White Box Rodeo

Robert Valentine, Kayvan Nikjou

0.0 (0)
Entrepreneurship

Whitebox means you crack it open and look at the actual code, the internals, how the thing really runs. That's the podcast. We do whitebox testing on entrepreneurs, startups and VCs. Get past the pitch deck and into the real workings, the messy parts, the stuff nobody puts on LinkedIn. And the rodeo? Because building a company is a wild ride.

2d ago

Bobby Healy, Founder & CEO of Manna | Not a Chance in Europe

Bobby Healy, founder and CEO of Manna, wants your coffee to land in your back garden a few minutes after you order it. In some places that future is already here. In Tulsa, Oklahoma, he says, a coffee from a small family business now lands in your backyard seven minutes after you order it. In the parts of Dublin where Manna flew, he says, drones were the default delivery option on Just Eat, Deliveroo and Uber Eats and 62% of the households it served used them. He talks with Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou about building drone delivery in Dublin and taking it to the United States. Delivery by road is slow and expensive, Bobby says. Only a small share of people order food that way. His drones don't get tips, don't get COVID and don't eat your fries. Manna flies its own drones for delivery platforms and shops, like a low-cost airline. Bobby, who started out writing games for Nintendo, explains why the aircraft are built like a Volkswagen Beetle, why the one remote pilot on the ground can't steer the drones, what happens when something goes wrong and why he says Manna makes money on every flight. He also explains why Manna now flies from Tulsa, Oklahoma and why he thinks Europe needs more appetite for risk. If he started again he would still start in Ireland, but he would leave after five years instead of eight. Recorded at HumanX, Amsterdam. This is the last of our HumanX conversations. Chapters0:00 Cold open1:13 Big drones from Dublin1:47 Why Manna now builds in the US2:26 Getting away from Chinese drones3:19 The biggest delivery market in the world3:50 Why drones beat delivery drivers5:02 Ryanair on steroids6:15 Next stops and why delivery could be free8:20 From Nintendo games to a seventh company9:38 Amazon and Google are betting on drones too11:10 Built like a Volkswagen Beetle13:36 Trump's order on drones14:57 Europe needs a push15:41 What if a drone falls?16:45 The New Jersey drone sightings18:03 Is there room for new drone companies?19:47 A physical moat21:22 A remote pilot who can't steer22:42 Who backs Manna23:15 Deep tech that turns into a low-cost airline25:09 Why he says every flight makes money26:18 From software exits to venture capital29:11 Why you can't do this in Europe32:52 Europe's outliers33:39 Germany's maze and the FAA35:08 Drones for defense? White Box Rodeo is for information and entertainment only and is not investment advice. The hosts may hold interests in companies they discuss. Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZJZN4Mo08oWhite Box Rodeo: https://whiteboxrodeo.comHosts: Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou
Oct 27

