Theology Kills

January Jaxon and Andrew McRae

Toxic theologies have been weaponized to wound, but the gospel was always meant to be medicine. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae blend Internal Family Systems theory with the mimetic anthropology of René Girard to uncover a Christ-centered theology of integrity that heals shame, fosters embodiment, and creates contagious peace in the midst of a world at war. Balancing scriptural insight with personal reflections and simple everyday practices, each episode explores the ways that violence warps our creativity, our relationships, and our sense of self — and how divine love sets us free.

Episodes

  1. Season 1

    Season 1 Trailer — Welcome to Theology Kills

    Bad theology kills your soul. Good theology kills what’s crushing your soul.  Welcome to Theology Kills, a podcast about letting our shame & violence die so that life & love can thrive.  You were never meant to feel like a problem to be fixed. You were made for joy, freedom, peace, belonging, and creativity. But creativity can be hijacked — mis-used to create shame and blame that keep you anxious, angry, and perpetually unmoored.  What if you could quit that toxic cycle? This season on Theology Kills, we’re looking at Christian scripture through the lens of Maureen Murdock’s Heroine’s Journey. This mythological framework sheds unexpected light on the stories of Eve and Mary, inviting us to consider that creativity, not correct behavior, is how God brings the Kingdom of Heaven to earth. As we follow these women from the fall of humanity to the foot of the Cross, we’ll reclaim discipleship as a creative adventure of trust, integrity, and vulnerability that transforms us into peacemakers, not just peacekeepers.  Each episode includes:— A theological insight that reads Scripture from a posture of wholeness and divine nonviolence— A conversation between the hosts where we wrestle with what that looks like in real life— A simple creative or contemplative practice to help you live it, not just think about it  “This is for anyone tired of facile answers to deep questions about relating to ourselves and relating to God. You’ll appreciate how January and Andrew articulate complex ideas with humor and grace. You're going to want to listen more than once! (I did!)” —Rev. Kari ReitenTheology Kills is exclusively listener-supported. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

    Season 1 Trailer — Welcome to Theology Kills
  2. Season 1

    The Heroine’s Journey:
 Eve, Mary, and The Trap of Trying to Do It All “Right”


    What if Christian faith isn’t about being correct, but about being creative? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae explore Maureen Murdock’s Heroine’s Journey through two of history’s most famous women: Eve, the mother of all, and Mary, the mother of Jesus. From the Fall to the Cross, they unveil a spiritual adventure that transforms shame, violence, and mimetic rivalry into trust, integrity, and creative power. You’ll hear: A fresh theological reading of Eve and MaryWhy creativity — not correct behavior — brings love into the worldThe 10 stages of the Creative JourneyReal stories about freezing in moments when love called us to act — and what it takes to become the kind of people who can say yesPLUS practices of Sabbath, stillness, and open-focus attention that make space for that shift to begin. “Honestly, I was skeptical — but this was lots of fun to listen to. Extremely relatable and a great chemistry/dynamic between the cohosts. This changed my idea of what a Christian podcast is.”—Matthew Gordon Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian theology, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and the theological legacy of women in Christian scripture. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:17) - Presentation: The Theology of The Heroine's Journey (23:19) - Where do these ideas become experiences? (32:35) - How can we move from paralysis to action? (38:26) - The 10 Stages of the Creative's Journey (44:21) - What's significant about Being? (51:33) - Why do over-Doing and Gathering Allies go together? (55:53) - How are obstacles a blessing?! (01:00:17) - The social element of success (01:02:36) - Can we actually practice awakening? (01:06:15) - It's a Journey, not a destination (01:09:47) - The role of Initiation (01:17:24) - When yearning feels like dissatisfaction (01:20:55) - Who's actually doing the Healing? (01:25:48) - Broken trust and broken faith (01:38:02) - When does our Doing get wounded? (01:41:15) - Balancing Being with Doing (01:50:33) - The practice of stillness, Sabbath, and open focus (02:01:02) - End Credits Click here to view this episode's transcript. Theology Kills is exclusively listener-funded. Subscribe to us on Patreon for bonus audio, downloadable worksheets, and a friendly community to carry on the conversation. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★ Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

    The Heroine’s Journey:
 Eve, Mary, and The Trap of Trying to Do It All “Right”

