The Unpulled Lever

Rod Danan
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Conversations with the higher ed leaders actually acting on career outcomes. Presidents, chancellors, and the people rebuilding how schools get students hired, on what's working, what's stuck, and why. Hosted by Rod Danan. New episodes weekly.

Episodes

  1. Oct 21

    E10 | Which College Programs Survive the New Earnings Test | Dr. Steve Taylor, Vice Chair of NACIQI

    A college program that can't beat a high school diploma on earnings can now lose federal funds for its students. So who pays to keep it open, and which programs survive? Dr. Steve Taylor is Vice Chair of NACIQI, the federal committee that advises the Education Department on accreditation. He also chairs the Academic Affairs committee of Virginia's State Council of Higher Education, which reviews degree programs at every public university in the state, and he is Policy Director and Senior Fellow for Economic Mobility at Stand Together Trust. For a college president, provost or state higher education leader, he sits on both sides of the new accountability rules. Rod Danan and Steve talk about why the new earnings test applies to every program at every school, why a state regulator says it makes his job easier, and why Steve voted against the accreditor for naturopathic medicine programs. They get into why he expects Workforce Pell to disappoint, why graduation rates are easy to game, where earnings data comes from, and what he would do first if he were a college president. They also cover whose job it is to get a graduate hired, why he would not pay $100,000 for his own degree, and the Chamber of Commerce breakfasts his mom took him to when the family couldn't pay for college. His book Together We Climb, written with Jason Janz, comes out November 10, 2026. 00:00 Cold Open 00:38 Why a Pell Kid Now Judges Accreditors 03:00 Why Workforce Pell Will Disappoint 10:08 Fine, Keep It. How Will You Pay? 18:02 Why Graduation Rates Can Be Gamed 21:34 Why NACIQI Rejected an Accreditor 24:26 Every Degree Must Beat a Diploma 32:50 What a College President Should Do Now 38:51 Whose Job Is the Job? 46:03 Together We Climb 49:13 Networking, AI Jobs and Quick Fires Connect with Dr. Steve Taylor Dr. Steve Taylor on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/drstevectaylor Dr. Steve Taylor on X https://x.com/drstevectaylor Stand Together Trust on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stand-together-trust Together We Climb, his book with Jason Janz https://togetherweclimb.org/ Dr. Steve Taylor's site https://www.drstevetaylor.com/ ED2WORK https://www.ed2work.com/ Read The Unpulled Lever newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/the-unpulled-lever-7480618870790307840 The Unpulled Lever is a weekly interview series from Rod Danan on why schools don't act on career outcomes, and how leaders can pull the lever.

    E10 | Which College Programs Survive the New Earnings Test | Dr. Steve Taylor, Vice Chair of NACIQI

  2. Oct 13

    Inside the Largest Nursing School in America | Amelia Manning, President of Chamberlain University

    Nursing has more open jobs than nurses, yet teaching it well is hard. This one is for college leaders, workforce teams, and anyone weighing a nursing career. I sat down with Amelia Manning, President of Chamberlain University, the largest nursing focused institution in the country. She joined in May 2026 after 20 years at Southern New Hampshire University. We talk about why more schools don't start nursing programs, who the typical Chamberlain student is (the average age is 37), and how a BSN opens the door to management and leadership roles in hospitals. Chamberlain runs 27 campuses plus hybrid and fully online options, and its psychiatric nurse practitioner program is graduating 25 percent more students year over year. I also wanted to know what college presidents, provosts, and workforce and nursing program leaders can learn from a health system partnership. Amelia walks through the Chamberlain partnerships with SSM Health and Advocate, where early data shows better persistence for students. We get into the mentoring gap at the bedside, how faculty step in when a student starts to slip, why even nursing grads need help with interviews and networking, and whether AI changes the need for nurses. 00:00 Cold Open 00:44 Why More Colleges Don't Teach Nursing 07:50 The Average Nursing Student Is 37 12:11 From BSN to Nurse Practitioner 14:52 Why the Nursing Gap Keeps Widening 20:54 Hospitals That Pay for Nursing School 26:10 Lessons From Scaling SNHU 32:22 Do Nurses Need Job Search Skills? 36:39 Will AI Replace Nurses? 37:59 Final Thought and Where to Learn More Connect with Amelia and Chamberlain Amelia Manning on LinkedInChamberlain UniversityChamberlain University on LinkedInListen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or the web at https://theunpulledlever.riverside.com/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=e9 Subscribe to the newsletter https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/the-unpulled-lever-7480618870790307840 The Unpulled Lever is a weekly interview series from Rod Danan on why schools don't act on career outcomes, and how leaders can pull the lever. #nursing #highereducation

