The Innovative Investor Podcast: Property Debt Wealth in the Modern Era

Stephen Morel
  • 5.0 (6)
  • Entrepreneurship

The Innovative Investor Podcast is where forward-thinking investors discover the alternative real estate strategies and property debt opportunities that create lasting wealth outside the mainstream. Hosted by Stephen Morel, founder of JurisDeed and one of the nation's foremost legal experts in property debt investing, alongside co-host George W. Jackson, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer at JurisDeed, each episode delivers insider knowledge from experienced investors, fund managers, attorneys, and industry professionals who have built wealth through tax liens, distressed assets, and overlooked corners of real estate. With Stephen's 20+ years of experience in real estate title law, including creating the first tax sale title insurance product and serving as legislative commissioner for the National Tax Lien Association, combined with George's extensive background as a delinquent property tax attorney, the show brings unmatched dual perspectives to every conversation. You'll hear how investors are turning complexity into opportunity, building systems that scale across jurisdictions, and generating 12-18%+ annual returns in a market where 98% of investors never participate. Whether you're an experienced investor looking to diversify beyond traditional real estate, a high-earning professional seeking a clearer path to passive income, or an institutional player exploring alternative asset classes, you'll gain the strategies and frameworks to confidently build wealth through property debt in the modern era.

  1. Sep 2

    Building Title Confidence in Tax Sales with David Schumacher of Chicago Title NCS California — Part 2

    In the second part of their conversation on The Innovative Investor Podcast, Stephen speaks with David Schumacher, senior title underwriter for Chicago Title NCS and veteran mediator-arbitrator, about the hidden complexities and critical strategies behind tax lien and tax deed investing.  David walks us through how his early days as a claims officer and title underwriter led him to earn Harvard mediator and FINRA arbitrator credentials, skills he now leverages to guide investors through negotiation, litigation avoidance and, ultimately, successful exits. Together, Stephen and David explore why a robust exit plan is almost as important as winning an auction and how mastering the art of mediation can turn a potential courtroom battle into a collaborative settlement.  As the conversation turns to market cycles, David shares his outlook on today’s slow-burn commercial distress versus the rapid crash of 2008, explaining how maturing CMBS loans, rising cap rates and looming covenant breaches will create a wave of receiverships and bankruptcy 363 sales that ripple back into the residential tax sale arena.  He breaks down what these trends mean for portfolio liquidity, title insurability and the best ways investors can stay ahead, whether that’s building a team of specialized attorneys, partnering with experienced underwriters like Chicago Title NCS, or leveraging new due-process platforms such as JurisDeed to automate notice compliance.  By the end of the episode, you’ll understand why case law remains the ultimate “deed line” for anyone bidding on tax liens, and how combining deep title expertise with proactive negotiation tactics can transform risk into opportunity. Stephen and David close with concrete advice on assembling a winning support network, preparing for a year-of-reckoning in 2027 and keeping your investments liquid when the market shifts.  If you’re serious about turning delinquent-tax debt into long-term wealth, this episode will arm you with the insights and resources you need. Timestamps Exit Strategy Necessity in Tax Auctions – 00:00:03 Pursuing Mediator & Arbitrator Certifications in Title Insurance – 00:02:07 Leveraging Mediation/Arbitration Skills for Investor Negotiations – 00:06:55 Anticipating the Commercial Default Cycle’s Impact on Tax Sales (2027 Reckoning) – 00:13:43 Innovating Tax-Sale Due-Process & Title Solutions (Juris Deed Concept) – 00:29:14 Get in Touch with Stephen and David Schumacher Website: https://jurisdeed.com/ Waitlist: https://jurisdeed.com/waitlist JurisDeed Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/JurisDeed/61591556170042/ JurisDeed Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/19Yeuy4w22/ Stephen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmorel-jd/ David’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-schumacher-b654481b Chicago Title NCS California: https://californiancs.ctic.com/ And if you love the show, subscribe to follow it! If you're investing in Louisiana tax sales under the 2026 rules, you need legal and asset management partners who specialize in this niche: Quiet Title Litigation – TDLG (Tax Deed Legal Group) After your redemption period expires, TDLG forecloses your lien so you can recover your investment with confidence. Louisiana-licensed attorneys with deep expertise in tax sale... Chapters (00:00:00) - property tax liens(00:01:05) - What Made You Want to Become a Mediator?(00:08:23) - Real Estate: The Importance of Negotiations(00:14:20) - Commercial Real Estate: Slow Burn(00:19:20) - Undoing the Commercial Default Pipeline(00:25:24) - What Does the Tax Liens Impact?(00:28:22) - Tax Title Services: What Do We Need to Do Different in 2022(00:31:54) - Tax Lien and Title Insurance(00:33:41) - Case Law In Tax Deed & Underwriting(00:37:35) - Tax Liens: The Investment Opportunity

