The Second Shift

Bryan Jepson, MD, CFP­­® & Aaron Milledge, MBA, CFP® & Doctor Podcast Network
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You built the career. You earned the title. Now you're wondering what comes next. Second Shift is for high achievers at a crossroads - physicians, pilots, executives, founders - who are financially ready to move on but emotionally stuck. Hosts Bryan Jepson (retired ER physician turned financial planner) and Aaron Milledge (fighter pilot turned advisor) interview people who've navigated the transition from identity-defining careers to whatever comes after. No fluff. No retirement fantasy. Just honest conversations about purpose, relevance, and building a life that doesn't depend on a title.

  1. 5d ago

    Turn On Your Superpowers: Transforming Doctor Skills Into New Opportunities with Amy Fogelman MD

    Connect with Dr. Amy Fogelman Website: https://www.highrockexperts.com High Rock Academy: Medical expert witness training and education Connect with Bryan Jepson, MD, CFP® Website: https://www.bryanjepson.com The Second Shift Podcast: https://www.2ndshiftpodcast.com Financial Planning: https://www.targetedwealthsolutions.com About This Episode What if the skills you need for your next career are the very skills you've spent decades developing? After 20 years practicing internal medicine, Dr. Amy Fogelman found herself burned out, anxious, and struggling to imagine life outside clinical medicine. It took three simple words from her husband — "You can stop" — to help her recognize that leaving medicine was an option. But what would she do next? Instead of pursuing another degree, Amy took six months to explore possibilities, connect with mentors, and discover the value of skills she already possessed. Today, she's the founder of High Rock Experts and High Rock Academy, connecting attorneys with qualified medical experts and teaching physicians how to succeed in medical-legal consulting. In this episode of The Second Shift, Amy and Bryan explore physician identity, the emotional challenges of career transitions, and why developing interests outside clinical practice may actually protect against burnout. Amy believes physicians have superpowers — critical thinking, problem-solving, communication, and relationship-building skills that translate into countless opportunities beyond the exam room. They also discuss the practical side of medical expert witness work, including how to get started, earning potential, and why it can be intellectually rewarding even for physicians who continue practicing medicine. Amy's story reminds us that changing careers doesn't mean starting over. Your experience isn't wasted. It may be exactly what prepares you for what's next. In This Episode 00:00 – Introduction: A physician's hidden superpowers 04:32 – Amy's journey into medicine and expert witness work 07:16 – Imposter syndrome and recognizing your expertise 11:49 – Burnout, perfectionism, and loss of control 15:00 – "You can stop": Recognizing the need for change 17:26 – Taking six months to explore new possibilities 20:18 – Entrepreneurship and building High Rock Experts 23:17 – How burnout affects the people we love 27:08 – Physician identity and the fear of leaving medicine 29:27 – Why professional variety can prevent burnout 33:19 – Ethics and credibility in medical expert witness work 38:18 – Expert witness compensation and opportunities 43:13 – Becoming an entrepreneur without a business degree 49:44 – Redefining identity and finding flexibility 53:06 – What Amy misses about clinical medicine 56:18 – What's next for Amy? 57:00 – Defining wealth through relationships, not achievements 59:42 – Bryan's five closing takeaways Hashtags #TheSecondShift #PhysicianCareerTransition #PhysicianBurnout #PhysicianEntrepreneur #MedicalExpertWitness #LifeAfterMedicine #CareerReinvention #PhysicianIdentity