Christian Facey, Co-Founder & CEO of Audiomob | The Average Person Is Cooked

Christian Facey is the co-founder and CEO of Audiomob, which plays audio ads inside mobile games and apps. He talks with Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou about his road from a bottom-ten university in London to Google and Meta, and about building Audiomob through the pandemic. Christian and his co-founder Wilfrid Obeng raised their first $2 million on a dollar a month in revenue. When COVID hit, Audiomob made $5,000 in all of 2020. They spent the last of their money on one sales rep and grew to more than $1.2 million in revenue within six months. Investors then offered $35 million. Christian took $14 million and calls it one of his worst mistakes. The founders still own 51% of the company. His advice for founders comes from that period. Test everything until something works. Pitch like an American, as Adeo Ressi once told him, and think in billions. Stay stoic until the money is in the bank, and walk into every room as an equal. As an investor he looks at what a founder has overcome. He also explains his bet on quantum and why he thinks AI will leave the average person cooked within four years. For kids he has one tip: learn Python and let AI speed up how you learn. New schedule: from this week on, White Box Rodeo releases a new episode every Tuesday. Recorded at HumanX, Amsterdam. Chapters0:00 Cold open1:06 Building Facebook's ad targeting2:47 Audio ads that play from the car radio4:38 From a bottom-ten university to Google5:03 What Steve Jobs and Hideo Kojima taught him6:14 $2 million on a dollar a month of revenue7:24 COVID kills the revenue plan9:30 One sales rep and a right angle10:34 Why taking $14 million was a mistake11:39 Keeping 51% at a $100 million valuation13:39 Pitch like an American15:04 Where his drive comes from18:06 The struggleometer19:58 Becoming an angel investor21:14 Why he backs stoic founders22:33 Reading to solve problems23:38 What to build now25:06 Why he is looking at quantum28:31 The average person is cooked33:51 Regulation as a moat36:20 Is AI a bubble?38:07 What kids should learn41:01 A seven-year-old who wants a forest White Box Rodeo is for information and entertainment only and is not investment advice. The hosts may hold interests in companies they discuss. Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVD2oM5B85YWhite Box Rodeo: https://whiteboxrodeo.comHosts: Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou
Oct 23

Lars Rasmussen, Co-Creator of Google Maps | No VC Called Us Back

Lars Rasmussen co-created Google Maps with his brother Jens. He talks with Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou about the mapping startup no investor wanted, the question from Larry Page that changed the product and the three weeks in which the brothers rebuilt it for the browser. The Rasmussens pitched a full-screen map you could drag around and no VC called back. Investors said people only need a map a few times a month. After a deal with a VC fell through, the brothers met Larry Page with maxed-out credit cards and no other options. Google hired them before it had time to buy their company, days before its IPO. Lars explains why Google Wave failed where Maps worked. He also says he should only build things he is bad at. Today Lars is an angel investor in Athens. He was in Canva's first round and tells how its founders learned kite surfing to meet investors. A "Save Dave" sign later brought Canva its CTO. He also talks about Panathēnea, the startup festival he helps build in Athens. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Recorded at HumanX, Amsterdam. Chapters0:00 Cold open1:13 Meeting at HumanX1:57 Panathēnea, the ancient festival of Athens11:14 Why Athens and its startup scene18:23 Where 2 Technologies and Jens's idea23:38 No callbacks from any VC24:48 "That's because your maps suck"26:43 A spare bedroom in Sydney27:39 Yahoo kills the deal30:13 Start working for us on Monday31:38 One of Google's best investments32:49 Inside a VC's funnel36:13 Meeting Larry Page40:35 Three weeks to rebuild it in the browser42:47 How big Google Maps became48:42 Staying until Maps was number one50:09 Google Wave52:38 Only build what you are bad at54:30 A first-round investor in Canva57:36 Learn kite surfing to raise money60:39 Save Dave62:49 The 23-year-old CEO of Panathēnea Corrections12:02 During the 2015 capital controls the cash withdrawal limit in Greece was €60 per day.45:29 Google's own mapping project was called Ground Truth.48:48 Sebastian Thrun went on to lead the flying-car company Kitty Hawk. White Box Rodeo is for information and entertainment only and is not investment advice. The hosts may hold interests in companies they discuss. Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXlJBzcNjHUWhite Box Rodeo: https://whiteboxrodeo.comHosts: Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou
Oct 19

