The Second Shift

Bryan Jepson, MD, CFP­­® & Aaron Milledge, MBA, CFP® & Doctor Podcast Network
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You built the career. You earned the title. Now you're wondering what comes next. Second Shift is for high achievers at a crossroads - physicians, pilots, executives, founders - who are financially ready to move on but emotionally stuck. Hosts Bryan Jepson (retired ER physician turned financial planner) and Aaron Milledge (fighter pilot turned advisor) interview people who've navigated the transition from identity-defining careers to whatever comes after. No fluff. No retirement fantasy. Just honest conversations about purpose, relevance, and building a life that doesn't depend on a title.

  1. Sep 14

    Giving Yourself Permission to Explore with Linda Lawrence MD

    Connect with Dr. Linda LawrenceLinda Lawrence MD Founder, People Always Healthcare Consulting Executive Coach | Physician Leader | Speaker https://www.peoplealwayshcc.com/ Connect with Bryan JepsonBryan Jepson MD, CFP® Host, The Second Shift Podcast Website: bryanjepson.com Podcast: 2ndshiftpodcast.com Financial Planning: targetedwealthsolutions.com About This EpisodeWhat if you don't need to know exactly where your career is going before you start exploring what comes next? Dr. Linda Lawrence has built a career around following opportunities she could never have predicted. An emergency physician by training, she spent much of her clinical career in the U.S. Air Force, rising to the rank of colonel and serving in senior leadership roles. She has also served as president of the American College of Emergency Physicians and is now an executive coach and founder of People Always Healthcare Consulting. In this conversation, Linda and I talk about what it takes to build a meaningful next chapter without having the entire path mapped out in advance. We explore how to recognize the work that gives you energy, why networking should be about curiosity rather than transactions, how physicians can become more comfortable with ambiguity and failure, and why giving yourself permission to explore may be the most important first step toward a second shift. We also discuss leadership, coaching, identity, relationships, and the difference between pursuing another accomplishment and building a life around what actually matters to you. As Linda puts it: fear regret more than failure. In This Episode00:00 – Opening: Paying attention to what gives you energy 02:43 – Linda's path from emergency medicine to military leadership 07:32 – Discovering that leadership could be energizing 11:55 – Why adding something meaningful can actually reduce burnout 14:16 – The people around us can sometimes see our path before we do 16:51 – Moving from clinician to leader 21:11 – Developing a tolerance for ambiguity 23:47 – Finding your tribe and rethinking networking 28:40 – How to discover what matters to you now 32:20 – Why physicians struggle to give themselves permission to explore 34:49 – Coaching, mentorship, and why physicians need both 38:26 – Limiting beliefs and finding your own path forward 42:44 – What if you don't want the next 10 years to look like the last 10? 45:48 – Values, clarity, and taking small steps toward change 47:49 – Giving yourself permission to explore 49:01 – People Always Healthcare Consulting and Linda's work today 52:22 – Identity after medicine and following unexpected passions 54:55 – Why there is no retirement from learning 55:55 – Linda's definition of a wealthy life 58:29 – Final advice: Fear regret more than failure 59:18 – Five take-home lessons from the conversation Key TakeawaysPay attention to what gives you energy. You don't need to know the destination before you begin exploring. Build a tribe that expands your view of what's possible. Treat failure as learning rather than defeat. And remember that a truly wealthy life is ultimately rich in relationships. #TheSecondShift #PhysicianLeadership #CareerTransition #LifeAfterMedicine #PhysicianRetirement

  2. Aug 31

    Rediscovering Your Deep Joy with Dr. Thom Mayer

    Learn more or connect with Thom: Thommayermd.com Listen to other episodes: 2ndshiftpodcast.com More physician finance content: bryanjepson.com Dr. Thom Mayer has never followed a conventional career path. His journey has taken him from college football and emergency medicine to national healthcare leadership, disaster response, professional sports, writing, teaching, and his current role as medical director of the NFL Players Association. Through every transition, he has remained guided by a central question: Where can I have the greatest impact? In this episode, Thom shares stories and lessons from a career built around saying yes to unexpected opportunities. We discuss how physicians can recognize the transferable skills they have developed, trust themselves when the next step does not come with a clear roadmap, and use failure as fuel for continued growth. Thom also offers a powerful perspective on burnout—not simply as exhaustion, but as the inability to feel our “deep joy.” This conversation goes beyond career achievement. It is about evolving as our sources of meaning change, finding purpose in both joyful and painful moments, and remembering that true wealth is ultimately measured through wisdom, hope, relationships, and the way we treat the people around us.

