AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers

Ron Drescher

AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers delivers practical, no-nonsense guidance on how attorneys can use artificial intelligence tools in their law practices — right now. This podcast is for practicing lawyers who want real-world answers, not hype. Each episode focuses on clear, understandable explanations of AI tools that can help attorneys work more efficiently, communicate more effectively, and make better business decisions — without requiring technical expertise or coding knowledge. We cover topics such as: • Using AI responsibly and ethically in legal practice • Drafting, research, summarization, and document review tools • Client communication and intake automation • Practice management efficiencies • Emerging AI platforms relevant to law firms • Real examples attorneys can apply immediately Whether you are a solo practitioner, small-firm attorney, or part of a larger practice, this podcast is designed to help you understand what AI can — and cannot — do for lawyers today. No futurism. No speculation. Just practical tools for practicing lawyers. Hosted by Ron Drescher

  1. 3d ago

    Episode 017 Training AI to Think Like Your Practice

    Show Notes What are you actually doing with AI — and does it work? Ron and Heather put their tools down long enough to talk about what they've been building with them. This isn't a roundup of tools you might try. It's an inside look at two practitioners who have spent serious hours creating AI-powered workflows for their own legal and legal-adjacent businesses — and what those projects revealed about where AI is actually useful for law firms right now. In this episode: Heather's report from the Maryland Legal Summit — how attorney AI adoption shifted dramatically in a single year, and what the fear conversation looks like nowWhy hallucination is more than a citation problem — the 21 ways AI can corrupt a legal brief, from wrong standards of proof to mutated judicial languageHeather's 11-module Bankruptcy Paralegal Course, built with AI, including a Claude Code-built floating chatbot trained on the course contentHow Heather's paralegal team uses Gemini inside Google Sheets to auto-generate and schedule weekly client status reports — eliminating a manual step entirelyRon's markdown workflow system for podcast post-production — built in Claude, portable to any AI environmentRon's Case Assessment Pack: a deep-dive workflow that turns a client intake recording into a preliminary liquidation analysis, exemption review, and client-ready deliverableThis week's Practice Signal — a 9th-year BigLaw associate terrified about making partner and how AI could be the rainmaking engine he hasn't consideredThe FSJ breakdown for capturing firm knowledge — what Flintstones, Simpsons, and Jetsons lawyers each need to do right now to prepare for the agentic AI eraWe also discuss: OWLL, the recording app Ron just downloaded — and why he thinks lawyers should be recording everythingOtter.ai as the baseline for meeting intelligence, and how Ron's workflow pack goes furtherThe difference between using AI as a Google machine versus as a strategic collaboratorWhy opposing counsel — not the filing attorney — is catching most hallucinated citations right nowHarvey and Legora showing up at the Maryland Legal Summit — and who's actually using themKey Takeaway AI doesn't magically understand your practice. It inherits whatever you've ingested into it. That's the core lesson from everything Ron and Heather describe — the tools work because they were loaded with domain knowledge, firm context, and real workflow logic. Without that, you get a very confident machine that doesn't know what it doesn't know. For Flintstones lawyers, the move is simple: start documenting. Write down what you do. Create checklists. Capture the firm knowledge that currently lives in your head. Simpsons lawyers need to organize that knowledge — standardize file names, define workflows, build taxonomies. Jetsons lawyers are ready to connect the systems, build repositories, and create governance. The future belongs to firms that treat data as infrastructure. Where you start matters less than whether you start. Mentioned in This Episode: Maryland Legal Summit / Maryland State Bar AssociationClaude (Anthropic)Claude CodeChatGPT (OpenAI)Gemini (Google) — including Google Sheets integrationMicrosoft CopilotHarveyLegoraOtter.aiOWLL (recording app)BusinessGPTBenchSimAI (Chris Ryan) Foundation AIReddit (Practice Signal source)Cromwell case — hallucinated citation example Heather's Bankruptcy Paralegal Course (Propel AI)Ron's AI Builds: Ground Zero episode with the Free Motion to Extend WorkflowGoogle Workspace (Sheets, Drive, Docs)info@drescherlaw.com

    44 min

  2. Jun 18

    Episode 016: Can an AI Judge Train You Better Than the Real One?

