The West of Perfection Podcast

West of Perfection
  • 5.0 (8)
  • Business
  • Updated Weekly

Most leadership development treats people like problems to be solved. West of Perfection believes that growth starts from the inside out — with the person, not the performance. Join Erin Van de Voorde and Mary Katherine Wathen for honest conversations about what it actually takes to lead well: at work, at home, and in the in-between moments where the person is formed.

  1. 14h ago

    How to Manage Up | Organizational Culture Series | Ep. 16

    In the third installment of the Organizational Culture Series, Erin Van de Voorde and Mary Katherine Wathen tackle the often-misunderstood skill of managing up. Backed by striking statistics, they unpack why so many employees stay silent, how leaders unintentionally shut down feedback, and what healthy two-way communication looks like. Packed with illuminating stories — ranging from a CEO who spent six months walking the floors to a sales rep who mastered the art of wasting time — this episode offers practical ways to build trust and psychological safety in both directions.  0:00 – Introduction and the silence statistics  1:24 – Why meaningless meetings and unheard feedback erode trust  3:43 – Reframing managing up: not manipulation, but communication  5:31 – A CEO's example of listening from the ground up  8:11 – Managing up as relationship, not perception management  11:36 – Story time: wasting time as a form of "managing up"  17:02 – When managing up fails: silence, saved-up grievances, and mind-reading  19:44 – Solutions: bringing your best thinking, not just problems  24:23 – Rapid fire for leaders: building a culture where people speak up  32:30 – The challenge of the week and how to reach the show  What we cover:  The real cost of silence at work — including the statistic that only 16% of employees find conversations with their manager meaningful  Why "managing up" gets mistaken for manipulation or political maneuvering  How relationships (not hierarchy) should drive the flow of information up and down an organization  A personal story about disengaging from inauthentic, scripted sales processes  The most common ways managing up fails: dumping problems without solutions, waiting to be asked, staying silent, saving grievances for performance reviews, and letting communication go sideways into gossip  Concrete solutions for employees: bring your best thinking (not just problems), say what you need out loud, and learn how your leader prefers to receive information  Concrete solutions for leaders: explicitly invite feedback, prove you mean it when someone brings you something hard, ask specific (not vague) questions, and always close the loop  --  Leave us a voicemail or send us a text at ‪(615) 864-0359‬ to ask a question or share your West Moment! This week's challenge is twofold:  For yourself: Identify one thing you need from someone above you that you've never asked for. Prepare your thinking, then go have that conversation.  For those you manage: Ask one person on your team, "What's one thing I'm doing that's making your job harder?" or "What obstacle can I remove for you?"   --   Connect with Erin and MK at West of Perfection:   Free, Weekly Leadership Insights for Orthodontists - Sign up for Beyond the Brackets here!   Free, Weekly Leadership Insights for Business Leaders - Sign Up for Beyond the Boardroom here!  West’s website  Instagram  LinkedIn  Work with West

  2. Aug 13

    What Toxic Communication Is Costing Your Team | Organizational Culture Series | Ep. 15

    The passive-aggressive Teams chat among your employees is costing your company real money. In the second installment of their Organizational Culture series, Erin Van de Voorde and Mary Katherine Wathen expose the six sneaky communication habits, from the silent treatment to gossiping "as a bonding activity", that quietly wreck team trust long before anyone admits there's a problem. With eye-opening stats on what toxic communication actually costs companies and a simple three-question test to catch yourself before you avoid the necessary but hard conversation, this episode is a wake-up call for anyone who's ever struggled to communicate well.   0:00 Intro and West Moment  1:11 Introducing today's topic: toxic communication  2:27 Case study: a business owner's team caught in a messaging spiral  8:27 Pattern 1: Triangulation  9:52 Pattern 2: Weaponized silence  12:03 Pattern 3: Surface-level nice  13:02 Pattern 4: Gossip as currency  16:29 Pattern 5: Vague feedback  18:12 Pattern 6: Passive-aggressive communication  18:45 Recap of all six patterns  20:27 The real cost of toxic communication, by the numbers  23:51 A three-question framework for healthier communication  24:39 This week's challenge  What We Cover  Why avoiding hard conversations leads teams into toxic communication habits, even when no one intends it  The six patterns of toxic communication: triangulation, weaponized silence, surface-level nice, gossip as currency, vague feedback, and passive-aggressiveness  Why written communication on teams is especially prone to misinterpretation,  Real statistics on what poor communication costs organizations in turnover, productivity, and trust  A simple three-question framework to help you speak more directly and with more courage  --  Leave us a voicemail or send us a text at ‪(615) 864-0359‬ to ask a question or share your West Moment! This week's challenge is to pick one of the three questions from this week's framework, "Am I saying this to the right person?", "Am I being clear or staying in my comfort zone?", or "What is the cost of my silence?", and put it into practice this week.  --   Connect With West:   Free, Weekly Leadership Insights for Orthodontists - Sign up for Beyond the Brackets here!   Free, Weekly Leadership Insights for Business Leaders - Sign Up for Beyond the Boardroom here!  West’s website: ⁠https://www.Westofperfection.com⁠   Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/westofperfection/⁠   LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/west-of-perfection/⁠   Work with us: ⁠https://www.westofperfection.com/services⁠

