Were We Lucky, or Were We Good?

Steve Smith / Experiential Consulting
  • 5.0 (3)
  • Wilderness
  • Updated Monthly

Welcome to the Lucky or Good Podcast, where we explore lessons learned from outdoor & experiential education, applying safety science and storytelling to learn from our experiences.  This is a community of curiosity, humility, and learning -- not a space to shame, blame, or judge. Critical thinking is welcome, but we should be critical of the conditions that led to incidents, not the people caught up by those conditions.  

  1. Sep 1

    Episode 12 - A Sea Kayaking Near-Miss (Stuart Slay)

    In the world of outdoor education, success often teeters on the edge of luck and skill. What happens when we experience a near miss? How do we learn from those moments that could have ended in disaster? In this episode, we'll explore a compelling story shared by risk management consultant and coach, Stuart Slay. This account highlights the critical lessons learned from incidents in outdoor programs, emphasizing the importance of planning, accountability, safety leadership and reflective practices. Were they lucky, or good?

  2. Aug 14

    Episode 11 - Lesson From the Ice, Part II (Kate Koons)

    Part II of our two part series with Kate Koons, talking about lessons learned from risk management in Antarctica and beyond. What has Kate learned from outdoor education, avalanche education, mental health training, and wilderness risk management that she has successfully adapted and applied to her field safety work in Antarctica? We also return to her story of a snowmobile incident from Part I and evaluate if they were lucky, or good. Safety Science concepts include Safety Clutter, Systems Thinking, AcciMaps, and Psychological Safety, among others.

  3. Aug 1

    Episode 10 - Lessons from the Ice, Part I (Kate Koons)

    Guest: Kate Koons In this episode, Kate Koons shares her risk management leadership experiences from Antarctica and beyond, highlighting the importance of psychological safety, planning, and communication in extreme environments. Chapters 00:00 Kate's Journey as a Learner and Mentor 02:44 Incident in Antarctica: A Case Study 10:10 Response and Recovery: What Went Well 17:34 Graceful Extensibility Built Into the Design 19:04 Emergency versus Crisis 23:32 The Importance of Psychological Safety 30:09 Competing Priorities in Scientific Field Work 32:50 How do we perceive risk?

  4. Jul 15

    Episode 9 - A Behavioral Incident, or an Organizational Incident? (Chris Bartram)

    Guest: Chris Bartram Outdoor Educator, Mountain Guide and Risk Management Consultant Chris Bartram revisits a challenging experience from early in his outdoor education career, struggling with group dynamics and threatening, disruptive behavior from a student. In revisiting the story, the conversation shifts from a simple story of blame, to a more complex story of organizational, administrative, and environmental factors that contributed to the group's challenges. Applying a systems-thinking lens, Chris explores deeper lessons learned from the event, and wraps up with focused advice for organizational leaders and managers to learn from his experience. Chapters 00:00 Introductions 01:37 Student Behavioral Challenges 04:45 Group Dynamics 07:46 Behavior Management and Health Concerns 11:57 A Brief Change in Student Behavior... 12:56 Analysis of the Incident 22:31 Were we lucky, or good? 32:32 Advice - Listening to the Front Line Workers 33:33 Positive Capacities

  5. Jul 1

    Episode 8 - The Costs, and Gifts, of Outdoor Incidents (Tracy Rekart)

    Episode 8 - The Costs, and Gifts, of Outdoor Incidents (Tracy Rekart) Guest: Tracy Rekart Tracy Rekart shares a powerful story of a climbing incident, lessons learned about risk, communication, and resilience. This episode explores how to handle failure, recognize biases, and pursue recovery after a critical incident occurs. Her story is filled with insights, clarity, courage, and vulnerability, all of which provide useful takeaways for outdoor & experiential educators. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest 01:12 Tracy's Climbing Incident: A Personal Story 09:00 Reflections on the Incident and Lessons Learned 12:55 Communication and Safety in Outdoor Education 17:09 The Aftermath: Recovery and Relationship Growth 19:39 A Dream of Healing 20:28 Finding a New Home and Life Choices 21:45 The Importance of Presence in Recovery 23:25 Learning from Vulnerability and Holding Space 24:43 Cognitive Biases in Outdoor Education 27:24 The Substitution Effect in Decision Making 30:26 FailSafe vs. Fail Safely 31:48 Excavating for Risks and Final Thoughts Learn more about Tracy and her work at https://www.tracyrekart.com/

  6. Jun 27 ·  Bonus

    Mini Episode #1 - Don't Mistake Outcomes for Process (Matt Baker-White)

    Welcome to our first mini-episode, live from the lighthouse at Mukilteo, Washington State! In this brief conversation, Matt Baker-White, an early adopter of our "Lucky or Good" approach, explains the difference between focusing on outcomes versus focusing on effective processes in his work at the Wild Rockies Field Institute.

  7. Jun 15

    Episode 7 - Listening to Weak Signals (Gareth Lock)

    How Vulnerability and Listening to Weak Signals Can Save Lives: A Conversation with Gareth Lock  In this episode, Gareth Lock (from the Human Diver) shares a powerful personal story about a near-fatal cardiac event and explores how vulnerability, systems thinking, and recognizing weak signals can improve safety in outdoor and diving environments. Key Topics: Gareth’s personal experience with a critical cardiac event and key lessons learnedThe importance of listening to weak signals and small cues in safety managementHow vulnerability models foster a safety culture that encourages speaking upThe concept of local rationality and understanding decision-making in contextContrasting linear risk analysis with holistic systems thinking approachesThe benefits of framing risk positively: beneficial risks and growth opportunitiesFail-safe design principles: creating resilient systems that recover gracefullyThe role of cognitive biases like hindsight bias and ways to counteract themApplying safety science concepts to outdoor education and adventure activitiesThe significance of language and shared vocabulary in safety conversations Resources & Links: Gareth Lock - The Human Diver

  8. Jun 1

    Episode 6- Failing Forward (Jaime Overmyer)

    In the world of adaptive outdoor education, the balance between safety and adventure is tenuous. One common challenge that many organizations face is the fear of failure among staff, especially in high-consequence situations. In this post, we’ll explore insights shared by Jaime Overmeyer of the Breckenridge Outdoor Education Center on how to transform the stigma of failure into a powerful tool for growth, confidence, and innovation. By creating a balance between clear policies with trust and flexibility for innovation, Jaime describes how she has built an organizational mindset of "failing forward" on the pathway of continuous improvement.

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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
3 Ratings

About

Welcome to the Lucky or Good Podcast, where we explore lessons learned from outdoor & experiential education, applying safety science and storytelling to learn from our experiences.  This is a community of curiosity, humility, and learning -- not a space to shame, blame, or judge. Critical thinking is welcome, but we should be critical of the conditions that led to incidents, not the people caught up by those conditions.  

Information

  • Creator
    Steve Smith / Experiential Consulting
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    13
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Steve Smith / Experiential Consulting
  • Show Website
    Were We Lucky, or Were We Good?

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