Draft Zero: a screenwriting podcast

Chas Fisher and Stuart Willis
  • 4.8 (114)
  • TV & Film
  • Updated Monthly

Two emerging screenwriters – Chas Fisher and Stuart Willis – try to work out what makes great screenplays work. Discovering what it takes by analysing what successful writers put on the page.

  1. DZ-127: Secrets and Clues 2 - The Cost of Revelation

    May 27

    DZ-127: Secrets and Clues 2 - The Cost of Revelation

    Listen to learn the emotional impact of revealing secrets vs discovering them. In this episode Stu, Chas and Mel apply the Landmark–Hidden–Secret framework (from DZ-126) across two very different genres: the thriller SIDE EFFECTS (2013) and the tragicomic pilot of SHRINKING. SIDE EFFECTS is a film of two genres. The first half plays as a drama about depression and over-medication; the second half is a 90s thriller. We talk about how every time Dr Jonathan Banks uncovers a new piece of information, it puts him in danger — and that danger motivates him to uncover more. In SHRINKING, we see a different use of the framework. "What are psychologists but detectives of the mind?" Rather than the cost of finding secrets, it's about the cost of sharing them. Chas also comes out of this with a paradigm he's been building toward (but we're keeping what that is secret until you listen!) And inevitably we go on some tangents: whether SIDE EFFECTS should even have been an erotic thriller! As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon. Join the discussion on Reddit. Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "Every time Dr Jonathan Banks uncovers a new piece of information, it puts him in danger -- and that danger motivates him to uncover more." — Chas Fisher @ 00:26:04 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Cold Open 00:00:16 – Intro: Secrets and Clues 2 - the Cost of Revelation 00:01:03 – Previously on Secrets and Clues (Recap of Part 1) 00:04:24 – Flashforward Insights 00:09:29 – SIDE EFFECTS 00:20:18 – › The First Half: Push and Misdirection 00:28:41 – › Genre Shift: Banks Becomes the Detective 00:48:06 – SHRINKING 01:00:02 – › The Inverted Paradigm: When Everyone Knows 01:07:47 – › The Cost of Sharing 01:22:02 – › Power Through Honest Acknowledgement 01:35:37 – The Key Tool Chas Learned 01:39:28 – Key Learnings & Wrap Up 01:50:48 – Many Thanks to our Patrons! FILMS SIDE EFFECTS (2013) — (w) Scott Z Burns (d) Steven Soderbergh SHOWS SHRINKING 1x1 "Coin Flip" — James Ponsoldt (d), Brett Goldstein, Jason Segel, Bill Lawrence (w) SCRIPTS Study the script: SIDE EFFECTS (2013) — Scott Z Burns LINKS Website: DIY & dragons: Landmark, Hidden, Secret Website: The Alexandrian » Advanced Node-Based Design Website: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests Website: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests EPISODES IN THE SECRETS AND CLUES SERIES DZ-126: Secrets and Clues DZ-127: Secrets and Clues 2 - The Cost of Revelation RELATED EPISODES DZ-90: Setups & Payoffs in EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE ——— More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser. We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter. Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-127/ Download episode: DZ-127.mp3

