Booked and Banned: The Podcast

Booked and Banned
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Welcome to Booked and Banned, the podcast about the power of controversial fiction. Every episode, we dive into a work of fiction that has been banned or challenged in schools, libraries, or communities around the world. We examine the reasons behind attempts to silence these stories and have a candid discussion about the literature itself. If you are a curious reader who wants to engage with books that challenge and provoke, hit Follow and join the resistance.

  1. 1d ago

    Episode 23 - The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian

    Note: We experienced technical difficulties during this episode in which the guest's video and audio could not be synced during the editing process, so we felt it best to replace her videothroughout. Additionally, please note that some of the dialogue was not transcripted properly during recording and rushes by too quickly at 15:30, 19:30, 20:30, 20:50, and 24:30. This affects listeners using screen readers or closely following the captions. In this episode, Naomi is joined by Sue, a retired federal employee who dedicated 40 years to the Department of Defense Schools for Dependents in Germany and West Point.Sue brings a unique geographic and personal connection to the text, having grown up in Northern Idaho near the Spokane Indian Reservation, and coming from a family of educators who taught on the Pine Ridge and Rosebud reservations. Together, they explore Sherman Alexie's seminal novel, The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian, analyzing how Junior’s journey navigating a 14-year-old's life on the reservation while attending an all-White high school in Reardan resonates with readers today. The discussion provides an analysis of the novel's distinctive format, focusing heavily on how Junior's comic illustrations fundamentally alter the audience's connection to his suffering. Sue shares how the cartoons successfully broaden the narrative's reach, allowing Junior to explicitly communicate complex systemic inequalities—such as the stark materialcontrast between his supermarket clothes and the specialty gear of his White classmates. Naomi highlights how these visualportraits enhance the realism Alexie intended to create. The conversation moves into the book's handling of historical displacement and the Catholic church, examining how traditional Indigenous structures that honored epilepsy and fluid gender identities were altered or suppressed by colonial religious structures. Naomi introduces the historical backdrop of forcedassimilation boarding schools, noting that while Alexie treats these traumas with a gentler touch in fiction, they loom like a ghost over the narrative. Sue connects this theme to contemporary news, sharing a localized update regarding a Salish language school project in Spokane funded in part by reparations from Catholic Charities due to historic boarding school harms. Naomi and Sue confront the systemic censorship that has trailed the novel since its 2007 publication, dissecting the motivations of those who attempt to pull the book from library shelves. Sue outlines the broader pedagogical danger of hiding these realities, arguing that exposure helps students process real-world variations of these problems, combat isolation, and see paths toward overcoming hardship. They also navigate the internal cultural friction within the text, explicitly addressing Junior's struggle with being branded a "traitor" by the reservation community for leaving his local school. Sue points to the late-novel breakthrough where his best friend Rowdy compares Junior's ambition to the nomadic traditions of theirancestors, providing a healthier framework for understanding growth and opportunity. Finally, they push back against the "socially offensive" label weaponized by censors, with Naomi emphasizing that teenagers use salty, crude language to test boundaries, and that fixating on profanity intentionally ignores thepsychological resilience and humor Junior uses to survive grief.Sue leaves the audience with a powerful call to search for commonalities, reminding listeners that beneath the book's heavy themes lies an enduring portrait of community love and structural support. Our upcoming episode will feature a discussion of the graphic novel Maus by Art Spiegelman.

