Greg Laurie: Daily Devotions

Greg Laurie

If you want to be successful in the Christian life, you must have a mind full of God’s Word. Refresh your mind with it daily, right here. Each day, you'll receive a verse and commentary from Pastor Greg Laurie, who offers biblical insight through humor, personal stories, and cultural commentary. Start listening and hear what God has to say to you.  *The audio production of this podcast utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie.

  1. 5 HR AGO

    Are You Ready? | John 3:3

    “Jesus replied, ‘I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.’” (John 3:3 NLT)   Heaven is a prepared place for prepared people. If you’re going to take a trip, you must book a flight. You must secure a ticket. You can’t just walk into an airport and board a plane. In the same way, if you want to go to Heaven, you must secure a ticket. You may ask, “How much will it cost?” The answer is, you couldn’t afford it. But the good news is that Jesus Christ came to this earth, died on a cross for your sin, and rose again from the dead. In doing so, He, in effect, purchased your ticket for eternal life. There are no other flights or means of transportation that can get you there. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me” (John 14:6 NLT). He also said, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God” (John 3:3 NLT). Some people claim that all spiritual paths lead to God and Heaven—or at least some version of Heaven. They argue that what you believe isn’t necessarily important, as long as you’re sincere in your beliefs. But that thinking is dangerously wrong. God sent His Son for the express purpose of providing the only path to eternal life. No other beliefs will take you to Heaven. If you want to receive the ticket for eternal life that Jesus purchased for you, here’s what you need to do. Say, “Lord, I accept the gift that You have offered to me. I turn from my sin, and I put my faith in You.” Have you done that? Some people see it as an end-of-life matter. They reason that they can live their lives however they want and then, as the end approaches, settle their spiritual accounts and make the necessary decisions. There are several problems with that strategy, but the most problematic is that none of us knows when life is going to end. James 4:14 says, “Yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes” (ESV). This is a decision to be made sooner rather than later. If the Lord gives you many years of life, you’ll live them for His glory and enjoy His blessings. If He doesn’t give you many years of life, you’ll experience His glory up close and personal. The point is, either way you’re ready. This is not a decision to put off. If you’ve already accepted Christ as Savior and Lord and know that you’re going to Heaven, help others understand the urgency of making the same decision. Give your friends, loved ones, coworkers, neighbors, and acquaintances the chance to know that they, too, will go to Heaven when they die.   Reflection question: How do you know that you will go to Heaven when you die? Discuss Today's Devo in Harvest Discipleship! — The audio production of the podcast "Daily Devotions from Greg Laurie" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  2. 1 DAY AGO

    Things to Do in Heaven | 1 Corinthians 2:9

    “That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, ‘No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him.’” (1 Corinthians 2:9 NLT)   If you get your theology from popular culture, you might imagine Heaven as a place where people sit on clouds and strum harps for eternity. But the truth is much more exciting. The Bible offers a glimpse of a few of the things we’ll do in Heaven. The first is worship. In describing his vision of Heaven, the apostle John wrote, “I saw before me what seemed to be a glass sea mixed with fire. And on it stood all the people who had been victorious over the beast and his statue and the number representing his name. They were all holding harps that God had given them. And they were singing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb: ‘Great and marvelous are your works, O Lord God, the Almighty. Just and true are your ways, O King of the nations’” (Revelation 15:2–3 NLT). We’ll be doing much more than singing a hymn. We’ll be fulfilling the purpose for which we were created: to bring honor and glory to God. We’ll be doing it in His presence, with countless other believers, all filled with joy and awe at the privilege. We’ll sing in perfect harmony—a sound of unimaginable beauty. We also will be busy doing our Father’s business in Heaven. The Bible doesn’t offer a lot of details, but John wrote of those he saw in Heaven, “They stand in front of God’s throne and serve him day and night in his Temple” (Revelation 7:15 NLT). Is it possible that in Heaven we’ll finish tasks that were left uncompleted on earth? Or fulfill dreams that were shattered on earth? Who’s to say that God won’t allow us to accomplish our meaningful earthly goals in Heaven? After all, death for the believer is not the end of life but a continuation of it in another place. We’ll also eat in Heaven. John wrote, “Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb” (Revelation 19:9 NLT). Imagine the food that’s served in Heaven. And then imagine enjoying it for eternity. But the main event of Heaven will be the Lord Himself. Jesus said, “When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am” (John 14:3 NLT). The apostle Paul said, “I long to go and be with Christ, which would be far better for me” (Philippians 1:23 NLT). D. L. Moody wrote, “It will not be the jasper walls and the pearly gates that will make heaven attractive. It is our being with God.” But these are just glimpses. There’s no way our finite minds can conceive of all that we will do in Heaven. As Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 2:9, “That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, ‘No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him’” (NLT).   Reflection question: What do you look forward to doing in Heaven? Discuss Today's Devo in Harvest Discipleship! — The audio production of the podcast "Daily Devotions from Greg Laurie" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  3. 2 DAYS AGO

