Booked and Banned: The Podcast

Booked and Banned

Welcome to Booked and Banned, the podcast about the power of controversial fiction. Every episode, we dive into a work of fiction that has been banned or challenged in schools, libraries, or communities around the world. We examine the reasons behind attempts to silence these stories and have a candid discussion about the literature itself. If you are a curious reader who wants to engage with books that challenge and provoke, hit Follow and join the resistance.

  1. Jul 10

    Episode 20: City of Thieves

    Drawing the first season of Booked and Banned to a close,host Naomi welcomes Jennifer to discuss David Benioff’s 2008 historical fiction novel, City of Thieves. Jennifer, who studied Russian language and literature and lived in St. Petersburg, shares her personal connection to the setting and her curiosity about why this celebrated book has faced censorship. Set during the grueling 872-day Siege of Leningrad during World War II, the story follows seventeen-year-old Lev and a charismatic army deserter named Kolya. To escape execution, they are sent behind enemy lines on an absurd, high-stakes mission to secure a dozen eggs for a Soviet colonel's daughter's wedding cake. The discussion explores the emotional landscape of the book, the historical realities of the blockade, and how the novel uses dark humor and gritty realism to depict human survival during a period of total societal collapse. Heroism and Character Dynamics The conversation focuses on the striking contrast between the quiet, sheltered Lev and the older, more experienced, and talkative Kolya. Jennifer and Naomi discuss how Kolya acts as a protector figure, using his sharp ability to read people to help them navigate chaotic situations where traditional military and social structures have devolved. They also reflect on the role of sheer luck andwillpower in the characters' journey. The Absurdity of the Mission Naomi notes that the hunt for the twelve eggs functions as a classic MacGuffin, a plot device that drives the characters into danger. Jennifer highlights specific heartbreaking and surreal encounters from their quest, such as an emotional scene involving a dying boy and a chicken, which emphasizes the absolute desperation of theblockade. Historical Realities of the Siege The episode addresses the brutal facts of the Leningrad blockade, where over one millioncivilians died from cold and starvation. Jennifer and Naomi discuss how the fast-paced narrative forced readers to confront the lack of mercy in wartime blockades. Jennifer draws parallels to how American schools teach the survivalchoices of the Donner Party to contextualize why the book’s depictions of cannibalism reflect historical desperation rather than gratuitous shock value. Tonal Shifts and Human Resilience Naomi connects the book's atmosphere to the zeitgeist of “complete disintegration” felt by citizens during the fall of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s. Jennifer shares how the sudden shifts between severe tragedy and dark humor humanize the story, showing how people endure prolonged trauma by finding small victoriesamidst widespread despair. Power, Privilege, and the Target of Censorship In analyzing the end of the quest, Jennifer expresses the profound anger felt when Lev encounters the Colonel, who casually inventories abundance and extra resources in front of starving people who repeatedly risked their lives. The host and guest conclude that the very elements for which the book is challenged—including crude language and mature themes—are exactly what make the portrayal of wartime survival authentic and realistic. Booked and Banned will take a short break. The podcast willreturn in August for Season 2 with a discussion centered on The Yellow Birds by Kevin Powers.

  2. Jun 30

    Episode 19: Tar Baby

    In this episode of Booked and Banned, Naomi welcomeslongtime friend and veteran educator Rhonda to discuss Toni Morrison’s 1981 novel, Tar Baby. While less frequently targeted than some of Morrison's other works, Tar Baby has faced challenges in schools and libraries. Critics often cite explicit content or language as the reason for removal,though these objections frequently mask a deeper discomfort with the book’s rigorous critique of Western values and social hierarchies. Moving between a Caribbean island estate and the streets ofNew York, the story follows the volatile romance between Jadine Childs, a Sorbonne-educated model, and Son, a charismatic fugitive. Their relationship serves as a battleground for competing ideas of Black identity, class, andcultural authenticity. The conversation explores the haunting atmosphere of theIsle des Chevaliers, where the landscape itself seems to judge the characters' choices. Naomi and Rhonda examine the friction between Jadine’s Western assimilation and Son’s rural roots, as well as the complicated power dynamics within the Street household. They also discuss the novel's history of censorship, often sparked by Morrison’s frank portrayal of racial and sexual tensions. By re-examining the folklore of the trickster and the tar baby, this episode looks at the sacrifices made when individuals attempt to navigate worlds that demand the erasure of their heritage. Key Discussion Points: Environmental Psychology: How the personified Caribbean landscape and the mythic presence of the swamp women and blind horsemen reflect the internal struggles of the protagonists. The Conflict of Authenticity: A comparison of Jadine’s cosmopolitan lifestyle and Son’s connection to his Florida home, and why one character may feel more authentic in their identity than the other. Class and Service: The uneasy relationship between the wealthy Streets and their servants, Sydney and Ondine, highlighting how economic necessity can mimic loyalty. Folklore Reclaimed: An analysis of the tar baby and trickster archetypes, exploring who is setting the traps and who is attempting to escape them. The Cost of Belonging: A final reflection on the necessity of maintaining a complete identity while moving between different social and cultural worlds. Next Episode: A discussion of City of Thieves by David Benioff.