    What if you could lose your case to an AI judge tonight, so you don't lose it to a real one tomorrow? For generations, lawyers learned advocacy the hard way: draft the brief, argue the motion, get knocked down by the judge, learn why you were wrong. Litigation partner Chris Ryan built a different path. BenchSim AI lets lawyers upload their brief and opposing counsel's brief, then argue out loud in real time against an AI judge who pushes back, interrupts, and grades the performance. The question this episode keeps circling: is this the future of how lawyers get their reps in, or is the courtroom apprenticeship something AI can never actually replace? In this episode: Why COVID permanently reduced young lawyers' opportunities to argue in front of a real judge, and what that "reps problem" means for the next generation of litigatorsHow Chris built BenchSim AI as a litigation partner with no modern coding background, using "vibe coding" to go from idea to working product in about six weeksWhat vibe coding actually is, and why it's the same process as building a custom GPT, Gem, or Claude skillHow BenchSim works: upload your brief and opposing counsel's brief, choose a judge temperament (quiet, neutral, or hot bench), and argue out loudWhy BenchSim deliberately skips video rendering of the judge to avoid latency that would kill the realism of rapid-fire argumentHow the AI judge develops counterpoints from the opposing brief and is programmed to interrupt when an advocate is talking in circlesThe SOC 2 certification process BenchSim is going through before marketing to law firms, and why that matters for adoptionWhether AI will actually save lawyers time, including the "airport test" framework for evaluating whether a tool is worth the overheadUsing AI as an adversary instead of a cheerleader — prompting it to argue against your own complaint or brief before opposing counsel doesThe Flintstones/Simpsons/Jetsons breakdown of how to stress-test a brief at every level of AI adoptionWe also discuss: Chris's recent "wow moment" using AI to play defense counsel against his own drafted complaintHeather's experience having Claude Code build software overnight while she sleepsWhether AI simulation training could expand beyond litigation into bar exam prep and other legal trainingA Practice Signal segment on a deeply inappropriate mentorship moment a young associate experienced, and whether AI could have helped an older partner communicate the underlying (legitimate) concern without the inappropriate framingChris's plans for BenchSim's feature roadmap, including potential expansion into opening statements and direct examination practiceKey Takeaway Availability is not authority, and a simulation is not a verdict. BenchSim doesn't tell a lawyer whether they'll win or lose; it tells them where their argument is weak before a real judge finds out for them. That distinction matters. The value isn't in the AI replacing judgment, it's in creating reps that don't exist anymore because courtrooms don't generate them the way they used to. This episode lands differently depending on where you sit on the FSJ spectrum. A Flintstones lawyer can start by asking any AI tool to summarize their argument and flag weaknesses. A Simpsons lawyer can go further, prompting AI to act as opposing counsel and attack the brief. A Jetsons lawyer is already running full bench simulations, treating AI as an adversary that prepares them for the real fight rather than a cheerleader that tells them what they want to hear. Mentioned in This Episode: BenchSim AI (benchsimai.com)Taft (Taft Stettinius & Hollister)HarveyLegoraAnthropic Claude / Claude CodeChatGPTReddit (Practice Signal segment source)MPRE (Multistate Professional Responsibility Examination)info@drescherlaw.com