  2. Sep 28

    Beyond FIRE: Financially Independent, Work Optional with Jimmy Turner MD

    Learn more about Dr. Jimmy Turner: moneymeetsmedicine.com Connect with Bryan: bryanjepson.com bryan@targetedwealthsolutions.com About This EpisodeWhat is financial independence actually for? For Dr. Jimmy Turner, the answer isn’t necessarily early retirement. It’s autonomy—the freedom to decide how much you work, what kind of work you do, and how you spend your time. Jimmy is a practicing anesthesiologist and the founder of Money Meets Medicine. His path into physician finance began with his own financial mistakes and a desire to help other physicians avoid making the same ones. What started as a side business eventually became something much more important: a source of flexibility when burnout and disappointment disrupted the career path he thought he would follow. In this conversation, we talk about the achievement treadmill in medicine, the “arrival fallacy” that keeps us chasing the next milestone, and why reaching financial independence—or even retirement—doesn’t automatically create a meaningful life. We also explore why it’s important to understand what is actually making you unhappy before assuming that changing jobs or leaving medicine will solve the problem. Jimmy offers an alternative to the traditional FIRE mindset: FIWO—Financial Independence, Work Optional. The goal isn’t necessarily to stop working. It’s to reach a point where work becomes a choice, giving you the freedom to practice medicine on your terms, pursue something new, or reshape your career as your priorities change. Ultimately, this conversation is about using money for something more valuable than simply accumulating wealth: creating the autonomy to build a life and career you actually want. In This Episode04:34 — How Jimmy’s financial mistakes led him into physician financial education 12:34 — Finding a second-shift idea: What do people naturally come to you for? 18:53 — Why it helps to build options before you burn out 20:21 — When Jimmy’s expected academic career path changed 23:54 — The physician achievement treadmill and the “arrival fallacy” 26:51 — Why dramatically cutting back clinical work initially made Jimmy less happy 29:01 — Burnout, purpose, and why diagnosing the real problem matters 32:56 — Learning to enjoy the process instead of chasing the next achievement 36:20 — What entrepreneurship taught Jimmy about failure 38:14 — Beyond FIRE: Why the purpose of money is autonomy 39:10 — FIWO: Financial Independence, Work Optional 43:23 — Why financial independence may actually extend a physician’s career 45:46 — Before changing careers, diagnose what is actually making you unhappy 51:17 — Testing a second career before leaving medicine 54:14 — Designing an ideal week as your priorities change 57:11 — Jimmy’s definition of true wealth 58:00 — Coast FIRE and living your ideal life before financial independence 1:00:38 — Don’t wait to start enjoying the journey 1:00:59 — Five lessons from the conversation #TheSecondShift #JimmyTurner #MoneyMeetsMedicine #FinancialIndependence #FIWO #FIRE #PhysicianFinance #PhysicianBurnout #CareerTransition #PhysicianEntrepreneur #TrueWealth

  3. Sep 14

    Giving Yourself Permission to Explore with Linda Lawrence MD

    Connect with Dr. Linda LawrenceLinda Lawrence MD Founder, People Always Healthcare Consulting Executive Coach | Physician Leader | Speaker https://www.peoplealwayshcc.com/ Connect with Bryan JepsonBryan Jepson MD, CFP® Host, The Second Shift Podcast Website: bryanjepson.com Podcast: 2ndshiftpodcast.com Financial Planning: targetedwealthsolutions.com About This EpisodeWhat if you don't need to know exactly where your career is going before you start exploring what comes next? Dr. Linda Lawrence has built a career around following opportunities she could never have predicted. An emergency physician by training, she spent much of her clinical career in the U.S. Air Force, rising to the rank of colonel and serving in senior leadership roles. She has also served as president of the American College of Emergency Physicians and is now an executive coach and founder of People Always Healthcare Consulting. In this conversation, Linda and I talk about what it takes to build a meaningful next chapter without having the entire path mapped out in advance. We explore how to recognize the work that gives you energy, why networking should be about curiosity rather than transactions, how physicians can become more comfortable with ambiguity and failure, and why giving yourself permission to explore may be the most important first step toward a second shift. We also discuss leadership, coaching, identity, relationships, and the difference between pursuing another accomplishment and building a life around what actually matters to you. As Linda puts it: fear regret more than failure. In This Episode00:00 – Opening: Paying attention to what gives you energy 02:43 – Linda's path from emergency medicine to military leadership 07:32 – Discovering that leadership could be energizing 11:55 – Why adding something meaningful can actually reduce burnout 14:16 – The people around us can sometimes see our path before we do 16:51 – Moving from clinician to leader 21:11 – Developing a tolerance for ambiguity 23:47 – Finding your tribe and rethinking networking 28:40 – How to discover what matters to you now 32:20 – Why physicians struggle to give themselves permission to explore 34:49 – Coaching, mentorship, and why physicians need both 38:26 – Limiting beliefs and finding your own path forward 42:44 – What if you don't want the next 10 years to look like the last 10? 45:48 – Values, clarity, and taking small steps toward change 47:49 – Giving yourself permission to explore 49:01 – People Always Healthcare Consulting and Linda's work today 52:22 – Identity after medicine and following unexpected passions 54:55 – Why there is no retirement from learning 55:55 – Linda's definition of a wealthy life 58:29 – Final advice: Fear regret more than failure 59:18 – Five take-home lessons from the conversation Key TakeawaysPay attention to what gives you energy. You don't need to know the destination before you begin exploring. Build a tribe that expands your view of what's possible. Treat failure as learning rather than defeat. And remember that a truly wealthy life is ultimately rich in relationships. #TheSecondShift #PhysicianLeadership #CareerTransition #LifeAfterMedicine #PhysicianRetirement

