De Donkere Kamer (English)

Kaat Celis
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De Donkere Kamer is the podcast for photographers who want to grow, behind the camera and in their business. Twice a week, host and photographer Kaat Celis shares a new episode: one solo conversation with her own reflections on creativity and craft, and one in-depth interview with respected names in international photography, including Anton Corbijn, Christopher Anderson, David Campany, and Harry Gruyaert. Together, these conversations explore what it takes to keep growing as a photographer, creatively and in business. New episodes every week. donkerekamer.com

  1. 12h ago

    #60 - Paolo Woods on photography, research and building long-term projects | De Donkere Kamer Podcast

    What do you do when a subject simply isn't photogenic? Paolo Woods, born in The Hague and raised in Florence, built his entire career around that question. From an investigation into the oil industry to a book on tax havens and the five-year project Happy Pills on the pharmaceutical industry, he keeps choosing subjects where his first reaction is "oh no, what am I actually going to photograph here." In this episode, recorded during Les Rencontres d'Arles, Paolo talks about why research is his most important tool, how his mother unknowingly shaped his obsession with text and image, and why he spent four years as artistic director of the photography festival Cortona On The Move. Intro I recorded this episode during Les Rencontres d'Arles, with Paolo Woods: photographer, researcher, and artistic director of Cortona On The Move since 2022. His projects never take the obvious subject. He seeks out exactly the things he first thinks are impossible to photograph. From oil to tax havens to the pharmaceutical industry, he keeps finding a language to make the invisible visible. What you'll learn in this episode Why research is Paolo's most important tool for turning non-photogenic subjects into photographable ones.How he led Cortona On The Move for four years, and why he chose one strong yearly theme instead of "the best of photography."Why a lack of access, as with Federico Vespignani's work on Gaza, can actually produce stronger work.What the five-year project Happy Pills reveals about our obsession with control and happiness.Why, after years of collaboration, he's now working on his first fully personal, solo project. About the guest Paolo Woods was born in The Hague in 1970 to Dutch and Canadian parents, raised in Florence, and later lived in London, Paris, Haiti and Ivory Coast. He started out running a photography gallery in Florence and then built a career around long-term, research-driven projects: from Un Monde de Brutes (2003, on the oil industry) and American Chaos (2004, on the Western intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq), to Chinafrica on China's expansion into Africa, translated into eleven languages and sold more than 40,000 copies. That was followed by Veil On My Eyes on Iran, The Havens on tax havens (named one of the best photo books of 2015), and Happy Pills, a five-year project on the pharmaceutical industry that grew into a book, a touring exhibition and his first film. Since 2022 he has been artistic director of Cortona On The Move. His work has appeared in eight books and in The New York Times, Le Monde and The Guardian, with exhibitions from the US to China, and he has won two World Press Photo awards. Links and resources Paolo Woods, websiteCortona On The MoveLes Rencontres d'ArlesPrevious episode with Kira Pollack (on AI and photojournalism): #267 on De Donkere Kamer Our partner: Cameranu This episode is brought to you in part by Cameranu. For your own photography gear, whether it's a new lens or a camera you can rely on during a client shoot, their specialists think along with you and give honest advice. As a listener of De Donkere Kamer, you get 10% off your next purchase with code DDK10 Free webinar What growing photographers consistently do differently from everyone else: that's the subject of a free webinar, based on patterns Kaat has seen over the years in top photographers through this podcast, in masterclasses and in 1:1 mentoring. Five things, and how to apply them in your own way. Sign up here Masterclasses Every month, De Donkere Kamer organizes an online masterclass with an international top photographer. August 27, 4:00 PM – Ebrahim Alipour (Iranian documentary photographer and World Press Photo winner) on how to build a project without budget, without access, and without a network.Coming up – Magnum photographer Peter van Agtmael, topic to be announced.You can join live or buy the replay for a small additional fee. All the info here

    #60 - Paolo Woods on photography, research and building long-term projects | De Donkere Kamer Podcast