Nasrin Mostafazadeh, Co-Founder & CEO of Verneek | Silicon Valley Hates Retail

Nasrin Mostafazadeh, co-founder and CEO of Verneek, talks with Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou at HumanX in Amsterdam. She grew up in Tehran, went to a school for exceptionally talented students from the age of 11 and started working in AI at 14. She has worked on common sense reasoning for twenty years. She met her co-founder and husband Omid at a robotics competition in Bremen, when they were both still in high school. Verneek builds AI for retailers and consumer brands, trained on their own data. Nasrin explains why she says Silicon Valley hates retail, how she and Omid built a New York company without making fundraising the news, and why Verneek chose Luxembourg for its first European office. She talks about hiring now that candidates use AI in interviews, and why she doubts she would have become an AI scientist had she grown up in the US. She ends with what drives her. Few female founders get funded, and she wants to show that it can be done. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Recorded at HumanX, Amsterdam. Chapters0:00 Cold open0:31 Have you been in Amsterdam before?3:08 Why so many Iranians lead in tech4:14 Doing more with less in Iran6:29 Working in AI at 148:29 Maryam Mirzakhani and the Fields Medal11:30 Education, AI and cheating in interviews14:34 Her first and last company16:14 What Verneek does19:10 Why retail ends up with overstock21:46 From AI scientist to retail23:48 Silicon Valley hates retail25:47 The hype cycle and causal reasoning27:52 Deep domain expert AI32:05 A New York company36:39 Profitable and coming to Luxembourg40:42 Fundraising is not an achievement43:40 Meeting Omid at a robotics competition45:40 Women founders and what drives her Corrections39:52 Luxembourg's cross-border workers come from France, Belgium and Germany. The Netherlands does not border Luxembourg. The flags of Luxembourg and the Netherlands differ in the shade of blue, not the red.Verneek announced plans for its Luxembourg office in September 2026. The office had not opened yet at the time of recording.46:11 PitchBook puts the share of US venture capital raised by all-female founding teams at 2.1% in 2024 and 1.1% in 2025. White Box Rodeo is for information and entertainment only and is not investment advice. The hosts may hold interests in companies they discuss. Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjmuhSbXifUWhite Box Rodeo: https://whiteboxrodeo.comHosts: Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou
Oct 16

Parag Parekh, Chief Digital Officer of Ingka Group (IKEA) | We Were Very Late to Digital

Parag Parekh, Chief Digital Officer of Ingka Group, the largest IKEA franchisee, talks with Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou at HumanX in Amsterdam. An engineer from Mumbai, he wrote software at Honeywell, joined GE's IT leadership program and worked at Adidas before IKEA came calling. He says a small screw made the decision easy: IKEA mailed it to his home in Germany, two weeks after he asked for it in a store. During the first question someone brings in the bag he left in an Uber. Parag explains how IKEA is organised, from Inter IKEA as the franchisor to Ingka as its biggest franchisee, and why the restaurants matter. He admits IKEA was very late to digital: it was so successful in its stores that it missed how smartphones changed the way people shop. With AI it does not want to be late again. IKEA will not use customer data to manipulate people or AI to monitor its employees, and it wants to move its coworkers from being anxious to being curious. He compares the work cultures of GE, Adidas and Sweden, where everyone is in it together but it is not always clear who is accountable. He furnished his new apartment in India almost entirely with IKEA, and his mother-in-law's kitchen too. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Recorded at HumanX, Amsterdam. Chapters0:00 Cold open1:02 We just want to know you as a person1:23 What if IKEA stopped existing?4:15 Growing up without IKEA and the missing screw7:22 From engineer to GE and Adidas9:39 Why so many Indians lead global companies11:45 How IKEA is structured16:00 Småland and 80 years of retail firsts17:38 IKEA's restaurant business18:33 Democratic design20:30 Investing in lower prices22:20 Margins and the cost of delivery25:52 Smaller stores in city centres27:15 Very late to digital30:54 Who is IKEA's competitor?32:07 AI and interior design for everyone34:44 What IKEA will not do with AI36:07 From anxious to curious39:21 Ingka Centres and Ingka Investments41:36 GE, Adidas and Swedish culture44:24 IKEA in his own home White Box Rodeo is for information and entertainment only and is not investment advice. The hosts may hold interests in companies they discuss. Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1LZzgezimkWhite Box Rodeo: https://whiteboxrodeo.comHosts: Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou
Oct 12

