Law://WhatsNext

Tom Rice and Alex Herrity

How are leading practitioners leveraging emerging technologies and ways of working to pursue their passion and objectives, and as a by product what are the implications for the future of legal practice? Let’s explore this together. What to expect: - Focused conversations with leading practitioners; technologists and educators - Deep dives into the intersection of law, technology, and organisational behaviour - Practical analysis and visualisation of how AI is augmenting our potential - Insights from adjacent industries that might inform our own

  1. Visualising Justice: Rule Mapping and the Future of Legal AI with Stephan Breidenbach

    23 SEPT

    Visualising Justice: Rule Mapping and the Future of Legal AI with Stephan Breidenbach

    We sit down with Stephan Breidenbach, co-founder of the Rulemapping Group and a German scholar who's been quietly revolutionising how we think about law, technology, and democratic governance since the early 2000s. What started as a teaching tool to help law students visualise complex legal reasoning has evolved into something far more ambitious: a comprehensive system for transforming laws into executable code that maintains human oversight while dramatically improving access to justice. Stephan's present work spans three critical areas: decision automation (turning legal rules into fast, transparent systems), rule-based AI (supporting human lawyers with explainable reasoning), and law as code (drafting legislation that's both human and machine-readable from day one). Some of our highlights from the conversation: The Transparency Imperative: "I would never trust an LLM with a legal process because it's confabulating" Stephan declares, highlighting why the Rulemapping approach prioritises explainable AI over black-box solutions. Their system lets human decision-makers see exactly how the AI reached its conclusions – a "zoom in, zoom out" process that mirrors how lawyers naturally think. Democracy-First Technology: Unlike Silicon Valley's "move fast and break things" mentality, Stephan advocates for keeping humans in the loop even when AI becomes more accurate: "I think it's very important for trust in the legal system and therefore in a democratic system that there are human beings, even if they make worse decisions." Access to Justice at Scale: Through real-world deployments like processing 500,000 diesel emission scandal cases and serving as Europe's first certified Digital Services Act dispute resolution body, Rulemapping demonstrates how thoughtful automation can make legal systems accessible to everyone, not just those who can afford lawyers. We also explore the behavioural risks of over-relying on automated systems, the potential for "law as code" to improve democratic participation, and Stephan's vision of embedded law that serves citizens rather than bureaucracy. If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! For more thought-provoking content at the intersection of law and technology, head to https://lawwhatsnext.substack.com/ for more of the same.

    41 min
  2. Building A Scalable Privacy Function That Matters with Ben Martin

    16 SEPT

    Building A Scalable Privacy Function That Matters with Ben Martin

    We catch up with Ben Martin, the former Director of Privacy at Trustpilot and author of "GDPR for Startups," who's currently living his best life somewhere in the Estonian wilderness with a camper van, fishing rod, and blessed freedom from subject access requests. Having built privacy programs at high-growth companies like Trustpilot, Ovo Energy, and King Digital Entertainment, Ben brings a refreshingly practical perspective to privacy law that goes way beyond compliance theatre. From his sabbatical perch in the Nordics, he reflects on everything from why GDPR hasn't quite delivered its promised outcomes to how privacy lawyers are uniquely positioned to lead AI governance. What We Cover: The Sabbatical Chronicles: Ben's epic Nordic adventure and why stepping away from work sometimes gives you the clearest perspective on it Privacy Program Building: Moving from compliance theatre to business enablement, and why good privacy programs start with genuine curiosity about products GDPR Reality Check: Why the regulation might not have quite yet delivered its intended outcomes and the types of privacy lawyers and approaches Ben sees in practice AI Governance Evolution: How privacy professionals are naturally stepping into AI oversight roles and what new skills they need to develop Technical Literacy: The importance of understanding what your business actually builds and Ben's practical approach to learning complex technical concepts Key References: GDPR for Startups - Ben's practical guide to building privacy programs in high-growth companies Field Fisher Privacy Newsletter - Legal developments summary that Ben recommends for staying current Hard Fork Podcast - Ben's go-to for broad tech and AI developments Lovable - The AI coding platform Ben's been experimenting with to build his habit tracker (and recruit his girlfriend as user number one) If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! For more thought-provoking conversations at the intersection of law and technology, head to https://lawwhatsnext.substack.com/.

