The Logic Exchange

Email Agency

At Email Agency, we’ve always believed in the power of shared knowledge and community. That’s why we’re excited to bring you candid conversations with industry leaders, practitioners, lawyers, funders and innovators who are shaping the future of performance marketing. Each episode of The Logic Exchange will dive deep into the strategies, challenges, and breakthrough moments that define successful marketing today. From optimization and conversion tactics to emerging technologies and growth frameworks, we’re covering the topics that matter most to our industry. Nick brings his unique perspecti

Episodes

  1. 1d ago

    When to Build, When to Buy: Scaling Smart Partnerships

    Last week, Andrew Klint's intake team averaged one minute and 53 seconds from a web form hitting the system to first human contact. He can quote that number down to the second because it lands in his inbox every single day. After six minutes, he'll tell you, your odds of reaching that person fall off a cliff. Most firms have no idea what their number is. Andrew leads intake and client acquisition at one of the largest Social Security disability firms in the country. When he arrived, the firm barely tracked anything. He started measuring everything: contact rate, reject rate, close rate, case acceptance. Then he built an incentive program for the intake team, and outbound calls went from 80 a day to more than 150. Not because anyone demanded it. Because people finally had a reason to care about the number. This work is also personal for him. Social Security helped his grandparents raise a child with Down syndrome, supported an uncle who was quadriplegic, and carried his own family through injuries that put him in the hospital. When he says every lead is a person going through one of the hardest stretches of their life, he's not reciting a company value. He's lived on the other side of it. The spine of this episode is one distinction: a good vendor sells you leads, a great partner helps you build a better business. Nick and Andrew dig into what that actually looks like in practice, including shared dashboards, weekly meetings nobody gets to cancel, and telling your lead vendor your real acceptance rate instead of the flattering one. They also cover his four don'ts, and the last one alone is worth the listen: never scale a broken system. ───────────────────────────────────────── GUEST ───────────────────────────────────────── Andrew Klint | Roeschke Law, LLC Intake & Client Acquisition | Social Security Disability Contact: andrew@disabilityaz.com ───────────────────────────────────────── CHAPTERS ───────────────────────────────────────── 0:00 Intro 2:32 Partner Strategy, Evaluation & Lead Origin 12:35 Lessons Learned & Ethical Sourcing 23:15 Defining Success & Real Performance Metrics 36:48 Innovation, Automation & Evolution 42:57 The Future of Legal Marketing & Case Acquisition 48:24 Leadership, Culture & Philosophy ───────────────────────────────────────── WHAT WE COVER ───────────────────────────────────────── How Andrew vets marketing and intake partners before signing anything The questions every firm should ask a lead provider: where do leads come from, who owns the data, how is consent collected His do's: invest in your people, measure everything, test constantly, document your processes His don'ts: chase volume, ignore compliance, hide bad numbers, scale broken systems Why lifetime value tells you more than cost per lead ever will Speed to contact: the six minute window, and how his team averages under two Speed to trust, and why your intake team is really a sales team Where AI belongs in intake (repetitive work) and where it doesn't (human relationships) Speed vs. compliance as regulations tighten in California and Colorado Handwritten notes mailed to employees' homes, and why culture isn't what's written on the wall His parting advice: don't try to become the biggest firm first, become the firm people trust the most ───────────────────────────────────────── THE LOGIC EXCHANGE ───────────────────────────────────────── The Logic Exchange is a podcast where marketing, growth, and innovation meet. Hosted by Nick Thompson. New episodes every two weeks. #LegalMarketing #SSDI #TheLogicExchange #LegalIntake #ClientAcquisition #LawFirmOperations #DisabilityLaw #IntakeMarketing #LegalIndustry #LawFirmGrowth