Robin Wauters, Co-Founder of Tech.eu | Obsessed With Solving a Problem

Robin Wauters, co-founder of Tech.eu, talks with Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou at HumanX in Amsterdam. Robin wrote for TechCrunch and was European editor of The Next Web before he started Tech.eu in 2013 to cover the European tech scene. He sold the company to Webrazzi in 2021 and left in 2024. Today he helps manage Syndicate One, a Belgian seed fund that invests in Belgian founders wherever they are. Robin says most growth capital still comes from outside Europe and that Europe missed the boat on social networks, semiconductors and hardware. He is one of the people behind EU-INC, a campaign for one company standard that founders could use across the EU. If he were dictator of Belgium, he would first guarantee for fifty years that founders and investors only pay tax on their shares when they sell them. As an investor Robin looks for founders who are “so obsessed with solving that problem that that's all they think about.” Syndicate One invested early in Aikido, a cybersecurity company that has since become a unicorn. Robin wants his children to stay curious and thinks all children should learn basic business thinking from elementary school to university. He gives Robert and Kayvan advice for their new podcast: “So just keep at it. Like, don't stop.” New episodes every Monday and Friday. Recorded at HumanX, Amsterdam. Chapters0:00 Cold open0:49 Jürgen Ingels and SuperNova1:24 How Kayvan met Robin3:51 Welcome to HumanX and bike thieves5:28 Tech.eu and how tech media changed7:43 Ambitious founders, exits and the EIC12:28 Why the US has more capital14:40 Delaware, Spotify and taxing paper gains18:46 Estonia and smarter regulation21:44 EU Inc explained25:00 If Robin ruled Belgium27:05 Europe in the AI race28:57 Angel investing and Aikido32:20 From journalist to investor at Syndicate One36:01 A new generation building in Europe39:37 Cosmic Aerospace and electric flight40:45 What should kids learn?43:45 Education and the lonely founder47:01 Profits, exits and what investors bring49:59 Why does Belgium exist?54:14 White Box Rodeo and Robin's advice for the podcast Correction: at 14:09 Robert says none of ASML's machines go to Europe. ASML does deliver machines in Europe, for example to Intel's chip plant in Ireland. In 2025, €529 million of ASML's €32.7 billion in net sales came from customers in the Netherlands and the rest of EMEA (Europe, the Middle East and Africa). Correction: at 34:33 Kayvan calls Jack Clark, the Anthropic co-founder who started out as a tech journalist, Jason Clark. Correction: at 47:45 Robin says Amazon hasn't made a profit for more than a decade. Amazon made its first full-year profit in 2003 and has been profitable in most years since. In 2025 its net income was $77.7 billion. White Box Rodeo is for information and entertainment only and is not investment advice. The hosts may hold interests in companies they discuss. Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCmmlLMuCakWhite Box Rodeo: https://whiteboxrodeo.comHosts: Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou
Oct 5

Jürgen Ingels, Founding Partner of Smartfin | Being an Entrepreneur Is a Sh*t Life

