Merging Wisdom

Merging Wisdom

Merging Wisdom explores faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. Through honest conversations with thoughtful guests and one another the hosts - Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy - aim to seek wisdom wherever it can be found. The goal is not simply to talk about wisdom, but to put it into practice, allowing what we discover to lead to meaningful action, real change, and lives. Merging Wisdom follows the questions that matter across the boundaries that usually keep our conversations apart. Where disciplines meet, wisdom emerges.

Episodes

  1. 2d ago

    Brent Forrester: Writing For The Simpsons And The Values And Power Of Comedy - Ep. 11

    Emmy-winning comedy writer, producer, and director Brent Forrester joins Dan, Sarina, and Joel for a conversation about the wisdom behind the humor. Drawing on his work on The Simpsons, The Office, The Ben Stiller Show, and King of the Hill, Brent shares stories from the writers’ room and the lessons he's learned about comedy, creativity, conviction, and the contradictions that make us laugh. From a deep dive discussion into the "golden era" of The Simpsons and two enduring Conan O’Brien bits to Michael Scott’s self-image and Rainn Wilson’s approach to Dwight, we explore the mechanics and psychology of what makes us laugh. The conversation also moves into faith, questioning authority, the ethics of humor, and the possibility of seeing ourselves - and each other - with less judgment. Plus: Dan presents his Monty Python thesis, Brent offers a nuanced response, and Jack Handey’s Deep Thoughts gets a mixed reception from the hosts. IN THIS EPISODE Finding a first mentor in Susan HarrisThe Simpsons’ "golden era" and the pressure of its writers’ roomLearning the mechanics of comedy and knowing when to trust your instinctsThe two comedy bits Brent gave ConanWriting “Homer vs. Patty and Selma” and “Lemon of Troy”John Swartzwelder’s distinctive voice and the power of visual humorThe Simpsons, Christianity, and the ethical value of questioning authoritySam Harris, spiritual experience, and common ground across different beliefsWhy comedy can communicate difficult ideas without becoming a lectureMichael Scott, ego, and Brent’s “core comic contradiction”Finding Ben Stiller’s character in Mystery MenWhat Rainn Wilson taught Brent about playing a character without judgmentIs Monty Python funny? Cultural context and subjective vs. objective opinions of humorSurprise and misdirection as a comedic utility MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION The Simpsons, The Office, King of the Hill, and The Ben Stiller ShowSusan Harris and The Golden Girls“You Only Move Twice,” “The Springfield Files,” and "Simpsoncalifragilisticexpiala(Annoyed Grunt)cious"David Mirkin, David Cross, Janeane Garofalo, Bob Odenkirk, and Judd ApatowConan O’Brien, and Clutch Cargo“Lemon of Troy,” “Homer vs. Patty and Selma,” Shakespeare’s Henry V, and John SwartzwelderSam Simon, James L. Brooks, and George MeyerSam HarrisStephen ColbertGreg Daniels and Mike JudgeMichael Scott and Rainn Wilson as Dwight SchruteAustin Powers, Inspector Clouseau, and Mr. Furious from Mystery MenMonty Python's cheese shop, and parrot sketchesBea Arthur, Rue McClanahan, and Betty White (The Golden Girls)Jack Handey's Deep Thoughts, and George Meyer’s Army ManBrent’s YouTube channel @ProfessorBFo, Historic Freedomburg, and Thank You for Sharon ABOUT BRENT YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ProfessorBFo Website and comedy writing classes: https://www.brentforrester.com ABOUT MERGING WISDOM Merging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. We seek wisdom wherever it’s found—and explore how what we discover can lead to meaningful action, real change, and a life lived well. Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy. Follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, and join us for conversations where curiosity meets honest reflection. If this episode resonates with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. Merging Wisdom: https://www.mergingwisdom.com #MergingWisdom #BrentForrester #ProfesorBFo #TheSimpsons #TheOffice #KingOfTheHill #Comedy #Humor #Wisdom