  2. Jul 9

    Scaling Volume: Modernization in Mass Tort

    Anne Andrews was 19 years old, in her nightgown, standing in a hospital at 2am telling LA Sheriff deputies they had no right to talk to anyone in her family. Her brother's friend, a USC-bound quarterback on scholarship, had just been shot by a reserve officer with a department-issued weapon. The department had lawyers there within the hour, pressing the family to sign a civil waiver while their son was still in surgery.Anne had no legal training. She just knew something was wrong, and she didn't let anyone in that room forget it.That night is how she tells the story of why she became a lawyer.More than 30 years later, she has tried major drug, device, and product liability cases; served on 20+ official tort claims committees; helped negotiate the $4.7 billion fund for Boy Scout survivors; and played a central role in the Purdue Pharma and J&J talc bankruptcies. She was also a founding supporter of the UC Irvine School of Law, has been recognized with an honorary doctorate, and continues to expand her firm in areas most people don't want to touch, including trafficking claims against religious institutions.This conversation covers a lot of ground. Anne talks about what it was like building a practice in a space where women weren't expected to succeed, what mass tort bankruptcy really requires of firms that have only ever played the trial court game, how she builds trust with survivors of sexual abuse, and what she sees when she looks at the next generation of lawyers coming into this work.It's one of the most candid conversations we've had on the show.─────────────────────────────────────────GUEST─────────────────────────────────────────Anne Andrews | Andrews & Higgins30+ years in complex litigation | Mass Tort | Bankruptcy | Survivor AdvocacyFounding supporter, UC Irvine School of LawContact: (714) 329-8242─────────────────────────────────────────CHAPTERS─────────────────────────────────────────0:00 Intro37:14 Leadership in High-Stakes Mass Tort1:00:26 Sex Abuse Litigation & Survivor Advocacy1:24:24 Scaling Volume Without Losing the Human Being1:33:39 The Future of Mass Tort, Bankruptcy & Survivor Representation1:39:22 Legacy, Impact & Advice for the Next Generation─────────────────────────────────────────WHAT WE COVER─────────────────────────────────────────The story behind why Anne became a lawyer (it starts with a gunshot at 2am)What it was like building a firm and a reputation when women weren't expected to be thereThe football vs. soccer analogy: why trial skills don't transfer to bankruptcy courtWhat separates firms that are ready for mass tort leadership from firms chasing volumeHow she thinks about scaling litigation without letting clients become inventoryWhat plaintiff firms should know before they find themselves in a bankruptcy proceedingHow to build real trust with survivors of sexual abuse and gather evidence without causing more harmWhy trafficking claims against religious institutions are the next frontier in this workHer role in founding UC Irvine School of Law and why investing in legal education is personalWhat she wants younger attorneys to take from her career─────────────────────────────────────────THE LOGIC EXCHANGE─────────────────────────────────────────The Logic Exchange is a podcast where marketing, growth, and innovation meet. Hosted by Nick Thompson. New episodes every two weeks.#LegalMarketing #MassTorts #LawFirmLeadership #TheLogicExchange #SurvivorAdvocacy #PlaintiffsBar #MassTortBankruptcy #TrialLawyer #LegalIndustry #WomenInLaw

  3. Jun 16

    Owning the Funnel: From Vendor to Vertical Integration

    Brian Vogel has spent 20 years looking under the hood of law firm operations. Not as a consultant who drops a slide deck and leaves, but as someone who gets into the intake workflows, the case management systems, the handoffs nobody wants to own, and figures out why good marketing spend keeps producing bad results. He holds the role of VP of Growth & Partnerships at both Spear Consulting Group and Legal Association Management, and he sits on the board of the National Legal Vendors Association, where he chairs the compliance committee.  What comes through in this conversation is something worth sitting with: technology doesn't fix broken processes. You can have the best marketer in the space and still get a 2 to 1 return because intake is slow, because nobody's tracking cost per compensable, because the firm signed up for a campaign before it was operationally ready to run one. Brian has seen that play out enough times that "get an audit" is his answer to almost every question about modernizing a firm's marketing and intake. This episode covers how he vets marketers before committing budget, what a proper campaign test actually requires, where AI is genuinely useful versus where firms are just trusting it too fast, and what the compliance-first argument really means when the plaintiff's bar is already under pressure from tort reform. If your marketing results are inconsistent and you're not sure whether the problem is the campaign or the firm, this one will help you figure that out. ───────────────────────────────────────── GUEST ───────────────────────────────────────── Brian Vogel | Spear Consulting & Legal Association Management bvogel@spear.law | (713) 788-9008 ───────────────────────────────────────── CHAPTERS ───────────────────────────────────────── 0:00 Intro 2:13 Partner Strategy, Evaluation & Lead Origin 12:05 Lessons Learned & Ethical Sourcing 32:31 Defining Success & Real Performance Metrics 41:49 Innovation, Automation & Evolution 52:34 The Future of Legal Marketing & Claimant Acquisition 57:19 Leadership, Culture & Philosophy ───────────────────────────────────────── WHAT WE COVER ───────────────────────────────────────── How Brian vets marketing and intake partners before spending a dollar What a proper campaign test actually requires (and the minimum case count to make it meaningful) Why cost per compensable is the KPI most firms never look at Where volume-based scaling breaks down and how to set exit ramps before you need them What an operational audit finds that marketing reports never will How AI is changing intake analysis and ad placement, and where to be skeptical Speed vs. compliance: his take, and why the two aren't as opposed as people think What the NLVA is doing to push bad actors out of the space His single piece of advice for any firm trying to modernize marketing and intake today ───────────────────────────────────────── THE LOGIC EXCHANGE ───────────────────────────────────────── The Logic Exchange is a podcast where marketing, growth, and innovation meet. Hosted by Nick Thompson. New episodes every two weeks. #LegalMarketing #MassTorts #LawFirmOperations #TheLogicExchange #IntakeMarketing #LegalLeadership #TCPA #LegalIndustry #CaseAcquisition #NVA

