Output to Outcome Podcast

Mik Kersten

Follow the journey behind the Output to Outcome book and help define a new operating model for the age of AI. mikkersten.substack.com

Episodes

  1. Sep 3

    From Product to AI-First: A Conversation with Pieter Jordaan on Scaling Outcomes

    Pieter Jordaan (Group CIO, TUI Group) and I first started working together during TUI’s shift from project to product. Since then, TUI has moved through a full cloud modernization, product and flow and has applied those foundations to becoming an AI-first organization. I am grateful to Pieter and TUI for providing the case study in the Functions to Flow chapter of Output to Outcome, and for joining me on this episode to tell us the story behind the case study. I particularly like how Pieter describes his approach of increasing the flow of the organization until it begins to match the pace AI makes possible. The AI-first framework that Pieter architected for TUI starts with literacy, then reimagines the work, redesigns processes and roles, and maps human ownership to the outcomes that remain. We also get into one of the harder parts of the transition: getting leaders to stop thinking in activities and start thinking in outcomes. Pieter recently put TUI’s executives through an agentic AI bootcamp designed to give them a firsthand perspective on the seismic shift underway. The story is fascinating and worth a listen for anyone who wants to help their leadership team experience just how significant the strategic and operational shift really is, and why they need to support it. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mikkersten.substack.com

  2. Aug 27

    Scaling Outcomes with AI-Native SAFe: A Conversation with Andrew Sales

    Andrew Sales, Chief Methodologist at Scaled Agile, joined me to unpack one of the biggest evolutions in SAFe yet: its reinvention around AI-native ways of working. At the center of that reinvention is outcome-driven product development. Andrew described how outcomes are the keystone of the new model: connecting portfolio outcomes to ART, PI, and team outcomes, and providing the mechanism for deciding what to stop, pivot, or continue as AI dramatically increases the amount of work organizations can produce. We then explored some significant implications. AI-native teams are getting smaller, while traditional fixed roles give way to broader builder, product, and domain-expert capabilities. Planning and coordination are accelerating, with AI-Native SAFe reimagining how teams can leverage a new kind of align, sense, and respond cycle. The common thread across all of this aligns with the core thesis of Output to Outcome: once AI removes the constraint on producing work, the operating model and organizational processes need to be rebuilt around managing outcomes. Check out the recording to learn how Andrew and the Scaled Agile team are helping organizations make that transition. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mikkersten.substack.com

    Scaling Outcomes with AI-Native SAFe: A Conversation with Andrew Sales

  3. Jul 16

    Output to Outcome: Book Launch with Gene Kim

    Thank you to everyone who tuned into the live video! Join me for my next live video in the app. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mikkersten.substack.com

    Output to Outcome: Book Launch with Gene Kim
  • 3 Episodes

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Follow the journey behind the Output to Outcome book and help define a new operating model for the age of AI. mikkersten.substack.com

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