    45 min

  3. Jun 12 ·  Bonus

    AI Builds: Ground Zero

    Are "build an AI agent in 20 minutes" ads lying to you?  Ron spent way more than 12 hours trying to find out. Ron set out to build the simplest possible AI legal workflow — a motion to extend time to file bankruptcy schedules — and discovered that "easy" and "AI-assisted" don't always mean the same thing. In this episode: Why Ron decided to test AI workflow-building himself instead of buying a courseThe 10-step workflow development cycle ChatGPT walked him through, from defining objectives to platform optimizationTesting the same workflow across Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini, and CopilotWhy Google Docs + Gemini unexpectedly produced the best output of any platform testedWhy Copilot's deep integration with Word actually made it harder to use, not easierChatGPT's pushback on regenerating an entire document — and the hospital-acquired-infection analogy Ron uses to explain AI "drift"The lesson that mature AI users isolate and fix specific problems instead of regenerating whole documentsWhy Ron avoided using Claude for this project due to a prior usage-limit experience on the Pro tierThe "airport test" from Ron's prior Field Note, Confessions of an AI Hallucinator, and how it applies to building workflowsThe free "Motion to Extend Lite" workflow Ron is releasing publiclyWe also discuss: How persistent AI workflows (skills, agents, StrongSuit-style systems) represent a brand-new product categoryThe decision points Ron had to map for an "omnibus" extension workflow covering any deadline typeQuality control checks built into the workflow — missing dates, missing deadlines, missing cause languageHow Ron accidentally discovered this entire approach through his own podcast post-production processWhy bare-bones bankruptcy petitions create the exact problem this workflow solvesThe risk of inconsistent details (names, dates, captions) when reusing forms across cases — and how AI reduces that riskKey Takeaway Building a workflow that actually works — across platforms, with minimal user friction, passing real-world testing — is a fundamentally different job than writing a clever prompt. The platform you choose matters as much as what you ask it to do, and the AI tool that's "supposed" to be best for the job (Copilot in Word, Claude for heavy drafting) isn't always the one that delivers. For Flintstones lawyers, this episode is proof that a usable AI workflow can exist without them building anything — Ron's free download does the work. Simpsons lawyers will recognize the platform-testing process as the real work of AI adoption. And Jetsons lawyers will appreciate the granular lesson on regeneration risk and isolating fixes rather than reprocessing entire documents. Mentioned in This Episode ChatGPTClaude (Pro tier)Google Gemini (Google Docs integration, Enterprise tier)Microsoft CopilotStrongSuitConfessions of an AI Hallucinator (prior Field Note episode — airport test)Team Accelerator (Ron's bankruptcy training course)Motion to Extend Lite (free workflow download)info@drescherlaw.com

    24 min

  4. Jun 8 ·  Bonus

    Field Note: Can Apple Intelligence Pass the File Cabinet Test?

    SHOW NOTES NOTE: The File Cabinet Test is used to determine whether AI can discern the contents of every file in a connected drive. The star of Apple's WWDC 2026? Apple Intelligence. Apple announced how Apple Intelligence is being incorporated into Siri. This prompts us to ask: Can Apple Intelligence finally make workflow automation accessible to ordinary lawyers? In this episode: Why Apple's AI strategy isn't about building the smartest model — it's about removing frictionHow natural language Shortcuts could lower the barrier to automation for lawyers who've never written a line of codeWhether iCloud can finally compete with Google Drive and OneDrive as an AI-connected file systemApple's private cloud compute architecture and why privacy is not the same as privilegeWhy the real story from WWDC 2026 may be the democratization of workflow automationWe also discuss: Ron's history as an Apple fanboy since the 1980s — and why this keynote actually got his attentionSteve Jobs' "best camera" line and what it means for AI adoptionRon's existing Claude-based podcast workflow as a real-world example of what natural language Shortcuts could replicateThe fact that none of these features have shipped yet — these are observations, not a reviewSiri's rebranding struggle and Apple's decision to stick with the name despite years of ridiculeKey Takeaway The biggest AI story from WWDC 2026 isn't that Apple built the smartest AI. It's that Apple appears to be trying to make AI invisible — woven directly into the operating system rather than siloed in a separate app or chatbot (although there will be a stand-alone chat style Siri app). If natural language Shortcuts works the way it was demonstrated, lawyers may be able to build automation workflows simply by describing what they want in plain English. That's not a Jetsons story. That's a Simpsons story — and maybe even a Flintstones story. Prompting is useful, but workflows are transformational. If Apple pulls this off, the gap between lawyers who automate and lawyers who don't may finally start to close. Mentioned in This Episode: Apple IntelligenceWWDC 2026Shortcuts (Apple)SiriiCloudFinderGemini (Google)ClaudeChatGPTGoogle DriveOneDrive / MicrosoftApple Private Cloud ComputeThe File Cabinet Test (from Episode 007 FolderMania)info@drescherlaw.com