  2. Aug 11

    Episode 22 - The Catcher in the Rye

    For this episode of Booked and Banned: The Podcast, hostNaomi welcomes Rabbi Dave Spinrad to explore J.D. Salinger's foundational 1951 novel, The Catcher in the Rye. The discussion centers on Holden Caulfield’s three-day journey through New York City following his expulsion from school, tracing his profound alienation from what he deems a phony adult world. Naomi and Rabbi Dave analyze the text's complicated narrative layers, examining how Holden functions as an unreliable narrator whose compulsivedishonesty paradoxically mirrors the real contradictions of the human experience. They look at the book's central metaphor of preservingchildhood innocence and recontextualize Holden's behavior through the lens of unexamined grief surrounding the death of his younger brother. The conversation highlights key textual details, including the symbolic weight of Holden's red hunting hat as a visual anchor to his red-headed siblings and a shield during moments of intense vulnerability. The two also evaluate the novel's famous epilogue, considering how the revelation of Holden speaking from a mental health facility shifts the narrative from a simple tale of teenage rebellion into a critical study of adolescent trauma. Beyond the literary analysis, this episode traces the extraordinary history of censorship that has followed the novel for over seventy years. Naomi charts the evolution of these challenges, starting with mid-century outrage over vulgarity and profanity, moving into the dark historical associations with real-world violence in the 1980s, and concluding with modern attempts by school boards to restrict the book over themes of depression and a lack of a traditional moral arc. Ultimately, Naomi and Rabbi David emphasize that the book's enduring value lies in its refusal to offer sanitized role models, serving instead as an authentic mirror for the human condition that continues to resonate with readers generations after its publication. Looking ahead to the next episode, the podcast will continueits examination of challenged literature with a discussion of The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexie.

  3. Aug 1

    Episode 21: The Yellow Birds

    In the season two premiere, host Naomi connects with Peter,a 28-year Army veteran and former colleague from the United States Military Academy Department of English and Philosophy, to explore Kevin Powers’ acclaimed 2012 debut novel, The Yellow Birds. This powerful work of contemporary war literature follows 21-year-old Private John Bartle through the haunting realities of his deployment to Al Tafar, Iraq, and his subsequent return to a quiet life in Virginia. Naomi and Peter examine the profound internal friction between combat intensity and deployment boredom, the complex psychological weight of a tragic deployment secret, and the distinct literary traditions that ground the novel’s stylistic choices. The conversation highlights how the text portrays moral injury, veteran suicide, and the unique difficulties educators encounter when navigating challenges to contemporary war narratives in schools and library curricula. The Milestones of Contemporary War Literature: Petercontextualizes the novel's 2012 release as a pivotal cultural moment for post-9/11 fiction, cementing its place alongside other defining works of the era. He outlines why the book's elevated literary style establishes it as a modern successor to classic war texts like The Things They Carried and All Quiet on the Western Front. The Reality of the Deployment Horizon: Naomi shares her personal perspective from her time serving in an advise-and-assist brigade in Iraq, contrasting her experience of the wild shifts between intensity and downtime with the constant, immediate threat of combat depicted in the text. They address the critical windows of psychological vulnerability for soldiers, highlighting how isolation and moral distress accelerate mental health crises both during and immediately following a deployment. Literary Allusions and Symbology: The conversationmoves into the layers of imagery woven throughout the text, beginning with the military marching cadence that gives the novel its title and symbolizes the loss of innocence. Naomi notes the thematic echoes between the protagonist's name and Herman Melville's short story "Bartleby, the Scrivener,"sparking a broader dialogue about agency, retreat, and the unintended consequences of Bartle's actions. Poetic Prose and Its Critics: Peter discusses Powers' background as a poet and evaluates his rhythmic, sometimes polarizing prose style. He addresses why certain passages have drawn criticism on platforms like Reddit, while asserting that the author's expansive, complex syntax effectively mirrors the overwhelming nature of traumatic memories. The Complications of External Obligations: They analyze the psychological fallout of the promise Bartle makes to Private Daniel Murphy’s mother, exploring how it directly interferes with the insular, survival-focused bond shared between frontline peers. Peter shares a poignant memory of a deployment chaplain's advice regarding the lifelong challenge veterans face when attempting to share their unfiltered stories with civilians. Censorship and the Cost of War: Addressing the curriculum challenges the novel has faced in New York and the public pushback during Philadelphia's city-wide reading initiative, Peter argues that attempting to sanitize the language or the unvarnished consequences of modern conflict deprives students of crucial insights into the human cost of militaryservice. Our next episode features an in-depth discussion of J.D.Salinger's perennially challenged classic, The Catcher in the Rye.