  4. Aug 31

    Rediscovering Your Deep Joy with Dr. Thom Mayer

    Learn more or connect with Thom: Thommayermd.com Listen to other episodes: 2ndshiftpodcast.com More physician finance content: bryanjepson.com Dr. Thom Mayer has never followed a conventional career path. His journey has taken him from college football and emergency medicine to national healthcare leadership, disaster response, professional sports, writing, teaching, and his current role as medical director of the NFL Players Association. Through every transition, he has remained guided by a central question: Where can I have the greatest impact? In this episode, Thom shares stories and lessons from a career built around saying yes to unexpected opportunities. We discuss how physicians can recognize the transferable skills they have developed, trust themselves when the next step does not come with a clear roadmap, and use failure as fuel for continued growth. Thom also offers a powerful perspective on burnout—not simply as exhaustion, but as the inability to feel our “deep joy.” This conversation goes beyond career achievement. It is about evolving as our sources of meaning change, finding purpose in both joyful and painful moments, and remembering that true wealth is ultimately measured through wisdom, hope, relationships, and the way we treat the people around us.

  5. Aug 17

    Beyond Clinical Medicine: Finding What Comes Next with Morgan Leafe, MD and Mandy Armitage, MD

    Learn more at: www.nonclinicalphysiciansnetwork.com Sign up for their annual conference: https://www.nonclinicalphysiciansnetwork.com/physician-career-transition-conference Download the Second Shift Blueprint: 2ndshiftpodcast.com Find more physician finance content at bryanjepson.com What happens when the career you worked so hard to build no longer fits the life you want? Drs. Morgan Leafe and Mandy Armitage, co-founders of the Non-Clinical Physicians Network, join me to talk about their own journeys from clinical medicine into careers that ultimately included medical writing, entrepreneurship, career education, and consulting. We explore why physicians often struggle to give themselves permission to consider another path, the value of career coaching and community, and why the best time to explore your options may be before you actually need them. Morgan and Mandy also share some of the opportunities available to physicians outside traditional practice, including medical writing, pharma, utilization management, informatics, health tech, and the rapidly evolving world of AI. We also discuss the financial side of career transition, why replacing your clinical salary isn't always the right benchmark, and how financial independence can give you the freedom to choose work based on meaning and fit rather than income alone. Finally, Morgan and Mandy share resources available through the Non-Clinical Physicians Network and their upcoming in-person conference for physicians exploring careers beyond clinical medicine. Whether you're burned out, approaching retirement, or simply curious about what else might be possible, this conversation is a reminder that becoming a physician doesn't mean you have to do the same thing forever.

