Capital + Counsel

Kim Wiegand
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Capital + Counsel is where capital, governance and technology meet the business of law. Hosted by Kim Wiegand, Founder of Julip Advisory, Capital + Counsel brings together podcast conversations exploring how Australian law firms are navigating disruption, from AI adoption and funding models to governance under pressure and the rise of AI-native firms. Season 1, The Cost of Change, features conversations with managing partners, PE and private capital investors, legal strategists, and sector operators shaping where the industry goes next.

Episodes

  1. 3d ago

    EP3: The End of the Billable Hour | Ben Deverson, Law Organised

    80% of legal work is still billed by the hour, and Ben Deverson thinks that ends within three years. How to grow a law firm when the pricing model underneath it changes. Ben isn't a lawyer, and he says that's the point. He spent 30-plus years across professional services, including a stint as managing director and equity principal of a boutique law firm in Brisbane, and now runs Law Organised, a consultancy that only supports the legal profession. He sits across the table from firm owners every week. His view on what separates the good firms from the rest: the best ones are boring. Systemised, documented, with every matter flowing through the firm the same way. Like a marching band, in his words. We also get into the shape of the Australian market. Around 80% of firms are owned by a solo principal. The top 50 employ 21% of all private practice solicitors but make up 1% of the market. A quarter of women in partnership hold actual equity. And a large cohort of owners over 65 will exit the profession in the next five to ten years with nobody obvious to sell to. What we cover: ● Why the best law firms are boring, and the marching band analogy ● The difference between owning a firm and buying yourself a salary ● The real shape of the market: 80% solo principals, 1% big law ● Partner in name only, and the 31% equity gap ● The rise of the female-led microfirm ● Succession, and the owners over 65 heading for the door ● Why 80% of services are still hourly, and why he says that becomes a minority within three years Guest: Ben Deverson, Law Organised LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bendeverson/ Connect with Kim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimwiegand/ Capital + Counsel is about capital, governance and technology reshaping the business of law. ------- 0:00 Intro 1:44 He's not a lawyer, and he says that's the point 1:59 Why the best law firms are boring 3:03 Legal operations matter more than technical skill 4:52 From boutique law firm CEO to Law Organised 5:40 Why the top 50 sucks up all the oxygen 6:35 The real shape of the market: 80% owned by a solo principal 7:52 The rise of the micro practice 8:55 How to grow a law firm deliberately 10:23 Growing in spite of yourself, and becoming the bottleneck 11:40 Why 95% of new firms set up as an ILP 14:26 Moving between structures, and how easy it actually is 15:06 A record number of women in partnership 15:52 Partner in name only: the 31% equity gap 17:42 Removing yourself from your own firm 18:11 Documenting every function, down to how mail is sorted 20:32 People buy people, not lawyers 26:14 Flexibility, and what it actually means 30:10 Remote staff for regional firms, and why it isn't offshore 35:01 The mammal problem in legal 35:27 Succession and the partnership model 38:39 What a law firm is actually worth 40:09 Advising firms through succession 44:07 Systems, processes and the marching band 49:55 Why 80% of legal work is still billed by the hour 50:18 The three year prediction 56:31 Why the mindset shift takes longer than three years 57:10 Law firm owners and outside investment 60:56 Backing smaller firms with capital and know-how 64:16 The rise of AI-native law firms

  2. Oct 1

    Inside a Law Firm That Took Private Equity and Tripled | David Kearney, Wotton Kearney