  2. 5d ago

    #59 - Why that restlessness during your holiday has nothing to do with summer

    Do you feel restless the moment you go on holiday, while your business simply quiets down? In this solo episode, Kaat walks you through the difference between taking rest and actually experiencing it, and explains why a summer income gap is rarely a coincidence. She shares how she finds rest herself, not by sitting still, but by staying in motion, why the classic work-life balance doesn't work for her, and which questions you can ask yourself to figure out what your ideal holiday actually looks like. From there, she dives into revenue planning: how to calculate in advance what buffer you need for your holiday weeks, how to make your photography practice scalable, and why entrepreneurship runs in seasons. She closes with a personal message about belief: what you believe about yourself and your craft eventually becomes your reality. An episode for every photographer who wants more rest this summer, and no more surprise income gaps next year. What you'll learn in this episode What rest means to Kaat personally, and why she doesn't believe in a classic work-life balanceWhich questions you can ask yourself to figure out what your ideal holiday looks likeHow to build a revenue plan so holiday weeks stop causing panicThe difference between an action plan and loose actions like "posting more on Instagram"How to make your photography practice scalable through recurring revenueWhy your beliefs help shape what you actually achieve in your business The Daily Frame – Kaat's summer podcast series, 28 days with 21 short episodes, made to keep photographers moving and creative throughout the summer. €10. Link in the show notes. Our podcast partner! CameranuFor honest advice on lenses and cameras you can rely on during a client shoot. Go to cameranu.be and use code DDK10 for 10% off. Ready to work on your photography or your business? At donkerekamer.com you'll find everything about mentoring, masterclasses and workshops. 1:1 mentoring: donkerekamer.com/mentorMasterclasses: donkerekamer.com/masterclasses

  3. Aug 18

    #58 - From Magnum Photos to the Banlieue: William Keo on building bridges through photography

    Recorded live at Les Rencontres d'Arles, this episode brings you into conversation with World Press Photo winner William Keo, a French photographer born into a family of Cambodian refugees. His work has taken him from NGO assignments in a Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon and the Syrian refugee crisis, to conflict zones in Iraq, Syria, Ukraine and Israel/Palestine, and eventually into Magnum Photos, where he was represented from 2021 to 2024. William talks openly about being an introvert in an industry that rewards extroversion, about the years he spent testing his own limits as a young photojournalist, and about the project closest to his heart: Extra Muros, a deeply personal document of the French banlieue where he grew up. For this project, he received this year's World Press Photo Award. Together, Kaat and William talk about resilience, why photographers are terrible at editing their own work, why he believes a photo book outlasts everything else, and what it takes to build bridges between your images and the people who will never walk into a gallery. What you'll learn in this episode How William turned a low social battery and years of shyness into a way of connecting quickly and honestly with the people he photographs.Why he believes photographers are among the worst editors of their own work, and how an outside eye (Peter van Agtmael among others) reshaped the edit of his portfolio.What three years inside Magnum Photos taught him about identity as a photographer, and why he chose not to pursue full membership.How Extra Muros grew from small chapters shot among friends and neighbours into a World Press Photo-winning body of work about the French banlieue.Why he's convinced a photo book, not an exhibition or a magazine cover, is what actually resists through time. About the guest William Keo (b. 1996, Paris) is a French photographer born into a family of Cambodian refugees. His work explores migration, social exclusion and intercommunity intolerance. He began his career working for NGOs, covering the Syrian refugee crisis, the conflict in Darfur, migration in Europe and the Rohingya humanitarian crisis, before turning to the cycles of violence following the fall of ISIS in Iraq and Syria, and international news including the war in Ukraine and the conflict in Israel and Palestine. He was represented by Magnum Photos from 2021 to 2024. His work has been published in The New York Times, National Geographic, Le Monde, Libération, Vogue and New York Magazine. For his ongoing personal project Extra Muros, documenting the lives of marginalised descendants of post-colonial immigrants in the French banlieue, he received a World Press Photo Award this year. William Keo, website World Press Photo, website MasterclassesWant more input like this? Join our online masterclasses with international top photographers. Next up: Iranian documentary photographer Ebrahim Alipoor on August 27 at 4 PM, on how to plan a project without budget, access or a network. After that, an in-depth class with Pieter van Agtmael. Join live or get the replay for a small additional fee. All info at here Free webinarAfter years of working with top photographers through this podcast, in masterclasses and in 1:1 mentoring, Kaat noticed a clear pattern: the photographers who keep growing all do a handful of things remarkably consistently. In a free webinar, she walks you through those five things and shows you how to apply them in your own way. It's free, and full of insight. Sign up Partner: CameraNUThis episode is supported by CameraNU. Need honest advice on your next lens, or a camera you can rely on during a client shoot? Their specialists think along with you. As a De Donkere Kamer listener, you get 10% off your next purchase with code DDK10 at cameranu.be. If you want to work on your own photography or your business, check out donkerekamer.com. That is where you'll find everything about mentoring, masterclasses and workshops.