“It's a sh*t life. Being an entrepreneur is a sh*t life,” says Jürgen Ingels. He co-founded the payments company Clear2Pay, which FIS bought in 2014, and afterwards people told him he had been lucky. He wanted to show he could do it again and set up the fund Smartfin, where he is founding partner and chairman. He also runs SuperNova, the technology festival in Antwerp that brought Barack Obama, Oprah Winfrey and Arnold Schwarzenegger to Belgium. His book Start, Grow, Sell collects fifty lessons for entrepreneurs. In the third episode of White Box Rodeo, Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou start in the studio with what stayed with them after meeting Jürgen: how calm and genuine he came across, trauma as a driver for founders and why a good company may need only a small team in the age of AI. Robert explains why some of his questions in the interview appear as cards on screen: his microphone did not work during the recording. After that comes the interview, in which Kayvan and Robert talk with Jürgen about SuperNova, his companies and what he has learned as a founder and investor. Jürgen explains how SuperNova got Obama to Belgium through contacts in the US and how Oprah read his book on her plane and later invited him to her podcast. He talks about working every Saturday morning, about work-life balance in the first ten years of a career and about what he calls mushroom companies: small teams that grow fast. He also covers whether Europe can compete with China and the US, his space collection and the new space and defence fund at Smartfin. He tells the story of his chocolate shops in Stockholm and why they closed. The episode ends with what he has learned about happiness. New episode every Friday. Recorded at Berghaus, Amsterdam (studio) and at Jürgen's office in Flanders (interview). Chapters0:00 Cold open0:31 Who is Jürgen Ingels?3:12 The missing cable and Robert's mic4:31 AI, small teams and SuperNova6:58 The interview: a week of SuperNova8:25 How SuperNova got Obama13:33 SuperNova's bar, investors and a prize in Cannes16:43 Human capital and mushroom companies21:58 Charlie Duke, Oprah and her podcast27:35 Interviewing Oprah and Obama on stage31:33 Saturday mornings and work-life balance36:41 Creativity, robots and Europe's heritage39:42 Can Europe compete with China and the US?44:56 Does university still matter?48:06 Musk, Jobs and what drives top founders51:19 Deliverect and how he spots winners56:16 Clear2Pay, "you got lucky" and Smartfin1:00:04 Being an entrepreneur is a sh*t life1:01:34 Why he stays in Belgium1:03:47 His father, Apollo and a space museum1:08:44 Space, defence and the road to Mars1:15:18 Chocolate in Stockholm and other companies1:24:24 Longevity, Celtic salt and Eat Move Sleep1:30:30 Living longer and what happiness is Correction: at 1:24 Kayvan says Clear2Pay was sold for 400 million euros. FIS paid approximately €375 million for all shares of Clear2Pay in 2014.Correction: at 15:35 Kayvan links the prize for the SuperNova opening film to the Cannes Film Festival. The opening film of SuperNova 2025 won a Silver Dolphin in the Event Promotion category at the Cannes Corporate Media & TV Awards, a separate festival for corporate films, in September 2025.Correction: at 22:12 Jürgen places Charlie Duke on Apollo 17. Duke walked on the moon as lunar module pilot of Apollo 16 in April 1972 and was the backup lunar module pilot for Apollo 17. White Box Rodeo is for information and entertainment only and is not investment advice. The hosts may hold interests in companies they discuss. Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaAUljLQewQWhite Box Rodeo: https://whiteboxrodeo.comHosts: Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou
Sep 25

Mo Gawdat, Former Chief Business Officer of Google X | Challenging Mo Gawdat

The episode of history where humanity was the apex intelligence is about to end. That is how Mo Gawdat, former Chief Business Officer of Google X and author of Scary Smart, sees it. Kayvan interviewed him on stage at the Love Tomorrow Summit in front of thousands of people, with one plan: challenge him instead of agreeing with him. In the second episode of White Box Rodeo, Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou talk about how that interview came about, from journalism school and Forbes to two hours backstage with Mo. Then the full conversation from the Love Tomorrow stage: AI as the ultimate equalizer, America and China in the AI race, where Europe stands, what our children should still learn, and questions from the audience. Back in the studio we go through what Mo told Kayvan off camera, AI and warfare, DeepSeek and intellectual property, and his ten-year timeframe. Interview footage: Love Tomorrow Summit 2026, used with permission of Love Tomorrow. New episode every Friday. Recorded at Berghaus, Amsterdam. Chapters0:00 Cold open0:27 Kayvan's interview with Mo Gawdat2:55 Tomorrowland and the Love Tomorrow Summit6:27 From journalism school to Forbes14:03 Invited to challenge Mo Gawdat15:02 Two hours backstage with Mo17:22 Friend or opponent on stage19:58 The Love Tomorrow interview21:44 The viking chant24:48 Who is Mo Gawdat?33:08 The end of humans as the apex intelligence34:14 America, China and the AI race38:33 Where is Europe?39:12 AI as the ultimate equalizer42:14 What should our children study?45:41 Memorising, boredom and a disagreement50:31 Questions from the audience1:02:26 Two questions at the end of a life1:03:10 Back in the studio1:09:35 What Mo said off camera1:13:26 AI, warfare, China and Europe1:16:11 America's role1:17:18 DeepSeek and intellectual property1:18:48 Ten years1:19:50 Next: Jürgen Ingels Correction: at 1:11:10 Robert mentions a US Air Force simulation in which an AI drone turned against its operator. The US Air Force has said no such simulation took place, and the colonel who described it later called it a hypothetical thought experiment. White Box Rodeo is for information and entertainment only and is not investment advice. The hosts may hold interests in companies they discuss. Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PEh9t2kSu0White Box Rodeo: https://whiteboxrodeo.comHosts: Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou
Sep 18