    How does an Australian law firm go from six lawyers to six hundred, stop being a partnership, take private equity, and triple in size? David Kearney, co-founder of Wotton Kearney, explains. David co-founded Wotton Kearney in 2002 with Phil Wotton: two partners and four other lawyers, focused on insurance law. Today the firm has 14 offices across four countries, around 100 partners, 600 lawyers and a team of more than a thousand. The structural change underneath that growth is the part most firms are still circling. Wotton Kearney is not a partnership. The people called partners internally are shareholders, and the firm took a minority private equity investment roughly four years ago. It has tripled in size since. In this conversation David covers what corporatising actually changed day to day, why he draws a hard line between traditional private equity on a three to five year flip and the patient capital they took, how partner remuneration and ownership work under a company structure, and what he says is the one thing he is proudest of across 24 years, which is that the message never changed. For managing partners weighing external capital, a merger, or a move away from the lockstep partnership model, this is a rare look inside a firm that has already done it. Connect with David on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/djkearney/ Connect with Kim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimwiegand/ Chapters 00:00 Intro 01:16 2002: two partners, four lawyers, one message 02:20 Building the culture early 04:17 Why they corporatised 05:37 Partners became shareholders 08:30 How remuneration works under a company structure 09:13 The decision to look at private equity 10:44 Tax and distribution in a partnership vs a company 12:08 The Slater and Gordon comparison, and why it's different 13:09 Ten or twelve conversations with PE firms 15:14 Other models emerging in the market 16:48 Bringing the partnership along: the Q&A with the PE firm 18:11 The structure, and why it wasn't just selling a percentage 20:18 Funding technology investment 21:49 Attracting laterals without a lockstep package 25:04 Explaining "business of value" to partners 26:38 Partners investing their own profits back in 28:11 Four years in: what has actually changed 30:33 Buying shares instead of a remuneration increase 31:29 The board, governance and finding a new chair 36:03 What corporatising means for clients 39:15 Technology, AI and the leverage model 41:17 46 graduates, their biggest intake 42:25 Pricing pressure in the insurance market 46:48 Where the mid tier goes from here 49:58 The redundant metrics traditional partnerships still use 51:05 Share price as a metric 54:24 Engaging senior lawyers on the path to partner 57:07 Taking a different structure to market 58:08 How partners work together on client growth Capital + Counsel is about capital, governance and technology reshaping the business of law.

  3. Sep 16

    What Banks Actually Look At When They Fund a Law Firm | Courtney Worrell

    Most firms hear "capital coming into legal" and think private equity. Courtney Worrall has spent nearly 20 years banking law firms, and she says that is one option on a much longer menu. Connect with Courtney on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/courtney-worrall-2b635a40/ Connect with Kim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimwiegand/ In this episode Courtney walks through what is actually available to firms funding transformation: traditional term debt for premises and infrastructure, partner capital contribution loans that most firms put in place 10 to 20 years ago and have never right sized, and working capital facilities. She explains why debt preserves partner autonomy and is usually a great deal cheaper than equity, and when private equity genuinely is the right call. We also get into lock up, which Courtney calls the number that should keep managing partners up at night. Every 10 days of lock up ties up around $30,000 of cash for every $1 million of revenue. For a $20 million firm that is roughly $600,000 sitting with clients instead of in the business. Her question: why are firms acting as an interest free lender to their own clients at the expense of their own profitability? The conversation covers the reluctance of younger lawyers to take up equity partnership, the financial literacy gap among incoming partners, what banks actually look at beyond top line growth, the squeeze on the mid-tier, and why choosing and paying for an AI platform is only 20 percent of the job. Chapters 00:00 Trailer 00:50 The cost of change 01:48 Meet Courtney Worrall 02:27 What firms are struggling with right now 05:17 The full funding menu, not just PE 09:03 Partner capital and the equity partnership problem 11:23 Lock up and what it really costs 14:40 The financial literacy gap 19:50 What banks look at beyond top line growth 24:02 What scale looks like now 25:41 Laterals, exits and the first $10M partner 28:29 The squeeze on the mid-tier 30:46 How AI is changing the funding conversation 38:15 When giving up equity is right, and when it isn't 47:07 The biggest cost of change Capital + Counsel is about capital, governance and technology reshaping the business of law. Season 1 is The Cost of Change.

  • 3 Episodes

About

Capital + Counsel is where capital, governance and technology meet the business of law. Hosted by Kim Wiegand, Founder of Julip Advisory, Capital + Counsel brings together podcast conversations exploring how Australian law firms are navigating disruption, from AI adoption and funding models to governance under pressure and the rise of AI-native firms. Season 1, The Cost of Change, features conversations with managing partners, PE and private capital investors, legal strategists, and sector operators shaping where the industry goes next.

Information

  • Creator
    Kim Wiegand
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    3
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Kim Wiegand
  • Show Website
    Capital + Counsel

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