  2. Oct 22

    Phil Vischer On VeggieTales, Success, And Evangelicalism – Ep. 10

    What happens when success starts driving the train and what happens when faith becomes tangled up with politics? Phil Vischer, creator of VeggieTales and co-host of The Holy Post Podcast, joins Joel, Dan, and Sarina for a conversation full of insights and hard-earned wisdom from his life and career. Phil reflects on creating VeggieTales and the pressures of early success, losing the company he built, and discovering the difference between working for God and walking with God. Phil and the hosts discuss how American evangelical Christianity became intertwined with political identity, capitalism, and celebrity culture. Along the way, Phil offers a hopeful invitation: return to the teachings of Jesus, love the people in front of you, and discover the sacred in ordinary life. IN THIS EPISODE Bob, Larry, and whether VeggieTales is actually about vegetablesThe dangers of early success without self-awarenessCreativity, calling, and trying to become the next Walt DisneyFamily expectations and the pressure to do “big things for God”Bankruptcy, letting go, and faith without a tidy success storyJoy and the fruit of the Spirit as a different measure of a meaningful lifePhil’s perspective on how evangelical faith became linked to conservative politicsThe Cold War, Christian media, and the formation of a religious voting blocVeggieTales, Left Behind, and the cultural reach of Christian entertainmentDarby, the rapture, and the history behind inherited beliefsWhy Phil describes evangelicalism as a flea market rather than a single institutionReligious freedom, competing platforms, and personality-driven ChristianityReturning to the Sermon on the Mount in an age of fear and outrageCreating small communities of love, justice, and careQuiet faithfulness, everyday responsibilities, and leaving outcomes to God MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION VeggieTales and The Holy PostAndrew Peterson and Randall GoodgameWalt Disney, Ron Howard, MTV, and Toy StoryLogan Storie and his conversation on Merging WisdomBiola University and GuidepostsWheaton CollegePhyllis Schlafly and Barry GoldwaterBilly Graham and William Randolph HearstJerry Falwell, Howard Phillips, Rush Limbaugh, James Dobson, and Focus on the FamilyLeft Behind, The Simpsons, and Saturday Night LiveJohn Nelson Darby, D. L. Moody, and the Scofield Reference BibleJohn Wesley, George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, and Benjamin FranklinPope Leo XIV, Mister Rogers, and Dolly PartonWhat If Jesus Was Serious? by Skye JethaniDallas Willard, Eugene Peterson, and Richard Foster ABOUT MERGING WISDOM Merging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. We seek wisdom wherever it’s found—and explore how what we discover can lead to meaningful action, real change, and a life lived well. Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy. Follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, and join us for conversations where curiosity meets honest reflection. If this episode resonates with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. Merging Wisdom: https://www.mergingwisdom.com Holy Post Website: https://www.holypost.com #MergingWisdom #PhilVischer #VeggieTales #HolyPost #Evangelicalism #FaithAndPolitics #Wisdom #SpiritualGrowth

