The Legal Growth Table

Barbara Koenen-Geerdink and Andrew Hutchinson
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Every two weeks, we bring a new growth leader to the table for an open, honest conversation about what it really takes to grow a law firm. No fluff, no jargon, just real stories and practical insights from the people driving growth at firms around the world. From business development strategy and client relationships to leadership challenges and the role of technology, The Legal Growth Table explores the topics that matter most to growth-minded legal professionals.

Episodes

  1. May 27

    1.5 Liz Sobe: Client Listening is Client Intelligence

    Barbara and Andrew are joined by Liz Sobe, Head of Business Development at Robinson and Cole, a full-service firm of 200 lawyers with a global footprint. Liz has spent 30 years in business development and client relations across professional services. She once took a sabbatical to help a national toy retailer launch a .com, but growth in professional services is where she has always returned. This conversation is about what it really means to listen to clients, and why most firms are doing far less of it than they think. Liz opens with the three phrases she hears from attorneys that signal both risk and opportunity: “this works for me”, “this is how I have always done it”, and “my clients love me.” She explains why she no longer calls it arrogance when partners push back on client listening. It is fear: the fear of what they might find out. And she makes the case that the right response is not confrontation but education. She walks through six categories of clients that deserve active listening attention, from high-growth potential accounts to at-risk clients to market bellwethers, and explains why the follow-up is “probably the most important part” of any programme. She also makes a case for breadth: client listening is not a feedback interview. It is journey mapping, net promoter surveys, end-of-matter debriefs, lateral onboarding, and every conversation in between. She leaves us with a line that reframes everything: “It is a people business with law built in.”

    32 min

  2. May 13

    1.4 Robin van Keeken: The Outbound BD Role

    Barbara and Andrew are joined by Robin van Keeken, Senior Business Development Manager at Buren, a mid-size international law firm in the Netherlands. Seven years ago Robin pitched his firm on an idea that still feels unusual in the legal sector: an outbound business development role. Buren gave it a go, and in his own words, "we have proven that outbound for business development can work." Robin talks openly about why sales in a law firm is not a dirty word but a conversation, why pipeline is always a joint effort across partnership, marketing and business development, and why he would rather listen than pitch. He shares the story of a Rotterdam CFO who mentioned in passing that his company was "also doing some work in China," and the acquisition that followed two months later from a single moment of real listening. He walks us through the International Legal Counseling Community Buren is now building, and leaves us with a line about client experience in the legal industry that every firm should hear: the CMO of a major bank whose last contact with his law firm was the invoice.

    36 min

  3. Apr 29

    1.3 Mike Mellor: Systems That Drive Growth

    Barbara and Andrew are joined by Mike Mellor, legal BD consultant and former co-head of proposals at Paul Weiss. Mike spent his early career in professional services marketing at the Big Four, including a formative stretch on a KPMG deal team, before moving into legal where he quickly realised a lot of people were "winging it" through an apprenticeship method. Over the last year and a half he has built his consulting practice on one simple idea: systems. In this conversation Mike talks about what the Big Four has figured out that law firms mostly have not, starting with investment and training. Why he believes "attorneys talk in features and clients care about benefits," and why the real unlock is a shared language and a shared playbook across the firm. He shares an honest failure story from his first month at a firm when a firm-wide policy rollout was met with "laughter coming down the hall," and the lesson it taught him about working with the coalition of the willing rather than the 14 million dollar rainmaker on day one. He also lays out a practical, phased playbook for anyone walking into a new BD seat: observe first, fix the data, run small pilots, and walk into every partner meeting armed. If you work in legal BD, this one is honest, systematic, and full of lessons from both sides of the Big Four and Big Law divide.

    41 min

  4. Apr 17

    1:2 Jean Muller: Entering New Markets

    Barbara and Andrew are joined by Jean Muller, Executive Director of Global Markets at Khaitan & Co, one of India's leading law firms, and a former diplomat who served as France's youngest Foreign Trade Advisor in India and Singapore.Jean brings a rare perspective to this conversation. He talks about what it really takes to enter a new market, whether that means a new geography or a new focus area, and how to align internal stakeholders when a firm is pushing into unfamiliar territory. He shares his thinking on combining homegrown talent with new hires to build a team that can actually deliver, and offers a fascinating inside view on how Indian law firms are preparing for the arrival of international big law.

    33 min

  5. Mar 25

    1.1 Chris Newman: Building a Sales-Engine in Law Firms

    Barbara and Andrew are joined by Chris Newman, who has led sales enablement at McDermott and Mintz, amongst others. This conversation is packed with the kind of hard-won thinking you rarely hear so openly shared. Chris walks through how he built pipeline management, ideal client profiles, white space analysis, and a dedicated new logo targeting team, and how he launched a digital products function that rethought what BD value looks like inside a law firm. If you work in legal BD, you will come away with new ideas on sales culture, teaching lawyers the science behind business development, and using AI as a thought partner. The Legal Growth Table at its best: real energy, no filler, and plenty to take back to your desk. One to listen to twice.

    39 min
  6. 1.0 Setting the Table

    Mar 11

    1.0 Setting the Table

    Before the guests arrive, the hosts take a seat. In this opening episode, Andrew Hutchinson and Barbara Koenen-Geerdink introduce themselves, the podcast, and the moment the legal industry finds itself in. Why are we still in the early stages of a much bigger shift? What challenges are coming that most firms aren't ready for? And why does data, not technology, sit at the foundation of any AI strategy worth building?

    23 min
  • 6 Episodes

About

Every two weeks, we bring a new growth leader to the table for an open, honest conversation about what it really takes to grow a law firm. No fluff, no jargon, just real stories and practical insights from the people driving growth at firms around the world. From business development strategy and client relationships to leadership challenges and the role of technology, The Legal Growth Table explores the topics that matter most to growth-minded legal professionals.

Information

  • Creator
    Barbara Koenen-Geerdink and Andrew Hutchinson
  • Years Active
    2K
  • Episodes
    6
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Barbara Koenen-Geerdink and Andrew Hutchinson
  • Show Website
    The Legal Growth Table