  4. Jul 10

    Episode 20: City of Thieves

    Drawing the first season of Booked and Banned to a close,host Naomi welcomes Jennifer to discuss David Benioff’s 2008 historical fiction novel, City of Thieves. Jennifer, who studied Russian language and literature and lived in St. Petersburg, shares her personal connection to the setting and her curiosity about why this celebrated book has faced censorship. Set during the grueling 872-day Siege of Leningrad during World War II, the story follows seventeen-year-old Lev and a charismatic army deserter named Kolya. To escape execution, they are sent behind enemy lines on an absurd, high-stakes mission to secure a dozen eggs for a Soviet colonel's daughter's wedding cake. The discussion explores the emotional landscape of the book, the historical realities of the blockade, and how the novel uses dark humor and gritty realism to depict human survival during a period of total societal collapse. Heroism and Character Dynamics The conversation focuses on the striking contrast between the quiet, sheltered Lev and the older, more experienced, and talkative Kolya. Jennifer and Naomi discuss how Kolya acts as a protector figure, using his sharp ability to read people to help them navigate chaotic situations where traditional military and social structures have devolved. They also reflect on the role of sheer luck andwillpower in the characters' journey. The Absurdity of the Mission Naomi notes that the hunt for the twelve eggs functions as a classic MacGuffin, a plot device that drives the characters into danger. Jennifer highlights specific heartbreaking and surreal encounters from their quest, such as an emotional scene involving a dying boy and a chicken, which emphasizes the absolute desperation of theblockade. Historical Realities of the Siege The episode addresses the brutal facts of the Leningrad blockade, where over one millioncivilians died from cold and starvation. Jennifer and Naomi discuss how the fast-paced narrative forced readers to confront the lack of mercy in wartime blockades. Jennifer draws parallels to how American schools teach the survivalchoices of the Donner Party to contextualize why the book’s depictions of cannibalism reflect historical desperation rather than gratuitous shock value. Tonal Shifts and Human Resilience Naomi connects the book's atmosphere to the zeitgeist of “complete disintegration” felt by citizens during the fall of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s. Jennifer shares how the sudden shifts between severe tragedy and dark humor humanize the story, showing how people endure prolonged trauma by finding small victoriesamidst widespread despair. Power, Privilege, and the Target of Censorship In analyzing the end of the quest, Jennifer expresses the profound anger felt when Lev encounters the Colonel, who casually inventories abundance and extra resources in front of starving people who repeatedly risked their lives. The host and guest conclude that the very elements for which the book is challenged—including crude language and mature themes—are exactly what make the portrayal of wartime survival authentic and realistic. Booked and Banned will take a short break. The podcast willreturn in August for Season 2 with a discussion centered on The Yellow Birds by Kevin Powers.

  5. Jun 30

    Episode 19: Tar Baby

    In this episode of Booked and Banned, Naomi welcomeslongtime friend and veteran educator Rhonda to discuss Toni Morrison’s 1981 novel, Tar Baby. While less frequently targeted than some of Morrison's other works, Tar Baby has faced challenges in schools and libraries. Critics often cite explicit content or language as the reason for removal,though these objections frequently mask a deeper discomfort with the book’s rigorous critique of Western values and social hierarchies. Moving between a Caribbean island estate and the streets ofNew York, the story follows the volatile romance between Jadine Childs, a Sorbonne-educated model, and Son, a charismatic fugitive. Their relationship serves as a battleground for competing ideas of Black identity, class, andcultural authenticity. The conversation explores the haunting atmosphere of theIsle des Chevaliers, where the landscape itself seems to judge the characters' choices. Naomi and Rhonda examine the friction between Jadine’s Western assimilation and Son’s rural roots, as well as the complicated power dynamics within the Street household. They also discuss the novel's history of censorship, often sparked by Morrison’s frank portrayal of racial and sexual tensions. By re-examining the folklore of the trickster and the tar baby, this episode looks at the sacrifices made when individuals attempt to navigate worlds that demand the erasure of their heritage. Key Discussion Points: Environmental Psychology: How the personified Caribbean landscape and the mythic presence of the swamp women and blind horsemen reflect the internal struggles of the protagonists. The Conflict of Authenticity: A comparison of Jadine’s cosmopolitan lifestyle and Son’s connection to his Florida home, and why one character may feel more authentic in their identity than the other. Class and Service: The uneasy relationship between the wealthy Streets and their servants, Sydney and Ondine, highlighting how economic necessity can mimic loyalty. Folklore Reclaimed: An analysis of the tar baby and trickster archetypes, exploring who is setting the traps and who is attempting to escape them. The Cost of Belonging: A final reflection on the necessity of maintaining a complete identity while moving between different social and cultural worlds. Next Episode: A discussion of City of Thieves by David Benioff.