  3. Oct 15

    Logan Storie And His Journey Of Being An Elite Athlete - Ep. 9

    Logan Storie brings an extraordinary résumé: Division I swimmer at the University of Florida, two-time U.S. Olympic Trials competitor, Team USA modern pentathlete, and U.S. Army officer. In 2015, he set a world record in modern pentathlon’s swimming event. His accomplishments also include an 800-meter freestyle bronze medal at the U.S. Open and back-to-back podium finishes with his teammates at the Best Ranger Competition, second in 2023 and third in 2024. In this conversation, Logan joins Joel Hubbard and Dan Heroy to explore the wisdom behind those achievements: learning to stay calm under pressure, trusting years of preparation, becoming a beginner again, and finding purpose beyond a particular result. From the Olympic Trials to military service, he shares how his understanding of success has shifted from chasing outcomes to valuing the process. We also explore flow state, the ways overthinking can derail performance, and why consistency matters in everyday life. Logan closes with a candid reflection on his own experiences with anxiety and depression, the importance of seeking help, and what keeps him moving forward as an athlete, soldier, husband, and father. IN THIS EPISODE • Growing up in a family of competitive swimmers and developing a drive to improve • What individual competition teaches us about accountability and honest feedback • Shifting from results-driven ambition to enjoying the process • Choosing an environment where you are challenged instead of comfortable • Inside the Olympic Trials: nerves, preparation, and a breakthrough race • Pursuing an Olympic dream and finding a new direction when it doesn’t happen • Modern pentathlon’s military roots and its changing events • Joining the Army’s World Class Athlete Program and learning new disciplines • Why progress isn’t always linear • How discipline and coachability transfer beyond sports • Stoicism, character, and staying balanced under pressure • Flow state, trusting your training, and letting go of the last mistake • Logan’s approach to exercise consistency and fueling demanding training • Setting meaningful goals while learning to enjoy the present • An honest conversation about mental health in elite athletics MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION • University of Florida swimming • Team USA and modern pentathlon • U.S. Army and the Best Ranger Competition • U.S. Olympic Swimming Trials in Omaha • Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte • Coach Rick Guenther, Rowdy Gaines, and Erik Vendt • U.S. Olympic Training Center and Army World Class Athlete Program • Ashton Eaton, Bo Jackson, Michael Jordan, and LeBron James • Mantis shooting-training system ABOUT MERGING WISDOM Merging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. No single field, tradition, or point of view has a monopoly on wisdom. Through curiosity and honest conversation, we explore what different experiences can teach us - and how to put that wisdom into practice. Follow or subscribe so you can join future conversations. Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy. Merging Wisdom https://mergingwisdom.com Logan Storie - Team USA: https://www.teamusa.com/profiles/logan-storie #MergingWisdom #LoganStorie #Mindset #Discipline #FlowState #TeamUSA #PersonalGrowth

  4. Oct 8

    Jesse Eubanks: Discovering Desire Through The Enneagram Part 2 - Ep. 8

    Jesse Eubanks returns to Merging Wisdom to explore desire through all nine Enneagram types. With Joel and Sarina, he looks at how good desires can become tangled with fear: protection becomes control, peace becomes comfort, and the longing to be valued becomes a need to perform. From perfectionism and people-pleasing to scarcity, self-doubt, and chasing the next experience, this conversation explores what helps us reconnect with our deeper desires and love and understand one another well. No prior Enneagram knowledge is needed. IN THIS EPISODE • Why motivation matters more than labeling someone’s behavior • Type 8: Protection, control, and rediscovering vulnerability • Type 9: Peace versus comfort—and waking up to your own wants • Type 1: Integrity, perfectionism, and making room for grace • Type 2: Being cherished versus being needed; receiving love in solitude • Type 3: Worth beyond achievement; naming shame with compassion • Type 4: Being seen, accepted, and celebrated without having to be different • Type 5: Competence versus collecting knowledge; moving from scarcity to generosity • Type 6: Security through support, learning to trust, and taking calculated risks • Type 7: The hunger for nurture, lasting joy, and being present to pain. MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION • Nadia Bolz-Weber’s interview on The Road Back to You • Mike Cosper and The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill • Genesis 1:1–3: Being present to chaos before trying to fix it • Captain America and Iron Man • How We Relate by Jesse Eubanks • Harry Potter and Sherlock Holmes • Tim Keller and Counterfeit Gods • Neil deGrasse Tyson • Full House, This Is Us, Parenthood, and Dan in Real Life ABOUT MERGING WISDOM Merging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. The goal is not simply to talk about wisdom, but to practice wisdom. Allowing what we discover to lead to meaningful action, real change, and lives shaped by greater truth, goodness, beauty, and connection. No single field, tradition, or point of view has a monopoly on wisdom. We follow the questions that matter across the boundaries that usually keep our conversations apart. We desire to always be moving towards wisdom. Where disciplines meet, wisdom emerges. Follow or subscribe so you can join future conversations. Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy. Merging Wisdom: (https://mergingwisdom.com) Jesse’s Enneagram resources: (https://relatebetter.com) The EnneaCast: (https://relatebetter.com/enneacast/) Wonderology: (https://wonderologyshow.com/) #MergingWisdom #JesseEubanks #Enneagram #Desire #Relationships #Faith #PersonalGrowth #Wisdom