    1h 52m
  2. DZ-126: Secrets and Clues

    May 5

    DZ-126: Secrets and Clues

    Listen if you want to understand how hidden information drives character motivation and plot structure! “Getting information puts your character in danger. And danger rewards your character with information." — One of three ideas we steal from game design in this episode. In this two part series, we talk about how secrets, clues and hidden information motivate characters and may (or may not) help you plot from a character perspective. Part One (this episode) looks at WAKE UP DEAD MAN; while Part Two looks at SIDE EFFECTS, and the pilot episode of SHRINKING. The other two (related) ideas are: Landmark information (characters just have it), Secret (they know it's there, need to unlock it), and Hidden (invisible until they pay the cost) Narrative velocity — are characters pushed forward or are they pulled forward? To that end, in this episode Stu, Chas and Mel start with the murder mystery (ostensibly the easier deep-dive): Rian Johnson’s WAKE UP DEAD MAN. But this is a complex film made even more complex by being a dual-protagonist film. Uhuh. Benoit Blanc is pulled through the story by his need to solve the case; Father Judd pushed through, against his will, to prove his innocence. Breaking down how that plays out — and why it matters for the kind of escalation each character can sustain — is the heart of the episode. And inevitably we go on some tangents: pointers, plants, and underpinnings (from our Everything Everywhere All At Once episode) fair play in locked-room mysteries, Narrative POV (as always) and node-based plotting and what dungeon-crawl game design has to do with writing a web of clues. As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon. Join the discussion on Reddit. Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "Information puts players in danger and danger rewards characters with information, right? That's kind of the loop with like thriller game design." — Stu Willis @ 00:05:40 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Cold Open 00:00:18 – What do we mean by Secrets and Clues? 00:04:17 – › Landmark, hidden, and secret information defined 00:08:10 – › Narrative velocity as push and pull for characters 00:13:22 – WAKE UP DEAD MAN 00:17:56 – › Key learnings preview: push-pull and narrative velocity 00:32:33 – › Mapping character awareness of secrets through WAKE UP DEAD MAN 00:58:21 – › Distinguishing secrets, clues, and hidden information 01:13:17 – › Benoit Blanc's character arc and the choice of grace 01:22:50 – KEY LEARNINGS & WRAP UP 01:24:22 – › Character drives how secrets are hidden and revealed 01:25:34 – › Narrative velocity and escalating stakes reveal character FILMS WAKE UP DEAD MAN (2025) — (w) Rian Johnson SCRIPTS Study the script: WAKE UP DEAD MAN (2025) — Rian Johnson LINKS Read: DIY & dragons: Landmark, Hidden, Secret Read: The Alexandrian » Advanced Node-Based Design Read: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests (Part 1) Read: Ascii Dreams: The Quest for Quests (Part 2) Read: Mel's KNIVES OUT: A Rose by Any Other Name Would Not Clue Us In EPISODES IN THE SECRETS AND CLUES SERIES DZ-126: Secrets and Clues DZ-127: Secrets and Clues 2 - The Cost of Revelation RELATED EPISODES DZ-90: Setups & Payoffs in EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE ——— More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser. We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter. Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-126/

    1h 29m
  3. DZ-125: Oscars One-shot - BLUE MOON

    Feb 26

    DZ-125: Oscars One-shot - BLUE MOON

    Listen if you want to understand how narrative POV, screenplay format, and dialogue craft can elevate a contained biopic into an Oscar-nominated film BLUE MOON is a talky, period-drama that film about an obscure songer-writer in the 1940s. Yet, it attracted world-class talent AND Academy Award nominations, including for it's script. Join Chas & Mel as they explore how narrative POV, interweaving relationships, hooky dialogue, and even the screenplay format itself make the script for BLUE MOON so great. While Stu is still on show and we are between the 2026 Oscar nominations and the actual ceremony, our patreons selected BLUE MOON for this one-shot and boy are Mel and Chas glad they did. They dive into many lessons learned in previous episodes, like our character-driven episode… or analysis of French scenes in Adolescence… or the story-telling power that comes from the audience knowing the ending from biopics. As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon. Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "When I say rules, I mean the prescriptive rules of when someone posts something on screenwriting and everyone goes *Oh, you broke all the rules*. I'm saying this is good. I'm saying most of those rules are suggestions or most of those rules are given to you when you are learning how to write for a reason." — Mel Killingsworth @ 00:38:42 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Cold Open 00:00:32 – What Makes a Contained Biopic Compelling? 00:02:19 – Flashforward Insights: POV, French scenes, dialogue craft, and structure 00:04:32 – BLUE MOON: Plot Summary and Structural Overview 00:08:00 – › How script format signals emotional breaks in a real-time story 00:13:34 – Controlling narrative POV 00:17:13 – › Tragedy versus the life he would have chosen 00:24:09 – › Narrative POV as the film's core structural tool 00:27:49 – Using screenplay FORMAT to reflect the emotional story 00:31:56 – › French scenes and real-time spatial staging 00:35:40 – › How rule-breaking formatting signals emotional truth 00:39:27 – Interweaving relationships: Hart's Relationships as the A, B and C Stories 00:44:50 – › Hart and Rogers: the collision of artistic integrity and commercial success 00:49:14 – › Hart and Elizabeth: desire, repetition, and the just-not-that-way callback 00:53:08 – › The bar regulars as audience surrogates and mirror to Hart's self-awareness 00:56:46 – Repetition and pop culture references in dialogue 00:59:48 – › Repetition as lyrical structure in dialogue craft 01:03:49 – › Tonal variety and mixing registers in witty scripts 01:07:54 – Key Learnings 01:09:48 – › The hidden craft beneath real-time, single-location scripts 01:13:42 – › How cultural touchstones establish stakes without exposition 01:16:02 – Thanks patreons and Oscar-nominated listener! FILMS BLUE MOON (2026) — (w) Robert Kaplow (d) Richard Linklater LINKS Read: BLUE MOON - Scene Headings Breakdown RELATED EPISODES DZ-01: Do Screenplay Gurus win you Oscars? DZ-68: Using POV to structure KNIVES OUT DZ-118: ADOLESCENCE -- How Questions Create Dramatic Tension DZ-90: Setups & Payoffs in EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE DZ-35: Driving Characters or Character Driven? DZ-63: Tools for Better Dialogue 2 - Hook and Eye ——— More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser. We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter. Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-125/