  6. Jun 20

    Episode 18: The Chronicles of Narnia

    In this episode, host Naomi is joined by guest Aaron to explore the complex legacy of C.S. Lewis’s The Chronicles of Narnia.While beloved by many, the series has spent decades caught in a unique crossfire: challenged by religious conservatives for its use of "pagan" mysticism and magic, and criticized by secular groups and scholars for its paternalism and orientalist depictions. The conversation moves beyond the binary of "censorship: yes or no" to explore the more difficult questions of access versus curriculum and how an emotional connection to literature can foster intellectual honesty when discussing intellectual freedom. Key Discussion Points The "Supposal" vs. Allegory: Aaron explains that Lewis denied sitting down to write a strict allegory that encoded Christian truths. Instead, he framed the series as a "supposal," asking the question: "Suppose there were this Narnian world and, like ours, it needed redemption; how would our God go about redeeming that world?" Literary Easter Eggs: Naomi and Aaron discuss the deep academic roots of the series, noting that Lewis was a Spenserian and Miltonian scholar. They identify "Easter eggs" and tropes influenced by The Faerie Queene, Paradise Lost, and the Plato’s theory of the Cave found throughout the series. The Nuance of Censorship: Aaron argues that censorship is a nuanced spectrum rather than a black-and-white issue. He makes a distinction between "banning" a book from being published and the localized debate over whether a book should be part of a required school curriculum or available to specific age groups in libraries. Landscape of Power & Gender: The discussion examines how Lewis’s worldview and mythological archetypes—such as the "lamia" found in the poetry of Keats and Coleridge--influenced the depiction of male authority and female independence. They explore how female villains in Narnia are often granted supernatural power while male villains hold military or political power. Character Balance and Independence: Aaron highlights that while Lewis writes with distinct gender differences, he often balances characters, such as making Jill or Aravis generally more impressive or capable than their male counterparts. They also discuss the "Problem of Susan" and how female characters are sidelined for embracing adult interests. The "Not Safe" Lion: Aaron reflects on the central theme that what is "good" and "true" in Narnia is not necessarily the same as what is "safe" or comfortable. This is best exemplified by Eustace’s transformation, where he must undergo a painful process to be absolved of his "dragon's curse.” Next Episode: A discussion of Tar Baby by Toni Morrison.