  5. Sep 24

    Jesse Eubanks: Discovering Desire Through The Enneagram Part 1 - Ep. 7

    What do you really want and what’s underneath that longing? Author and podcast host Jesse Eubanks joins Joel and Sarina for a conversation about desire, the Enneagram, faith, and the search for a meaningful life. Jesse explores how our deepest desires shape our personalities, relationships, and dreams. Together, we consider what happens when one desire takes over, why we sometimes silence our longings, and how grieving an old dream can make room for something new. The conversation gets personal as Jesse reflects on authenticity and marriage, Joel explores the pursuit of happiness, and Sarina shares her struggle to separate intrinsic worth from other people’s approval. Along the way, we explore curiosity, beauty, gratitude, and the relationships that connect us to God, ourselves, and one another. IN THIS EPISODE Desire as a driving force behind our thoughts, feelings, and actionsWhy desire follows what we perceive as beautifulWhat daydreams, anger, and recurring longings can revealThe difference between honoring a desire and letting it take overHow the Enneagram helps us recognize our underlying motivationsGrieving unrealized dreams and discovering new expressions of purposeWhen “being authentic” comes at the expense of connectionFinding worth beyond success, image, and validationHow gratitude changes our relationship with what we wantApproaching our desires with curiosity instead of shame MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION How We Relate by Jesse Eubanks The EnneaCast RelateBetter Wonderology The James Webb Space TelescopeThe Soul of Desire by Curt ThompsonIra Glass of This American Life RadiolabThe Office ABOUT MERGING WISDOM Merging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world.The goal is not simply to talk about wisdom, but to practice wisdom. Allowing what we discover to lead to meaningful action, real change, and lives shaped by greater truth, goodness, beauty, and connection.No single field, tradition, or point of view has a monopoly on wisdom. We follow the questions that matter across the boundaries that usually keep our conversations apart. We desire to always be moving towards wisdom. Where disciplines meet, wisdom emerges.Follow or subscribe so you can join future conversations. Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy. Merging Wisdom: https://mergingwisdom.com #MergingWisdom #JesseEubanks #Enneagram #Desire #Relationships #Faith #PersonalGrowth #Wisdom

  6. Sep 17

    Power And Accountability: Reflections On The Mica Miller Story - Ep. 6

    How does a community that's supposed to be built around faith, love, and trust become a place where warning signs are overlooked which results in tragedy? In this episode of Merging Wisdom, Joel Hubbard, Sarina Heroy, and Dan Heroy reflect on Mica Miller’s story and Netflix’s Death of the Pastor’s Wife to explore deeper questions about spiritual authority, accountability, and the misuse of power. Drawing on their own experiences in church and ministry, the hosts examine why charisma can be mistaken for character, how blind loyalty develops, and what happens when questioning a leader feels like questioning God. The conversation also turns inward: How do we recognize our vulnerabilities without blaming ourselves for someone else’s actions? How do we reclaim our agency, make room for anger and grief, and remain open to faith and connection after trust has been broken? IN THIS EPISODE The Mica Miller documentary and the questions it raises about church culture Why spiritual authority creates a different kind of power dynamic When gifting, confidence, and charisma overshadow character Women’s unique experiences of submission, authority, and pressure to avoid questioning leaders How trust and good intentions can be exploited Why healthy leadership requires more than talent or the absence of scandal The fruit of the Spirit as a measure of maturity and relational health The difference between loyalty and surrendering your own judgment Learning from painful experiences without shame or self-blame Making room for anger and grief alongside forgiveness Why forgiveness does not erase accountability or consequences Rebuilding trust without making another person the center of your identity Staying connected while taking responsibility of your own agency MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION Netflix’s Death of the Pastor’s Wife Mica Miller and John-Paul “JP” Miller Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and early Mormon history G. K. Chesterton and the invitation to examine ourselves Norm Macdonald’s Saturday Night Live Clara Turley Bible Challenge game-show sketch Shawn Bolz and "hot reading" words of knowledge King Saul and King David from the Bible DISCLAIMER This episode offers commentary and personal reflection on a documentary, public reporting, and the hosts’ experiences. Allegations should not be treated as established facts merely because they are discussed here. Anyone accused of a crime is presumed innocent unless proven guilty in court. We are not determining anyone’s guilt or legal liability, or prejudging any investigation or legal proceeding. Information reflects what was available at recording on September 11, 2026, and may change. Our aim is to encourage reflection on faith, power, and accountability, not harassment or speculation. ABOUT MERGING WISDOM Merging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. Conversations that seek wisdom wherever it’s found. Follow, subscribe, and share the podcast to help others join the conversation. Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy. https://mergingwisdom.com #MergingWisdom #MicaMiller #DeathOfThePastorsWife #SpiritualAbuse #ChurchLeadership #Faith #Accountability