  3. Aug 6

    The Entitlement Problem | Organizational Culture Series | Ep. 14

    Mary Katherine Wathen and Erin Van de Voorde kick off a new series on organizational culture by unpacking the data behind disengagement and the rise of an "entitlement culture" in today's workforce. They dig into why perks or pay don’t drive engagement, why treating symptoms instead of root causes backfires, and how leaders can rebuild clarity, standards, and trust without falling into the trap of over-giving.  Chapters  0:00 — Organizational Culture Series Intro & West Moment on imposter syndrome  0:49 — The state of workplace engagement (the stats)  3:01 — Common complaints leaders bring to coaching  4:35 — Why Band-Aid fixes (like chasing "better people") don't work  6:41 — Defining the entitlement problem  11:20 — Is this really a "generational" issue?  19:31 — Client example: the leader who over-gave gifts  24:56 — Solutions: clarity, standards, and hard conversations  27:38 — Challenge of the week & closing  What We Cover  Why 70% of team engagement variance traces back to the manager (Gallup)  Global engagement dropped to 20% in 2025 — the lowest since 2020, costing an estimated $10 trillion in lost productivity  Manager engagement fell from 27% to 22% in one year, the steepest single-year drop on record  Only 47% of employees strongly agree they know what's expected of them at work (down from 56%)  The most common culture complaints leaders bring to coaching: repeating themselves, lack of ownership, feedback treated as an "emotional event," title-and-money-without-responsibility, and "I'm the only one who cares"  Why hiring your way out of a bad culture is expensive and doesn't work  Breaking down "entitlement culture": unrealistic promotion timelines, feedback received as attack, negotiable standards, and confusing boundaries with excuses  Why blaming "generational" problems oversimplifies the real issue — and what actually shaped today's workforce (job security, pension loss, corporate loyalty erosion)  A real client story: how over-gifting created entitlement instead of loyalty  Practical solutions: communicating expectations 5-7 times, not avoiding hard conversations, and tying rewards to real achievement  Leave us a voicemail or send us a text at ‪(615) 864-0359‬ to ask a question or share your West Moment! This week's challenge is to identify the one behavior on your team that frustrates you most, ask yourself if you have ever clearly articulated it as a problem, then bring it up directly and have the hard conversation.  --   Connect With West:   Free, Weekly Leadership Insights for Orthodontists - Sign up for Beyond the Brackets here!   Free, Weekly Leadership Insights for Business Leaders - Sign Up for Beyond the Boardroom here!  West’s website: ⁠https://www.Westofperfection.com⁠   Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/westofperfection/⁠   LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/west-of-perfection/⁠   Work with us: ⁠https://www.westofperfection.com/services⁠

  4. Jul 30

    How to Overcome Imposter Syndrome | Ep. 13

    Confidence: you’re either born with it or you’re not. This week’s episode proves why this belief is totally wrong. Erin and Mary Katherine explore just how deeply imposter syndrome permeates today’s workforce and how leaders at every stage, from emerging careers to the C-suite, can build the confidence needed to overcome it. Instead of settling for confidence that depends on the praise or complements of others, today’s episode will enable you to begin the journey of building internal confidence that’s far stronger than what you might be used to.  0:00 – Welcome & West Moment  1:01 – Topic intro  2:46 – Confidence as a byproduct  4:05 – Imposter syndrome as the leader  6:31 – Important stats around imposter syndrome  9:35 – Internal vs external confidence  15:13 – West’s framework for overcoming imposter syndrome: Courage → Competence → Confidence  23:15 – Client story: trading in job hopping for authentic confidence  25:27 – Challenge of the week  What we cover:  Imposter Syndrome: where it comes from, how it shows up, and how to overcome it  Important stats around imposter syndrome: 70-92% of people experience imposter syndrome; 71% of US CEOs report imposter syndrome; 65% of senior level leaders report experiencing imposter syndrome while only 33% of early career professionals report experiencing it; 44% of women and 49% of men report experiencing it  The difference between internal and external confidence  How competence and confidence are closely related, but not the same thing  A 3 Part Framework to build your confidence in the office and beyond  --  Leave us a voicemail or send us a text at ‪(615) 864-0359‬ to ask a question or share your West Moment! This week's challenge is to pick an area of your life that you want to grow in confidence and make one act of courage towards that goal this week.  --   Connect With West:   Free, Weekly Leadership Insights for Orthodontists - Sign up for Beyond the Brackets here!   Free, Weekly Leadership Insights for Business Leaders - Sign Up for Beyond the Boardroom here!  West’s website: ⁠https://www.Westofperfection.com⁠   Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/westofperfection/⁠   LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/west-of-perfection/⁠   Work with us: ⁠https://www.westofperfection.com/services⁠

