Legends in the Law

Randall Spencer

Legends in the Law is a podcast that explores the stories, minds, and moments that have shaped the legal world. Through interviews with legendary lawyers, legal scholars, and deep dives into landmark cases and events, Host Randy Spencer uncovers the lessons, impact, and legacy behind the law.

Episodes

  1. 3d ago

    Judge Tony Schofield: 50 Years of Law, Justice & Lessons from the Bench

    Judge Anthony “Tony” Schofield has spent 50 years in the law—as a pioneering BYU Law student, commercial litigator, respected Utah district court judge, mediator, judicial investigator, and advocate for an independent and accountable judiciary. In this episode of Legends in the Law, host and attorney Randy Spencer sits down with Judge Schofield for a candid conversation about a remarkable legal career and the cases, people, and decisions that shaped it. Judge Schofield was a member of the inaugural class of the J. Reuben Clark Law School at Brigham Young University, attending classes before the current law school building even existed. He recalls studying in an old Catholic school the students affectionately called “St. Reuben’s,” learning under professors determined to establish a first-class law school, and even taking a trusts class from then-BYU President Dallin H. Oaks. After clerking for federal Judge A. Sherman Christensen, Schofield began practicing law in Guam, where a young attorney suddenly found himself working on matters involving major international corporations and financial institutions. He eventually returned to Utah, developed a successful commercial litigation practice at Ray Quinney & Nebeker, and fulfilled a lifelong ambition when Governor Mike Leavitt appointed him to Utah’s Fourth District Court. Judge Schofield shares remarkable stories from his years on the bench—from an unforgettable courtroom on September 11, 2001, to a Utah Highway Patrol officer with an uncanny ability to uncover hidden drugs, to the case involving 88 pounds of marijuana that left a jury deliberating in a room filled with the unmistakable smell of the evidence. But some judicial decisions were anything but humorous. Schofield speaks candidly about the emotional burden of sentencing defendants, particularly in child sexual abuse cases where imprisonment could devastate innocent family members. He also discusses the one sentencing decision that still troubles him nearly two decades after leaving the bench: sentencing a 25-year-old murder defendant to life without parole after the young man committed the crime alongside his recently released father. The conversation also explores something every practicing attorney should hear: how judges evaluate lawyers and the importance of credibility in the courtroom. According to Schofield, once a lawyer earns a reputation for misrepresenting facts or legal authority, rebuilding judicial trust can be extraordinarily difficult. After leaving the bench, Judge Schofield continued working to strengthen Utah’s legal institutions. He served as a special master for the Utah Supreme Court in a judicial misconduct investigation, investigated allegations of ethical misconduct involving a Provo City Council member, and became an inaugural member—and later chairman—of the Utah Judicial Performance Evaluation Commission (JPEC). Judge Schofield explains why he strongly supports Utah’s system of judicial selection and retention, why judicial elections concern him, and why Utah voters should pay attention to judicial performance evaluations before casting their retention ballots. From the beginnings of BYU Law to difficult sentencing decisions, courtroom ethics, judicial independence, attorney credibility, and the search for truth, this episode offers a rare look at the legal system through the eyes of someone who has experienced it from nearly every angle. Topics include:BYU Law School history • J. Reuben Clark Law School • Utah judges • judicial ethics • criminal sentencing • commercial litigation • courtroom advocacy • attorney credibility • judicial selection • judicial retention elections • Utah JPEC • judicial misconduct • mediation • September 11 • Fourth District Court • Utah legal history Subscribe to Legends in the Law for conversations with legendary lawyers, judges, legal scholars, and the people behind the cases and events that shaped the law.

    Judge Tony Schofield: 50 Years of Law, Justice & Lessons from the Bench
  2. 3d ago

    Does Judge Graf Decide Alone in the Charlie Kirk Case? Randy Spencer Breaks Down How Judges Make High-Stakes Decisions.

