — The New Left and the evolution of political ideas 27:06 — How race and tribal identity connect in the discussion 28:19 — Why so many issues feel political 30:15 — Intuition, System 1 thinking, and political judgment 31:30 — Identity subsidiarity and political conformity 32:41 — Media and fundraising incentives 36:13 — Identity hierarchies and the “progressive stack” 39:31 — Geography, religion, and identity on the right 42:18 — How projection shapes political interpretation 43:21 — Historical voting patterns and changing coalitions 45:39 — Recent shifts among voters by education and demographic group 47:33 — Class-first and identity-first tensions 49:44 — The perception gap between political sides 55:04 — Race salience, perceived threat, and identity shifts 57:10 — The emergence of white political identity 1:00:23 — In-group cohesion and out-group boundaries 1:02:44 — Group position theory and perceived group standing 1:04:09 — The Confederate flag and competing interpretations 1:07:41 — How identity hierarchies change the meaning of symbols 1:09:27 — Racial prioritization and identity consolidation 1:11:17 — Feedback loops between salience and polarization 1:13:02 — What the evidence does—and does not—show Support our work by subscribing to our Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/c/AsynchronyPodcast and get access to detailed analyses for every episode.

  3. Sep 29

    Episode 35 - Abandoning the Middle Ground - Who Moved?

    This episode of the Asynchrony Podcast asks a deceptively simple question: who actually moved more, the left or the right? Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley use their framework to separate perception from evidence, comparing elite political voting data, voter self-identification, and cultural institution shifts.They also dig into why this feels so personal now, how in-group and out-group identity forms before policy disagreement, and why the same words can mean different things across partisan lines. 00:00 - Opening the series and framing the polarization question 03:14 - The original meme that sparked the discussion 06:03 - “Who actually moved?” as the episode’s core question 09:23 - Introducing DW-NOMINATE and congressional voting data 11:18 - Two-dimensional political sorting and historical issue splits 14:01 - When the political middle started to break apart 16:14 - Republicans moving farther right than Democrats moved left 18:18 - Why the left appears more homogeneous than the right 23:52 - The difference between elite politics and voter behavior 24:29 - Cross-party marriage aversion as a sign of tribal hardening 27:16 - Feeling thermometers and growing hostility across parties 30:25 - In-group and out-group animosity comes before policy 32:04 - Social sorting and the rise of the political mega-identity 34:27 - Tracking the emotional gap from the 1970s to 2020 35:47 - Emotion, rationalization, and Jonathan Haidt’s rider and elephant 38:40 - Group loyalty hardens first, then policy positions follow 40:06 - The Great Awokening and shifts among white liberals 42:29 - Media, academia, and institutional alignment 44:54 - Structural power executed versus cultural visibility achieved 46:27 - Why definitions matter as much as data 51:18 - Concept creep and the broadening of terms on both sides 54:00 - Different meanings of racism in partisan conversation 57:28 - Individualist versus structuralist worldviews 58:04 - The Overton window and how it may have shifted 61:20 - Why hardcore partisans are the least reliable judges of change 62:15 - Most Americans say things have mostly stayed the same 64:46 - Why politics feels so personal now 66:46 - How humans form tribes around almost anything 68:37 - Why the right fears institutional lock-in 71:28 - The rise of alternative institutions and media on the right 73:00 - Credentialed versus non-credentialed language divides 76:31 - What surprised each host most about the analysis 78:42 - The real danger is the loss of overlap81:08 - The Civil Rights Act as a future topic for deeper study Support our work by subscribing to our Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/c/AsynchronyPodcast and get access to detailed analyses for every episode.

