Living Dharma —a conversation within our shared habitat

Shoukei Matsumoto
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Caring for our habitat. Listening to our voices. Becoming good ancestors. Living Dharma is a conversation within our shared habitat. Shoukei Matsumoto is a Buddhist practitioner and thinker in Japan’s Pure Land tradition — a path that, since Shinran, has been walked not in the monastery but in the midst of people’s everyday life. In this podcast, he sits down with thinkers, faith leaders, philosophers, and fellow seekers from around the world — to speak not from their titles, but from somewhere deeper. Each conversation begins with a simple question: how do we live with presence, responsibility, and care — now, and for those who come after us? As the human-centered age gives way to a wider belonging, we listen across traditions for a people’s Buddhism: not a religion to believe in, but a way of being awake, together, in the one habitat we share. Voices from Japanese Buddhism, rarely heard in English, are part of this commons too. Conversations here try to happen in the middle voice — the place between active and passive, where speaking and listening are not entirely done by separate parties, but arise between us. The Japanese tradition has its own word for this kind of happening: jinen — "of itself, so." --- sound cooperation --- Opening shō (Japanese mouth organ)｜Junpei Otsuka / orin (Japanese singing bowl)｜Syouryu Ending piano｜Nozomu Takahashi 　 　 www.living-dharma.com