  3. Season 1

    Creativity as Pregnancy:
 Sarah, Hannah, and Creating Love Instead of Violence

    What if the Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a perfection to achieve but a gift to receive? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae unpack the Bible’s quietly subversive use of pregnancy as a metaphor for creativity — the vulnerable, sometimes-painful labor of bringing aliveness into the world. Contrasting Sarah’s violence with Hannah’s trust, the hosts follow Saint Paul in imagining a Kingdom born from cooperation instead of control. You’ll hear: Why it’s a form of violence when we try to achieve God’s promises instead of receiving them Why Genesis 3:16 might not be about divine punishment, gender hierarchy, or marital submissionHow Paul’s Christian conversion transformed his understanding of power from militant retribution into motherhood, birth pangs, and nursingThe important distinction between healthy receiving and harmful passivityPLUS a “mini-manifesto” exercise to help your creativity work toward your values — not against them. “This podcast helped me realize that it’s okay — it’s more than okay — to bring the ideas that most move us and interest us into conversation with our Christianity. I love the idea that we can play/be creative even in the area of our own theology.” —Teresa Stone Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian mimetic theory, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and the theology of creativity. Chapters: (00:00) - Creativity as Pregnancy:
 Sarah, Hannah, and Creating Love Instead of Violence (01:38) - Presentation: The Biblical Metaphor of Pregnancy (21:12) - What does Andrew find relatable about pregnancy? (23:43) - From grief to promise in 1 Samuel 1 (30:01) - Pregnancy as an interpretive frame (37:57) - 100% receptive, 0% passive (42:17) - What we mean when we talk about the Kingdom of God (49:47) - Exegesis of 1 Timothy 2:8-15 (55:51) - The mis-use of Saint Paul to subjugate women (58:20) - "Lifting up holy hands without anger and dispute" (01:00:31) - "A woman must learn in quietness and full submission" (01:02:33) - "But she will be saved through the childbearing" (01:05:31) - God's Gospel can undo misogyny from inside a misogynistic text (01:09:20) - Would Paul have understood pregnancy as creativity? (01:12:23) - Historical nuances to understanding "authority" (01:16:44) - Historical context for "learning quietly" (01:22:46) - "What is your life pregnant with?" (01:32:43) - We don't have to know what we're pregnant with (01:37:10) - The practice of making a Mini Manifesto (01:51:48) - End Credits Click here to view this episode's transcript. Theology Kills is exclusively listener-funded. Subscribe to us on Patreon for bonus audio, downloadable worksheets, and a friendly community to carry on the conversation. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★ Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

    Creativity as Pregnancy:
 Sarah, Hannah, and Creating Love Instead of Violence
  4. Season 1

    Shame as Internal Violence:
 Eve, the Serpent, and the Original Sin of Self-Abandonment

    What if shame isn’t just a feeling, but an internalized form of violence? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae explore a reading of Genesis 3 through the eyes of the victim, interpreting humanity’s Fall into sin as an inflicted wound, not a willful disobedience. Drawing a parallel between the anthropology of René Girard and the psychological model mapped by Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy, they imagine a path beyond violence rooted in trust, integration, and the refusal to war against ourselves. You’ll hear: Why we understand shame as a violence against ourselvesHow Girard’s prohibition, sacrifice, and myth echo IFS managers, firefighters, and exiles — both stabilize identity by concealing violenceWhy “perfect love casts out fear” might mean embrace, not expulsionWhat the Trinitarian nature of God may show us about a way to be human without violencePLUS a “Letters from Unconditional Love” practice to build the habit of speaking with compassion instead of accusation. “Great banter and raw honesty. I didn’t expect a Christian podcast to give me ideas that could help me look inward at things I have avoided.” —CandieIdeal for listeners interested in Girardian mimetic theory, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and emotionally healthy theology. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:02) - Presentation: Eve and the Internal Violence of Shame (22:17) - Where have we experienced the violence of shame? (35:43) - The difference between shame and humility (44:23) - "Perfect love casts out all fear" (51:13) - Mapping IFS parts with Girard's 3 characteristics of human religion (01:08:02) - A brief history of the Doctrine of The Trinity (01:24:58) -   The Trinity shows us how parts might work (01:37:13) - The practice of "Letters from Unconditional Love" (01:57:10) - End credits Click here to view this episode's transcript. Theology Kills is exclusively listener-funded. Subscribe to us on Patreon for bonus audio, downloadable worksheets, and a friendly community to carry on the conversation. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★ Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