    Recognizing One Another in Heaven | 1 Corinthians 13:12

    “Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.” (1 Corinthians 13:12 NLT)   Will we recognize one another in Heaven? The short answer is yes, absolutely. Why would we know less in Heaven than we know on earth? In Heaven, we are perfected. We are glorified. Look at the apostle Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 13:12: “Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely” (NLT). In Heaven, there will be no more mysteries. No more questions. Everything will be resolved. Everything will be known. You will still love your family and friends. In fact, you will love them with a stronger, purer, and sweeter love. Death may break our bonds on earth, but God restores them in Heaven. We don’t change identities in Heaven. We’ll be the same people there that we are on earth. I’ll still be me. You’ll still be you. But we’ll be perfected versions of ourselves. Without the flaws. Without the shortcomings. Without the sinful tendencies. We’ll be glorified in the presence of God. And we’ll know all things that Scripture says. Matthew 17 records the Transfiguration of Jesus. He took Peter, James, and John to a high mountain, where they saw Him in His glory. Verse 3 says, “Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared and began talking with Jesus” (NLT). But how did anyone know that it was Moses and Elijah? Those men lived centuries before the events of the New Testament. Do you think Moses was holding two commandment tablets and saying, “Hi, I’m Moses. Recognize these?” Do you think Elijah was calling down fire from Heaven so that he’d be more recognizable? Do you think they were wearing name tags? “Hi! My name is Moses.” I don’t think so. The point is that even after being called back from glory momentarily to appear with Christ, Moses and Elijah were recognizable. Just as we will be recognizable when we get to Heaven. And it won’t be just your appearance that’s familiar. You’ll have the same thoughts, feelings, and desires that you had on earth. But they’ll all be perfected. You will be the purest version of you in Heaven. So, the people who love you will love you even more. When Jesus appeared to His frightened disciples after His resurrection, He said, “Why are you frightened? . . . Why are your hearts filled with doubt? Look at my hands. Look at my feet. You can see that it’s really me. Touch me and make sure that I am not a ghost, because ghosts don’t have bodies, as you see that I do” (Luke 24:38–39 NLT). In other words, “You know who I am.” One of the countless joys of Heaven will be reuniting with our Christian loved ones. One of the challenges of earth is making sure that our loved ones will be in Heaven.   Reflection question: Who are you eager to reunite with in Heaven? Discuss Today's Devo in Harvest Discipleship! — The audio production of the podcast "Daily Devotions from Greg Laurie" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  4. 3 DAYS AGO