    #58 - From Magnum Photos to the Banlieue: William Keo on building bridges through photography

  4. Aug 13

    #57 - What a week at the end of the world does to your photography, your business and the way you see

    What happens when a photographer who's never taught before finally says yes? In this episode, Kaat takes you to Estancia El Condor, 40,000 hectares of untouched land at the foot of the Andes, where in February 2027 she's hosting, together with Dutch photographer Bastiaan Woudt, his very first workshop. Eight spots, one estancia, no phone signal, and a photographer whose work hangs in the Rijksmuseum and the Getty Museum. Kaat talks about the two trips she's already made to this place herself, about the condors with a four-meter wingspan, about why it took her years to convince Bastiaan, and about what happens to the way you see when you're cut off from the world for a week. She also shares what this means for your photography at a time when more images are generated than could ever actually be photographed. An episode for anyone wondering if this is the year to go somewhere almost nobody goes. Bastiaan Woudt has never taught a workshop before. Until now. In this episode, Kaat talks about the very first workshop by this renowned black-and-white photographer, held at an estancia in Patagonia so remote there's no phone signal. Eight spots, a week without distraction, and everything that does to your photography and the way you see. This episode is a personal update on the brand-new photography workshop to Argentine Patagonia that Kaat is hosting in February 2027, together with photographer Bastiaan Woudt. It's the first time Bastiaan has ever opened up his process to a group, and Kaat explains why this place, this photographer, and this moment come together. Why Bastiaan Woudt said no for years, and what finally changed his mind.What makes Estancia El Condor so special: 40,000 hectares, condors with a four-meter wingspan, and zero phone signal.How a week without distraction changes your photography and the way you see.What to actually expect from the workshop, from the daily reviews to the day on horseback.How admission works, what it costs, and how to apply. Bastiaan Woudt is a self-taught Dutch photographer known for his distinctive black-and-white portraits. He shoots for, among others, British Vogue and Harper's Bazaar, and his work is held in the collections of the Rijksmuseum and the J. Paul Getty Museum. You can hear more about him and how he works in episode #248 of the De Donkere Kamer Podcast (Dutch-language). Apply for the workshop (portfolio required)Episode #248, the full conversation with Bastiaan Woudt in DutchBastiaan Woudt, website/portfolioFollow Kaat on Instagram for updates from the estancia: @dedonkerekamer.com_beThe Daily Frame, summer seriesQuestions about the workshop: info@donkerekamer.comCameranu: supplies the gear for the video and visual side of the podcast with the code DDK10 10 off

  5. Aug 11

    #56 - "It's not my voice, it's ours": Shirley den Hartog on carrying Erwin Olaf's legacy forward

    For 25 years, Shirley den Hartog was photographer Erwin Olaf's manager, and today she leads the Estate Erwin Olaf as its director. In this episode, she looks back on his lifelong dream to be exhibited at the Stedelijk Museum in Amsterdam, a wish that came true two years after his death with the exhibition Freedom. Shirley talks about the arrangement that defined their partnership for almost three decades: she took care of the business, he took care of the art. She shares how that trust shaped his work, why she chose not to hire someone else to run his legacy, and what it means to make decisions for an artist who is no longer here. We also talk about the Catalogue she's now building, the ethical questions that come with archiving decades of work, and how she thinks about AI, sustainability and the future of photography. A conversation about trust, freedom and what it means to carry someone's life's work forward, not as a duty, but as a shared voice. What you'll learn in this episode How Erwin Olaf's lifelong dream of a Stedelijk Museum exhibition came true, two years after his deathWhy Shirley never knew what his artworks cost, and how that protected him as an artistWhat changes when you have to make decisions for someone who's no longer there to askWhy she chose to become the visible director of his estate, instead of hiring someone elseHow she thinks about AI, the ethics of archiving and the future of photography "It's not my voice. Our voice was together always. So I think if I talk, it's us always. It's not me. It's not him. It's us." About the guest Shirley den Hartog met Erwin Olaf in 1997 as an intern and became his manager and close friend for 25 years. Since his passing, she has led the Estate Erwin Olaf as director, responsible for his legacy, his foundation and his artistic archive. Free webinarWant to know what the photographers who keep growing all have in common? Join Kaat's free webinar and learn the five things they do remarkably consistently, and how to apply them yourself. Sign up here Masterclass with Ebrahim AlipourWant more? Join our next online masterclass with Iranian documentary photographer Ebrahim Alipour, World Press Photo winner. He'll share how to build a project without budget, access or a network. August 27, 4 PM. Live or replay. donkerekamer.com/masterclasses Partner: CameranuThis episode is brought to you by Camera Nu. Whatever gear you need, their specialists think along with you and give you honest advice. Get 10% off your next purchase with code DDK10 at cameranu.be.

