This episode is personal — Karen's guest is her husband, Michael. Fresh out of seminary, the two of them once wondered how they'd ever minister to people in real pain, since their own life had felt easy. That question got answered fast: years of infertility treatments ending in the news they'd never conceive naturally, a first pastorate in New Jersey that collapsed after four months, and an unexpected pivot back into engineering that Michael now calls their "30-year desert." A decade later came a mysterious, undiagnosed inflammatory condition that put Michael in near-constant pain for ten years — and around the same time, the family adopted two infants, unaware that every adopted child carries early trauma. When one of their kids hit puberty and the family cycled into crisis, Michael says, that was rock bottom. In this conversation, Michael and Karen talk about "the wall" — the concept from writers like Peter Scazzero and Janet Hagberg, where hardship either stops you cold or reshapes you into someone who can get through it — and how a COVID-era study of gratitude taught them the difference between reading about God's goodness and actually sitting in it. Michael shares the moment he now points to as his turning point: at his lowest, betrayed and rejected by yet another church, he heard God say four words in his soul — "I know. Me too." He also talks about discovering The Other Half of Church by Michael Hendricks and Jim Wilder, the small, untrained house-church couple who taught him more about love than decades of ministry training, and a visualization practice built on John 10:10 that pictures him safe in Jesus' sheepfold with the Good Shepherd's back to the door. Michael's new book, In the Wake of Jesus: Grace That Changes You and the World, releases September 8, 2026 (pre-orders open August 8). In it, he names three "postures of defeat" many Christians fall into — resigned, angry, and what he calls "trench Christian" — versus the three postures of Jesus: humble before God, unshakeable before evil, and inviting to the world. His closing word for listeners: draw near to Jesus not just with your head, but by taking the risk to bring Him what you actually have, even when it feels like it isn't enough. Connect with Michael: Book: In the Wake of Jesus: Grace That Changes You and the World (releases September 8, 2026; pre-order opens August 8, 2026) — search "Michael G. Dittman" (the "G" matters — there's another author with the same name)Website: michaelgdittman.com 4. Timestamps [00:00] Introduction [00:55] 30 Years of Impossible: Where Do We Start? [01:57] The Infertility Battle [02:47] A First Pastorate That Lasted Four Months [04:09] Ten Years of Undiagnosed, Constant Pain [05:04] Adopting Two Traumatized Infants [05:51] Hitting Rock Bottom as a Family [06:12] The Wall: Where Life's Forge Meets God's Grace [08:31] The COVID Gratitude Project [11:20] Betrayed Again — and Meeting Jesus at the Cross [11:52] "I Know. Me Too." [13:54] Discovering The Other Half of Church [16:47] The Untrained Couple Who Taught Him Love [18:37] Safe in the Sheepfold: A John 10:10 Visualization [21:23] Announcing In the Wake of Jesus [22:22] The Three Postures of Defeat [26:15] Becoming a "Soul Warrior" [28:29] The Three Postures of Jesus [31:53] Draw Near to Jesus: The TakeawayWant to be a guest on The GraceForge Podcast? Send Karen Dittman a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1733503318442796293a1fecb