    Does Judge Tony Graf consult with other judges when deciding motions in the Tyler Robinson case? After a viewer raised that question, attorney and host Randy Spencer explains how Utah trial judges typically evaluate major legal issues—including whether a criminal case should be bound over for trial. Drawing on his own experience clerking for Utah trial judge Lynn W. Davis, Randy describes the role of judicial law clerks, the difference between trial and appellate courts, and why the final decision rests with the presiding judge. He also considers a less visible side of the judiciary: the professional isolation judges can experience while maintaining both impartiality and the appearance of impartiality. This special short episode is part of the Legends in the Law series following the criminal proceedings against Tyler Robinson arising from the shooting of Charlie Kirk. This episode offers legal commentary and general information—not legal advice. Tyler Robinson is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty in a court of law. Subscribe to Legends in the Law for continuing legal analysis of the case. Show Notes: A viewer asks whether Judge Tony Graf works with other judges when deciding motions in the Tyler Robinson case. Randy Spencer answers that the presiding trial judge most likely does not consult a panel of fellow judges—but that does not mean he works without assistance. Drawing on his experience as a judicial law clerk to Utah trial judge Lynn W. Davis, Randy explains: • How trial courts differ from appellate courts• Why the final ruling belongs to the presiding trial judge• How judicial law clerks research legal questions and prepare draft rulings• Why a judge may revise, reject, or supplement a clerk’s analysis• How Judge Graf is likely approaching the pending legal issues• Why maintaining judicial impartiality can create professional isolation• How appellate review and public scrutiny affect judicial decision-making The episode follows Randy’s earlier discussion of the prosecution’s and defense’s bind-over arguments, including whether the State met the probable-cause standard and presented sufficient evidence concerning the alleged aggravating factor necessary to pursue a capital-homicide prosecution. About the series: Legends in the Law is following significant developments in the criminal proceedings against Tyler Robinson arising from the shooting of Charlie Kirk. These special episodes explain the legal questions, courtroom procedure, and arguments presented by both sides. Legal note: This program provides legal commentary and general educational information. It does not constitute legal advice. Allegations discussed in the episode have not necessarily been proven at trial, and Tyler Robinson is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty.

    Does Judge Graf Decide Alone in the Charlie Kirk Case? Randy Spencer Breaks Down How Judges Make High-Stakes Decisions.
  3. Aug 13

    Did Prosecutors Overplay Their Hand in the Charlie Kirk Case?| Randy Spencer Breaks Down the Death Penalty Fight

    In this special episode of Legends in the Law, attorney Randy Spencer steps behind the host’s desk for a solo legal analysis of State of Utah v. Tyler Robinson, the capital murder prosecution arising from the September 10, 2025 killing of Charlie Kirk in Orem, Utah. The State presented roughly a week of evidence at the preliminary hearing. But did that extensive presentation inadvertently give the defense exactly what it needs to challenge the aggravated murder charge—and potentially remove the death penalty from the case? Randy focuses on one critical statutory issue: whether the prosecution presented sufficient evidence that Robinson knew his conduct created a grave risk of death to someone other than Charlie Kirk or himself. He examines the alleged shooting position, distance and trajectory, the prosecution’s “zone of danger” theory, the significance of additional ammunition, a recovered shooting target, and the possibility that the case could reach an appellate court before trial through an interlocutory appeal. The episode ultimately asks a question that could shape the entire prosecution: Should the case proceed as aggravated murder with the death penalty available—or as murder without capital punishment? This episode is legal analysis only and does not presume guilt. Robinson is accused of the charged offenses and remains entitled to the presumption of innocence unless and until proven guilty. Prosecution Memo In Support of Death Penalty and Bindover https://fslaw.filev.io/r/s/7b87aF1bR3hGTaaRHpZOxUKlqoFvdVoTyYaQsdiyX7sb4hiXcRhTvdau   Tyler Robinson Memo Requesting Dismissal of Death Penalty  https://fslaw.filev.io/r/s/7b87fj7QjKyYGkzmswJjMz0BzgWLEhOw8k38Zw45Tings9EUTPx2WMGw The episode explores: Probable cause at a preliminary hearing Aggravated murder versus murder The “grave risk of death” aggravating circumstance Death penalty eligibility Competing interpretations of physical evidence Bullet trajectory and line-of-fire arguments Interlocutory appeals The strategic consequences of building a large preliminary-hearing record Capital appeals and long-term litigation The distinction between probable cause and proof beyond a reasonable doubt Randy closes by asking viewers to analyze the issue themselves: Has the State presented enough evidence to bind the case over as aggravated murder, or should it proceed as ordinary murder without the possibility of the death penalty?

    Did Prosecutors Overplay Their Hand in the Charlie Kirk Case?| Randy Spencer Breaks Down the Death Penalty Fight
  4. Aug 8