    #56 - "It's not my voice, it's ours": Shirley den Hartog on carrying Erwin Olaf's legacy forward

  6. Aug 6

    #55 - Nadav Kander: The electricity between two pictures

    My guest today grew up in Johannesburg and has lived and worked in London since the 1980s. He started photographing at thirteen and learned part of the craft in the darkroom of the South African Air Force. He won the Prix Pictet in 2009 for Yangtze: The Long River, and that same year The New York Times Magazine dedicated an entire issue to his series Obama's People. In 2019, Steidl published The Meeting, his first book devoted entirely to portraiture. This September, a new exhibition called The Edge of Things opens at FOAM in Amsterdam. We recorded this conversation in his home on Ibiza, and it took a direction I hadn't expected. Nadav Kander talks about the years he spent going back through his archive with curator David Campany, and what it means to let images from different decades speak to each other rather than treating each project as a closed chapter. He explains why he never sets out to tell a story, he makes one, and why a picture is only ever completed once a viewer brings their own history to it. What you'll learn in this episode Why Nadav spent the last few years revisiting his entire archive with David Campany, and what he found there that he had missed twenty years earlierWhy he says "I don't tell stories, I make stories," and what that means for how he shows his workWhat eight minutes with President Obama actually looks like when three hours of preparation come before itWhy stillness and a kind of quiet tension are what make a photograph work for himWhat a childhood memory of being afraid of dark water has to do with his Color Fields work todayHow his wife Nicole's focus on climate science is starting to press on what he photographs next, and why he's struggling to bring that into his work without turning it into documentaryWe also hear about his upcoming trips to Greenland and back to the South Africa he grew up in. About Nadav KanderNadav Kander (born 1961, Tel Aviv) is a photographer based in London since the 1980s. He won the Prix Pictet in 2009 for Yangtze: The Long River, and his portraits of Barack Obama's first administration were the subject of a dedicated New York Times Magazine issue. His first book of portraiture, The Meeting, was published by Steidl in 2019. His work sits between the visible and the invisible, presence and disappearance. Links and resources Nadav Kander's websiteThe Edge of Things, FOAM Amsterdam, opening 18 September through February, info The Edge of Things (book, Thames & Hudson)Dark Line: The Thames Estuary (book, Ghost) This summer: The Daily FrameGrowth matters for you too, so this summer I've put together The Daily Frame, a series of short audio clips, up to 15 minutes, sent to you every workday for four weeks, with tips on creativity, mindset and business. Listen from your beach chair or on a walk and stay in your flow all summer long. It's 10 euros, so don't let the price hold you back. Register here. Free webinar: The 5 things top photographers constantly do to growWant to know the real patterns behind how top photographers create, showcase and sustain their projects? Join my free 120-minute live webinar, where I share the recurring patterns top photographers worldwide use to stay confident, focused, unique and visible, drawn from hundreds of interviews, mentoring sessions and international experience. Reserve your spot