    Inside the Largest Nursing School in America | Amelia Manning, President of Chamberlain University

  3. Sep 29

    E8 | Job Demand, Career Roadmaps & Adult Learners | Dr. Mike Burkett, Northbridge University

    What changes when a university starts with the jobs a community needs, then works backward to build programs for the people who live there? In Episode 8 of The Unpulled Lever, Rod Danan talks with Dr. James Michael “Mike” Burkett, President of U.S. Operations at Northbridge University, about connecting education to local job demand and designing around working adult students. Burkett describes how employer and community advisory boards inform program decisions, why technical curricula have to keep changing, and how Northbridge’s career roadmap lets students start with a shorter credential and continue toward a degree. Credit transfers are evaluated and approved individually, not guaranteed. They also discuss flexible course formats, proactive support for adult learners, AI in the workplace, and program economics. Connect with Mike and explore Northbridge: Mike Burkett on LinkedInNorthbridge UniversityConstruction Management Career RoadmapThe Unpulled Lever is a weekly interview series about why schools do not act on career outcomes, and how leaders can pull the lever. 00:00 Why job demand should come before market demand 01:51 Building local employer and community input 04:58 Local campuses, national online programs 07:51 How advisory feedback shaped HVAC 09:56 Why curriculum has to keep changing 11:24 A career roadmap from diploma to degree 14:04 Helping students choose a career field 16:32 Night and hybrid options for working caregivers 17:36 The students Northbridge serves 20:30 Flexibility and the adult learner experience 23:19 AI in the curriculum and the workplace 25:34 Career choices amid AI uncertainty 27:38 Why trades and nursing are growing 31:21 How high schools are changing career paths 33:11 Why Florida Technical College became Northbridge 35:04 Where Northbridge plans to grow 36:52 When a program no longer makes economic sense 38:51 What outcome measures may reveal 40:31 How different institutions can adapt and work together 45:01 The career roadmap and student standards 46:05 Quick-fire questions 50:18 Where to follow Mike and Northbridge

    E8 | Job Demand, Career Roadmaps & Adult Learners | Dr. Mike Burkett, Northbridge University

  4. Sep 22

    E7 | Experiential Learning, Career Discovery & Retention | Chris Parrish, Podium Education

    Most universities agree that career outcomes matter. The harder question is how to give every student meaningful work experience before graduation. In Episode 7 of The Unpulled Lever, Rod Danan talks with Chris Parrish, co-founder and president of Podium Education, about building experiential learning into the degree instead of leaving students to compete for a limited supply of internships. Chris explains what experiential learning is, how employer projects can run for academic credit, and how schools can layer career discovery, rotations, and deeper project work from the first year through graduation. They discuss the difference between “roads” careers, where the major points toward the first job, and “rivers” careers, where students need more exposure to discover a direction. The conversation also covers how universities align career and academic leadership, create a front porch for employers, evaluate pilots and vendors, and use high-impact practices as part of a retention strategy. Chris previews an Arizona State University study of about 6,000 undergraduates in which students who completed the Podium experience were between six and ten percentage points more likely to be retained the following year. Connect with Chris and explore the work: Podium Education: https://podiumeducation.com/ Chris Parrish on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-j-parrish Podium Education on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/podiumeducation Podium Education retention research: https://www.podiumeducation.com/research-news University Business coverage: https://universitybusiness.com/here-is-new-proof-that-experiential-learning-works/ The Unpulled Lever is a weekly interview series about why schools do not act on career outcomes, and how leaders can pull the lever.