  4. May 21

    Inside the Business of Law: Leading Through Change

    The Logic Exchange – Hunter ShkolnikMost conversations about legal marketing focus on getting clients in the door. Hunter Shkolnik spends a lot of time thinking about what happens when the whole system is under pressure.Hunter is a nationally recognized trial lawyer who has spent his career in some of the most complex mass tort litigation in the country. At Napoli Shkolnik, he has driven discovery and trial strategy across major environmental, pharmaceutical, and medical device cases, including the opioid crisis and talc-related claims, where he served on national settlement committees and helped shape outcomes at a scale most litigators never see.Beyond the courtroom, he has been appointed to numerous Plaintiff Steering Committees, chaired influential litigation groups, and stays active with the American Association for Justice, speaking on litigation strategy, legal ethics, and professionalism. He is a founding board member of the Trial Lawyers of Puerto Rico and a regular speaker at national conferences.That experience running high-stakes, high-volume litigation gives him a particular perspective on what breaks down when firms scale fast without the right foundation.This episode gets into the realities of managing large-scale litigation, building intake and marketing partnerships that actually hold up, and what leading through disruption looks like when the stakes are real. If growth and resilience are on your agenda for 2026, this one has substance.─────────────────────────────────────────GUEST─────────────────────────────────────────Hunter Shkolnik | Napoli ShkolnikPlaintiff Steering Committees | Opioid Crisis | TalcAmerican Association for Justice | Trial Lawyers of Puerto Rico─────────────────────────────────────────CHAPTERS─────────────────────────────────────────0:00 Intro12:15 Partner Strategy, Evaluation & Lead Origin26:24 Lessons Learned & Ethical Sourcing33:50 Defining Success & Real Performance Metrics44:57 Innovation, Automation & Evolution51:06 The Future of Legal Marketing & Case Acquisition52:14 Leadership, Culture & Philosophy─────────────────────────────────────────WHAT WE COVER─────────────────────────────────────────How Hunter vets marketing and intake partners before committingWhat separates a vendor from a strategic partner in this spaceWhat every firm should ask a marketing partner before signingThe do's and don'ts he's learned in legal marketing and intakeHow to balance volume and verification when scalingWhat ethical claimant sourcing actually requires in practiceThe metrics that separate real campaign growth from temporary liftROI evaluation beyond cost-per-signed-retainerThe underrated KPI more firms should be trackingWhat he's watching in 2026 on marketing innovationSpeed-first vs. compliance-first: where the industry is headingWhat the future of mass tort claimant acquisition looks likeLeading a legal team when the environment keeps shiftingBuilding a culture that holds growth and integrity together─────────────────────────────────────────THE LOGIC EXCHANGE─────────────────────────────────────────The Logic Exchange is a podcast where marketing, growth, and innovation meet. Hosted by Nick Thompson. New episodes every two weeks.#LegalMarketing #MassTorts #LawFirmGrowth #TheLogicExchange #LegalLeadership #IntakeMarketing #TCPA #LegalIndustry #TrialLawyer #CaseAcquisition