    #55 - Nadav Kander: The electricity between two pictures

  7. Aug 4

    #54 - Back from summer break, with news from the end of the world

    After a full month of summer break, De Donkere Kamer is back. I'm taking you through my summer between France and Belgium, from Les Rencontres d'Arles to a conversation with photographer Nadav Kander in Ibiza, and sharing my big news along the way: a photography workshop in Patagonia and a new season of live shows. At Les Rencontres d'Arles, I felt a photography world wrestling with uncertainty and change, partly because of the heat and the wildfires in the region. From now on, I'm also splitting De Donkere Kamer into two channels: my English interviews, like the one with Nadav Kander, will move to the English podcast channel, while this channel stays Dutch-language. From February 13 to 20, 2027, I'm organizing a multi-day workshop with photographer Bastiaan Woudt at Estancia El Condor in Patagonia, a remote 40,000-hectare ranch on the Chilean border. With a small, international group of eight photographers, I'll combine photography, hiking and horseback riding with sessions on both the creative and the business side of your practice. My autumn and winter are taking shape too. My live shows return on October 16 at Pakhuis de Zwijger in Amsterdam, with among others Nadav Kander, Robin de Puy, Bieke Depoorter and Wilfried de Jong, followed by shows on November 28 at C-Mine in Genk, February 7 at the Minard Schouwburg in Ghent, and April 14 at CC De Factorij in Zaventem. I'm also opening registration for my free webinar: The 5 things top photographers constantly do to grow. In this live, 120-minute session I walk you through the recurring patterns I see in top photographers worldwide, drawn from hundreds of interviews and mentoring sessions, and how you can turn that insight into action in your own work. You can save your spot here This episode comes to you with support from Cameranu. I go to Cameranu for my own gear. They think along with me, from a new lens to a camera I can rely on during a client shoot. As a De Donkere Kamer listener, you get 10% off with code DDK10 Patagonia workshop (February 13-20, 2027) Tickets for the showsCameranu, 10% off with code DDK10

  8. 05/20/2025

    #10 - Lucy Conticello (Director of Photography, M Le Monde) on photojournalism, AI and chairing World Press Photo

    What does it actually take to chair the World Press Photo jury, the most watched photography award in the world? In this episode, I sit down in Paris with Lucy Conticello, Director of Photography for M, the weekend magazine of Le Monde, to find out. Lucy walks me through her unlikely path from studying archaeology in Rome to becoming one of the most respected photo editors in the industry, and why she never wanted to be a photographer herself. We talk about how M balances hard news with fashion and lifestyle, how Le Monde is navigating generative AI in a newsroom (including a mistake that made it into print), and what it was really like to chair this year's World Press Photo Awards jury: the regional voting system, the hidden clicker votes, the two weeks that get under your skin. We also dig into the funding crisis freelance photojournalists face today, and why Lucy believes the industry needs a shared fund to keep important stories alive. A conversation for anyone who wants to understand what happens on the other side of the assignment. What you'll learn in this episode Why Lucy chose editing over shooting, and why she believes most photographers struggle to edit their own workHow M Le Monde balances hard news with fashion, lifestyle and design in one magazineThe difference between traditional AI and generative AI in a newsroom, and why Le Monde bans the latter entirelyWhat actually happens inside the World Press Photo jury room: regional juries, consensus-building, and the hidden voteWhy freelance photojournalists are increasingly self-funding their own stories, and what Lucy thinks needs to changeWhat she looks for in a portfolio review, and why matching photographer to reviewer matters About the guest Lucy Conticello is Director of Photography for M, the weekend magazine of the French newspaper Le Monde. She started her career as a junior assistant photo editor for the Italian news weekly Liberal, before studying photography practice and history in Maine, US, and archaeology and art history in Rome. She has worked with Business Week, The New York Times, Nespresso, Courrier International, the International Herald Tribune, and agencies including SIPA Press, Magnum Photos and AFP. She is a frequent member of international photography juries, including the World Press Photo Awards, where she served as this year's chair, and regularly takes part in portfolio reviews at events worldwide. Partner of this episode Cameranu — for photographers who need more than creativity, also the right gear. Camera Nu's specialists give honest, personal advice on lenses and cameras you can rely on during a shoot. Use code DDK10 for 10% off your next purchase at cameranu.be Free webinar: the 5 consistent habits of top photographers who keep growing. Free, sign up here. Share & explore: if this conversation gave you something, share it with a photographer who might need it. For mentoring, masterclasses and workshops, visit donkerekamer.com.

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De Donkere Kamer is the podcast for photographers who want to grow, behind the camera and in their business. Twice a week, host and photographer Kaat Celis shares a new episode: one solo conversation with her own reflections on creativity and craft, and one in-depth interview with respected names in international photography, including Anton Corbijn, Christopher Anderson, David Campany, and Harry Gruyaert. Together, these conversations explore what it takes to keep growing as a photographer, creatively and in business. New episodes every week. donkerekamer.com

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