    Building Title Confidence in Tax Sales with David Schumacher of Chicago Title NCS California — Part 2

  2. Aug 26

    The Da Vinci of Title: David Schumacher of Chicago Title NCS California on Insuring the Uninsurable — Part 1

    In Part 1 of this conversation on The Innovative Investor Podcast, Stephen speaks with David Schumacher, National Commercial Underwriter at Chicago Title National Commercial Services in California. Together they dive into the decade-long headache investors have faced after winning a tax sale auction: untouchable title insurance.  David explains how, before his work, investors routinely found themselves unable to refinance or resell properties because no insurer would back a tax-sale title without a court-long quiet title action, months or years of legal fees standing between them and a marketable asset.  Stephen and David trace the journey back to 2000, when David left First American to found Tax Title Services and create a nationwide due-process certification program. By carefully auditing notice requirements, contacting potential claimants, and securing their acknowledgments, David crafted a common-sense alternative to expensive lawsuits. Title underwriters who once flatly refused tax-sale business began to see the wisdom in his approach: “Why not slap the beehive and see who wants to sting us?”  With that simple shift, he unlocked clear title, and the power to underwrite tax-sale property in a matter of weeks, not years, saving investors thousands per deal and transforming an entire sector. They wrap up by reflecting on how these innovations democratized access to tax-lien and tax-deed investing and set the stage for future advances in AI, streamlined due-process workflows, and broader market participation. If you’ve ever wondered why tax-sale properties have long been considered “risky” or what it takes to tilt the odds in your favor, this conversation is a masterclass in marrying legal finesse with entrepreneurial common sense.  Tune in and discover how one underwriter’s creativity solved an industry-wide bottleneck and opened the door to faster, more reliable property-debt wealth. Timestamps David’s Unconventional Underwriting Philosophy – 00:00:00 2. Title Insurance Bottleneck for Tax Lien Investors – 00:00:36 3. Founding Tax Title Services & Addressing Due Process Issues – 00:03:33 4. “Slap the Beehive” Certification as an Alternative to Quiet Title – 00:08:22 | 5. Accelerated Title Clearance Benefits for Investors – 00:11:08 Get in Touch with Stephen and David Schumacher Website: https://jurisdeed.com/ Waitlist: https://jurisdeed.com/waitlist JurisDeed Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/JurisDeed/61591556170042/ JurisDeed Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/19Yeuy4w22/ Stephen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmorel-jd/ David’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-schumacher-b654481b Chicago Title NCS California: https://californiancs.ctic.com/ And if you love the show, subscribe to follow it! If you're investing in Louisiana tax sales under the 2026 rules, you need legal and asset management partners who specialize in this niche: Quiet Title Litigation – TDLG (Tax Deed Legal Group) After your redemption period expires, TDLG forecloses your lien so you can recover your investment with confidence. Louisiana-licensed attorneys with deep expertise in tax sale law handle all litigation, notice requirements, and foreclosure proceedings. Website: www.taxdeedlegal.com Chapters (00:00:00) - Tax Lien Advice(00:00:58) - The Problem With Tax Liens & Tax Deed Money(00:01:48) - The Innovative Investor: Chicago Title(00:03:21) - Origins: Why First American Title Didn't insure default titles in(00:12:28) - Tax Deed Title Insurance(00:16:37) - Leonard's Advantage: Title Underwriting(00:23:34) - Importance of Title and Title Insurance