    1h 18m
  4. DZ-124: Making the Despicable Compelling

    Jan 30

    DZ-124: Making the Despicable Compelling

    Listen if you need audiences to root for characters who do terrible things Mel and Chas continue to explore what Noir (the genre) can teach writers of all other genres. In particular: How to keep the audience on side of characters doing reprehensible things; How to control your audience understanding of those reprehensible actions; and Distinguishing between characters undergoing transformative arcs against discovering their true natures In finding the common craft tools of Noir over 100 years, this Part 2 looks at two modern noirs – DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS (1995) and WOMAN OF THE HOUR (2024) – after Part 1 looked at the classic DOUBLE INDEMNITY and THE LONG GOODBYE. Despite Chas claiming to have edited this episode it was, in fact, Chris Walker who saved the day and got this done. Thanks Chris. As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Thanks to our Patrons, especially Khrob, Theis, Sandra, Jesse, Randy, Paulo, Thomas, Jennifer, Malay, Alexandre and Lily. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "I think these films have got really strong control over the questions and that's how they get us to follow, compelling us to follow characters who are doing terrible things." — Chas Fisher @ 01:06:08 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Using noir as a lens 00:01:56 – DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS 00:07:06 – › Period setting, race, and noir's embedded worldview 00:10:30 – › Voiceover as access to morally compromised decisions 00:22:02 – › How the film justifies rooting for Easy's transgressions 00:29:09 – › Character worldview versus film worldview in noir 00:31:33 – WOMAN OF THE HOUR 00:37:15 – › Why WOMAN OF THE HOUR qualifies as noir 00:43:25 – › The system as collective villain enabling the killer 00:53:12 – › Depiction without endorsement, empathy without sympathy 01:04:30 – Key Learnings 01:08:50 – Thank you Patreons! FILMS DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS (1995) — (w) Carl Franklin, Walter Mosley (d) Carl Franklin WOMAN OF THE HOUR (2024) — (w) Ian Mcdonald (d) Anna Kendrick LINKS Shot Zero: Noir shots in WOMAN OF THE HOUR EPISODES IN THE NOIR SERIES DZ-123: Flawed Characters in Noir DZ-124: Making the Despicable Compelling RELATED EPISODES DZ-123: Flawed Characters in Noir DZ-03: Making Unlikeable Protagonists Compelling DZ-110: Voiceover ——— More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser. We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter. Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2026/dz-124/