  3. Aug 17

    Beyond Clinical Medicine: Finding What Comes Next with Morgan Leafe, MD and Mandy Armitage, MD

    Learn more at: www.nonclinicalphysiciansnetwork.com Sign up for their annual conference: https://www.nonclinicalphysiciansnetwork.com/physician-career-transition-conference Download the Second Shift Blueprint: 2ndshiftpodcast.com Find more physician finance content at bryanjepson.com What happens when the career you worked so hard to build no longer fits the life you want? Drs. Morgan Leafe and Mandy Armitage, co-founders of the Non-Clinical Physicians Network, join me to talk about their own journeys from clinical medicine into careers that ultimately included medical writing, entrepreneurship, career education, and consulting. We explore why physicians often struggle to give themselves permission to consider another path, the value of career coaching and community, and why the best time to explore your options may be before you actually need them. Morgan and Mandy also share some of the opportunities available to physicians outside traditional practice, including medical writing, pharma, utilization management, informatics, health tech, and the rapidly evolving world of AI. We also discuss the financial side of career transition, why replacing your clinical salary isn't always the right benchmark, and how financial independence can give you the freedom to choose work based on meaning and fit rather than income alone. Finally, Morgan and Mandy share resources available through the Non-Clinical Physicians Network and their upcoming in-person conference for physicians exploring careers beyond clinical medicine. Whether you're burned out, approaching retirement, or simply curious about what else might be possible, this conversation is a reminder that becoming a physician doesn't mean you have to do the same thing forever.

  4. Jul 30

    Great Leaders Build People, Not Just Teams with Dr. Michael Fraser, PhD

    Useful links: https://www.acep.org/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/mfraserdc1/ bryanjepson.com 2ndshiftpodcast.com What separates great leaders from great performers? Most of us spend our careers learning how to become experts. Far fewer learn how to become leaders. In this episode of The Second Shift, I sit down with Dr. Mike Fraser, CEO of the American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP), to explore one of the most important career transitions professionals ever make: the shift from individual achievement to developing others. Mike shares lessons from leading national physician organizations, building high-performing teams, and helping professionals navigate career transitions. Along the way, we discuss why relationships matter more than résumés, how to create a culture of ownership, why emergency physicians are uniquely suited for second careers, and how our definition of a wealthy life evolves over time. Whether you're leading a team, considering your next career chapter, or simply trying to build a life of greater purpose, this conversation offers practical wisdom that extends far beyond medicine. In this episode:Why great leaders build people—not just teamsThe difference between management and leadershipHow relationships shape career opportunitiesLessons on burnout, career longevity, and second shiftsWhy defining "enough" creates freedomHow legacy ultimately becomes more important than achievement

  5. Jul 13

    Optionality: The Real Goal of Financial Independence

    Over the first ten episodes of The Second Shift, one lesson has surfaced again and again: financial independence isn't really about retiring early. It's about creating options. In this episode, Bryan and Aaron step back from the interviews to explore one of the biggest themes emerging from their guests' stories. Why do so few financially independent people actually stop working? What changes when money is no longer the primary driver of your decisions? And how can financial independence help you build a career—and a life—that better reflects your values? Along the way, they discuss: • Why optionality may be more valuable than retirement • The difference between freedom and leisure • Lessons from the FIRE movement • How financial independence changes the way you work long before you retire • Why good financial planning should create choices—not just a retirement date Whether you're years away from retirement or simply wondering what's next, this conversation challenges the traditional view of financial independence and offers a more meaningful definition of wealth. Financial independence doesn't buy retirement. It buys the freedom to choose what comes next.

  6. Jun 26

    When Retirement Isn't The End of the Journey with Logan Foltz, MD

    Connect with Dr. Foltz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logan-foltz/ or logan@taxsmartmd.com. Or learn more on his website: https://www.taxsmartmd.com/ Link to more episode of the podcast and download the Second Shift Blueprint: 2ndshiftpodcast.com Many physicians dream of the day they become financially independent. But what happens when you finally reach that goal—and discover it's not the finish line you expected? In this episode, I sit down with psychiatrist-turned-tax advisor Dr. Logan Foltz to discuss his unconventional journey out of clinical medicine. After recognizing early in his career that medicine wasn't the right fit, Logan pursued financial independence with the goal of retiring young. But once he stepped away, he realized that freedom alone wasn't enough. Our conversation explores the psychology of career transitions, the challenge of finding purpose after financial independence, and why discovering your second shift is often a process rather than a single decision. We also discuss the importance of alignment, autonomy, networking, entrepreneurship, and learning to define what "enough" really means. Whether you're considering retirement, a career change, or simply wondering what's next, this episode is a reminder that the journey doesn't end when work becomes optional—it often begins there. In this episode, we discuss: Why medicine wasn't the right fit for LoganDiscovering financial independence and the FIRE movementWhy early retirement wasn't what he expectedThe importance of purpose after financial independenceTransitioning from medicine to financial planning and ultimately tax advisingWhy physicians often struggle with entrepreneurshipThe role of autonomy in career satisfactionLearning to define what "enough" really meansIf you enjoy these conversations, please subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast with someone who may be preparing for their own second shift.