    The Da Vinci of Title: David Schumacher of Chicago Title NCS California on Insuring the Uninsurable — Part 1

  3. Aug 12

    Post-Pung Tax Lien Strategies with Matt Abee of Nelson Mullins Riley & Scarborough — Part 2

    In this episode of The Innovative Investor Podcast, Stephen speaks with Matt Abee, a partner at Nelson Mullins Riley & Scarborough, about the Supreme Court’s recent ruling in Pung v. Isabella County and what it means for anyone investing in tax liens, tax deeds or other distressed real-estate debt.  As part two of the deep dive, they revisit the legal drama that nearly upended the industry, unpack Matt’s immediate reactions to the opinion, and explore how the Court’s emphasis on “fairly conducted” tax sales creates new landmines, and opportunities, for investors. Along the way, Stephen and Matt compare Pung to landmark cases like Tyler, break down when just compensation must be measured by surplus proceeds versus full fair-market value, and explain why online auctions and clear public notice will soon be as critical as the lien bid itself.  Matt walks us through the baseline rule that still protects the vast majority of properly handled sales, plus the exceptional circumstances that could trigger surplus-based takings claims under 42 U.S.C. § 1983. He offers a concise playbook for tomorrow’s investor: revisit recent portfolios, shore up notice and sale procedures, lean on robust auction platforms, and enlist local counsel before chasing rock-bottom bids.  Whether you’re scaling a national tax-lien fund or making your first out-of-state purchase, this episode will help you measure and manage your risk in a post-Pung world. Timestamps Initial industry reaction and mixed feelings about the Pung ruling – 02:38 Plain-English breakdown of SCOTUS’s just-compensation decision (surplus vs. fair market value) – 05:12 Unanswered questions on what makes a tax sale “fairly conducted” – 07:47 Investor takeaways: assessing risk, doing due diligence, and portfolio review – 18:24 State-by-state safe-haven strategies for tax-sale investing post-Pung – 25:41 Get in Touch with Stephen and Matt Abee Website: https://jurisdeed.com/ Waitlist: https://jurisdeed.com/waitlist JurisDeed Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/JurisDeed/61591556170042/ JurisDeed Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/19Yeuy4w22/ Stephen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmorel-jd/ Matt's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-a-abee-3631832b/ Nelson Mullins: https://www.nelsonmullins.com/ Cases Mentioned Pung v. Isabella: https://www.nelsonmullins.com/insights/alerts/additional_nelson_mullins_alerts/all/u-s-supreme-court-hears-arguments-in-pung-v-isabella-county Tyler v. Hennepin County: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/22-166_8n59.pdf Mennonite Board of Missions v. Adams: https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/462/791 And if you love the show, subscribe to follow it! If you're investing in Louisiana tax sales under the 2026 rules, you need legal and asset management partners who specialize in this niche: Quiet Title Litigation – TDLG (Tax Deed Legal Group) After your redemption period expires, TDLG forecloses your lien so you can recover your investment with confidence. Louisiana-licensed attorneys with deep expertise... Chapters (00:00:00) - Should You Care About Tax Liens?(00:01:41) - The Tax Liens Argument(00:03:06) - More Litigation on Tax Lien Sales?(00:05:46) - Supreme Court: Just Compensation and Fair Market Value(00:09:56) - When Do You Value a Tax Sale Property?(00:13:00) - On the Takings of Property(00:15:26) - Top Lawmakers: Property Rights Ruling(00:18:29) - Does Pong Impact Property Tax Sales?(00:20:03) - Do You Have Personal Liability For Tax Liability?(00:25:12) - Tax Liens and Tyler and Pung(00:27:52) - Probable Cause: Fair Tax Sale Cases(00:33:20) - Pung Impact on Property Sales & Investment(00:36:26) - Tax Liens: Where Would I Put My Money?(00:45:00) - The Pong Case: What's the Closing Line of Real(00:46:50) - Tax Liens: Where the Money Is in the Industry