  7. Jun 8

    Episode 17: Diary of a Young Girl

    In this episode of Booked and Banned: The Podcast, we examine one of the most translated and widely read books in the world: Anne Frank’s diary. We specifically focus on the 1995 Definitive Edition, which restored a significant amount of material previously edited out by Anne’s father, and the more recent Graphic Adaptation by Ari Folman and David Polonsky. Joining the conversation is Karen Peirce, a writer and professional editor with a doctorate in rhetoric and composition. Karen previously worked with host Naomi at West Point in the Department of English and Philosophy. She brings a unique perspective on the text, having first read it as a 14-year-old student at a Quaker school—the same age Anne was when she authored the diary. The Evolution of the Text: The 1995 Definitive Edition restoredapproximately 30% of the material omitted from the original 1947 publication. This restored content provides a more unvarnished look at the interpersonal friction within the Secret Annex, Anne’s burgeoning sexuality, and her conscious literary efforts to edit her own work for future publication. The Visual Medium: We discuss the merits and limitationsof the graphic novel adaptation. While the illustrations help readers visualize the layout of the Annex, the format can sometimes simplify complex character dynamics, such as Anne’s nuanced feelings toward Peter van Daan and Mrs. vanDaan. A History of Challenges: The diary has faced censorship fordecades, beginning with Otto Frank’s "protective editing" of Anne’s criticisms and reflections on her body. Subsequent challenges in the U.S. have ranged from claims that the book is a "real downer" to modern efforts to label the restored or visual versions as "pornographic" or "age-inappropriate". The Complexity of Humanity: Our discussion touches on the healing power of nature as a theme in Anne’s writing and the importance of literature that makes us uncomfortable. Karen reflects on how the diary captures the juxtaposition of horrific historical events with the everyday experiences of love, beauty, and personal growth. Key Discussion PointsAuthorship and Ethics: The tension between Anne’s private"A" version of the diary and her edited "B" versionintended for public eyes. The Impulse to Protect: Why adults often feel the need toshield adolescents from clinical or realistic descriptions of anatomy and puberty. Contemporary Relevance: How the themes of the Holocaust and the suppression of discussion resonate within current global geopolitical tensions. Next Episode: A discussion of the complete Chroniclesof Narnia series by C.S. Lewis.

  8. May 29

    Episode 16: A Prayer for Owen Meaney

    In this episode of Booked and Banned, host Naomi is joined by Lori, a retired Army civilian attorney and mental health counselor, to discuss John Irving’s 1989 classic, A Prayer for Owen Meany. The conversation touches on the novel's intricate structure, its political bite, and the complex relationship between its two central characters. The Draw of Irving’s Prose: Lori shares that despite the daunting 650-page length, it was Irving’s writing style and compelling plot that drew her in. Naomi and Lori agree that the narrative is remarkably engaging, even for those new to Irving’s work. Miraculous Foreshadowing and Predestination: The discussion explores how Irving uses recurring motifs to build the case forOwen’s belief in fate. Lori highlights three specific elements: Owen’s physical and spiritual "lightness," his discovery of his own death date on a prop tombstone, and the obsessive practice of "The Shot" in basketball. These elements suggest that Owen was consciously orchestrating his life to meet a specific, seen destiny. The Power of the All-Caps Voice: We discuss the stylistic choice of writing Owen’s dialogue in all capital letters. Lori notes that this effectively conveys Owen’s authority over both children and adults, while Naomi adds that it creates the sensation that Owen must "scream" to truly be heard, reinforcing his unique presence in the world. Contrast Between Eras - The 1960s vs. 1987: The conversation shifts to the dual timelines of the novel. Lori suggests that the1950s and 60s flashbacks feel more innocent and "simpler" compared to John’s cynical 1987 present. We discuss how the chaos of the Reagan administration and the Iran-Contra affair in the "present day" heightens John’s longing for the directed, purposeful life he shared with Owen. Symbolism and "Disarmament": Naomi and Lori unpack the recurring imagery of missing limbs—from the armadillo to thedressmaker’s dummy. Lori views these as symbols of the sacrifices required by faith and the helplessness of humans in the face of fate. Naomi connects these symbols to the political context of the 1980s, suggesting Irving was playing with the concepts of "arms" sales and nuclear disarmament. Faith vs. Religious Institution: A central theme of the discussion is the distinction between individual spirituality and organizedreligion. Lori posits that Owen is truly spiritual but not religious, while John is religious (following the motions of the church) but lacks Owen’s deep spiritual conviction. They reflect on how John’s primary faith is actually in Owen himself, rather than in a divine entity. Final Thoughts and Legacy: Lori reflects on the idea that true faith—whether in a person, a higher power, or a purpose—is a gift that leads to a more meaningful life. Be sure to join us next time for a discussion of Diary of a Young Girl by Anne Frank (The Definitive Edition).

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Welcome to Booked and Banned, the podcast about the power of controversial fiction. Every episode, we dive into a work of fiction that has been banned or challenged in schools, libraries, or communities around the world. We examine the reasons behind attempts to silence these stories and have a candid discussion about the literature itself. If you are a curious reader who wants to engage with books that challenge and provoke, hit Follow and join the resistance.

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