In this conversation, Kenneth Mims speaks with Dr. Katie Strom about her neurodivergence journey, how late diagnosis reshaped her research, and why complexity theory offers a better way to understand neurodiversity than deficit-based models. They also get practical about teacher preparation, masking, scaffolding, assessment, and what real inclusion should look like in classrooms and higher education. Dr. Strom shares how her lived experience, teaching, and writing connect through autoethnography, neuroaffirming practice, and her book Scaffolding the Language of Power. The throughline is clear: if schools want to support neurodivergent learners well, they need to move beyond awareness and into structural, relational, and collaborative change. Key topics Dr. Strom explains her late-diagnosis journey, starting with anxiety and panic attacks in 2018, then ADHD diagnosis in 2023, and autism diagnosis in 2025.She describes how women often mask neurodivergence effectively, which can delay recognition and support.Her research centers on critical post-human perspectives on education and complexity theories on education, with neurodiversity emerging through autoethnography and self-study.Dr. Strom and a neurodiverse student wrote Pebbling Pedagogies, using the idea of “pebbling” as a way to think about care, recognition, and teaching through small meaningful gestures.She contrasts the medical model and social model with a complexity perspective, arguing that neurodivergence is produced through interacting systems rather than a single cause.Dr. Strom says a complexity lens is anti-deficit because it accounts for biology, environment, culture, work demands, trauma, and broader social pressures at once. Timestamps 00:00 - “Are you neurodivergent?” and Katie’s diagnosis journey 00:47 - Anxiety, burnout, and realizing the symptoms were not the root cause 01:44 - ADHD diagnosis, autism diagnosis, and seeking a neuroaffirming assessment 02:37 - How neurodiversity fits into Katie’s broader education research 03:33 - Pebbling pedagogies and using small gestures as a teaching tool 05:40 - Why complexity theory beats the medical model’s either-or thinking 06:34 - From individual blame to systems thinking, genetics, and environment 08:55 - Why complexity is anti-deficit and helps during crises like COVID 10:23 - Moving from autism awareness to appreciation of difference 11:48 - Why diverse systems are stronger, richer, and more adaptive 14:15 - Gaps in teacher preparation and the problem with add-on training 15:39 - New teachers, low support, and turnover in the hardest schools 18:42 - Scaffolding sensory environments to reduce overwhelm 21:32 - Double empathy, communication barriers, and the mind-body split 24:09 - The case for sustained, school-based professional development 26:16 - Masking, unmasking, and what happens when coping strategies stop working 30:28 - Why standardized testing fails neurodivergent and multilingual students 32:20 - Competency-based assessment as a more meaningful alternative 34:58 - Communication autonomy and academic language as a language of power 37:19 - Breaking the dissertation into transparent, teachable genres 41:16 - Why policy must be co-created with teachers and educators 45:29 - Where to find Scaffolding the Language of Power The views expressed are those of the guest, and this conversation is intended for general informational purposes only. This podcast and its associated materials should not be used as a substitute for professional medical, legal, or financial advice. Sponsor Opportunities: Contact info@neurodiversitytoday.com