Episodes

  1. Aug 17

    TORYO ITO— Living Zen

    In this episode of Living Dharma, Shoukei Matsumoto sits down with Toryo Ito, a Rinzai Zen monk and vice-abbot of Ryosokuin, a temple in the Gion district of Kyoto with six hundred years behind it. He has led more than two hundred thousand people in zazen, and has opened the temple’s rooms to contemporary artists. The conversation was recorded on a rainy morning, in a room that opens onto the garden. Toryo describes what visitors from abroad are looking for when they come to sit in Kyoto. Then he goes back to his first task after returning from the training monastery, which was to sort the scrolls, screens and ceramics kept in the temple storehouse. Everything now called heritage, he realized, had been contemporary work in its own time. That is where his phrase “Living Zen” comes from. He speaks about leading meditation as something closer to fermentation than to instruction. You prepare the space, you care for it, and then the outcome is not yours to control. In his tradition, karma faces the future rather than the past, because today’s action is a seed. And after years of sweeping the same monastery floors, he found that the wood is a slightly different temperature each morning. In Japanese, the word for Buddha, hotoke, sits close to the word for loosening, hodokeru. That is much of what this conversation is about. TORYO ITO Vice-Abbot of Ryosokuin Temple Born and raised at Ryosokuin in Kyoto’s Gion district, he was ordained under the guidance of his grandfather, the temple’s 22nd abbot. After undergoing training at the Kenninji sect’s specialized monastic dojo, he became vice-abbot in 2007, assisting his father, the temple’s 23rd abbot. He has guided over 200,000 people in Zazen both in Japan and abroad, and has introduced new approaches to temple visits at Ryosokuin—most notably through contemporary art exhibitions—bridging the temple’s 600-year history with the present day. His international engagements include leading Zen sessions at Meta (formerly Facebook) headquarters in the U.S., as well as in various parts of Europe and Asia. He is also involved in a wide range of modern initiatives: co-developing the meditation and Zen philosophy app “InTrip,” launching “XEXE,” a platform proposing contemporary interpretations of the tea ceremony, and collaborating with design hotels, fashion labels, and lifestyle brands. In 2023, he was named one of Forbes JAPAN’s “Next 100” and one of Newsweek’s “100 Japanese People the World Respects.” He is also an active writer, contributing to magazines and online media, and is the author of “Boga Shiko: Isshomono no Tou Gijutsu” (Selfless Thinking: The Art of Lifelong Inquiry, published by Nikkei BP). More from TORYO ITO: * BOOKBōga Shikō “Thinking Beyond the Self” (2023 Japan, Nikkei BP) * HPhttps://ryosokuin.com/https://toryoito.com/service My guest today is TORYO ITO — A Rinzai Zen monk and practitioner of applied Buddhism, exploring how Buddhist wisdom and Japanese aesthetics can help us navigate the challenges of contemporary life. Conversation July 2026 Shoukei:Welcome to this podcast, Toryo-san. Toryo:Hello, Shoukei-san. Shoukei:I’m very glad to be here at Ryosokuin, a very beautiful temple in Kyoto. And I think today is one of the best days. Actually, every day should be the best day. But it’s raining, and that makes the moss and the stones even deeper. Toryo:Yes, the green has become very vivid. Shoukei:Very beautiful. It’s been a while since we last met. We first met on a journey to Bhutan. Toryo:Yes, that was the first time. Maybe I had seen you in a magazine or in the news, but that was the first time we met in person. Shoukei:You are in the Zen tradition, specifically the Rinzai school. And I am in the tradition of Nembutsu, Pure Land. Your practice is sitting. My practice is more about chanting, and actually listening, listening to the voice of the Buddha. But anyway, we share the same Mahayana Buddhism here in Japan, and we are both living in Kyoto. So this is a casual conversation. My intention is, I have no intention, actually. But I hope the audience can sense something out of your life and your voice. Where do we start? Toryo:Let me introduce myself a little. In recent years we have been looking for how Zen practice can meet contemporary society. Our activities include zazen meditation, for individuals, for society, for international retreats, and also memorial services and hosting art exhibitions. Shoukei: I see. The memorial services are, I guess, almost only for Japanese, the supporting members of this temple. Toryo:Yes, exactly. Maybe ninety-nine percent Japanese. Some are Japanese living in other countries. But no international members. Shoukei:That’s an interesting part. For Japanese, temples are the places where we pray for our ancestors, or the place for funeral ceremonies. But for people from other countries, a temple is a kind of meditation center, or an art gallery. So you are living among a very different variety of visitors. Toryo:Yes. Now we have many requests from overseas for private group meditation sessions. They already have experience sitting in their own countries, and Japan seems to be a kind of legendary space for meditation, especially a trip to Kyoto, to have a special meditation session. It’s like sushi. They eat sushi in their own country, but they really want to know what itamae sushi is, the counter style. That’s different from the adapted sushi restaurant. Local, pure, genuine. So when they meditate in their country, they want to have a genuine meditation session in Kyoto, at a temple. That’s why we get so many requests. That’s my sense of it. Shoukei:I can imagine. What is your impression of their experience here? Toryo:They enjoy this environment a lot, because normally they don’t have gardens with such a long history in front of their sitting place. In a Zen center, it is probably inside a building. They sit facing each other, they don’t let so much air come in, and they don’t hear the voices of birds where they sit. But here there are very few boundaries between the inside of the building and the external space. So they feel they are blending with nature, and with an inherited space. Shoukei:What you say totally resonates with something I have been thinking about recently. When I explain Japanese Buddhism, I sometimes use this word. Japanese Buddhism is like Ambient Buddhism. Toryo:Mm, interesting. Shoukei:You must know ambient music, by Brian Eno, for example. Toryo:Kyoto had, I forget the name, a kind of ambient music festival. Shoukei:Yes. My point is this. Here, Buddhism is not something separated from other things. Buddhism is something embedded in the air, in the ambience of this land, of Japan, of Kyoto, of this habitat. Buddhism is not just about teaching, not just about practicing meditation, not just about culture. Everything is mixed and integrated. In other words, whatever you do in this ambience of Buddhism, what you receive is the idea that nothing is separated. So I can imagine how visitors appreciate this ambience of no separation. Toryo:So the temple can be a site where you first slow yourself down, and then release the tension and the many thoughts in your head. Gradually you step away from your patterns, your bias of thinking. And then you can listen to how nature speaks to you. That shifts how you perceive, how you recognize your surroundings and the relationships around you. That’s what I lead as meditation. I have almost nothing to do for them. I just open the space. I ring the bell, I prepare, and together they open up their senses. Then something happens. Not so much action, but not too passive either. It’s like fermentation. Shoukei:Just like fermentation. You cannot control it. What you can do is only taste it. Toryo:And preparation, and caring. Caring means we have to clean the space before we welcome the guests. That’s a really important part of the preparation, caring for the space. And then preparing good seats, good cushions. When you sit there, it’s necessary to hav… Get full access to Living Dharma: A People’s Buddhism for everyday life. at www.living-dharma.com/subscribe