  3. Jun 20

    Episode 18: The Chronicles of Narnia

    In this episode, host Naomi is joined by guest Aaron to explore the complex legacy of C.S. Lewis’s The Chronicles of Narnia.While beloved by many, the series has spent decades caught in a unique crossfire: challenged by religious conservatives for its use of "pagan" mysticism and magic, and criticized by secular groups and scholars for its paternalism and orientalist depictions. The conversation moves beyond the binary of "censorship: yes or no" to explore the more difficult questions of access versus curriculum and how an emotional connection to literature can foster intellectual honesty when discussing intellectual freedom. Key Discussion Points The "Supposal" vs. Allegory: Aaron explains that Lewis denied sitting down to write a strict allegory that encoded Christian truths. Instead, he framed the series as a "supposal," asking the question: "Suppose there were this Narnian world and, like ours, it needed redemption; how would our God go about redeeming that world?" Literary Easter Eggs: Naomi and Aaron discuss the deep academic roots of the series, noting that Lewis was a Spenserian and Miltonian scholar. They identify "Easter eggs" and tropes influenced by The Faerie Queene, Paradise Lost, and the Plato’s theory of the Cave found throughout the series. The Nuance of Censorship: Aaron argues that censorship is a nuanced spectrum rather than a black-and-white issue. He makes a distinction between "banning" a book from being published and the localized debate over whether a book should be part of a required school curriculum or available to specific age groups in libraries. Landscape of Power & Gender: The discussion examines how Lewis’s worldview and mythological archetypes—such as the "lamia" found in the poetry of Keats and Coleridge--influenced the depiction of male authority and female independence. They explore how female villains in Narnia are often granted supernatural power while male villains hold military or political power. Character Balance and Independence: Aaron highlights that while Lewis writes with distinct gender differences, he often balances characters, such as making Jill or Aravis generally more impressive or capable than their male counterparts. They also discuss the "Problem of Susan" and how female characters are sidelined for embracing adult interests. The "Not Safe" Lion: Aaron reflects on the central theme that what is "good" and "true" in Narnia is not necessarily the same as what is "safe" or comfortable. This is best exemplified by Eustace’s transformation, where he must undergo a painful process to be absolved of his "dragon's curse.” Next Episode: A discussion of Tar Baby by Toni Morrison.

  4. Jun 8

    Episode 17: Diary of a Young Girl

    In this episode of Booked and Banned: The Podcast, we examine one of the most translated and widely read books in the world: Anne Frank’s diary. We specifically focus on the 1995 Definitive Edition, which restored a significant amount of material previously edited out by Anne’s father, and the more recent Graphic Adaptation by Ari Folman and David Polonsky. Joining the conversation is Karen Peirce, a writer and professional editor with a doctorate in rhetoric and composition. Karen previously worked with host Naomi at West Point in the Department of English and Philosophy. She brings a unique perspective on the text, having first read it as a 14-year-old student at a Quaker school—the same age Anne was when she authored the diary. The Evolution of the Text: The 1995 Definitive Edition restoredapproximately 30% of the material omitted from the original 1947 publication. This restored content provides a more unvarnished look at the interpersonal friction within the Secret Annex, Anne’s burgeoning sexuality, and her conscious literary efforts to edit her own work for future publication. The Visual Medium: We discuss the merits and limitationsof the graphic novel adaptation. While the illustrations help readers visualize the layout of the Annex, the format can sometimes simplify complex character dynamics, such as Anne’s nuanced feelings toward Peter van Daan and Mrs. vanDaan. A History of Challenges: The diary has faced censorship fordecades, beginning with Otto Frank’s "protective editing" of Anne’s criticisms and reflections on her body. Subsequent challenges in the U.S. have ranged from claims that the book is a "real downer" to modern efforts to label the restored or visual versions as "pornographic" or "age-inappropriate". The Complexity of Humanity: Our discussion touches on the healing power of nature as a theme in Anne’s writing and the importance of literature that makes us uncomfortable. Karen reflects on how the diary captures the juxtaposition of horrific historical events with the everyday experiences of love, beauty, and personal growth. Key Discussion PointsAuthorship and Ethics: The tension between Anne’s private"A" version of the diary and her edited "B" versionintended for public eyes. The Impulse to Protect: Why adults often feel the need toshield adolescents from clinical or realistic descriptions of anatomy and puberty. Contemporary Relevance: How the themes of the Holocaust and the suppression of discussion resonate within current global geopolitical tensions. Next Episode: A discussion of the complete Chroniclesof Narnia series by C.S. Lewis.