    39 min
  3. Architecting our Legal Future with Dan Hunter

    9 SEPT

    Architecting our Legal Future with Dan Hunter

    This week we sat down with Dan Hunter, Executive Dean of the Dickson Poon School of Law at King's College London and serial legal tech entrepreneur.  Dan's journey spans academia across three continents, four successful startups (including his current venture GraceView), and decades of research on the cognitive science of legal reasoning. As both an educator training the next generation of lawyers and an entrepreneur building AI-powered legal solutions, he offers a unique dual perspective on the transformation underway across knowledge work. Key Takeaways 1. The Learning Paradox: AI Makes Us Feel Smarter While Making Us Dumber Students using large language models consistently perform better on assignments and believe they're learning more - but when the AI is removed, they've retained virtually nothing. This creates a dangerous illusion of competence (sycophantic models propagate this!) that law schools and firms must address through new assessment methods and training approaches. 2. We're Heading Toward a "Barbell" Legal Profession Traditional pyramid law firm structures will collapse as AI automates much of the work. Dan believes the future involves senior lawyers managing client relationships at the top, AI agents handling routine tasks in the middle, and "legal engineers" swarming around validating AI outputs and steering the models. 3. Entry-Level Legal Jobs Are Already Disappearing We discuss the recent Stanford research "Canaries in the Coal Mine? Six Facts about the Recent Employment Effects of Artificial Intelligence" by Erik Brynjolfsson, Bharat Chandar, and Ruyu Chen, Stanford Digital Economy Lab (2025) - The landmark study using ADP payroll data showing 13% employment decline for young workers in AI-exposed occupations. Interested in more? If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe to the show, comment, and share! For more thought-provoking content at the intersection of law and technology, head to our Law://WhatsNext home for: Focused conversations with leading practitioners, technologists, and educators Deep dives into the intersection of law, technology, and organisational behaviour Practical analysis and visualisation of how AI is augmenting our potential

    48 min
  4. Copyright, Competition, and Content Authenticity in the Age of AI with Dana Rao

    2 SEPT

    Copyright, Competition, and Content Authenticity in the Age of AI with Dana Rao

    We have fun sitting down with Dana Rao (the former General Counsel and Chief Trust Officer at Adobe) - where we cover the implications of AI progress on:  regulatory frameworks and geopolitics;  copyright law;  deepfakes - including content proliferation and authenticity;  fair use and Dana’s take on the current class action lawsuits in the US; and  Dana’s proposals for a new impressionistic right for creators to stave off the economic harms of their work being imitated.  The conversation provided us with a fascinating insight into life at Adobe at the moment the performance of these generative models really began to take-off, and it was clear to us that Dana and his team played a pivotal role in shaping not only what kind of products Adobe went on to develop but how they would be distributed and consumed by their users! This episode draws on Dana's extensive experience at the intersection of technology, law and policy. Here are the key references and cases we discussed: Legal Cases: Andy Warhol Foundation for Visual Arts, Inc. v. Goldsmith, 598 U.S. 508 (2023) -  The Supreme Court case that Dana argues will have an influence in the outcome of AI fair use battles (which are focussed on economic competition between uses) Thomson Reuters Enterprise Centre GmbH v. Ross Intelligence Inc., No. - 1:20-CV-613-SB (D. Del. Feb. 11, 2025) - The "Westlaw case" Dana mentioned where the judge initially ruled for the AI company but changed his mind after better understanding the technology Dana's Policy Work: Senate Judiciary Committee Testimony (July 12, 2023) - Dana's appearance before the Senate Subcommittee on Intellectual Property hearing titled "Artificial Intelligence and Intellectual Property – Part II: Copyright" Adobe's Proposed Anti-Impersonation Law - Dana's legislative proposal for federal protection against AI-powered style imitation Content Authenticity Standards: Content Authenticity Initiative (CAI) - Adobe-founded initiative with over 5,000 members working to establish content provenance standards Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity (C2PA) - The formal standards organization co-founded by Adobe, Microsoft, Intel, Arm, BBC, and Truepic under the Linux Foundation C2PA Implementation in Google Pixel Phones - Recent adoption of content authenticity standards in consumer devices If you found this episode of Law://WhatsNext interesting, please rate, subscribe, comment, and share!

    57 min
  5. GPT5 - Pt 2 with Sigge Labor (CTO) and Jacob Johnsson (Legal Eng) of Legora

    14 AUG

    GPT5 - Pt 2 with Sigge Labor (CTO) and Jacob Johnsson (Legal Eng) of Legora

    Rapid dispatch: we pulled in Sigge Labor (CTO) and Jacob Johnsson (Legal Engineer) from Legora - one of the fastest-growing AI companies in the world (and one of the few with early access to GPT-5) for a chat about OpenAI's recent model release. They share what it’s already unlocking for legal reasoning, why their “battle evals” put GPT-5 ahead 80%+ of the time across a host of legal tasks, and how its new steerability could reshape the way lawyers (and the tools they use) interact with the model (including through Legora). This is part two and concludes our GPT-5 launch mini-series - snappy, unpolished, and recorded while the paint’s still wet. If you like these hot-off-the-press deep dives, tell us (and more importantly… tell the algorithm by: rating, reviewing, and telling your friends).