    Post-Pung Tax Lien Strategies with Matt Abee of Nelson Mullins Riley & Scarborough — Part 2

  4. May 20

    Building the Tax Sale Flywheel with Brian Seidensticker — Part 2 - #11

    In the second part of their conversation on The Innovative Investor Podcast, Stephen speaks with Brian Seidensticker about the evolution, and revolution, of the tax lien and deed markets.  Brian walks us through his early efforts with Vision Trade Desk, launched in 2012 to broker secondary market portfolios of tax liens at the height of post-recession “gluttony” of supply. Fast-forward to today, and Brian explains why most secondary trades have dried up: sellers know their buyers and middlemen simply aren’t needed unless you can automate the transaction and overcome per-lien cost hurdles.  From there, the conversation shifts to Mountain North Capital, Brian’s passive tax-deed fund for accredited investors. He outlines how Mountain North partners with boots-on-the-ground operators under a profit-share model, supercharges selection with historical data and AI analytics, and has structured three fund rounds, including a levered vehicle that brings bank-like financing to smaller operators.  The episode also tackles seismic legal and regulatory shifts. Brian and Stephen unpack the looming Supreme Court decision in Pung v. Isabella County and debate whether a remand on “just compensation” will cripple pure tax-deed strategies or spur counties to pause auctions and redefine market value.  They touch on Louisiana’s new 2026 tax-sale law, hailed as a “perfect solution” that balances investor returns with owner protections, and chart how AI is reshaping property-level underwriting, title clarity and auction forecasts.  Throughout, Brian and Stephen stress that the sandbox is big enough for multiple platforms, and that education, transparency and smart technology partnerships are key to bringing more investors into this $20-plus billion market. Timestamps Secondary Market Trends for Tax Liens – 00:00:00 Mountain North Capital’s Passive Tax Deed Investment Model – 00:15:00 Potential Impact of Pung v. Isabella County Supreme Court Ruling – 00:35:00 Louisiana’s 2026 Tax Sale Law Overhaul and Industry Implications – 00:50:00 Integrating AI into Tax Sale Investing – 01:05:00 Get in Touch with Stephen and Brian Seidensticker Website: https://jurisdeed.com/ Waitlist: https://jurisdeed.com/waitlist JurisDeed Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/JurisDeed/61591556170042/ JurisDeed Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/19Yeuy4w22/ Stephen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmorel-jd/ Brian’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-seidensticker-90117021/ Tax Sale Resources: https://www.taxsaleresources.com/ Last Best Partners: https://www.lastbestpartners.com/ Mount North Capital: https://www.lastbestpartners.com/companies/mount-north-capital Additional Resources Mentioned Episode with Matt Abee: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ahead-of-the-ruling-nelson-mullins-matt-abee-on-pung/id1877715388?i=1000758668745 And if you love the show, subscribe to follow it! If you're investing in Louisiana tax sales under the 2026 rules, you need legal and asset management partners who specialize in this niche: Quiet Title Litigation – TDLG (Tax Deed Legal Group)...

    Building the Tax Sale Flywheel with Brian Seidensticker — Part 2 - #11

  5. May 13

    Systems Thinking in Tax Sales: Brian Seidensticker on Solving Big Data Challenges — Part 1 - #10