    E7 | Experiential Learning, Career Discovery & Retention | Chris Parrish, Podium Education

  5. Sep 8

    E6 | Short Credentials, Broken Hiring & Apprenticeships | Kathleen deLaski, Education Design Lab

    The four-year degree is still the default. For a growing number of learners, it is not the only path to a good job. Kathleen deLaski founded Education Design Lab after seeing colleges struggle to respond to MOOCs, boot camps, changing employer needs, and pressure to unbundle the degree. She now serves as the Lab's board chair and writes Who Needs College Anymore? Kathleen explains how community colleges are becoming regional talent hubs, why short-term credentials need to stack toward degrees, and what it takes to build a pathway with learners and employers in the room. She shares the apprenticeship experiment that failed, a behavioral-health pathway that forced employers to rethink entry-level roles, and why the hiring system is breaking under AI-generated resumes. Chapters 00:00 Why Education Design Lab had to exist 04:31 Starting with design sprints at George Mason 06:35 The apprenticeship experiment that failed 08:08 Why community colleges moved first 15:21 Workforce Pell and the outcomes data problem 25:48 How micro-pathways are designed 30:00 Rebuilding the behavioral health pathway 33:34 AI can open up career pathways 38:34 The half-life of skills is getting shorter 43:18 Reimagining hiring with design thinking 45:51 Is skills-based hiring real yet? 48:44 What colleges should stop funding 50:07 The growth is in shorter credentials 51:06 Why Northeastern's co-op model matters 52:19 What an 18-year-old should do now 54:16 Where to follow Kathleen's work Connect with Kathleen LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathleen-delaski-1089012b Substack: https://kathleendelaski.substack.com/ Book: https://www.whoneedscollegeanymore.org/ Education Design Lab: https://educationdesignlab.org/ Education Design Lab on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/education-design-lab/ Education Design Lab on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@eddesignlab/videos Getting students hired is the cheapest retention lever a school has, and almost nobody pulls it. The Unpulled Lever talks to the leaders who can help us learn why and how to fix it. Subscribe for a new conversation every week.

  6. Sep 1

    E5 | Scalable Co-Ops, Career Curricula & College as a Gym | Kemi Jona, Vice Provost of UVA

    Why do universities map every academic requirement while leaving students to improvise the path from campus to work? In Episode 5 of The Unpulled Lever, Rod Danan talks with Kemi Jona, Vice Provost of Online Education and Digital Innovation at the University of Virginia, about building career-connected learning that works for students with real constraints. They discuss why online is not the same as flexible, the hidden operating system behind Northeastern's co-op model, UVA's effort to build a career journey instead of a petting zoo of disconnected platforms, and Kemi's plan to "flood the zone" with employer-connected experiences in classes, capstones, breaks, clubs, and asynchronous programs. The conversation also covers the data plumbing universities need to see who is being left behind, how AI changes the compact between students and colleges, and why Kemi compares college to a gym membership. Connect with Kemi and explore the work: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kemijona/ UVA OEDI: https://oedi.provost.virginia.edu/ AI4VA: https://ai4va.org/ UVA Career Academies: https://oedi.provost.virginia.edu/uva-career-academies Riipen: https://www.riipen.com/ Burning Glass Institute: https://www.burningglassinstitute.org/ The Unpulled Lever is a weekly interview series from Rod Danan, founder of Prentus, on why schools don't act on career outcomes. prentus.com