    Shame as Internal Violence:
 Eve, the Serpent, and the Original Sin of Self-Abandonment
  5. Season 1

    Blame as External Violence:
 Cain, Abel, and the Temptation to Make Someone Else the Problem


    What if blame isn’t a path to justice, but a catharsis for pain we don’t know how to process? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae continue their reading of Genesis, interpreting the story of Cain and Abel as an attempt to solve inner conflict by exporting it. Charting a connection from Eve’s self-betrayal to the brother-betrayal of her children, Jaxon and McRae draw on René Girard and Internal Family Systems to suggest that violence begins long before physical harm is done — in the moment we decide someone is an obstacle to overcome instead of a person to love. You’ll hear: How internal shame becomes external blameWhy disgust — not just desire — drives the scapegoat mechanismWhy eliminating the “problem person” never creates lasting peace The important distinction between naming harm and needing a villainPLUS practices of confession and forgiveness that interrupt self-righteousness and help us recognize ourselves in the person we blame. “This is for anyone tired of facile answers to deep questions about relating to ourselves and relating to God. You’ll appreciate how January and Andrew articulate complex ideas with humor and grace. You're going to want to listen more than once! (I did!)” —Rev. Kari ReitenIdeal for listeners interested in Girardian mimetic theory, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and breaking cycles of relational violence. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:21) - Presentation: Cain, Abel, and Blame as External Violence (23:40) - Is the Satanic accusation a moment of mimetic disgust? (30:15) - Can we protect against mimetic blame by healing disgust? (36:49) - Shame and blame in the parable of the Prodigal Son (41:51) - Avoiding our pain versus tormenting ourselves with it (46:29) - The Parable of the Weeds and the Wheat (Matthew 13:24-30) (57:02) - Jesus doesn't see hungry people as obstacles to his grieving (58:19) - Mark chapter 2 shows the escalation of blame (01:00:31) - Andrew shares a story of blaming (01:14:22) - Introducing "Eucontamination" by Paul Hoard and Billie Hoard (01:17:08) - Cultivating joy as an antidote to disgust (01:20:39) - The Hebrew etymology of Cain's name (01:24:34) - God cursed the serpent — but NOT the humans (01:30:53) - The practice of confession & forgiveness (01:41:06) - Unpacking what forgiveness is and isn't (01:49:13) - "Reality is only knowable through forgiveness" (01:52:15) - End credits Click here to view this episode's transcript. Theology Kills is exclusively listener-funded. Subscribe to us on Patreon for bonus audio, downloadable worksheets, and a friendly community to carry on the conversation. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★ Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

    Blame as External Violence:
 Cain, Abel, and the Temptation to Make Someone Else the Problem

  6. Season 1

    Creativity and Trust:
 Mary the Mother of Jesus and the Upside-Down Power of Vulnerability

    What if vulnerability isn’t a weakness to overcome, but a creative power to embrace? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae turn to Mary, the mother of Jesus, as the counterpoint to Eve — a living model of what it means to trust God despite confusion, risk, and pain. From the Annunciation to the wedding at Cana to the grief of the Crucifixion, they explore how Mary’s trust gave birth to divine Love in the world. You’ll hear: How Mary’s response to lack at Cana rewrites Eve’s story in the GardenWhy faith is actually the prerequisite for curiosity, not its antithesisWhy the question of inerrancy is a category error when it comes to Christian scriptureWhat becomes possible when we stay present to pain instead of escaping or controlling itPLUS an everyday practice of curiosity and witness that transforms aggravation into trust. “What I love most about this episode is how you bring the scripture to life; you really bring the humanity back into the words. You are able to access and transmit revelations in these ancient stories… and it is life giving.”—Jessica Peterson Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian theology, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and the power of faith to create peace even in a world warped by war. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:06) - Presentation: Mary's Radical Trust in Divine Love (24:57) - "Two women exhorting each other to trust their experience" (29:28) - Mary inverts Eve's mistrust at Cana (31:20) - Philip Pullman, His Dark Materials, and faith as the prerequisite for curiosity (38:21) - Jurors and Detectives (41:42) - "Inerrant" is the wrong word for Christian scripture (48:00) - "Certainty is a gift of the Holy Spirit" (49:15) - Curiosity as the engine that generates Being — and by extension, Love (55:28) - Does the IFS Self ever feel surprised? (57:49) - Is lack a prerequisite for curiosity? (01:02:02) - How a moment of joy sparked curiosity that undermined disgust (01:08:53) - Genesis 19 is not about gay men, it's about who's allowed to decide who belongs (01:14:00) - "Every straight person in Bible times lived in the closet" (01:19:21) - When is it okay to stop being curious? (01:23:16) - How did Mary live Jesus' way despite her lack of social privilege? (01:27:57) - Practice: Meet your Creature, Controller, and Compassionate Witness (01:46:56) - End credits Click here to view this episode's transcript. Theology Kills is exclusively listener-funded. Subscribe to us on Patreon for bonus audio, downloadable worksheets, and a friendly community to carry on the conversation. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★ Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