    In Part 1 of this conversation on The Innovative Investor Podcast, Stephen speaks with Brian Seidensticker, a former aerospace engineer turned tax-sale industry innovator who is currently the co-founder of Last Best Partners and CEO of Tax Sale Resources.  Brian shares how a “holy-crap” moment when he received a notice that his own home in Montana could be lost to unpaid taxes, pushed him out of missile defense and into fix-and-flip, and ultimately into building the country’s most comprehensive tax-sale data platform.  He tells Stephen about launching Tax Sale Resources as a side project, stepping away when it outpaced his own investing, and then returning years later as co-founder of Last Best Partners and Mountain North Capital, where he now deploys that same systems-engineering mindset to manage millions of distressed‐property opportunities each year.  Together, they explore the unique lens a systems engineer brings to tax-sale investing, zooming out to see every piece of the puzzle, from jurisdiction layers and auction calendars to parcel details, and then zooming in to automate what used to require teams of fifty analysts at dozens of county websites.  Brian explains how Tax Sale Resources aggregates data from over 5,000 jurisdictions, tracks 9,000+ auctions and 2–3 million parcels weekly, and lets investors filter for precise asset classes (yes, even bowling alleys nationwide) with a few clicks. By unifying state, county, and municipal complexities into one intuitive platform, Brian shows how modern investors can go from hundreds of tedious Excel look-ups to targeted, scalable portfolios—freeing up time to focus on strategy rather than data entry.  Whether you’re just starting delinquent‐tax investing or looking to scale up your fund, this conversation offers a roadmap for leveraging technology, data and process design to unlock the wealth in property debt. Timestamps Brian’s journey from aerospace engineer to tax-sale industry leader – 04:00 Launch and growth of the Tax Sale Resources data platform – 11:30 Applying systems-engineering thinking to real-estate investing – 18:15 Overcoming county- and state-level data fragmentation – 24:20 How the platform boosts investor speed and accuracy – 29:50 Get in Touch with Stephen and Brian Seidensticker Website: https://jurisdeed.com/ Waitlist: https://jurisdeed.com/waitlist JurisDeed Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/JurisDeed/61591556170042/ JurisDeed Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/19Yeuy4w22/ Stephen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmorel-jd/ Brian’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-seidensticker-90117021/ Tax Sale Resources: https://www.taxsaleresources.com/ Last Best Partners: https://www.lastbestpartners.com/ Mount North Capital: https://www.lastbestpartners.com/companies/mount-north-capital And if you love the show, subscribe to follow it! If you're investing in Louisiana tax sales under the 2026 rules, you need legal and asset management partners who specialize in this niche: Quiet Title Litigation – TDLG (Tax Deed Legal Group) After your redemption period expires, TDLG forecloses your lien so you can recover your investment with confidence. Louisiana-licensed attorneys with deep expertise in tax sale... Chapters (00:00:00) - Tax Lien Advice(00:01:08) - Brian Seidensticker on The Innovative Investor Podcast(00:02:28) - Tax Liens(00:08:06) - How Real Estate Became a Startup's Life(00:10:43) - Jefferies: Systems Engineer vs Real Estate Investor(00:16:25) - TSR: 9,000 Mortgage Auction's annually,(00:18:02) - Real Estate Underwriting: Taxable Property Data(00:21:50) - How To Track County Tax Liens

    Systems Thinking in Tax Sales: Brian Seidensticker on Solving Big Data Challenges — Part 1 - #10

  6. Apr 22

    Demystifying Tax Deeds with Brenda Flatter, VP of National Sales at US Tax Deed Solutions - #9