  2. Jun 8

    Kodo Nishimura— The Teaching and the School Rules

    Kodo Nishimura Kodo Nishimura is a Japanese Buddhist monk, artist, and LGBTQ+ advocate who inspires people to embrace their authentic selves. Through his work as a speaker, author, and activist, he connects spirituality with self-expression and compassion. Born in Tokyo in 1989, he graduated from Parsons School of Design in New York and began his career as a makeup artist, working behind the scenes at Miss Universe and New York Fashion Week. Ordained in the Jōdo-shū (Pure Land) Buddhist tradition in 2015, Nishimura gained international recognition through Queer Eye: We’re in Japan!. He has spoken at UN agencies and universities including Harvard and Yale, and his work has been featured by CNN, BBC, and Vogue. He was also selected as a TIME Next Generation Leader. His memoir, This Monk Wears Heels: Be Who You Are, has been published in nine languages. More from Kodo Nishimura: https://kodonishimura.com My guest today is Kodo Nishimura — a Buddhist monk in the Pure Land tradition, a makeup artist, and an advocate for LGBTQ rights. He joins us from Tokyo and New York, the two cities he moves between. 　 Conversation May 2026 　 Shoukei: Very nice to meet you. Kodo: Nice to meet you, Shoukei-san. Well, I knew about you for a little while, but it’s an honor for me to meet you in person and have a conversation. And I think there are not too many monks who are kind of forward thinking, innovative and paving their own way. So I’m very excited to listen to your ideas and share some of my ideas today. Yeah. Shoukei: Thank you so much. It’s a real honor. Thank you for having me on this podcast as the first guest in this new series. And, you know, I wanted to start something like this to introduce, you know, the multi-dimensional Buddhism in Japan today, introducing the very unique monks like you. Yeah. So, you... how can we start? Kodo: So maybe I can explain who I am. Shoukei: Oh, yes, please. Kodo: So I was born in a temple. My father is a Buddhist monk. My father was actually born on a farm, yeah, in Toyama Prefecture, but his far relative who was a monk didn’t have children, and didn’t have anybody to inherit the temple. So because my father was the second son of the farm, he was not going to inherit the farm. So when he was five, he came to Tokyo to become the next heir of the temple. So he was raised to become a Buddhist monk, and I am his son. Shoukei: Okay. All right. So when you were born, your home was not a farm, already a temple. Kodo: Right. My father grew up in the temple from when he was five, and he went to university, studied Buddhism, became a Buddhist philosophy and history and sutra professor at the university all his life. And I was born in 1989, now I’m 37 years old. Shoukei: So although he was born on a farm, he became a kind of very serious monk. Kodo: Yes. When he was younger he told me that he wanted to be an actor or screenwriter — when I see the albums I see my father dressed up as like a fisherman, or like a samurai, and I think he appeared in some movies or TV shows when he was younger as well, but I think he didn’t have a choice to choose what he wanted to do. So he told me that he didn’t want to be a Buddhist monk, and he fought with his step parents, but now I think he embraces the identity of Buddhist monk. So yeah, and me, I grew up wanting to be a princess because I always knew that I was homosexual. So I think he understands that some children of monks may not want to be Buddhist monks as well, like him. Shoukei: Yeah, yeah. So for the listeners, for those who are not that familiar with Japanese Buddhist culture, you know, monk sounds like, of course, very monastic, but actually Japanese Buddhist monks are more secular. So I sometimes explain I am a secular monk, which might sound a little bit strange, because secular and monk sounds contradictory. Right. But it’s like a small family business. Kodo: It is like a family business. Shoukei: So most of the monks are expected, in a sense, to have children who are going to inherit their temple. So it’s not monastic at all. Even, I’d say, it’s more secular than an ordinary family because the monks are even encouraged to marry. Yeah. So when you are born in a temple as a child who is supposed to inherit your temple, or your family business, so to speak — when you got conscious of your condition and environment, what did you feel? Kodo: I felt very pressured. I feel like my destiny in life was decided by other people. And shaving my head or living a very austere simple life — it was opposite from what I wanted to do. I wanted to have my hair long and, you know, flow my hair in the air like a shampoo commercial. And I felt, well, I’m not going to be what you want me to be. Life is not easy. Just because you have a son, it doesn’t mean that