    Creativity and Trust:
 Mary the Mother of Jesus and the Upside-Down Power of Vulnerability
  7. Season 1

    Creativity and The Body:
 The Scapegoating of Embodiment and How Communion Puts an End to Purity Culture

    What if your body isn’t a liability to control or escape, but a site of divine revelation and relationship? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae confront the contamination anxiety that distorts Christian theologies of the body, and explore how the Incarnation contradicts that disgust with radical, embodied presence. Culminating in a Eucharistic vision of wholeness, they challenge listeners to imagine what’s possible when we follow Jesus’ example of encountering, instead of expelling, the Other. You’ll hear: Why tying holiness to purity drives shame, exclusion, and violenceWhy disgust — not just desire — fuels the scapegoat mechanismWhat Paul actually meant by “flesh” (and why it’s not your body)What happens when Jesus crosses his culture’s boundaries of disease, gender, and social statusHow Christ’s Holy Spirit redefines holiness as catholicity rather than purityPLUS a practice for listening to your body as a trustworthy source of wisdom in everyday discernment. “January’s faith is largely orthodox in its content — she doesn’t throw out important traditional concepts. But, she comes to those concepts with tools of contemporary outsider culture. It all feels authentic and integral, not like she’s trying to ‘make tradition cool for the kids’ or something. She truly sees the radical heart of Christianity.”—Teresa Stone Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian theology, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and embodied Christianity. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:07) - Presentation: Reclaiming Incarnation as Holy (28:01) - Holiness isn't avoiding contaminants, it's BEING a contaminant (30:56) - Purity in an Evangelical church and a Buddhist monastery (34:33) - Purity that integrates rather than expels (38:03) - When is disgust protective, and when is it violent? (42:21) - What changes when we move from purity to participation? (52:34) - Is God ever disgusted? (01:00:59) - Caitlin Metz's method for identifying activism opportunities (01:07:34) - The giving of the Holy Spirit and the shamelessness of prayer (01:14:27) - Distinguishing the voice of the body vs the voice of trauma (01:27:28) - Naming harm vs needing a villain (01:31:21) - Are there ever times when the body is the problem? (01:34:34) - "We're resident aliens in our own body" (01:36:24) - The practice of Calibrating The Body Compass (02:00:30) - End credits Click here to view this episode's transcript. Theology Kills is exclusively listener-funded. Subscribe to us on Patreon for bonus audio, downloadable worksheets, and a friendly community to carry on the conversation. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★ Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

    Creativity and The Body:
 The Scapegoating of Embodiment and How Communion Puts an End to Purity Culture
  8. Season 1