  7. Sep 10

    Dr. Bryan Litfin On Enchantment, Embodied Christianity, And The Influence Of The Early Church - Ep. 5

    What can the early church teach modern Christians about leaders, worship, enchantment, and the mysteries of God? In this episode of Merging Wisdom, Dan Heroy, Joel Hubbard, and Sarina Heroy are joined by professor, church historian, and author Dr. Bryan Litfin, for a wide-ranging conversation about ancient Christianity and why the church may need to look backward in order to move forward. IN THIS EPISODE Bryan Litfin’s journey into studying ancient Christianity and the church fathersThe inspiration behind the Ancient Evil, Living Hope series with Kathie Lee GiffordWhat early traditions may tell us about Mary and PaulWhy God so often chooses the weak, humble, and overlookedMary as the vessel of the incarnation and the new Holy of HoliesThe tearing of the temple veil as both access to God and the movement of God into the worldWhat Christianity has lost through the disenchantment of the modern Western worldSarina’s experience navigating charismatic Christianity and excessive spiritualizationHow liturgy, creeds, and communal worship can make spiritual reality accessible to everyoneWhy Christianity may need an ancient-future expression of faithWhy incarnational theology is not the same as pantheismWhether particular places or physical objects can carry spiritual significanceThe Eucharist, Bread, wine, water, baptism, and the mystery of embodied faithThe contrast between pagan gods who demand sacrifice and the Christian God who gives himselfWhy bodily resurrection is essential to the Christian understanding of eternal lifeThe incarnation, physical creation, and the importance of embodimentWhy Christians are so often attracted to charismatic and larger-than-life leadersKing Saul, the Apostle Paul, and two radically different expressions of leadershipWhy celebrity-pastor culture can become spiritually dangerousWhat the early church fathers might recognize, and reject, in today’s churchesWhether the early church would recognize one pastor leading a congregationThe historical distinction between clergy and laityPaul’s authorship of the New Testament epistlesWhether Paul created new commandments for the early churchWhat Bryan means when he calls Christians to become “little-c catholic” MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION Dr. Bryan Litfin: https://bryanlitfin.comNero and Paul by Kathie Lee Gifford and Bryan LitfinHerod & Mary by Kathie Lee Gifford and Bryan LitfinThe Story of the Trinity by Bryan LitfinAfter Acts: Exploring the Lives and Legends of the Apostles by Bryan LitfinWisdom from the Ancients by Bryan LitfinBryan’s historical fiction about ConstantineBryan’s forthcoming book Church History for YouKathie Lee GiffordEmperor NeroThe Apostle PaulHerod the GreatMary, the mother of JesusSuetonius, Tacitus, and JosephusThe Acts of PaulDominion by Tom HollandThe Azusa Street RevivalMichael Heiser and the biblical theme of cosmic conflictThe Shroud of TurinC.S. Lewis and The Chronicles of NarniaJohn Piper and celebrity-pastor cultureThe Blurry Creatures podcastJohn G. Turner and the Merging Wisdom conversation about Joseph Smith ABOUT MERGING WISDOM Merging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. Follow or subscribe so you can join future conversations. Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy. https://mergingwisdom.com #MergingWisdom #BryanLitfin #NeroAndPaul #KathieLeeGifford #ChurchHistory #EarlyChurch #Faith #Christianity