  4. Sep 22

    Episode 34 - Split Screens - Trust and the Media

    In this episode, Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley explore the deep roots of media polarization, its historical development, and its impact on societal division. They analyze how structural changes, elite influences, and technological advancements have shaped the current media landscape and polarization dynamics. In this episode, Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley explore the dynamics of media totalization, the impact of social media, and the challenges of misinformation and bias in both legacy and alternative media systems. They analyze historical patterns and predict future trends in media consolidation and polarization. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and overview of media polarization 00:04 Introduction to media totalization cycles 01:55 Media as a downstream symptom of societal split 02:20 Historical overview: print, broadcast, and social media 03:59 Different media realities and their impact on polarization 09:14 Historical perspective on media objectivity and bias 10:01 Impact of low barriers to entry on media diversity 15:09 The rise of credentialism and professional journalism 15:47 Consolidation and control in media industries 20:01 The impact of regulatory changes like the repeal of the fairness doctrine 24:49 Bias, vocabulary, and communication gaps between media silos 26:04 Elite influence and the development of media narratives 32:54 The role of technological change and new media platforms 35:34 Social media's role in accelerating totalization 39:57 Structural causes of polarization and the breakdown of feedback mechanisms 45:05 Case studies: Biden's cognitive decline and suppression narratives 49:56 In-group/out-group dynamics and moral judgments in media 55:00 Accuracy, misinformation, and systemic failure modes 59:56 Implications for society and potential solutions 01:05:09 Predictions for future media trends and reforms 01:14:52 Conclusion: balancing media systems and seeking truth Support our work by subscribing to our Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/c/AsynchronyPodcast and get access to detailed analyses for every episode.

  5. Sep 15

    Episode 33 - Academia's Report Card - Does It Succeed?

    This episode examines what academia is actually producing if it is not indoctrination. Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley compare the stated purpose of education with the real-world outputs, focusing on workforce readiness, research quality, and the structural incentives shaping universities.The discussion also broadens into elite overproduction, administrative growth, and why self-sealing systems can drift away from their original purpose even without malicious intent. Chapters (0:00) Opening the question: what is academia actually producing? (1:55) Why the indoctrination narrative does not explain the system (4:08) Diploma divide, self-sorting, and heterodox exclusion (6:19) Comparing academia with military and church-aligned institutions (8:43) Symmetry, ideology, and structural drift (10:01) Are students actually being educated? (11:50) Historically Christian colleges and the New College Florida example (14:09) Totalization, backlash, and why mirror-image institutions fail (18:57) Symmetry in mechanism does not mean symmetry in current outcomes (21:51) Why the conversation shifts from ideology to measurable output (24:22) K through 12 decline in reading and math proficiency (26:40) Education’s stated purpose versus its actual results (28:27) Critical thinking as the most visible skill gap (30:08) Consequence redistribution: debt, credentials, and labor outcomes (31:21) Student, educator, and employer misalignment (33:15) Japan, Scandinavia, and tying outcomes back to accountability (35:34) Structural checks that could realign higher education (37:31) Should academia at least be producing scholars? (38:25) The PhD pipeline and the replication crisis (40:25) Publisher perish and publication incentives (43:07) The self-sealing loop of peer review and committee structures (44:44) Administrative growth as a major totalization marker (47:26) Replication crisis, debt, and credential capture (48:48) Credentials without ownership or guarantee (50:10) Graduates, job placement, and salary expectations (54:10) Elite overproduction and social instability (57:26) The Great Awokenings and cyclical elite activism (61:38) When elite frustration becomes politically volatile (65:16) AI, displaced knowledge workers, and the next pressure point (71:03) Heterodox Academy, Jonathan Haidt, and reform from within (73:20) The bias hidden inside “neutral” research questions (75:18) Why the framework matters for seeing the pattern (77:13) The real problem is the self-sealing system (79:41) External checks in engineering versus closed academic loops (81:14) The plain-language conclusion: credentials and debt (82:22) Why this is a systemic risk, not just a university problem (83:55) The value of open disagreement and honest discussion (85:42) Closing thanks and next steps Support our work by subscribing to our Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/c/AsynchronyPodcast and get access to detailed analyses for every episode.

  6. Sep 8

    Episode 32 - Testing Academia - Does It Indoctrinate?

    Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley continue their ongoing framework-based conversation, this time testing the popular claim that academia is indoctrinating students. They separate the right-wing narrative about left-leaning universities from the left-wing claim that higher education is simply the pursuit of truth, then use research to see which parts hold up. The result is nuanced: academia is politically skewed, but the evidence for direct ideological conversion of students is much weaker than the rhetoric suggests. Chapters 00:00 - Opening the episode and setting up the academia question 01:03 - From credentialing to indoctrination: what the series is now testing 03:16 - Why their framework keeps challenging both sides’ assumptions 04:50 - The right-wing narrative: universities as left-wing production machines 06:31 - The left-wing counter-narrative: higher education as truth-seeking 07:47 - Aesthetic layer versus structural layer in academia 09:32 - Faculty ideology and the liberal-to-conservative imbalance 12:05 - FIRE surveys, campus free speech, and self-censorship 13:27 - Hiring bias and the 2022 survey on conservative applicants 16:01 - Speaker protest, free speech, and the role of FIRE 18:23 - Does academic bias actually totalize student outcomes? 20:00 - The student studies: 3,900 students and blind grading 22:41 - Administrative bloat and the structural incentives of universities 23:38 - Peer effects versus professor effects on student attitudes 25:23 - College may increase tolerance more than it changes ideology 27:56 - The hiring problem is real even if student indoctrination is weak 29:55 - Field differences: humanities and social sciences versus STEM 31:06 - Conservative schools, founding missions, and open alignment 34:21 - New College of Florida as a reactionary mirror image 36:32 - Liberal students on right-leaning campuses and openness to dissent 40:00 - If students are not being converted, why does the divide keep growing? 42:14 - Self-sorting, the diploma gap, and ideological clustering 43:55 - Education, voting shifts, and the 2024 college divide 46:16 - Elite status, social capital, and overproduction of degree holders 47:50 - Declining trust in science, academia, and mainstream media 49:17 - Counter-hegemonic pressure and the totalization cycle 50:29 - Why perception matters more than the underlying reality 53:20 - The real divide may be partisanship itself 54:46 - Why conspiracy explanations are less useful than behavior effects 56:05 - Steel-manning the purpose of the academy 57:44 - Healthy disagreement versus self-sealed institutions 58:15 - Where the conversation may go next: media, culture, and entertainment 1:03:25 - Science, research, and academia as the engine of epistemology 1:06:05 - Educational financing and the totalization triad 1:08:16 - The blind men and the elephant: partial views of the same reality 1:09:35 - Final conclusion: skewed institutions, weak evidence of direct indoctrination Support our work by subscribing to our Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/c/AsynchronyPodcast and get access to detailed analyses for every episode.

  7. Sep 1

    Episode 31 - Credentials Please - Meritocracy or Gatekeeping

    In this episode, Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley explore the complex dynamics of credentialism, elite overproduction, and systemic evolution. They analyze how these factors influence societal structures, political landscapes, and the concept of meritocracy, offering insights into the mechanisms driving societal change. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the discussion on societal systems 01:52 The role of agreement and divergence in societal beliefs 03:55 Credentialism and the professional managerial class 07:00 Historical roots of credentialing and elite formation 12:00 The influence of Burnham's managerial revolution 19:56 Overproduction of elites and societal destabilization 30:07 Mirror images: Left vs. right perspectives on credentialing 40:00 The systemic nature of credentialing and systemic inversion 50:04 The role of systemic metrics and Goodhart's Law 59:59 The impact of credentialing on professions and public trust 01:09:57 Potential solutions and systemic protections 01:14:59 Conclusion and call for ongoing conversation Support our work by subscribing to our Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/c/AsynchronyPodcast and get access to detailed analyses for every episode.

  8. Aug 25

    Episode 30 - Common Ground - Interview with Wesley Warshawer

    Fulbright Scholar Wesley Warshawer shares his journey of traveling across America during COVID to understand the true nature of regional divisions and commonalities. This episode explores how direct conversations and travel can bridge political and cultural divides, revealing that beneath surface differences, many Americans share core values. 00:00 Introduction to the episode and guest Wesley Warshawer 01:59 Wesley's background and what attracted him to the podcast 04:00 Wesley's journey across rural and conservative America 06:50 Initial perceptions versus reality of regional differences 10:01 The importance of approaching conversations with curiosity 13:10 How travel during COVID shaped Wesley's perspectives 20:14 Shared morals and values across political divides 24:53 The power of direct, personal conversations 29:52 Misconceptions fueled by media and stereotypes 35:02 Lessons learned from international travel and cultural differences 44:55 The importance of understanding ignorance versus malice 49:46 How travel reveals the common human experience 59:57 The role of framing and perception in political discourse 70:04 Reflections on COVID's impact on perceptions of safety and society 74:53 The hope for unity based on shared values and morals 76:52 Closing thoughts: the importance of open dialogue and curiosity Support our work by subscribing to our Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/c/AsynchronyPodcast and get access to detailed analyses for every episode.

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A podcast featuring regular discussions between a bleeding-heart liberal and a three-time Trump voter. We explore where our perspectives diverge and where they come together. If you are expecting name calling and acrimony, this might not be for you. If, however, you want to better understand the divisions that are causing so much stress in our world today, then you might feel right at home. Subscribe today to join the conversation and help us be a part of the solution rather than a reason for the problem.

Information

  • Creator
    Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    41
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley
  • Show Website
    Asynchrony Podcast