  6. Jul 30

    Great Leaders Build People, Not Just Teams with Dr. Michael Fraser, PhD

    Useful links: https://www.acep.org/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/mfraserdc1/ bryanjepson.com 2ndshiftpodcast.com What separates great leaders from great performers? Most of us spend our careers learning how to become experts. Far fewer learn how to become leaders. In this episode of The Second Shift, I sit down with Dr. Mike Fraser, CEO of the American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP), to explore one of the most important career transitions professionals ever make: the shift from individual achievement to developing others. Mike shares lessons from leading national physician organizations, building high-performing teams, and helping professionals navigate career transitions. Along the way, we discuss why relationships matter more than résumés, how to create a culture of ownership, why emergency physicians are uniquely suited for second careers, and how our definition of a wealthy life evolves over time. Whether you're leading a team, considering your next career chapter, or simply trying to build a life of greater purpose, this conversation offers practical wisdom that extends far beyond medicine. In this episode:Why great leaders build people—not just teamsThe difference between management and leadershipHow relationships shape career opportunitiesLessons on burnout, career longevity, and second shiftsWhy defining "enough" creates freedomHow legacy ultimately becomes more important than achievement

  7. Jul 13

    Optionality: The Real Goal of Financial Independence

    Over the first ten episodes of The Second Shift, one lesson has surfaced again and again: financial independence isn't really about retiring early. It's about creating options. In this episode, Bryan and Aaron step back from the interviews to explore one of the biggest themes emerging from their guests' stories. Why do so few financially independent people actually stop working? What changes when money is no longer the primary driver of your decisions? And how can financial independence help you build a career—and a life—that better reflects your values? Along the way, they discuss: • Why optionality may be more valuable than retirement • The difference between freedom and leisure • Lessons from the FIRE movement • How financial independence changes the way you work long before you retire • Why good financial planning should create choices—not just a retirement date Whether you're years away from retirement or simply wondering what's next, this conversation challenges the traditional view of financial independence and offers a more meaningful definition of wealth. Financial independence doesn't buy retirement. It buys the freedom to choose what comes next.

  8. Jun 26

    When Retirement Isn't The End of the Journey with Logan Foltz, MD

    Connect with Dr. Foltz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/logan-foltz/ or logan@taxsmartmd.com. Or learn more on his website: https://www.taxsmartmd.com/ Link to more episode of the podcast and download the Second Shift Blueprint: 2ndshiftpodcast.com Many physicians dream of the day they become financially independent. But what happens when you finally reach that goal—and discover it's not the finish line you expected? In this episode, I sit down with psychiatrist-turned-tax advisor Dr. Logan Foltz to discuss his unconventional journey out of clinical medicine. After recognizing early in his career that medicine wasn't the right fit, Logan pursued financial independence with the goal of retiring young. But once he stepped away, he realized that freedom alone wasn't enough. Our conversation explores the psychology of career transitions, the challenge of finding purpose after financial independence, and why discovering your second shift is often a process rather than a single decision. We also discuss the importance of alignment, autonomy, networking, entrepreneurship, and learning to define what "enough" really means. Whether you're considering retirement, a career change, or simply wondering what's next, this episode is a reminder that the journey doesn't end when work becomes optional—it often begins there. In this episode, we discuss: Why medicine wasn't the right fit for LoganDiscovering financial independence and the FIRE movementWhy early retirement wasn't what he expectedThe importance of purpose after financial independenceTransitioning from medicine to financial planning and ultimately tax advisingWhy physicians often struggle with entrepreneurshipThe role of autonomy in career satisfactionLearning to define what "enough" really meansIf you enjoy these conversations, please subscribe, leave a review, and share the podcast with someone who may be preparing for their own second shift.

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About

You built the career. You earned the title. Now you're wondering what comes next. Second Shift is for high achievers at a crossroads - physicians, pilots, executives, founders - who are financially ready to move on but emotionally stuck. Hosts Bryan Jepson (retired ER physician turned financial planner) and Aaron Milledge (fighter pilot turned advisor) interview people who've navigated the transition from identity-defining careers to whatever comes after. No fluff. No retirement fantasy. Just honest conversations about purpose, relevance, and building a life that doesn't depend on a title.

Information

  • Creator
    Bryan Jepson, MD, CFP­­® & Aaron Milledge, MBA, CFP® & Doctor Podcast Network
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    16
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Bryan Jepson, MD, CFP­­® & Aaron Milledge, MBA, CFP® & Doctor Podcast Network

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