  5. May 29

    Episode 16: A Prayer for Owen Meaney

    In this episode of Booked and Banned, host Naomi is joined by Lori, a retired Army civilian attorney and mental health counselor, to discuss John Irving’s 1989 classic, A Prayer for Owen Meany. The conversation touches on the novel's intricate structure, its political bite, and the complex relationship between its two central characters. The Draw of Irving’s Prose: Lori shares that despite the daunting 650-page length, it was Irving’s writing style and compelling plot that drew her in. Naomi and Lori agree that the narrative is remarkably engaging, even for those new to Irving’s work. Miraculous Foreshadowing and Predestination: The discussion explores how Irving uses recurring motifs to build the case forOwen’s belief in fate. Lori highlights three specific elements: Owen’s physical and spiritual "lightness," his discovery of his own death date on a prop tombstone, and the obsessive practice of "The Shot" in basketball. These elements suggest that Owen was consciously orchestrating his life to meet a specific, seen destiny. The Power of the All-Caps Voice: We discuss the stylistic choice of writing Owen’s dialogue in all capital letters. Lori notes that this effectively conveys Owen’s authority over both children and adults, while Naomi adds that it creates the sensation that Owen must "scream" to truly be heard, reinforcing his unique presence in the world. Contrast Between Eras - The 1960s vs. 1987: The conversation shifts to the dual timelines of the novel. Lori suggests that the1950s and 60s flashbacks feel more innocent and "simpler" compared to John’s cynical 1987 present. We discuss how the chaos of the Reagan administration and the Iran-Contra affair in the "present day" heightens John’s longing for the directed, purposeful life he shared with Owen. Symbolism and "Disarmament": Naomi and Lori unpack the recurring imagery of missing limbs—from the armadillo to thedressmaker’s dummy. Lori views these as symbols of the sacrifices required by faith and the helplessness of humans in the face of fate. Naomi connects these symbols to the political context of the 1980s, suggesting Irving was playing with the concepts of "arms" sales and nuclear disarmament. Faith vs. Religious Institution: A central theme of the discussion is the distinction between individual spirituality and organizedreligion. Lori posits that Owen is truly spiritual but not religious, while John is religious (following the motions of the church) but lacks Owen’s deep spiritual conviction. They reflect on how John’s primary faith is actually in Owen himself, rather than in a divine entity. Final Thoughts and Legacy: Lori reflects on the idea that true faith—whether in a person, a higher power, or a purpose—is a gift that leads to a more meaningful life. Be sure to join us next time for a discussion of Diary of a Young Girl by Anne Frank (The Definitive Edition).

  6. May 19

    Episode 15: Little Black Sambo

    In this episode of Booked and Banned, we examine thecomplicated legacy of Helen Bannerman’s Little Black Sambo. First published in 1899, the book tells the story of a young boy in India who uses his wit to outsmart a group of tigers. While the original narrative depicts a heroic child, subsequent American editions often utilized exaggerated racial caricatures that transformed the text into a significant case study on how visual representation and cultural context can alter the reception of a story over time. Our guest is Marv Jones, a retired Navy Captain who nowworks in diversity, equity, and inclusion. Marv shares a deeply personal connection to the book, noting that it was one of the first stories he learned to read at age four or five. He describes how, as a young child, the negative racial connotations did not register; instead, he was captivated by the protagonist’s heroism and intelligence. The conversation explores several layers of the book'simpact: The Power of Agency: Marv explains that for him, the protagonist was a rare hero who resembled him in skin tone and age, and he identified with the boy's resourcefulness in outwitting his predators. A Shift in Perspective: Marv details how his view changed as he grew older and learned from his parents and eight siblings. He recounts a moving family story where his parents taught them that while the book was a tool for learning to read, he should not allow its caricatures to define his self-worth. Visual Evolution and Minstrelsy: We discuss the specific illustrations by Florence White Williams and the American minstrelsy archetypes—such as the "mammy" figure and "p********y" imagery—that became associated with the story. Cultural Footprint: The episode touches on the history of the book and modern attempts by illustrators like Jerry Pinkney and Christopher Bing to reclaim the narrative through culturally accurate depictions of India. Marv concludes the episode by reflecting on the progressmade over the last century. He views original and subsequent copies of the book as evidence of that progress and advocates for continued open dialogue and civil discourse about literature that makes us uncomfortable. Join us for our next episode where we will discuss A Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving.