  8. Sep 3

    Can We Disagree And Stay Connected? Navigating Different Beliefs - Ep. 4

    Can we remain connected without hiding our convictions, and can disagreement actually become an opportunity for growth?In this episode of Merging Wisdom, Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy turn the conversation inward, openly discussing the tensions that have been encountered while shaping the podcast and deciding which ideas, guests, and perspectives to explore. They consider why disagreement can feel threatening, how the fear of rejection affects our conversations, and why people often respond to conflict by becoming defensive, trying to fix the disagreement, or hiding what they actually believe. Each host reflects on their own instincts - from appeasing and playing small to resolving tension intellectually or using humor to find connection. The conversation explores how to build bridges without abandoning conviction, why “platforming” someone does not necessarily mean endorsing everything they believe, and how genuine dialogue can transform us when we resist the urge to retreat into echo chambers. IN THIS EPISODE Why disagreement can feel like a threat to belongingThe pattern of connection, disconnection, and repairWhy people matter more than positionsBuilding bridges without abandoning your beliefsThe difference between true harmony and conflict avoidanceHow fear and self-protection shape difficult conversationsWhy some people try to fix disagreement while others appease or withdrawMaking room for your own voice without losing connectionLearning to hold tension without immediately resolving itHow dialogue can create something greater than either person brought into itWhy “platforming” someone does not equal endorsing everything they believeThe difference between finding common ground and forcing consensusEscaping echo chambers, confirmation bias, and ideological campsWhy no single tradition, discipline, or point of view has a monopoly on wisdomMaintaining relationships when religious, political, and cultural beliefs changeListening as a discipline rather than simply waiting to respondWhy accurately understanding another person’s position mattersFinding wisdom in people with whom we disagreeStaying curious without treating every idea as equally true or usefulThe accidental origin of the name Merging WisdomDan’s interest in Mormon and Latter-day Saint history not as an argumentWhy subtle and unexpected moments can produce profound insightSoftness, receptivity, and experiencing the divine through human exchangeThe importance of humor, authenticity, and not taking ourselves too seriously MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION Merging Wisdom’s commitment to exploring different perspectivesEcho chambers and confirmation biasPlato's the good, the true, and the beautifulScott Adams and the “So what you’re saying is…” techniqueStraw-man arguments and accurately representing opposing viewpointsSocial media and the difficulty of online disagreementDan’s long-term friendships across changing religious and political beliefsJohn G. Turner and the Merging Wisdom conversation about Joseph SmithThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and MormonismProtestant and Catholic Christian traditionsThe accidental change from Emerging Wisdom to Merging Wisdom ABOUT MERGING WISDOM Merging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. No single field, tradition, or point of view has a monopoly on wisdom. We follow the questions that matter across the boundaries that usually keep our conversations apart. We desire to always be moving towards wisdom. Where disciplines meet, wisdom emerges. Follow or subscribe so you can join future conversations. Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy. https://mergingwisdom.com #MergingWisdom #Disagreement #Relationships #Communication #DifficultConversations #Wisdom #Faith #Culture #EchoChambers

  9. Aug 25

    John Crowder Talks Deconstructing Toxic Theology And Rediscovering A Christlike God - Ep. 3