    1h 11m
  5. DZ-123: Flawed Characters in Noir

    12/31/2025

    DZ-123: Flawed Characters in Noir

    Listen if you want to write morally compromised characters without endorsing their choices. In this two part series, Mel and Chas use Noir (the genre) as a lens to interrogate flawed characters. How can characters doing reprehensible things still engage audiences? How can you ensure representation isn’t endorsement? And whether these characters undergo transformative arcs, or simply reveal their true natures? Part 1 (DZ-123) focuses on two (now classic) noirs: DOUBLE INDEMNITY and THE LONG GOODBYE. While Part 2 (DZ-124) looks at two more contemporary examples DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS and WOMAN OF THE HOUR. Despite Chas claiming to have edited this episode it was, in fact, Chris Walker who saved the day and got this done by the end of 2025. Thanks Chris. As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon. Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Thanks to our Patrons, especially Lily, Paulo, Alexandre, Malay, Jennifer, Thomas, Randy, Jesse, Sandra, Theis and Khrob. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "This is the philosophical question, right? When you get drunk, do you change what you do or do you simply allow your inhibitions to fall and do what you would normally want to do?" — Mel Killingsworth @ 00:42:04 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Cold Open 00:00:17 – Flawed Characters and Noir 00:03:06 – › Writing morally compromised characters without endorsing their worldview 00:08:41 – › Defining film noir as genre, style, and worldview 00:14:27 – › Noir's reach across decades of screenwriting 00:16:40 – DOUBLE INDEMNITY 00:21:41 – › Diegetic confession and its structural function 00:27:17 – › Telling the audience the crime upfront removes justification burden 00:32:24 – › How everyman framing sustains complicity in a morally bankrupt protagonist 00:41:43 – › Whether morally compromised characters genuinely change or self-reveal 00:49:17 – › Film worldview versus character desire: crime without endorsement 00:53:38 – THE LONG GOODBYE 01:00:17 – › Save the cat: establishing a morally complex protagonist 01:06:26 – › Transgression, personal code, and the inevitability of noir failure 01:14:13 – › Character change versus worldview shift at the ending 01:21:15 – Wrap Up and Key Learnings FILMS DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944) — (w) Raymond Chandler, James M Cain, Billy Wilder (d) Billy Wilder THE LONG GOODBYE (1973) — (w) Leigh Brackett, Raymond Chandler (d) Robert Altman SCRIPTS Study the script: THE LONG GOODBYE (1973) — Leigh Brackett, Raymond Chandler SHOT ZERO DEEP DIVES Blocking a Sneak: DOUBLE INDEMNITY LINKS Read: Mel's A Brief History of Queer Coding in Film Part 1 EPISODES IN THE NOIR SERIES DZ-123: Flawed Characters in Noir DZ-124: Making the Despicable Compelling ——— More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser. We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter. Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2025/dz-123/

    1h 23m
  6. 1dZ-01: Arkyvrs - A Mansion Most Vile - Ep1

    10/26/2025 ·  Bonus

    1dZ-01: Arkyvrs - A Mansion Most Vile - Ep1

    What happens when a group of filmmakers play a ragtag group of filmmakers in a gritty sci-fi horror? "Ignite the fire within and explore unknown territory" - Werner Herzog. This episode is unusual, even by Draft Zero standards. It's an "Actual Play Podcast" where Chas, Stu, & Mel are joined by Kim Ho and Luke Clark to play MOTHERSHIP, the sci-fi horror game we talked about in episodes DZ-121 and DZ-122. Stu is the GM while everyone else is a ragtag crew of freelance filmmakers. We debrief the experience (so far) at the end of the episode) Mel plays Zara, the glamorous face of the operation. Chas plays Winston, the cynical and egoistical "photojournalist". Kim is Cal, the scrappy scrounger and sound recordists, while Luke is Tarsos the steadfast producer of the group. The crew are enlisted to record a sensationalist report on a missing corporate president before the mercenary retrieval team arrives. And yeah, this means we're soft-launching yet another project that's called 1dZ, which looks at how we can use tools from ttrpgs in screenwriting… and vice versa. To get future episodes go to: http://www.1d-zero.com/ CHAPTERS 00:00:11 - Intro for DZ Listeners00:01:51 - Meet the Snortin' Betsy00:06:22 - A Mansion Most Vile (Ep 1)01:52:32 - Debrief through TOMBSRELATED EPISODES DZ-121: Escalating Antagonism 1: SinnersDZ-122: Escalating Antagonism 2: Rebel Ridge + Meet the ParentsLINKS Tuesday Knight GamesJoshua Kramer: A Mansion Most VileAlewood Games: ArkyvrNobody Wake the BugbearCampaign SuppliesMore Draft Zero is brought to you more often by our awesome Patreons. Especially Lily, Paulo, Alexandre, Malay, Jennifer, Thomas, Randy, Jesse, Sandra, Theis, and Khrob. Please considering rating or subscribing to us on Apple Podcasts or sharing us on the Social Medias! We like finding new listeners. We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter. SUBSCRIBE TO SHOT ZERO via Substack SUBSCRIBE TO 1DZERO via Substack ACKNOWLEDGES via our website: https://draft-zero.com/2025/1dz-01/