    9 min

  5. Jun 5

    Episode 015: The Last Flintstones Lawyer

    Most conversations about AI and legal writing focus on the tools. This one focuses on the lawyers. What does a Flintstones lawyer actually do on Monday morning after they've finally decided to move? What does a Simpsons lawyer do when they discover their favorite tool isn't safe for client data? And what happens when the question isn't whether to adopt AI — but whether you'll survive professionally if you don't? Ron sits down with co-host Heather Gardner and Maryland attorney and legal educator Donna Mandl to work through the questions practicing lawyers are actually asking — the ones that never make it into the marketing decks. In this episode: Why a Flintstones lawyer's first move should be calling their Westlaw or Lexis rep — not downloading a new appWhy Heather recommends Enterprise ChatGPT as the right entry point for lawyers handling client informationThe "Claude as cleanup hitter" workflow: how to keep confidential work in a secure tool and bring the output to Claude for draftingGemini's hidden advantage — and why most lawyers are using it wrongThe hallucination problem everyone's talking about — and why fake citations aren't the real crisisThe subtler risk: cases that exist but don't say what AI claims they say, and standards of review that get quietly swappedDonna's paralegal education pivot — from policing AI use to training students to audit what AI producesRon's prediction: by end of this decade, there will be no more Flintstones-level lawyersWe also discuss: What Heather and Donna are presenting at the Maryland State Bar Association's Legal Summit panel — Ethics, Accuracy, and Efficiency: AI in Legal WritingWhy judges are getting frustrated with both pro se AI filings and inaccurate AI-assisted briefs from lawyersRon's Claude experiment: feeding Claude its own 21 hallucination types and asking how many the new model would fix (14 of 21 — 7 remain hard)The FSJ-client alignment theory: Flintstones clients are disappearing, and Flintstones lawyers will have to followFSJ-segmented follow recommendations: Dan Block (Flintstones), Ruben Hassid (Simpsons), Rich Rodgers (Jetsons)The Practice Signal segment: can AI help a burned-out workers' comp lawyer find a new career?Key Takeaway The governance question for legal AI isn't philosophical anymore — it's a billing-line decision. Whether it's a $1,400-a-year Claude Enterprise commitment or a workflow choice about which tool sees client data, the lawyers who figure out the tiers will outpace the ones still treating a free-tier tool as a research platform. Availability is not authority — and neither is a consumer account. Flintstones lawyers who hear this episode have a clear Monday-morning move. Simpsons lawyers who've fallen for Claude but balked at the enterprise price now have a workaround. And Jetsons lawyers will recognize the gap is widening faster than most of their colleagues realize. Heather said it best: prompting got us from Flintstones to Simpsons. Learning to think and collaborate with AI is what takes you to Jetsons. Mentioned in This Episode Heather Gardner — co-host, AI Tools for Practicing LawyersDonna Mandl — Maryland attorney; legal educator, Community College of Baltimore County (LinkedIn)Shaun Koenig — Maryland attorney, MSBA Legal Summit panelist (LinkedIn)Maryland State Bar Association Legal Summit — Ethics, Accuracy, and Efficiency: AI in Legal Writing panelChatGPT (OpenAI) — free tier and Enterprise tierClaude (Anthropic) — Pro tier and Enterprise tierClaude Code (Anthropic)HarveyGoogle Gemini — consumer and Enterprise ($36/month) tiersWestlaw (Thomson Reuters)LexisNexisFastcaseRich Rodgers — prior guest, Episode 014; founder, StartupTechLaw (LinkedIn)Dave Block — legal AI commentator; recommended follow for Flintstones lawyers (LinkedIn)Ruben Hassid — Claude evangelist; recommended follow for Simpsons lawyers (LinkedIn)Field Note: 21 Ways AI Can Hallucinate in Your Legal BriefField Note: Tiers of the Clown Mezu v. Mezu, Maryland Appellate Court No. 361 (2025)info@drescherlaw.com

