Discussion with Jason Lish, CISO at Cisco, and Iain Mulholland, CISO at Salesforce. Jason Lish: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonlish/ Iain Mulholland: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iainmulholland/ Support the show and Donate to NCMEC: https://give.missingkids.org/TrustIssues Summary In this conversation, Justin Somaini engages with Jason Lish and Ian Mulholland to explore the intersection of AI and cybersecurity. They discuss the challenges and opportunities presented by AI in vulnerability remediation, the importance of understanding exploitability and reachability, and the ongoing issues of legacy code and tech debt. The conversation also delves into the role of AI in automating vulnerability assessments and remediation, the emerging concept of unit economics in security, and the future of AI in code generation and security practices. In this conversation, the speakers discuss the evolving landscape of technology security, focusing on the challenges posed by end-of-life products, the importance of securing AI production environments, and the role of agents in identity management. They explore the complexities of authorization in AI systems, the future of security functions, and the impact of automation on security workflows. Additionally, they address geopolitical considerations that affect technology security and the need for ongoing conversations in the industry. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to AI and Security Challenges 02:59 Vulnerability Remediation in the Age of AI 05:56 Understanding Exploitability and Reachability 09:05 Reducing Attack Surface and Code Hardening 11:59 Legacy Code and Tech Debt Challenges 14:47 Harnessing AI for Vulnerability Assessment 18:01 The Role of AI in Remediation and Code Quality 21:00 Unit Economics in Security 23:46 Future of AI in Code Generation and Security 26:59 Balancing Change and Stability in Software Development 37:24 Navigating End-of-Life Issues in Technology 41:18 Securing AI Production Environments 44:59 The Role of Agents in Identity Management 49:26 Challenges of Authorization in AI Agents 55:11 The Future of Security Functions and Skill Sets 61:07 The Impact of Automation on Security Workflows 67:19 Geopolitical Considerations in Technology Security Keywords AI, cybersecurity, vulnerability remediation, exploitability, reachability, attack surface, legacy code, tech debt, harnessing AI, unit economics, code generation technology, security, AI, identity management, automation, authorization, end-of-life issues, production environments, skill sets, geopolitical risks, Salesforce, Cisco