    2h 8m
  7. DZ-122: Escalating Antagonism Across Genres

    10/01/2025

    DZ-122: Escalating Antagonism Across Genres

    Listen to learn how thinking of your hero as the horror (for your villains) makes your script dynamic. In this episode Chas, Stu and guest Kim Ho continue their exploration into the power(s) of antagonism and how focusing on them can develop story. While Part 1 looked at the horror film SINNERS, in Part 2 we venture into genres beyond horror with the action-thriller REBEL RIDGE, and the comedy classic MEET THE PARENTS. To both these films we apply the generative story framework TOMBS (Transgression – Omens – Manifestation – Banishment – Slumber) and are surprised at just how well it maps. TOMBS comes from the MOTHERSHIP sci-fi horror table-top role-playing game. Which we love. We explore how TOMBS, and thinking about antagonism in general, allows writers to deepen their understanding of their characters, their relationship of the heroes with the antagonists, and generate story fuel in a way that escalates the story. We discuss how thinking of your hero as the horror for your villains helps everything become more dynamic. Oh, and we talk about launching an actual play podcast. Which is happening. Stay tuned! As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon. Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Thanks to our Patrons, especially Lily, Paulo, Alexandre, Malay, Jennifer, Thomas, Randy, Jesse, Sandra, Theis and Khrob. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "There's a great line from Don Johnson later where he says, the deal was fair. The issue is that you felt that you were allowed to offer it. He tells him that he has transgressed against the rules of the laws or the rules of this system of this world." — Chas Fisher @ 00:12:09 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Cold Open 00:00:12 – Escalating Antagonism Part 2 00:03:29 – REBEL RIDGE 00:09:30 – › Writing loglines from the antagonist's perspective 00:14:36 – › Tombs cycle maps onto hero and villain escalation 00:25:07 – › Solve, survive, save structure in action films 00:33:16 – › Self-restraint as survival within systemic corruption 00:45:30 – MEET THE PARENTS 00:51:55 – › Greg's lying as the true transgression engine 00:57:41 – › Structural turning points and escalating disaster beats 01:01:28 – › Jack versus Greg's insecurity as twin sources of antagonism 01:19:33 – › Applying TOMBS structure to map omens and manifestation 01:30:29 – Key Learnings & Wrap Up 01:34:38 – › Mapping antagonism sources to escalate story conflict 01:38:53 – › Expanding beyond Western storytelling structures 01:41:38 – Thanks to our Patreons FILMS REBEL RIDGE (2024) — (w) Jeremy Saulnier MEET THE PARENTS (2000) — (w) Jim Herzfeld, John Hamburg (d) Jay Roach LINKS IMDB: Kim Ho Explore: Mothership YouTube: The Philosophy of Final Destination Read: The Philosophy of Horror or Paradoxes of the Heart by Noël Carroll YouTube: GinnyDI - "This Game used 5 steps to scare the crap out of me" Listen: 1dZ-01: Arkyvrs - A Mansion Most Vile - Ep1 EPISODES IN THE ESCALATING ANTAGONISM SERIES DZ-121: Escalating Antagonism in SINNERS DZ-122: Escalating Antagonism Across Genres RELATED EPISODES DZ-49: Antagonists! 1 - vs Humans ——— More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser. We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter. Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2025/dz-122/