    38 min

  6. Jun 1 ·  Bonus

    Field Note: Tiers Of The Clown

    The question everyone is asking is wrong. When lawyers debate which AI tier is "smarter," they're arguing about a label — and labels end analysis. The better question isn't which tier is best. It's what capabilities am I actually buying, and whether those capabilities match the task in front of you. Ron's File Cabinet Test experiments proved this the hard way: Enterprise-tier AI passed tests his Plus account failed. But when it came time to brainstorm a podcast episode, he went right back to Plus. Not because it was smarter. Because it knew him. In this episode: Why "smarter" is a label that ends analysis instead of starting itThe six capability categories that actually differentiate AI tiers: context window, retrieval, usage limits, connectors, memory, and governanceHow Ron's File Cabinet Test revealed a material performance gap between Plus and Enterprise environmentsWhy the best AI tier is the one whose capabilities and accumulated context match the task — not the one with the highest price pointWhy governance and capability are different things, and why you need bothThe framework for evaluating AI tiers that survives even when pricing, features, and model names changeWe also discuss: How a Reddit thread about AI tiers triggered Ron's thinking on this episodeWhy Ron returns to his Plus account for podcast brainstorming even after seeing Enterprise outperform itThe companion handout for this episode (and why it may already be partially obsolete)How ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini package the same core capabilities in different waysThe analogy of the context window as the size of an AI's deskKey Takeaway Stop asking which AI is smartest. Start asking which capabilities matter for the task at hand. Retrieval isn't reasoning. Governance isn't performance. Context is accumulated over time, and a tool that knows your practice may outperform a more capable tool that doesn't. The best tier is the one aligned with what you're actually trying to do. For Flintstones lawyers, this episode removes the paralysis. You don't have to figure out which AI won. For Simpsons lawyers who've already paid for something, this is the framework for deciding whether they bought the right tier — or just the most expensive one. Jetsons lawyers will recognize the capability taxonomy immediately and probably already live by it. Mentioned in This Episode ChatGPT (OpenAI)Claude (Anthropic)Gemini (Google)Heather Gardner (co-host, Enterprise environment)File Cabinet Test (Ron's benchmark framework)Folder Mania experimentsThree-Legged Stool (compliance framework — see Field Note: Building the Stool — How to Implement the AI Discovery Standards)Flintstones/Simpsons/Jetsons FrameworkCompanion handout (available at lawyeraitoolkit.com/deliverables)Redditinfo@drescherlaw.com

    10 min

  7. May 28

    Episode 014: Billable Hours and the AI Native Law Firm

    SHOW NOTES  Is the billable hour a liability you're voluntarily handing to your clients — and is AI finally giving lawyers a way out? Rich Rodgers has been building AI-native legal tools since before most lawyers knew what a large language model was. He's a practicing startup attorney, a four-time founder, and the creator of Start Legal — an AI platform designed to give founders a running start on legal work before they ever engage counsel. This episode isn't about whether AI will replace lawyers. It's about whether lawyers who refuse to adapt will replace themselves. In this episode: How Rich Rodgers built Start Legal out of 20+ custom GPTs originally created for his own clients at Startup Tech LawWhy Rich charges $10,000 to review AI-generated client contracts — and why no one has ever taken him up on itThe "Attorney Assist" model: how Start Legal pairs AI-generated documents with on-demand attorney review starting at $150 for 30 minutesWhat "AI-native law firm" actually means — and why it's harder to define than the people throwing the phrase around on LinkedIn let onThe argument for scrapping the billable hour: if AI cuts a 5-hour task to 5 minutes, does the client owe you for the hours you didn't spend?Rich's AI-generated invoicing workflow — how he wakes up on the 1st of every month with all client invoices already built and ready to sendThe Delaware ruling allowing corporations and other artificial entities to vote in certain municipal elections — and what it might mean for corporate governance documentsA concrete FSJ roadmap: what Flintstones-, Simpsons-, and Jetsons-level lawyers should actually do nextWe also discuss: The em-dash problem: how a punctuation mark became a tell for AI-generated text (and Ron's personal defense of it)Whether AI-native practice is more natural in transactional work than litigation — and where the limits actually areThe UK firm licensed to practice law as an AI — and the startup firm handling traffic tickets with no human attorneyWhether Flintstones lawyers should only try to serve Flintstones clients, or whether tech alignment between lawyer and client mattersWhy Rich thinks the next generation of clients will arrive already fluent in Claude and GPT — and what that means for practices that aren't readyKey Takeaway Availability is not authority — and it's not a business model either. Clients are already arriving with AI-drafted contracts, AI-researched questions, and AI-generated documents they believe are finished products. The lawyers who treat that as a threat are the ones charging $10,000 for a GPT contract review as a way of saying no. The lawyers who treat it as an opportunity are building the tools, setting the terms, and staying in the loop on their own conditions. The Flintstones lawyer's first move isn't to become a Jetsons lawyer overnight. It's to take whatever templates, clauses, and hard-won knowledge are sitting in a file cabinet — or a Microsoft Word folder — and start turning them into something that works for clients instead of just for the file. The Simpsons lawyer who's already prompting should be connecting those prompts to the operational infrastructure: billing, CRM, invoicing. The Jetsons lawyer is already doing what Rich is doing. The question for everyone else is how long the gap keeps widening. Mentioned in This Episode Rich Rodgers — https://www.linkedin.com/in/richrodgers360/Start Legal — https://startlegal.com/Startup Tech Law — https://www.startuptechlaw.com/Claude (Anthropic) — https://claude.ai/ChatGPT / OpenAI GPT Store — https://chatgpt.com/gptsinfo@drescherlaw.com