    In this episode of The Innovative Investor Podcast, Stephen speaks with Brenda Flatter, Vice President of National Sales at US Tax Deed Solutions and Executive Director of Title and Abstract Agency of America. With over 25 years in the field, she is known for her client relations skills and expertise in title and escrow services. Brenda traces her journey from selling title reports in Indiana’s 90-county tax deed market to building a national tax certification product that fast-tracks insurable closings without the expensive, time-consuming quiet title action.  She explains how the proprietary process you’ve probably never heard of convinces skeptical underwriters to insure post-tax-deed properties in 16 states and why title insurance is the crucial choke point in turning distressed real estate into a clear, marketable title.  Together, Stephen and Brenda dig into the landmark Tyler and pending Pung Supreme Court cases, why eliminating government surplus pockets won’t derail tax deeds, but broad new “state actor” rulings might expose investors to constitutional just-compensation claims.  Brenda shares how US Tax Deed Solutions partners with national underwriters to assume risk, shore up state-by-state statutes, and shore up pipelines of business for title agents. She closes with practical tips for lien investors weighing a move into deeds, the growing threat of vacant-land fraud, and why communities nationwide depend on tax-deed buyers as stewards of local infrastructure and schools.  Timestamps Brenda Flatter’s “aha” moment spotting title insurance as the choke-point in tax deeds – 01:07  Why a state-issued tax deed still leaves a cloud on title (due-process notice issue) – 03:43  US Tax Deed Solutions’ “tax certification” alternative to the lengthy quiet-title action – 10:36  How to build trust and get national underwriters to insure tax deeds – 15:23  Impact of the Tyler and Pung Supreme Court cases on title insurance risk – 25:18 Get in Touch with Stephen and Brenda Flatter Website: https://jurisdeed.com/ Waitlist: https://jurisdeed.com/waitlist JurisDeed Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/JurisDeed/61591556170042/ JurisDeed Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/19Yeuy4w22/ Stephen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmorel-jd/ Brenda's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brendaflatter Email: bflatter@logs.com  Contact: +1 (574) 855-8968  US Tax Deed Solutions: https://www.ustaxdeedsolutions.com/ Title and Abstract Agency of America: https://www.titleandabstract.com/ Matt Abee's Pung v Isabella County episode: https://youtu.be/22NIdaM2G9w And if you love the show, subscribe to follow it! If you're investing in Louisiana tax sales under the 2026 rules, you need legal and asset management partners who specialize in this niche: Quiet Title Litigation – TDLG (Tax Deed Legal Group) After your redemption period expires, TDLG forecloses your lien so you can recover your investment with confidence. Louisiana-licensed attorneys with deep expertise in tax sale law handle all litigation, notice requirements, and foreclosure proceedings. Website: www.taxdeedlegal.com Email: info@taxdeedlegal.com Asset Liquidation & Management – DeedWolf Holding an unre... Chapters (00:00:00) - Tax Sale & Liability(00:00:57) - The Secret to Title Insurance(00:02:12) - Tax Deductions: The Elevator Pitch(00:04:20) - Do Tax Liens Need a Quiet Title Action?(00:06:19) - Tax Liens(00:11:00) - US Tax Deed Solutions: Tax Certification(00:14:36) - Getting a National Underwriting Desk to Say Yes to a Tax L(00:17:49) - Underwriting of US Tax Dividends(00:20:40) - Real Estate: Would You Extend Your Coverage to More States?(00:23:35) - States No More: Alabama and New Jersey(00:25:16) - Title Insurance and Tax Lien Investing(00:26:15) - Title Insurance: Tyler Case and the Surplus(00:29:05) - Tax Deed Foreclosure Case(00:34:20) - Title Insurance: Private Investors and the Tax System(00:36:40) - Punk vs. Title Insurance Industry(00:39:41) - Tax Lien & Deed Investors(00:42:11) - Louisiana Tax Deeds: Should Property Investors Buy a Lien(00:45:14) - Tyler, Title Insurance: Where the Market is Going(00:52:12) - Tax Counselor on Preparing a Tax Return(00:52:47) - What's Next for Tax Deed Solutions?(00:53:57) - The Deed Line Closer

    Demystifying Tax Deeds with Brenda Flatter, VP of National Sales at US Tax Deed Solutions - #9