the son is going to be obedient. So I was very rebellious. I always questioned, why do we need Buddhism? Why do we need to pray? What’s so fun about this? And because my father is a university professor, he was able to, not by faith, but by kind of logic and historical perspective, explain this is how Buddhism came to be. Shoukei: So left brain guy. Kodo: Yeah, yes. And you know, as you said, it’s part of the business, which is an unfortunate reality of Japanese Buddhism, because yes, your life is stable and you are respected if you inherit the temple instead of going to a different company and starting from zero, because as long as you are seen as the next heir of the temple, you are respected and you don’t ever lose your job. So a lot of people kind of don’t think of going elsewhere, but just inherit the temple business because it’s easy. And I understand that. I also feel that way too. But because of that, I also have some questions — like some people pay more as offering and they get better treated, or maybe they get a longer kaimyo, which is like the name given to that soul when you pass away. So I also started to focus on some of the injustice or hypocrisy, because everybody is supposed to be equal, right? So I had all these types of thoughts when I was growing up. Shoukei: So I have so many monk friends in Japan, and I’m actually, thanks to the initiative I have been doing — the podcast program, which is basically a conversation with a guest monk and me — the number of guests so far is over 200 or so. So I kind of know how most of the many monks feel when they get conscious of their circumstance growing up. Many of them somehow get the urge of, how can I get out of this temple, my home. Yes, it’s natural for young people, but in your case, the situation might be even more complicated because — when did you get conscious or aware of your gender, and yeah. Kodo: I think I always felt like a girl. When I was maybe two or three years old, I started playing with my mom’s dresses and pearls. And I always, well, I always had stuffed animals, and I would explain to my parents, “Oh, they don’t have gender. They are not a boy or a girl.” And that was a reflection of how I felt about myself. I know that my body is male and I accepted that. I don’t have any problems with that. But I felt like the soul — just like you don’t know if a plushie is a boy or girl — I don’t know if I’m a man or woman inside. But I was sure that I was attracted to other boys. So I started to hide, because even though I was maybe 3 or 4 years old, I knew that it’s not common. And well, I was in the closet until when I was 24 years old. So I always felt like I had to hide and be careful to avoid discrimination. Yeah, in 24 — Shoukei: — you came out. So until then you went through high school life. And your parents, who are in charge of your temple, right? Did you feel any pressure from them around the course of your life? Kodo: I felt pressured. My father, when I was younger, said that once, if you are going to inherit the temple, you would need a wife because it’s a demanding job. And I was like, well, I’m not going to get married to a woman, or will I welcome children? So it’s not going to be like how you w… Get full access to Living Dharma: A People’s Buddhism for everyday life. at www.living-dharma.com/subscribe

  • 2 Episodes

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Caring for our habitat. Listening to our voices. Becoming good ancestors. Living Dharma is a conversation within our shared habitat. Shoukei Matsumoto is a Buddhist practitioner and thinker in Japan’s Pure Land tradition — a path that, since Shinran, has been walked not in the monastery but in the midst of people’s everyday life. In this podcast, he sits down with thinkers, faith leaders, philosophers, and fellow seekers from around the world — to speak not from their titles, but from somewhere deeper. Each conversation begins with a simple question: how do we live with presence, responsibility, and care — now, and for those who come after us? As the human-centered age gives way to a wider belonging, we listen across traditions for a people’s Buddhism: not a religion to believe in, but a way of being awake, together, in the one habitat we share. Voices from Japanese Buddhism, rarely heard in English, are part of this commons too. Conversations here try to happen in the middle voice — the place between active and passive, where speaking and listening are not entirely done by separate parties, but arise between us. The Japanese tradition has its own word for this kind of happening: jinen — "of itself, so." --- sound cooperation --- Opening shō (Japanese mouth organ)｜Junpei Otsuka / orin (Japanese singing bowl)｜Syouryu Ending piano｜Nozomu Takahashi 　 　 www.living-dharma.com

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