    40 min

  8. May 26 ·  Bonus

    Workflow Options: Claude for Legal and Strongsuit

    Workflow Options: From Prompts to Presets Every lawyer who has ever stared at a blank prompt box knows the feeling. AI promised to change how legal work gets done — but a single chatbox isn't a workflow. The legal AI world is splitting in two: enterprise ecosystems building choreographed plugin infrastructure, and vertical tools purpose-built for specific practice areas. The real question isn't which AI is smartest. It's which platform removes the most friction for your practice. In this episode: Why the AI world is moving from one-off prompting to persistent, repeatable workflow environmentsWhat connectors, APIs, MCPs, plugins, and skills actually mean — and how they differ from each otherWhat Claude for Legal launched: 22 connectors, 12 plugins, and MCP architecture designed for enterprise legal environmentsWhy Claude for Legal is largely out of reach for solo and small firm lawyers — and why that's not necessarily a problemWhat StrongSuit is, how its divorce and family law workflow presets work, and what "blank prompt box anxiety" means for practicing lawyersHow Markdown (.md) workflow files work, why they're portable across frontier AI tools, and how Ron built his ownWe also discuss: Why Consumer Claude Pro is not three-legged stool compliant for confidential client dataThe M&A demo Anthropic ran at their Claude for Legal launch — and what it signals about their actual target marketHow enterprise platforms like Harvey, Copilot, and Gemini fit into the ecosystem trackVertical specialty tools beyond StrongSuit: Litmus.ai, Glade.ai for bankruptcyThe "blank page anxiety" finding from the big law associates episode and how presets address itKey Takeaway The AI tool that wins your practice isn't the one with the most connectors or the highest benchmark scores. It's the one that eliminates the friction between where you are and where the finished work product needs to be. Presets and persistent workflows do that in a way raw prompting never could. If you're a Simpsons lawyer — aware of AI, dabbling, maybe running isolated prompts — this episode is your map. You don't have to build enterprise infrastructure. You need to identify one workflow bottleneck in your practice and find the tool that addresses it specifically. For family law lawyers, StrongSuit may already exist. For others, a Markdown workflow file built with your AI may be closer than you think. Mentioned in This Episode Claude for Legal — Anthropic's official announcement (22+ connectors, 12 plugins, MCP architecture) StrongSuit — divorce and family law AI workflow platform Model Context Protocol (MCP) — official documentation Harvey iManage NetDocuments Thomson Reuters Co-Counsel Westlaw Free Law Project DocuSign Litmas.ai Glade.ai Gemini Microsoft Copilot Ivory Mind ChatGPT / OpenAI GPTs Google GemsPrior podcast episodes: Episode 007: Folder Mania — AI Comes to You Field Note: I Wanna Hold Your Hand — Learning AI from AI How BigLaw Associates Are Actually Using AI in Legal Drafting  info@drescherlaw.com

    23 min
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About

AI Tools for Practicing Lawyers delivers practical, no-nonsense guidance on how attorneys can use artificial intelligence tools in their law practices — right now. This podcast is for practicing lawyers who want real-world answers, not hype. Each episode focuses on clear, understandable explanations of AI tools that can help attorneys work more efficiently, communicate more effectively, and make better business decisions — without requiring technical expertise or coding knowledge. We cover topics such as: • Using AI responsibly and ethically in legal practice • Drafting, research, summarization, and document review tools • Client communication and intake automation • Practice management efficiencies • Emerging AI platforms relevant to law firms • Real examples attorneys can apply immediately Whether you are a solo practitioner, small-firm attorney, or part of a larger practice, this podcast is designed to help you understand what AI can — and cannot — do for lawyers today. No futurism. No speculation. Just practical tools for practicing lawyers. Hosted by Ron Drescher

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