    17 min
  6. GPT5 - Pt 1 with Jake Jones (CPO & Co-Founder, Flank)

    12 AUG

    GPT5 - Pt 1 with Jake Jones (CPO & Co-Founder, Flank)

    Emergency drop: we grabbed Jake Jones (CPO & Co-Founder, Flank) for a quick-fire reaction to OpenAI’s ChatGPT-5 launch. We cover his day-one impressions, what it means for legal products (including Flank), and the downstream implications for how legal work gets done. A short detour from our usual programming—did you enjoy this rapid-response format? If yes, please like, rate, and share to help Law://WhatsNext reach more people.

    23 min
  7. The Future Lawyer

    29 JUL

    The Future Lawyer

    In this compelling episode of Law://WhatsNext, hosts Tom & Alex dive into the transformative shifts underway in legal education and junior lawyer development. Joined by three visionary voices - Lucie Allen (Managing Director, Barbri), Rob Elvin (Partner, Squire Patton Boggs), and Sophie Correia (Trainee Solicitor, TravelPerk) - the discussion explores provocative ideas reshaping what it means to be a lawyer. Do Lawyers Even Need to Know the Law?Sophie Correia challenges the traditional emphasis on memorisation and technical rules in legal education. Reflecting on her real-world experiences at a tech scale-up, Sophie argues that success hinges more on human skills such as communication, empathy, and trust-building, rather than recalling obscure statutes. The Flawed Incentives of Legal TrainingRob Elvin sheds light on systemic issues stemming from the billable hour model, which prioritises short-term profitability over effective mentoring. He advocates for a groundbreaking solution: linking career progression directly to the quality of trainee supervision, potentially transforming mentorship from a luxury into an essential career catalyst. The AI DisconnectLucie Allen identifies a critical gap in legal education - the absence of meaningful engagement with AI and technology. Despite these tools reshaping the profession, current frameworks like the SQE neglect to equip trainees adequately for technological realities, posing a substantial risk to their future readiness. Three Ideas to Transform Legal Education: Continuous Learning as the New Norm: Education doesn't stop at qualification. Lucie emphasises the necessity of lifelong learning, driven by relentless curiosity and adaptation to change. Human Skills Set Lawyers Apart: Sophie highlights the enduring value of human-centric capabilities—understanding people, navigating complexity, and ethical reasoning—as indispensable traits lawyers must cultivate. Systemic Change through Collective Responsibility: Rob, Lucie, and Sophie underline the importance of personal agency and collaborative effort in driving substantial reform across education, training, and regulatory frameworks. A Hopeful Path ForwardUltimately, the podcast champions a future in which tomorrow’s lawyers blend ethical judgment, technological proficiency, and interpersonal insight, prompting listeners to reconsider not whether lawyers need to know the law, but rather what precisely they need to know—and how to prepare them best for the evolving landscape. Join us for an inspiring conversation that challenges conventional wisdom and points toward an empowered, adaptable, and human-centred future for the legal profession.

    49 min
  8. Quarterly Legal Tech Trends with Peter Duffy (Q2, 2025)

    18 JUL

    Quarterly Legal Tech Trends with Peter Duffy (Q2, 2025)

    In this quarterly deep-dive, we reconnect with Peter Duffy, the brilliant mind behind the Legal Tech Trends newsletter, for our regular temperature check on what's actually happening in the legal technology landscape.  Peter's ability to cut through the hype and identify real trends, combined with his practical experience helping organisations actually adopt AI, makes this a masterclass in separating signal from noise. Whether you're trying to understand why adoption is lagging despite the excitement, wondering about the strategic implications of billion-dollar acquisitions, or simply want to understand what Silicon Valley's sudden fascination with legal really means, this conversation hopefully delivers some insight. The episode kicks off with a sobering look at AI adoption across the legal profession, and the numbers might surprise you. Peter walks us through recent surveys from Bain and BCG that paint a picture quite different from the hype we're all hearing about at conferences/or on LinkedIn. The acquisition and partnership landscape is absolutely wild right now, and we break down the strategic implications of: Clio's $1 billion acquisition of vLex Eudia's acquisition of the Irish ALSP Johnson Hanna Harvey's strategic alliance with LexisNexis We end discussing some personal topics of interest, including: Y Combinator's explicit call-out for startups to build "full stack AI companies" – using law firms as their prime example; The Builders Playbook: 2025 State of AI Report; and the implications of the recent order in the New York Times v. OpenAI case If you found this episode interesting, please do like, subscribe, comment, and share! It helps the show rank and reach more people..  Best, Alex & Tom

    37 min
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How are leading practitioners leveraging emerging technologies and ways of working to pursue their passion and objectives, and as a by product what are the implications for the future of legal practice? Let’s explore this together. What to expect: - Focused conversations with leading practitioners; technologists and educators - Deep dives into the intersection of law, technology, and organisational behaviour - Practical analysis and visualisation of how AI is augmenting our potential - Insights from adjacent industries that might inform our own

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  • Creator
    Tom Rice and Alex Herrity
  • Years Active
    2K
  • Episodes
    20
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Tom Rice and Alex Herrity
  • Show Website
    Law://WhatsNext

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