  7. Jun 9

    Rich in Purpose: On Reinvention, Taking Risks, and Living Life to the Fullest with Marvin Wayne, MD

    Connect with Dr. Wayne: linkedin.com/in/marvin-wayne-a8a0218 Listen to more episodes or download the Second Shift Blueprint: https://2ndshiftpodcast.com What does it really mean to live a rich life? In this episode of The Second Shift, I sit down with Dr. Marvin Wayne—a trauma surgeon, Vietnam veteran, emergency physician, EMS pioneer, entrepreneur, inventor, and lifelong learner whose career has been defined by continual reinvention. At more than 80 years old, Marv shares the lessons he's learned from a lifetime of taking risks, embracing change, and refusing to let retirement mean slowing down. We discuss why purpose matters more than money, how curiosity can keep you engaged for life, and why the most meaningful measure of success isn't found in your bank account but in the impact you have on others. Whether you're approaching retirement, considering a career transition, or simply wondering what comes next, this conversation is packed with wisdom and inspiration. In this episode, you'll learn: Why retirement should be about purpose, not stopping How taking calculated risks can lead to extraordinary opportunities The importance of continually reinventing yourself Why relationships and contribution define true wealth How to stay engaged and fulfilled through every stage of life If you enjoy conversations about retirement, purpose, and designing a meaningful next chapter, be sure to subscribe to The Second Shift for more inspiring stories from people who have successfully navigated life's biggest transitions.

  8. May 25

    When Retirement Takes an Unexpected Turn: On Reinvention and Meaning with Fred Dennis, MD

    To connect with Dr. Dennis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frederickdennis/ Interested in more episodes like this? https://2ndshiftpodcast.com Dr. Fred Dennis has spent a lifetime reinventing himself. From rural general practice in Canada to emergency medicine leadership in California, his career evolved through curiosity, relationships, and a willingness to say yes to unexpected opportunities. In this episode of The Second Shift Podcast, Dr. Dennis reflects on decades in medicine, healthcare leadership, business, and mentorship. He shares lessons about career adaptability, professional relationships, physician identity, and the importance of creating opportunities beyond clinical medicine. But this conversation goes much deeper than career transitions. Fred opens up about how an unexpected health crisis involving his wife completely changed his vision of retirement and forced him to rethink purpose, caregiving, and what truly matters in life. He discusses the emotional reality of reinvention after medicine, the importance of family and support systems, and why financial independence creates the freedom to adapt when life does not go according to plan. Throughout the conversation, Fred offers wisdom earned through decades of medicine, leadership, caregiving, and personal adversity. His message is ultimately one of resilience, purpose, and living fully while you still can. In This EpisodeWhy relationships often matter more than career planningHow saying “yes” created unexpected career opportunitiesThe value of side gigs and developing skills outside medicineTransitioning from clinical medicine into leadership and administrationWhy physicians should build identity beyond the white coatFinancial independence and career optionalityNavigating caregiving, health crises, and unexpected life changesReinventing retirement after personal adversityWhy “true wealth” has little to do with money

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About

You built the career. You earned the title. Now you're wondering what comes next. Second Shift is for high achievers at a crossroads - physicians, pilots, executives, founders - who are financially ready to move on but emotionally stuck. Hosts Bryan Jepson (retired ER physician turned financial planner) and Aaron Milledge (fighter pilot turned advisor) interview people who've navigated the transition from identity-defining careers to whatever comes after. No fluff. No retirement fantasy. Just honest conversations about purpose, relevance, and building a life that doesn't depend on a title.

Information

  • Creator
    Bryan Jepson, MD, CFP­­® & Aaron Milledge, MBA, CFP® & Doctor Podcast Network
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    14
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Bryan Jepson, MD, CFP­­® & Aaron Milledge, MBA, CFP® & Doctor Podcast Network

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