  5. Jul 23

    Patterns of Bad Leadership | Ep. 12

    We’ve all worked for bad leaders, but it’s an issue that runs deeper than you might think. It’s an integrity problem with real, costly consequences. This week, Mary Katherine and Erin dig into five recognizable patterns of bad leadership that erode trust, damage culture, and drive good people out the door. From favoritism and broken promises to loyalty used as a control tactic, this episode is dedicated to everyone currently navigating a tough boss or toxic workplace culture — and to leaders willing to take an honest look in the mirror.  0:17 — Welcome & episode dedication  1:49 — Bad leadership as an integrity problem  3:19 — Culture erosion and rebuilding trust  4:26 — Pattern #1: Different rules for different people  8:38 — Pattern #2: Leaders exempting themselves from the rules  11:37 — Pattern #3: Broken promises (promotions, raises, comp time)  14:35 — Pattern #4: Controlling people through loyalty  19:25 — Pattern #5: The good old boys club gone bad  22:41 — Challenge of the week & closing thoughts  What We Cover  Why bad leadership is fundamentally an integrity issue, not just an inconvenience  How quickly culture erodes without intentional leadership — and how long it takes to rebuild  Pattern #1: Different rules for different people (favoritism)  Pattern #2: Leaders and executives exempting themselves from the rules  Pattern #3: Making promises you don't keep (promotions, raises, comp time)  Pattern #4: Controlling people through loyalty  Pattern #5: The good old boys club gone bad  --  Leave us a voicemail or send us a text at ‪(615) 864-0359‬ to ask a question or share your West Moment! This week's challenge is to be honest with yourself: are you displaying any patterns of bad leadership?  --   Connect With West:   Free, Weekly Leadership Insights for Orthodontists - Sign up for Beyond the Brackets here!   Free, Weekly Leadership Insights for Business Leaders - Sign Up for Beyond the Boardroom here!  West’s website: ⁠https://www.Westofperfection.com⁠   Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/westofperfection/⁠   LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/west-of-perfection/⁠   Work with us: ⁠https://www.westofperfection.com/services⁠

  6. Jul 16

    The Leadership Decision Bottleneck | Ep. 11

    In today’s episode, Erin and MK describe how bottlenecks create decision fatigue, reduce collective brainpower, and build a dependent culture. The opposite extreme—over-delegation or abdication—can also hide critical issues. Stories include an unreported outage that threatened payroll, an interrupted client meeting to fix a broken soap dispenser, and an employee unable to commit to buying a chair for nine months. The hosts then explain 4 skills you need to master so that you can move past the leadership decision bottleneck.  0:00 – Welcome & West Moment   1:01 – The Decision Bottleneck   5:13 – Real Stories: Two Extremes   9:46 – Skill 1: Delegation   12:52 – Skill 2: Training Your Team   15:12 – Skill 3: Clarifying Expectations   19:10 – Skill 4: Building Communication Rhythms  21:56 – Challenge of the Week  What we cover:  The Decision Bottleneck — Why the skills that get you promoted can quietly stall your organization  Real Stories: Two Extremes — A payroll crisis from being too hands-off, and a soap-dispenser meltdown from being too hands-on  Skill 1: Delegation — Why delegation isn't a personality trait, and how to build trust incrementally  Skill 2: Training Your Team — Reframing training as an investment, not a cost, of your time  Skill 3: Clarifying Expectations — Why you have to repeat yourself (a lot) for expectations to stick  Skill 4: Building Communication Rhythms — Creating predictable channels so your team isn't interrupting you constantly  -   Leave us a voicemail or send us a text at ‪(615) 864-0359‬ to ask a question or share your West Moment! This week's challenge is to identify one task currently on your plate and delegate it to a team member this week.  --   Connect With West:   Free, Weekly Leadership Insights for Orthodontists - Sign up for Beyond the Brackets here!   Free, Weekly Leadership Insights for Business Leaders - Sign Up for Beyond the Boardroom here!  West’s website: ⁠https://www.Westofperfection.com⁠   Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/westofperfection/⁠   LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/west-of-perfection/⁠   Work with us: ⁠https://www.westofperfection.com/services⁠