  7. Apr 1

    Ahead of the Ruling: Nelson Mullins’ Matt Abee on Pung v Isabella County - #8

    In this episode of The Innovative Investor Podcast, Stephen speaks with Matt Abee, partner at Nelson Mullins Riley & Scarborough, about a landmark Supreme Court fight that could redraw the rules of tax sale investing nationwide. Stephen and Matt trace the journey from last year’s Tyler v. Hennepin County decision to the current Pung v. Isabella County case, explaining why a Michigan family’s fight over a $2,000 tax bill and $76,000 auction “surplus” could end up redefining what counts as “just compensation” under the Takings Clause. Drawing on Matt’s deep experience representing tax lien investors, mortgage servicers, and financial institutions in more than 30 states, they unpack how the court might weigh fair market value versus auction proceeds, and why that distinction matters to both deed-state and lien-state players. As the justices pressed on issues of auction fairness, due process, and the homeowner’s own role in triggering a tax sale, Matt lays out three possible outcomes, from a sweeping new rule that forces states to pay full market value, to a narrower “fairness-of-auction” standard that sends cases back for fact-finding at the lower-court level. Along the way, they explore how different states have built wildly diverse sales processes (South Carolina’s administrative treasurer versus North Carolina’s full‐blown judicial foreclosure) and why investors must now consider not only the upside of a lien purchase but also the looming risk of constitutional claims. With the Supreme Court’s decision expected soon, Matt and Stephen offer practical advice on how to assess legal exposure, partner with the right counsel, and stay ahead of a ruling that could “spell the end of tax sales in America,” as the Solicitor General warns. Whether you’re a seasoned portfolio manager or just getting started in tax-linked real estate debt, this conversation makes one thing clear: the future of tax sale investing is no longer solely about yield or location, but about legal intelligence and process, knowing when an auction is truly fair, when to bid, and when to walk away. Tune in for expert insight on Pung’s high-stakes cert petition, learn how to fortify your underwriting, and discover why the best investors of tomorrow will be those who understand both title and tea leaves. Timestamps 1. Overview of Pung v Isabella County and why it matters for tax-sale investors – 00:02 2. How Pung differs from Tyler v Hennepin on tax-sale takings – 02:07 3. Facts of the Pung dispute: principal-residence exemption, $2 K debt, $76 K sale vs. $194 K FMV claim – 05:00 4. Key takeaways from the Feb 25 Supreme Court arguments (fairness of auction, issue preservation) – 13:21 5. Likely SCOTUS outcome and what lien- and deed-state investors need to know – 20:49 Get in Touch with Stephen and Matt Abee Website: https://jurisdeed.com/ Waitlist: https://jurisdeed.com/waitlist JurisDeed Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/JurisDeed/61591556170042/ JurisDeed Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/19Yeuy4w22/ Stephen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmorel-jd/ Matt's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-a-abee-3631832b/ Nelson Mullins: https://www.nelsonmullins.com/ Cases Mentioned Pung v. Isabella: Chapters (00:00:00) - Tax Lien Appeals(00:00:53) - The Pung Case(00:02:41) - Pung vs. Hennepin County: The Tax Sales(00:05:12) - On the Tax Lien Issues(00:05:40) - Tax Lien Investor: The Peng Family(00:14:18) - Trump on the Value of Real Estate(00:14:40) - Supreme Court oral arguments on eminent domain case(00:25:54) - Nebraska Tax Lien Case, Who Pays?(00:34:46) - Tax Sales and Foreclosure: Similar but Different(00:35:59) - The Deed Line

    Ahead of the Ruling: Nelson Mullins’ Matt Abee on Pung v Isabella County - #8

  8. Mar 11

    The Future of Tax Lien Investing: Secondary Markets and Portfolio Strategies - #7