  7. Aug 25

    E4 | Internships Beat Majors | Brandon Busteed, CEO, Edconic

    An internship matters more than a major for a graduate's odds of landing a good job. Brandon Busteed has the data to back that up. Brandon is the CEO of Edconic and the former leader of Gallup's education and workforce practice. He helped build the Gallup-Purdue Index, a study of more than 100,000 college graduates that asked a question rankings still dodge: which college experiences actually lead to a good job and a good life? In this episode, Brandon joins Rod Danan to explain the six experiences that double the odds of workplace engagement and wellbeing, why fewer than 3 percent of graduates report having all six, and why a university does not need an elite brand or a giant endowment to compete. They also get into LinkedIn's hidden university ranking, the shortage of internships, why paid work is not automatically work-integrated learning, and the uncomfortable truth about Ivy League graduates ending up in business development without ever being taught sales. Chapters 00:00 The Gallup-Purdue question 03:30 Why one university cannot grade itself 11:46 The six experiences that change outcomes 20:18 What a good college outcome actually is 27:04 Why not all work counts as learning 32:05 Career cannot live in an isolated office 35:07 LinkedIn's hidden university ranking 40:33 The job Ivy League graduates end up doing 42:22 The internship supply problem 48:36 Why internships beat majors 50:20 College's local value proposition 54:18 Quick fire and High Point University Getting students hired is the cheapest retention lever a school has, and almost nobody pulls it. The Unpulled Lever talks to the leaders who can help us learn why and how to fix it. Subscribe for a new conversation every week.

  8. Aug 18

    E3 | College Closures, Skills-Based Hiring & Elements of Suck | Michael Horn, Co-Host, Future U

    Michael Horn predicted in 2013 that a quarter of colleges would close. Fifteen percent already have. Now he says a fifth of private colleges will close or merge within ten years, and the schools left standing will win on one thing: whether they actually get their students hired. In this episode, Michael Horn (co-host of Future U with Jeff Selingo, co-founder of the Clayton Christensen Institute, author of Job Moves and Choosing College) joins host Rod Danan to break down why skills-based hiring keeps failing, why 50 to 85 percent of jobs come through networks and not applications, and what new federal accountability rules mean for colleges that can't prove a return on investment. With Michael Horn of @michaelbhorn. Getting students hired is the cheapest retention lever a school has, and almost nobody pulls it. The Unpulled Lever talks to the leaders who can help us learn why, and how to fix it. Subscribe for a new conversation every week.

  9. Aug 11

    E2 | Why "Career Services Must Die" | Andy Chan, VP of Wake Forest

    Andy Chan, VP for Innovation and Career Development at Wake Forest University, joins Rod Danan to explain why more than 200 colleges have sent staff to study his office. They get into his 2013 TED talk "Career Services Must Die", why the boss matters more than the org chart, the ten-minute LinkedIn search that changed a writing class, curiosity conversations instead of networking, and what he'd fund first if he had to rebuild a career office from zero. The Unpulled Lever is an interview series on why schools don't act on career outcomes. New episodes every Tuesday.

    E2 | Why "Career Services Must Die" | Andy Chan, VP of Wake Forest

  10. Aug 4

    E1 | Get Students Hired or Close | Jason Altmire, CEO of CECU

    Jason Altmire, President and CEO of CECU and a former U.S. Congressman, joins Rod Danan to explain why career schools have been graded on job placement for years while most of higher ed never had to answer the same question. They dig into the new federal accountability law, the stigma that still follows for-profit schools, and what actually keeps a student enrolled through graduation. The Unpulled Lever is an interview series on why schools don't act on career outcomes. New episodes every two weeks.

    E1 | Get Students Hired or Close | Jason Altmire, CEO of CECU
  • 10 Episodes

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
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About

Conversations with the higher ed leaders actually acting on career outcomes. Presidents, chancellors, and the people rebuilding how schools get students hired, on what's working, what's stuck, and why. Hosted by Rod Danan. New episodes weekly.

Information

  • Creator
    Rod Danan
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    10
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Rod Danan
  • Show Website
    The Unpulled Lever

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