    In this episode of Merging Wisdom, Dan Heroy and Joel Hubbard are joined by Christian author, speaker, and theologian John Crowder. Crowder is known for combining humor, provocative commentary, theology that reaches across denominationalism, and a deep interest in Patristic Christian traditions. They discuss Crowder's new book, The Silence of the Word, and John explains why Christology, contemplation, mystery, and embodied spiritual experience all belong together. IN THIS EPISODE John Crowder’s journey from a strict holiness background toward a more Christlike vision of God Humor, self-awareness, ego, and narcissism in Christian ministryWhy our interpretations of Scripture are influenced by personality, experience, and biasEvaluating theology through goodness, truth, beauty, and the revelation of JesusJesus as God’s self-revelation and the ultimate lens for understanding ScriptureChristological readings of violent passages in the Old TestamentHow early Christians used allegory without dismissing the authority of ScriptureThe difference between propositional knowledge and participatory knowledge of GodWhy theology, mysticism, intellect, emotion, and embodied experience belong togetherWhy mystery does not have to mean uncertainty about the goodness of God Crowder’s upcoming book, The Silence of the Word Christology, contemplation, incarnation, and humanity’s union with GodWhy evangelical Christianity often resists contemplation and historic Christian mysticism Disordered desires and humanity’s underlying search for the goodThe difference between the gospel as a contract and the gospel as covenant, family, healing, and relationshipHow transactional Christianity turns spiritual disciplines into another form of performance Crowder’s chapter “Deconstructing into Christ”Apophatic theology and the limits of human language about God Why deconstruction alone cannot create virtueThe danger of replacing one distorted image of God with a more fashionable oneSilence as fullness rather than emptiness or escape Contemplation as an experience of grace rather than a method for earning union with GodInternal Family Systems and the integration of uncomfortable or fragmented parts of ourselvesWhat Crowder would say to Christians who are deconstructing but do not want to abandon Jesus MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION Church Announcement Secrets Revealed - The Jesus Trip John Crowder and The New Mystics - https://www.johncrowder.netThe Silence of the Word: Contemplation and the Mystery of Incarnation by John CrowderThe Church of God Holiness traditionThe EnneagramPlato’s triad: the good, the true, and the beautifulGeorge MacDonald on the goodness of GodThe Gospel of JohnOrigen, Marcion, and Christological readings of ScriptureSola Scriptura and Solus ChristusThe Master and His Emissary by Iain McGilchristPenal substitutionary atonementDavid Bentley HartMaximus the Confessor on human desire and the goodApophatic theology and Pseudo-Dionysius the AreopagiteBernard of Clairvaux’s four stages of loveThe Purpose Driven Life by Rick WarrenThe Prayer of Jabez by Bruce WilkinsonDeep Thoughts by Jack HandeyJoseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet by John G. Turner ABOUT MERGING WISDOM Merging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. Where disciplines meet, wisdom emerges. Follow or subscribe so you can join future conversations. Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy. https://mergingwisdom.com #MergingWisdom #JohnCrowder #Theology #Christology #Contemplation #Deconstruction #Christianity #Faith #Grace

  10. Aug 18

    John G. Turner On Joseph Smith And Parallels With Charismatic Leaders - Ep. 2

    Was Joseph Smith a prophet, a fraud, or something more complicated? In this episode of Merging Wisdom, Dan Heroy and Joel Hubbard are joined by historian John G. Turner, professor of religious studies and history at George Mason University and author of Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet. Joseph Smith remains one of the most fascinating and polarizing figures in American religious history. Intelligent, thoughtful people can examine the same evidence and reach dramatically different conclusions about his life, motives, spiritual experiences, and prophetic claims. IN THIS EPISODE Why and how both Dan Heroy and John G. Turner became fascinated with Mormon historyJoseph Smith’s life as an iconic American storyWhy thoughtful people reach opposite conclusions about Joseph SmithHow Smith gave his followers purpose, identity, and communityJoseph Smith’s appeal to people seeking visions, prophecy, healing, and spiritual giftsWhether Smith was calculating, opportunistic, sincere, or all threeThe “pious fraud” interpretation of Joseph SmithThe historical questions surrounding the gold platesWhy sincerity and deception can be difficult to separateJoseph Smith as liar, leader, or lunaticHow historians evaluate visions and other spiritual experiencesJoseph Smith's "First Vision" and the limits of historical evidenceParallels between early Mormonism and charismatic ChristianityJoseph Smith, Hiram Page, and competing revelationsThe dangers of celebrity pastors and unchecked religious authorityJoseph Smith’s desire to redeem his family’s storyPlural marriage, self-interest, and Smith’s religious motivationsJoseph Smith’s plural marriagesThe difference between building a healthy community and endlessly pursuing growthJesus as a contrasting model of leadership and powerWhy Joseph Smith’s willingness to ask enormous theological questions still matters MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION John G. Turner: https://johngturner.comJoseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet by John G. TurnerBrigham Young: Pioneer Prophet by John G. TurnerJohn Turner’s 41-part Joseph Smith Podcast series with John Dehlin on Mormon StoriesDan Heroy's Mormon and Latter-day Saint history projectDan Vogel and the “pious fraud” interpretation of Joseph SmithScott Adams and the "two movies one screen" analogy Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Lyman BushmanC.S. Lewis’s “liar, lunatic, or Lord” argumentHiram Page and his seer stoneThe Azusa Street Revival and the rise of PentecostalismThe charismatic Catholic renewalThe Vineyard movementDavid Koresh and the Branch DavidiansJim JonesRobert H. Schuller, the Crystal Cathedral, and the Hour of Power ABOUT MERGING WISDOM Merging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. The goal is not simply to talk about wisdom, but to practice wisdom. Allowing what we discover to lead to meaningful action, real change, and lives shaped by greater truth, goodness, beauty, and connection. No single field, tradition, or point of view has a monopoly on wisdom. We follow the questions that matter across the boundaries that usually keep our conversations apart. We desire to always be moving towards wisdom. Where disciplines meet, wisdom emerges. Follow or subscribe so you can join future conversations. Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy. https://mergingwisdom.com #MergingWisdom #JosephSmith #MormonHistory #JohnGTurner #LDS #Faith #Culture #History #Religion #MormonStories