  5. May 13

    Inside the Business of Law - From Lead to Lifelong Client: The Retention Shift

    Most law firms measure success the moment a client signs. Ross Buntrock thinks that's where a lot of firms go wrong.Ross is a trial lawyer with 30 years in complex litigation, mass torts, and consumer protection. He grew up on a South Dakota farm, spent years on the defense side at AmLaw 100 firms, then moved to plaintiff work and now chairs the Mass Tort, Mass Arbitration, and Class Action Practice at Sweetnam Schuster & Schartz. His current cases include Roundup, Zantac, and Talc.That defense background shapes how he thinks about intake and sourcing. He's seen how these cases get picked apart from the other side, which gives him a different angle on TCPA, data privacy, and compliance than most people in this conversation have.We skip past the acquisition basics here. Ross gets into how he actually vets marketing and intake partners, where volume-based scaling tends to break down, what ethical claimant sourcing looks like when firms get it right, and why he thinks retention is the thing firms underestimate. If signed cases are your main KPI, this conversation will probably complicate that a bit.─────────────────────────────────────────GUEST─────────────────────────────────────────Ross Buntrock | Partner, Sweetnam Schuster & SchartzMass Tort, Mass Arbitration & Class Action Practice ChairRoundup | Zantac | Talc─────────────────────────────────────────CHAPTERS─────────────────────────────────────────0:00 Intro1:52 Partner Strategy, Evaluation & Lead Origin9:19 Lessons Learned & Ethical Sourcing29:37 Defining Success & Real Performance Metrics36:11 Innovation, Automation & Evolution43:12 The Future of Legal Marketing & Case Acquisition47:59 Leadership, Culture & Philosophy─────────────────────────────────────────WHAT WE COVER─────────────────────────────────────────How Ross vets marketing and intake partners before working with themWhat firms forget to ask a vendor before signingWhere volume-based scaling tends to breakWhat ethical claimant sourcing actually looks like in practiceThe metrics he uses beyond cost-per-signed-retainerWhat he's watching in 2026 on AI and claimant qualificationHis honest take on speed vs. complianceWhat mass tort acquisition looks like in a few yearsBuilding a team culture that doesn't trade integrity for growth─────────────────────────────────────────THE LOGIC EXCHANGE─────────────────────────────────────────The Logic Exchange is a podcast where marketing, growth, and innovation meet. Hosted by Nick Thompson. New episodes every two weeks.#LegalMarketing #MassTorts #LawFirmGrowth #ClientRetention #TheLogicExchange #LegalIndustry #IntakeMarketing #TCPA #LawFirm #TrialLawyer

  6. Apr 27

    Defining Success Beyond Cost per Retainer

    Defining Success Beyond Cost Per Retainer | The Logic Exchange Ep. 6 If cost per retainer is your primary success metric, this conversation will change how you think about mass tort performance. In this episode, host Nick Thompson sits down with John Ray, a name synonymous with strategy, structure, and scale in the mass tort space. With over two decades of experience and a background that includes building and selling multiple medical and pharmaceutical companies in an eight-figure transaction, John brings a perspective few in this industry can match. His firsthand knowledge of FDA regulations, product development, and how major pharma and medical device players actually operate became a game-changer when he entered the mass tort arena. What John found was a critical gap: firms lacked standardized terminology and clear, actionable metrics to evaluate opportunities and performance. What followed were frameworks and benchmarks now widely used across top mass tort firms today. Through his consulting work and his renowned four-day mass tort course, where he has trained over 1,000 attorneys, John has helped firms rethink how they measure success, assess risk, and build sustainable, profitable operations. ──────────────────────────────🎯 IN THIS EPISODE:──────────────────────────────▶ How to vet law firm, marketing, and intake partners before you commit▶ What separates a true strategic partnership from a basic vendor relationship▶ The do's and don'ts of ethical and compliant lead sourcing▶ What metrics actually differentiate real growth from temporary lift▶ How to evaluate ROI beyond cost per signed retainer▶ The one underrated KPI more firms should be tracking▶ How AI and automation are reshaping lead qualification and claimant communication▶ Whether the industry is shifting from speed-first to compliance-first scaling▶ Where mass tort case acquisition is headed as TCPA enforcement tightens▶ How to build a team culture that values both growth and integrity ──────────────────────────────⏱ CHAPTERS:──────────────────────────────00:00 Intro02:05 Partner Strategy, Evaluation & Lead Origin20:03 Lessons Learned & Ethical Sourcing29:19 Defining Success & Real Performance Metrics41:20 Innovation, Automation & Evolution50:51 The Future of Legal Marketing & Case Acquisition55:35 Leadership, Culture & Philosophy ──────────────────────────────👤 ABOUT JOHN RAY:──────────────────────────────John Ray is a mass tort strategist and consultant with over two decades of experience spanning the medical, pharmaceutical, and legal marketing industries. Before entering the mass tort space, he built and sold multiple medical and pharmaceutical companies in an eight-figure transaction, gaining deep expertise in FDA regulations and product development. He has since trained over 1,000 attorneys through his four-day mass tort course and developed the performance frameworks and benchmarks now standard across top plaintiff firms nationwide. ──────────────────────────────📻 ABOUT THE LOGIC EXCHANGE:──────────────────────────────The Logic Exchange is a podcast where marketing, growth, and innovation meet. Hosted by Nick Thompson. 🔔 Subscribe so you never miss an episode. #TheLogicExchange #MassTort #LegalMarketing #CostPerRetainer #Podcast #CaseAcquisition #TCPA #PerformanceMetrics #NickThompson #JohnRay