    In this episode of The Innovative Investor Podcast, Stephen Morel speaks with co-host George Jackson, and the co-founder of JurisDeed. They wrap up their deep dive into Louisiana’s 2026 tax sale reforms and use it as a springboard to explore how these changes are reshaping tax-lien investing nationwide.  From managing dual-track laws to avoiding the pitfalls of one-off deals, Stephen and George stress the importance of viewing tax liens as a true asset class, complete with grading systems, tiered strategies, and disciplined capital allocation. Together, they walk through the evolution of enterprise-level portfolio planning and the tools that JurisDeed has built to simplify what was once the “least passive” investment in real estate.  You’ll learn why structuring your acquisitions with clear risk tiers, based on lien amount, property type, and location, can mean the difference between realizing those headline-making returns or getting stuck with unwanted liabilities. They also share how artificial intelligence is poised to predict redemption rates, how to prepare for seven-year enforcement deadlines in Louisiana, and why building in reserves for subsequent taxes and legal costs is non-negotiable.  Looking ahead, Stephen and George tease JurisDeed’s upcoming secondary marketplace for unredeemed liens, which promises to unlock long-stalled capital and bring new liquidity to investors of all sizes.  Whether you’re a mom-and-pop operator or running a multi-state fund, you’ll walk away with actionable insights on streamlining operations, reducing overhead, and positioning your portfolio for professional-level results.  Tune in to stay ahead of Supreme Court rulings, see how evolving state laws affect your strategy, and get the inside track on JurisDeed’s next-generation platform. Timestamps Portfolio Management Strategies Under Louisiana’s New 2026 Tax Sale Laws – 04:05 Tiering Capital Allocation & Property Grading for Risk/Return Optimization – 08:40 Impact of Louisiana’s Seven-Year Statute of Limitations on Liens – 14:15 Overcoming Fragmented Service Providers with a Centralized Platform (JurisDeed) – 18:00 5. Building a Secondary Marketplace for Unredeemed Liens & Improved Liquidity – 21:30 Get in Touch with Stephen and George Website: https://jurisdeed.com/ Waitlist: https://jurisdeed.com/waitlist JurisDeed Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/19Yeuy4w22/ Stephen’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmorel-jd/ George’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-jackson-3bbb11aa/ JurisDeed's Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/people/JurisDeed/61591556170042/ And if you love the show, subscribe to follow it! If you're investing in Louisiana tax sales under the 2026 rules, you need legal and asset management partners who specialize in this niche: Quiet Title Litigation – TDLG (Tax Deed Legal Group) After your redemption period expires, TDLG forecloses your lien so you can recover your investment with confidence. Louisiana-licensed attorneys with deep expertise in tax sale law handle all litigation, notice requirements, and foreclosure proceedings. Website: www.taxdeedlegal.com Email: info@taxdeedlegal.com Asset Liquidation & Management – DeedWolf Holding an unredeemed lien with partial ownership? DeedWolf handles secondary mark... Chapters (00:00:00) - Louisiana 2026: Real Estate Investment Strategy(00:01:10) - Louisiana Tax Sale System Deep Dive(00:03:04) - How CMS managed Louisiana's dual-state law system(00:04:39) - Tax Lien Investing: Tiering The Portfolio(00:07:59) - Louisiana Real Estate Investment: Portfolio Planning(00:09:54) - Louisiana Real Estate Law: 7 Year statute of limitations(00:14:03) - Louisiana Tax Liens: Unredeemed liens(00:20:00) - Tax Lien Investing Podcast(00:21:12) - Tax Lien Investing: Stephen Morrell and George Jackson

    The Future of Tax Lien Investing: Secondary Markets and Portfolio Strategies - #7
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About

The Innovative Investor Podcast is where forward-thinking investors discover the alternative real estate strategies and property debt opportunities that create lasting wealth outside the mainstream. Hosted by Stephen Morel, founder of JurisDeed and one of the nation's foremost legal experts in property debt investing, alongside co-host George W. Jackson, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer at JurisDeed, each episode delivers insider knowledge from experienced investors, fund managers, attorneys, and industry professionals who have built wealth through tax liens, distressed assets, and overlooked corners of real estate. With Stephen's 20+ years of experience in real estate title law, including creating the first tax sale title insurance product and serving as legislative commissioner for the National Tax Lien Association, combined with George's extensive background as a delinquent property tax attorney, the show brings unmatched dual perspectives to every conversation. You'll hear how investors are turning complexity into opportunity, building systems that scale across jurisdictions, and generating 12-18%+ annual returns in a market where 98% of investors never participate. Whether you're an experienced investor looking to diversify beyond traditional real estate, a high-earning professional seeking a clearer path to passive income, or an institutional player exploring alternative asset classes, you'll gain the strategies and frameworks to confidently build wealth through property debt in the modern era.

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