  11. Aug 10

    Finding Wisdom Through The Good, True, And Beautiful - Ep. 1

    What does it mean to become wise, not merely informed? In this introductory episode of Merging Wisdom, Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy explore the vision behind the podcast and begin putting it into practice themselves. Using Plato’s framework of “the good, the true, and the beautiful” as a starting point, they consider wisdom not as something possessed by gurus, but as something that emerges through curiosity, honest conversation, self-awareness, relationship, and a willingness to be changed. How can we discuss faith, politics, culture, and other sometimes divisive subjects without turning conversation into combat? Can we remain open to different perspectives without abandoning conviction? What is the difference between collecting knowledge and actually living wisely? The conversation explores the importance of pruning beliefs and behaviors that no longer produce good fruit, recognizing our own biases, resisting simplistic labels, listening before responding, and allowing ourselves to be genuinely affected by another person’s perspective. This episode introduces the kind of conversations Merging Wisdom hopes to create: thoughtful but accessible, serious without losing humor, open to disagreement, and grounded in a desire to live with greater truth, goodness, beauty, in relationship with others. IN THIS EPISODE Why Merging Wisdom was createdWisdom found in "the good, the true, and the beautiful"Wisdom as a lived practice—not merely knowledgeWhy disagreement does not have to become hostilityCreating conversations that are not echo chambersCuriosity, humility, vulnerability, and self-awarenessThe difference between openness and indecisionHolding convictions while remaining willing to course-correctHow labels can divide people in religion, politics, and culturePruning beliefs, behaviors, and patterns that no longer serve usThe courage required to ask difficult questionsMaking room for your own voice without silencing othersWhy wisdom cannot be pursued alone MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION Plato’s triad: the good, the true, and the beautifulBiblical wisdom, Proverbs, and the fruit of the SpiritThe EnneagramDan’s Mormon and Latter-day Saint history projectMichael Jordan and the humility required to be mentoredPoet David WhyteUpcoming guests John G. Turner and John Crowder ABOUT MERGING WISDOM Merging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. The goal is not simply to talk about wisdom, but to practice wisdom. Allowing what we discover to lead to meaningful action, real change, and lives shaped by greater truth, goodness, beauty, and connection. No single field, tradition, or point of view has a monopoly on wisdom. We follow the questions that matter across the boundaries that usually keep our conversations apart. We desire to always be moving towards wisdom. Where disciplines meet, wisdom emerges. Follow or subscribe so you can join future conversations. Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy. https://mergingwisdom.com #MergingWisdom #Wisdom #Faith #Culture #History #Politics

  • 11 Episodes

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
8 Ratings

About

Merging Wisdom explores faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. Through honest conversations with thoughtful guests and one another the hosts - Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy - aim to seek wisdom wherever it can be found. The goal is not simply to talk about wisdom, but to put it into practice, allowing what we discover to lead to meaningful action, real change, and lives. Merging Wisdom follows the questions that matter across the boundaries that usually keep our conversations apart. Where disciplines meet, wisdom emerges.

Information

  • Creator
    Merging Wisdom
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    11
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Merging Wisdom
  • Show Website
    Merging Wisdom

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