    1h 45m
  8. DZ-121: Escalating Antagonism in SINNERS

    08/29/2025

    DZ-121: Escalating Antagonism in SINNERS

    Listen to strengthen your story by focusing on the antagonistic forces in your script. We often struggle to develop the middle stages of a story. Could this be because we focus on our protagonists’ journeys and plot structure more than on how the antagonistic powers are awakened, wronged, discovered, gathering strength and revealing themselves? In this episode, Chas and Stu are joined by professional screenwriter and playwright Kim Ho to explore how a generative story cycle (from tabletop role-playing game MOTHERSHIP) can be used to develop stories, not just write them better. This cycle is TOMBS: Transgression – Omens – Manifestation – Banishment – Slumber. Kim also contrasts this cycle with the Onset, Discovery, Confirmation, Confrontation cycle identified by horror philosopher Noel Carroll, as well as the philosophy of the FINAL DESTINATION franchise as analysed by The Morbid Zoo. By applying the TOMBS cycle to Ryan Coogler’s amazing 2025 original feature SINNERS, we discover how focusing on the rising power of the various sources of antagonism can generate narrative fuel (and make your second Act sing); force your protagonists to Survive, Solve or Save (pick one); and how this escalation in antagonism can be mapped quite separately from your protagonists’ character arcs. To prove that TOMBS does not just work for horror stories, we polled our patreons for which other genres to explore. Stay turned for the next episode (DZ-122) where we apply the TOMBS cycle to thriller REBEL RIDGE and comedy classic MEET THE PARENTS. As always: SPOILERS ABOUND and all copyright material used under fair use for educational purposes. LIKE THIS EPISODE? Discuss with our Patrons on Patreon. Watch and comment on YouTube. Send us feedback. Thanks to our Patrons, especially Lily, Paulo, Alexandre, Malay, Jennifer, Thomas, Randy, Jesse, Sandra, Theis and Khrob. → Read the transcript for this episode. ——— "when you use those structures that are out there, they tend to be around plot and they tend to think primarily from the protagonist's point of view. And using this system, we can actually look at the forces of antagonism in a story." — Chas Fisher @ 00:06:31 ——— CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Cold open 00:00:18 – What is T.O.M.B.S? 00:06:31 – › How TOMBS shifts focus to antagonistic forces 00:15:22 – › Reading the five stages of the TOMBS cycle 00:24:12 – › Transgression as thematic and social boundary violation 00:31:04 – SINNERS 00:36:01 – › Delayed horror manifestation and the TOMBS framework 00:45:31 – › Mapping transgression and omens across dual antagonists 00:57:48 – › Confirmation, confrontation, and the stages of horror 01:08:09 – › Survive, solve, save as competing character objectives 01:17:51 – Key Learnings & Wrap Up 01:23:51 – Thank you patreons! FILMS SINNERS (2025) — (w) Ryan Coogler SCRIPTS Study the script: SINNERS (2025) — Ryan Coogler LINKS IMDB: Kim Ho Explore: Mothership YouTube: The Philosophy of Final Destination by the Morbid Zoo Read: The Philosophy of Horror by Noel Carroll EPISODES IN THE ESCALATING ANTAGONISM SERIES DZ-121: Escalating Antagonism in SINNERS DZ-122: Escalating Antagonism Across Genres RELATED EPISODES DZ-49: Antagonists! 1 - vs Humans ——— More Draft Zero is brought to you by our awesome Patreons. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts, a rating on Spotify, or a review on Podchaser. We are @stuwillis, @mehlsbells and @chasffisher on Twitter. You can find @draft_zero and @_shotzero on Instagram and Twitter. Full show notes at: https://draft-zero.com/2025/dz-121/

    1h 25m
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4.8
out of 5
114 Ratings

About

Two emerging screenwriters – Chas Fisher and Stuart Willis – try to work out what makes great screenplays work. Discovering what it takes by analysing what successful writers put on the page.

Information

  • Creator
    Chas Fisher and Stuart Willis
  • Years Active
    2014 - 2026
  • Episodes
    131
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Presented by Chas Fisher & Stuart Willis. Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.
  • Show Website
    Draft Zero: a screenwriting podcast

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