  7. Jul 9

    The Leadership Summit You Can’t Miss | Ep. 10

    In this episode of the West of Perfection podcast, hosts Erin Van de Voorde and Mary Katherine Wathen pull back the curtain on their annual Elevate the Conversation Leadership Summit — why they created it, what makes it different from typical conferences, and who's speaking at this year's event on October 20th in Lexington, Kentucky. 0:20 — Welcome back & episode intro1:10 — The three problems that led to creating the Summit3:46 — Why there are no keynotes5:33 — Table discussions explained6:36 — The networking ROI7:37 — New this year: breakout rooms10:34 — 2026 speakers15:41 — Who should attend16:49 — Challenge of the week & closingWhat we cover: Origin story: The Summit was born from three core problems leaders face — loneliness at the top, lack of accessible A-list speakers in the region, and too many passive, inspiration-only events without real formation.Event designed around "Less talking at, more talking with": No keynotes — instead, live on-stage conversations between high-level leaders on deep topics. Table discussions where speakers sit with attendees after each session to make the experience active, not passive. Breakout rooms — attendees pick two deep-dive sessions (12–40 person rooms) on topics like team building, frontline leadership, and work-life capacity.Speaker lineup: Jay Bilas (ESPN, Duke basketball), Pat Lencioni (bestselling author, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team), Jimmy Kirchdorfer (ISCO CEO, Valhalla Golf Club co-owner, 2024 PGA Championship chair), Coach Craig Skinner (UK volleyball, national championship-winning coach), General Maryanne Miller (retired USAF four star general who commanded 100,000+ people, managed a $15B operation), and Andreas Widmer (CUA, former Swiss Guard, entrepreneurship expert)ROI stories: One company hired four people they met at a past Summit; another closed a six-figure deal with a connection made thereWho should attend: Founders, owners, entrepreneurs, C-suite executives, leadership teams-- Tickets are limited, so visit the website to reserve your ticket or company’s table today!   -- Leave us a voicemail or send us a text at (615) 864 0359 to share your West Moment! This week's challenge is to reflect on how are you growing yourself as a leader? What are you doing to pause, fill your own cup, and invest in your own development — rather than only pouring into others? --  Connect With West:   West’s website: https://www.Westofperfection.com   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/westofperfection/   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/west-of-perfection/   Work with us: https://www.westofperfection.com/services

  8. Jul 2

    Are You Abdicating Your Leadership? Ep. 9

    MK and Erin unpack the "abdication of leadership" and share a real coaching story of how one leader learned to take responsibility, set boundaries, and lead with humility instead of control. 0:00 — Intro0:16 — West Moment: rediscovering art and the Renaissance1:13 — First season, listener Q&A line, and today's topic: abdication of leadership2:45 — Two patterns of abdication: avoidance vs. self-promotion11:57 — Why vulnerability at the top drives culture18:05 — The real question: "What is my responsibility here?"20:15 — How to work for an avoidant or controlling leader?21:41 — Coaching story: moving from anger to humility and courage24:51 — The whole-person approach: not putting all fulfillment in one place26:05 — Wrap-up and challenge of the weekWhat we cover: The two faces of abdicated leadership: straight-up avoidance (staying quiet, deferring, tolerating subpar behavior) and self-promotion (needing to always be right, chasing power/importance instead of serving the team).Leading yourself first: before diagnosing "that leader's" problems, the first move is always looking in the mirror. The fastest way to build trust and culture is for the leader to model vulnerability first ("I take responsibility," "what can I do better?")Recommendation — rupture and repair: conflict and misunderstanding are normal in every relationship; what matters is the repair (owning mistakes, asking forgiveness, starting again)Recommendation — for employees under a difficult leader: you can't control your boss, but you can control how you show up — take responsibility for your own part without absorbing responsibility that belongs to someone else, and build a "whole-person" identity so work isn't your only source of fulfillment.-  Leave us a voicemail or send us a text at (615) 864 0359 to share your West Moment! This week's challenge is to ask, where can you set your ego aside, step into the middle ground, and look honestly in the mirror to become a healthier, more responsible leader — one who does not avoide or self-promote? --  Connect With West:   West’s website: https://www.Westofperfection.com   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/westofperfection/   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/west-of-perfection/   Work with us: https://www.westofperfection.com/services

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5
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About

Most leadership development treats people like problems to be solved. West of Perfection believes that growth starts from the inside out — with the person, not the performance. Join Erin Van de Voorde and Mary Katherine Wathen for honest conversations about what it actually takes to lead well: at work, at home, and in the in-between moments where the person is formed.

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