  7. Apr 7

    Scaling Volume: Modernization in Mass Tort

    Scaling Volume: Modernization in Mass Tort | The Logic Exchange Ep. 5 What does it really take to scale a mass tort operation without sacrificing compliance or quality? In this episode, host Nick Thompson sits down with Amie Lawson, CEO of Email Agency and LawLogic, one of the most trusted operators in legal lead generation. With over 20 years of experience across mass tort, insurance, and healthcare verticals, Amie has built a reputation for doing what most struggle to balance: growing volume while maintaining ethics, compliance, and performance. From vetting campaigns and managing partner networks to pioneering quality assurance and medical record retrieval processes, this conversation is a masterclass in what it means to modernize mass tort the right way. ───────────────────────────🎯 IN THIS EPISODE:───────────────────────────▶ How to evaluate mass tort campaigns and vet partners before you commit▶ What ethical and compliant lead sourcing actually looks like in 2026▶ Real TCPA consent, TrustedForm, and ad transparency in practice▶ The KPIs most firms are overlooking and the ones that predict real growth▶ How AI and automation are reshaping lead qualification and claimant communication▶ Where the intake and claimant acquisition landscape is heading as privacy regulations tighten▶ How to build a team culture where compliance is the standard, not just a checklist ───────────────────────────⏱ CHAPTERS:───────────────────────────00:00 Intro 03:58 Partner Strategy, Evaluation & Lead Origin 21:23 Lessons Learned & Ethical Sourcing 27:27 Defining Success & Real Performance Metrics 35:30 Innovation, Automation & Evolution 46:50 The Future of Legal Marketing & Claimant Acquisition 50:32 Leadership, Culture & Philosophy ───────────────────────────👤 ABOUT AMIE LAWSON:───────────────────────────Amie Lawson is the CEO of Email Agency and its LawLogic division, a performance marketing firm specializing in mass tort, insurance, and healthcare lead generation. With over two decades in the industry, Amie has redefined what ethical, high-volume lead generation looks like for modern law firms. ───────────────────────────📻 ABOUT THE LOGIC EXCHANGE:───────────────────────────The Logic Exchange is a podcast where marketing, growth, and innovation meet. Hosted by Nick Thompson. 🔔 Subscribe so you never miss an episode.

  8. Mar 12

    The Culture of Growth: Leadership Lessons from the Field

    What does it really take to build a culture of growth — and lead with integrity while doing it? In this episode of The Logic Exchange, host Nick Thompson sits down with Dan Austin an investor, entrepreneur, and C-level executive with 25+ years of experience building high-performing organizations across FinTech, legal marketing, eCommerce, enterprise tech, and more. Dan has held executive roles at The Home Depot, Interpublic Group (Geomentum), Vivendi Universal, TMP Worldwide, Unio Capital Partners, and Blue Modo Media. He's helped companies and family offices navigate capital markets, AI, blockchain, and emerging technologies and he brings every hard-won lesson to this conversation. ────────────────────────────── 🎯 IN THIS EPISODE: ────────────────────────────── ► What separates a true strategic partner from a basic vendor relationship ► How to vet partners and ensure compliance across channels ► What ethical and compliant lead sourcing actually looks like — and why it matters more than ever ► The metrics that tell you a campaign is truly working (beyond cost-per-signed-retainer) ► How AI and automation are reshaping lead qualification and claimant communication ► Where legal marketing is headed as TCPA enforcement and privacy regulations tighten ► How to build a culture where compliance is the standard — not just a checklist ► Leadership lessons from 25+ years in the field ────────────────────────────── 👤 ABOUT DAN AUSTIN: ────────────────────────────── Dan Austin is an investor, entrepreneur, and seasoned C-level executive with a track record of driving rapid results across multiple industries. A graduate of Sonoma State University and a former two-year baseball team captain and Academic All-American, Dan's competitive drive and leadership philosophy have defined his career at every level. ────────────────────────────── 📻 ABOUT THE LOGIC EXCHANGE: ────────────────────────────── The Logic Exchange is a podcast exploring the ideas, strategies, and leadership principles behind high-growth organizations. Hosted by Nick Thompson. 🔔 Subscribe so you never miss an episode. #TheLogicExchange #Leadership #LegalMarketing #CultureOfGrowth #MassTort #TCPA #GrowthStrategy #NickThompson #DanAustin

About

At Email Agency, we’ve always believed in the power of shared knowledge and community. That’s why we’re excited to bring you candid conversations with industry leaders, practitioners, lawyers, funders and innovators who are shaping the future of performance marketing. Each episode of The Logic Exchange will dive deep into the strategies, challenges, and breakthrough moments that define successful marketing today. From optimization and conversion tactics to emerging technologies and growth frameworks, we’re covering the topics that matter most to our industry. Nick brings his unique perspecti