  7. May 8

    Episode 14: Moloka'i

    In this episode of Booked and Banned, we look at AlanBrennert’s international bestseller, Moloka'i. The novel spans nearly a century of Hawaiian history, seen through the eyes of a young girl exiled to the Kalaupapa leprosy settlement. We explore how this story of resilience highlights the human spirit’s ability to flourish even under the shadow of state-mandated exile. Rosemarie is a technology leader who first brought this novel to our attention during a shared book club. Having lived in Hawai'i and visited the island of Moloka'i, Rosemarie brings a personal connection to the history and geography of the novel. We discuss why she felt this story was essential reading for the club and the deep emotional impact of exploring Hawaiian history through Rachel's eyes. A Love Letter to the Islands: We explore how the novel serves as a beautiful tribute to the landscape, culture, and spirit ofHawai'i, capturing the vibrancy of a kingdom in transition. The Double Tragedy: How the novel balances the physical toll of disease with the cultural and emotional toll of forced exile. The Missionary Paradox: A nuanced look at the role of the Catholic Church, including Father Damien and Mother Marianne Cope. We examine how missionary efforts provided essential infrastructure while simultaneously imposing Western strictures that often marginalized Hawaiian traditions. The Cycle of Separation: A discussion on the heartbreaking historical reality of children born in the settlement beingimmediately removed from their parents, and how Rachel experiences this trauma as both a child and a mother. Humanity Beyond the Medical: Why portraying the fullspectrum of Rachel’s life—her relationships, her grief, and her joy—is vital to acknowledging her as a complete human being. Redefining Family: How the residents of Kalaupapa built a vibrant community (ohana) when their biological families were stripped away, and what that teaches modern readers about isolation, altruism, and the necessity of being uncomfortable to truly learn. Join us for our next episode as we discuss our first children's book, the controversial and heavily debated Little Black Sambo by Helen Bannerman.

  8. Apr 28

    Episode 13: Red Rising

    This installment of Booked and Banned examines PierceBrown’s science fiction debut, Red Rising. The narrative transports listeners to a terraformed Mars where society is organized by a rigid, color-coded caste system. We follow Darrow, a member of the lowly Red caste, who discovers that the life of sacrifice his people lead is based on a fabricationmaintained by the ruling elite. The discussion focuses on Darrow’s infiltration of the Institute and the difficult strategic choices he must make to understand and eventually subvert the architecture of power. Despite its popularity, Red Rising frequently appears on challenge lists in school districts and libraries. These attempts at removal typically center on the visceral descriptions of combat and the harsh realities of the student-led war at the Institute. There is also a recurring debate regarding the blurred lines between its marketing and its mature, complex themes. Beyond the physicality of the story, the novel’s narrative of questioning established history and dismantling social hierarchies often draws the attention of those who find its message of subversion concerning. Our conversation explores how the novel uses geneticallyengineered castes to mirror social stratification without relying on simple analogies. We analyze Darrow’s growth as he learns to speak the language of his oppressors, weighing the difference between utilizing power as a tool and beingfundamentally changed by its influence. This evolution is most evident during his time at the Institute, where he must move beyond the shared struggle of the mines and navigate a world of shifting alliances and cold-blooded strategy. We discuss how Darrow’s realization of the "Great Lie"—that his people’ssuffering was a manufactured necessity for the luxury of others—serves as a catalyst for his journey and a mirror for modern conversations about historical transparency. We also consider why stories about reclaiming history andchallenging the architecture of power are often among the first to face censorship. The discussion questions whether the harsh environment of the Institute is an essential reflection of a cruel regime or a distraction from the broader message of justice. By examining the "Culling" and the brutal trials of House Mars, we look at how the story forces readers to confront the cost of liberation. Finally, we reflect on how Darrow’s journey from a closed information system to an open one emphasizes the importance of intellectual freedom and the dangers of curated truths. Our next episode will focus on Moloka'i by Alan Brennert.

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About

Welcome to Booked and Banned, the podcast about the power of controversial fiction. Every episode, we dive into a work of fiction that has been banned or challenged in schools, libraries, or communities around the world. We examine the reasons behind attempts to silence these stories and have a candid discussion about the literature itself. If you are a curious reader who wants to engage with books that challenge and provoke, hit Follow and join the resistance.

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