    Brent Ashworth: The Attorney & Collector Who Helped Expose Mark Hofmann

    Attorney, historian, and lifelong collector Brent Ashworth has spent decades preserving the personal artifacts that make history feel human. In this episode of Legends in the Law, he shares how a childhood bonfire sparked a collection that grew to more than a million items—and how his fascination with original documents carried him into one of Utah’s most notorious forgery and murder investigations.Brent recounts his unconventional path into the law: surviving a deadly Scout-trip tragedy by changing plans, witnessing the Kennedy assassination era as a teenager, attending law school alongside Ted Bundy, prosecuting cases in Carbon County, and helping establish an early student-practice rule after irregularities surrounding his bar exam. He also describes his years as counsel for Nature’s Sunshine and the moment collector Mark Hofmann entered his life with documents that seemed too important to be true.The conversation turns deeply personal as Brent explains why investigators believed a third bomb was intended for him, how his wife’s intuition kept him away from their usual meeting place, and what finally convinced him Hofmann was a murderer and forger. He closes with the remarkable story of two Abraham Lincoln documents that helped him purchase two family homes—and the enduring counsel in Lincoln’s words: stick to your purpose.Brent’s memoir, Show and Tell: A Unique Journey Through History from the Life of Brent Ashworth, is referenced in the episode. https://www.ebay.com/itm/125815472850 Key Topics Building and managing a historical collection of more than one million items The 1963 Escalante Scout tragedy and a life-changing decision JFK, Robert Kennedy, and the path toward law Ted Bundy at the University of Utah College of Law Early prosecution work and the development of a student-practice rule Bar-exam grading irregularities and eventual admission Legal work for Nature’s Sunshine and dietary-supplement regulation Collecting rare manuscripts and the scarcity of women’s historical letters Mark Hofmann’s forged documents, bombings, and murder investigation Family loss, faith, and service during crisis Abraham Lincoln manuscripts and the value of original documents Content Advisory This episode includes discussion of murder, bombings, suicide, a fatal childhood accident, and the death of a child.

    Brent Ashworth: The Attorney & Collector Who Helped Expose Mark Hofmann
  5. Aug 8

    Laura Cabanilla: The Movie Buffs Obscenity Trial & Military Service

    Before becoming a respected prosecutor and private attorney, Laura Cabanilla served in the U.S. Army Reserve, balancing military service, law school, and raising triplets—all at the same time. In this fascinating conversation, Laura shares stories from her deployment to Kuwait, Iraq, Bahrain, and the Middle East before diving into one of Utah's most unusual criminal cases: the infamous Movie Buffs obscenity trial. Laura and host Randy Spencer found themselves on opposite sides of a landmark First Amendment prosecution that asked one central question: Who decides a community's moral standards? The case became national news, involved Hollywood attorneys, hotel chains, DirecTV, Marriott, and some of the largest corporations in America—and ultimately changed how obscenity prosecutions were viewed in Utah. Whether you're interested in constitutional law, free speech, military service, or Utah legal history, this is an episode you won't want to miss. Topics included: Military leadership and deployment Law school while raising four young children The Movie Buffs obscenity prosecution Community standards under the First Amendment Jury selection and mistrials Hollywood attorneys Marriott, DirecTV, and corporate subpoenas The constitutional limits of obscenity laws Lessons learned from practicing law This episode offers a rare look at one of Utah's most fascinating legal battles from both the prosecution and defense perspectives.

    Laura Cabanilla: The Movie Buffs Obscenity Trial & Military Service
  6. Aug 8

    Mike Esplin Part 1: Defending Gary Gilmore & the Return of the Death Penalty

    What is the role of a criminal defense lawyer when everyone believes the client is guilty? Legendary Utah criminal defense attorney Mike Esplin shares stories from more than fifty years in the courtroom, beginning with the founding of Utah County's first Public Defender's Office before taking listeners behind one of the most historic murder cases in American history. Mike recounts his firsthand experience representing Gary Gilmore, the first person executed in the United States after the death penalty was reinstated in 1976. He explains what it was like serving as court-appointed counsel, handling a client determined to be executed, and navigating one of the most scrutinized criminal trials in modern legal history. Along the way, Mike discusses why every accused person deserves a vigorous defense, what the Constitution demands of criminal defense attorneys, and why protecting the rights of the guilty ultimately protects the innocent. Whether you're interested in criminal law, constitutional rights, or true crime, this conversation offers an extraordinary look inside some of America's most consequential legal battles. Topics Covered Why defense attorneys represent guilty clients Founding Utah County's Public Defender Office Public Defender vs. Private Practice Gary Gilmore The first modern death penalty case Standby counsel in capital cases The Executioner's Song Death penalty appeals Criminal defense ethics Constitutional protections Subscribe for Part 2, where Mike discusses the Lafferty murders, competency litigation, and one of Utah's longest-running capital cases.

    Mike Esplin Part 1: Defending Gary Gilmore & the Return of the Death Penalty

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
3 Ratings

About

Legends in the Law is a podcast that explores the stories, minds, and moments that have shaped the legal world. Through interviews with legendary lawyers, legal scholars, and deep dives into landmark cases and events, Host Randy Spencer uncovers the lessons, impact, and legacy behind the law.