Attention Beats Capital

Attention beats capital. In Europe the money is there but the attention is not, and the founders who work that out get ahead of the ones still waiting for a grant. In the first episode of White Box Rodeo, Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou crack open European entrepreneurship. Why a €50,000 grant takes six months and a consultant. Why Dutch founders stay off camera while American CEOs turn into cult leaders. Why Stockholm punches above its weight and what Scott Galloway's line about making money in America and spending it in Europe is worth once you actually build here. Then the money. Revenue per employee from OnlyFans to OpenAI, how Nvidia turned its staff into millionaires, founders with immigrant roots from Brin to Musk and why the people who get rich think in ten-year cycles. A friend of Kayvan's lived on ramen for two years to get there. And late in the episode, Miro. Valued at $17.5 billion in 2022, sold to Bending Spoons on 10 September at an enterprise value of $1.36 billion. Kayvan got the news from the founders the day before we recorded, so we work through who actually gets paid. New episode every Friday. Recorded at Berghaus, Amsterdam. Chapters0:00 Cold open0:32 Why we're starting White Box Rodeo6:24 The €50,000 grant that takes six months7:46 Make money in America, spend it in Europe (Scott Galloway)8:45 Tier-one cities, from London to Stockholm11:28 Why Dutch founders stay camera-shy15:24 Attention beats capital23:29 Finland vs Sweden: the distribution gap26:06 Revenue per employee, from OnlyFans to OpenAI27:20 How Nvidia made its staff millionaires30:55 Cult CEOs and the ASML boss nobody knows37:56 Founders with immigrant roots, from Brin to Musk41:46 Miro: 15 years, $17.5B, sold to Bending Spoons46:02 The SaaS apocalypse theory52:24 Who gets paid: founders, staff and VCs1:00:06 Think in ten-year cycles SourcesBending Spoons agrees to acquire Miro (10 Sep 2026): https://investors.bendingspoons.com/newsroom/bending-spoons-agrees-to-acquire-miroMiro valued at $17.5B after $400M Series C (TechCrunch, 5 Jan 2022): https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/05/visual-collaboration-company-miro-valued-at-17-5b-following-400m-in-new-funding/ White Box Rodeo is for information and entertainment only and is not investment advice. The hosts may hold interests in companies they discuss. Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c0-cDMooOsWhite Box Rodeo: https://whiteboxrodeo.comHosts: Robert Valentine and Kayvan Nikjou

9 Episodes

Whitebox means you crack it open and look at the actual code, the internals, how the thing really runs. That's the podcast. We do whitebox testing on entrepreneurs, startups and VCs. Get past the pitch deck and into the real workings, the messy parts, the stuff nobody puts on LinkedIn. And the rodeo? Because building a company is a wild ride.

Creator

Robert Valentine, Kayvan Nikjou
Years Active

2026
Episodes

9
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Explicit
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© 2026 Robert Valentine, Kayvan Nikjou
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