    Creativity and Integrity:
 Martha, Peter, and a Path to Nonviolent Conflict


    What if peace isn’t the absence of conflict, but the presence of integrity? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae explore Jesus’ startling claim that he came not to bring peace, but division — and how his presence exposes the false peace we create through compliance, control, and avoidance. Drawing on psychologist Karen Horney’s conflict coping strategies and master coach Jen Johnsen’s model of conflict-with-integrity, they imagine a nonviolent way of staying in relationship when tensions threaten to tear us apart. You’ll hear: Karen Horney’s three conflict strategies (and why they produce false peace)How presence, truth, and kindness bring us back into wholenessHow Thomas Merton’s little brother modeled integrity in a moment of conflictThe power of Jesus’ prayer to see his enemies through God’s eyes — not his ownPLUS an exercise for identifying where violent social systems are mirrored in your own inner life, so you can practice peace from the inside out. “I love and fully respect where you two have taken the conversation and I find it personally meaningful despite being ‘outside' the church teachings.”—Jessica Peterson Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian theology, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and the power of active nonviolence to transform violent systems. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:08) - Presentation: The Theology of Peaceful Conflict (23:30) - A working definition of integrity (32:20) - Can we recognize integrity with the help of purpose? (41:22) - "An absence of resistance to what is" (43:33) - Earth as What Is, and Heaven as What Ought To Be (49:25) - Thomas Merton's brother models conflict with integrity (57:48) - Being, Doing, and dis-integration (01:05:34) - Is it even possible for Doing to come before Being? (01:13:09) - "Love your neighbor as yourself" is both individual and social (01:19:03) - Are our conflict strategies always obvious? (01:25:57) - Resentment as a warning sign (01:27:46) - The practice of Fractal Integrity (01:52:46) - The 10 Commandments and the contagiousness of love and care (02:00:10) - End credits Click here to view this episode's transcript. Theology Kills is exclusively listener-funded. Subscribe to us on Patreon for bonus audio, downloadable worksheets, and a friendly community to carry on the conversation. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★ Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

    Creativity and Integrity:
 Martha, Peter, and a Path to Nonviolent Conflict

  9. Season 1

    Father of Lies, Thief of Trust:
 Disbelieving the Devil and Giving Our Attention Back to God


    What if obedience isn’t about mindless rule-following, but about whose voice we trust to help us interpret our reality? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae dive into the linguistic roots of the word “obedience” and draw parallels with René Girard’s concept of méconnaissance, or misrecognition. Moving from the neuroscience of human attention to Simone Weil’s theology of affliction, they look at how “The Father of Lies” warps the human imagination and how the Crucifixion re-orients us to the truth that God withholds nothing from us — not even God’s own life. You’ll hear: The roots of obedience as “listening toward” and why that might change how we understand the FallWhy Jesus calls Satan “a murderer from the beginning,” even though we never see the devil raise a bladeHow Jesus exposes the lie at the heart of accusation without retaliating against his accusersWhy disbelieving lies requires more than tearing false stories down — it requires learning what truth feels like in the bodyPLUS January demonstrates The Work of Byron Katie, a practice of embodied inquiry that can help us stop obeying the lies that keep us trapped. “What I feel most is the infectious enthusiasm and life force that is created between the hosts. It holds a spark that can rekindle faith. Their connection is palpable and the perspectives they’re bringing to the conversation breathe life back into the teachings.”—Jessica Peterson Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian mimetic theory, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and the neuroscience of human attention. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:10) - Presentation: Disbelieving the Devil's Lies (34:11) - Is background listening "listening toward"? (39:51) - Is willful disobedience even a thing? (43:08) - Are lack and abundance really opposites? (54:59) - Wait. Does that mean life is a bigger reality than death?! (01:04:26) - Compassion, attentive presence, and Girardian mediation (01:11:09) - What does it mean to "stop listening toward" our shame & blame? (01:20:40) - How do we learn to recognize truth, then? (01:32:05) - Introducing The Work of Byron Katie (01:45:09) - January demonstrates The Work (02:07:48) - Questioning our misrecognitions renders violence less contagious (02:13:26) - End credits Click here to view this episode's transcript. Theology Kills is exclusively listener-funded. Subscribe to us on Patreon for bonus audio, downloadable worksheets, and a friendly community to carry on the conversation. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★ Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

    Father of Lies, Thief of Trust:
 Disbelieving the Devil and Giving Our Attention Back to God


Trailer

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
3 Ratings

About

Toxic theologies have been weaponized to wound, but the gospel was always meant to be medicine. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae blend Internal Family Systems theory with the mimetic anthropology of René Girard to uncover a Christ-centered theology of integrity that heals shame, fosters embodiment, and creates contagious peace in the midst of a world at war. Balancing scriptural insight with personal reflections and simple everyday practices, each episode explores the ways that violence warps our creativity, our relationships, and our sense of self — and how divine love sets us free.