    Heavenly Bodies | 1 Corinthians 15:43–44

    “Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.” (1 Corinthians 15:43–44 NLT)   When you get to Heaven, God will give you a brand-new body. But the blueprint for your glorified body is in the body you now possess. In other words, there will be a connection between the you of earth and the you of Heaven. The apostle Paul wrote, “Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies” (1 Corinthians 15:43–44 NLT). That means our new bodies will, in some ways, be the same as our old bodies, but at the same time, they will be different. Without question, they will be radically improved. No more physical disabilities. No signs of age. No sinful tendencies. Joni Eareckson Tada, who was left a quadriplegic after a diving accident, wrote a book called Heaven: Your Real Home. In it, she talked about the new bodies we will receive. “No more bulging middles or balding tops. No varicose veins or crow’s feet. No more cellulite or support hose. Forget the thunder thighs and the highway hips. Just a quick leapfrog over the tombstone and it is a body you have always dreamed of. Fit and trim. Smooth and sleek.” Our new resurrection bodies will resemble the resurrection body of Jesus Christ. Jesus appeared to His disciples in the flesh after He rose from the dead. He ate. He invited Thomas to touch the wounds from His crucifixion. Yet He could appear in a room without using the door. And He ascended to glory. The Bible doesn’t tell us whether we’ll be able to do the same things. But it does say, “Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is” (1 John 3:2 NLT). That’s an exciting prospect. And Paul wrote, “For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life” (2 Corinthians 5:1–4 NLT). In other words, our heavenly body will be familiar, yet amazingly different from our current body.   Reflection question: What do you look forward to most about your heavenly body? Discuss Today's Devo in Harvest Discipleship! — The audio production of the podcast "Daily Devotions from Greg Laurie" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  5. 4 DAYS AGO

    Heavenly Witnesses | Hebrews 12:1

    “Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us.” (Hebrews 12:1 NLT)   One question people ask when a loved one dies is whether the person will still be aware of what’s happening on earth. The Bible suggests that the answer is yes, although not in the ways some people believe. Some grieving people cling to the belief that their departed loved ones watch over them, guide them, and even communicate with them. But that’s not what the Bible tells us. What the Bible does suggest is that people in Heaven are aware of loved ones who aren’t saved. In Luke 16, Jesus tells the story of a poor man named Lazarus and a rich man. Both men died. Lazarus went to a place of comfort where he sat beside Abraham at a heavenly banquet. The rich man went to a place of torment. The rich man was fully aware of the people he had left behind. He asked Abraham to send the righteous Lazarus on a mission to them. “Then the rich man said, ‘Please, Father Abraham, at least send him to my father’s home. For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them so they don’t end up in this place of torment’” (verses 27–28 NLT). The Bible also suggests that when people on earth receive Jesus as Savior and Lord, it becomes public knowledge in Heaven. In Luke 15, Jesus tells a parable about a lost sheep and a parable about a lost coin. When that which was lost is found—that is, when those who were lost come to Christ—there is great rejoicing. Jesus said, “In the same way, there is more joy in heaven over one lost sinner who repents and returns to God than over ninety-nine others who are righteous and haven’t strayed away!” (verse 7 NLT). He also said, “In the same way, there is joy in the presence of God’s angels when even one sinner repents” (verse 10 NLT). The Bible suggests that people in Heaven may be aware of the time and place of earthly events. Revelation 6 talks about a group of believers who are martyred for their faith. “They shouted to the Lord and said, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you judge the people who belong to this world and avenge our blood for what they have done to us?’” (verse 10 NLT). The martyrs know that they were killed for following Christ on earth. They’re aware of the passing of time. And in verse 11, they’re aware that other people on earth will join them. Finally, Hebrews 12:1 suggests that people in Heaven are cheering us on. “Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us” (NLT). Your Christian loved ones have a vested interest in your spiritual well-being; death will not change that.   Reflection question: What do you want your loved ones in Heaven to see? Discuss Today's Devo in Harvest Discipleship! — The audio production of the podcast "Daily Devotions from Greg Laurie" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  6. 5 DAYS AGO

    Heaven Is Real | Ecclesiastes 3:11

    “Yet God has made everything beautiful for its own time. He has planted eternity in the human heart, but even so, people cannot see the whole scope of God’s work from beginning to end.” (Ecclesiastes 3:11 NLT)   Manx shearwaters are seabirds that nest off the coast of Wales. To study the birds’ homing instincts, scientists tagged and transported several Manx shearwaters to various points around the globe. They released the birds to see if they could make their way back to the coast of Wales in just twelve days. Each one did. One bird, which was released in Boston, traveled 250 miles a day from a place it had never been before to get back home. So, the next time someone calls you a birdbrain, take it as a compliment. God has placed a homing instinct in us as well. Call it a homesickness for Heaven. We long for a place we’ve never been before. That’s how we’re wired. The author of Ecclesiastes said that God “has planted eternity in the human heart” (3:11 NLT). In our next set of devotions, we’re going to explore what the Bible says about Heaven, the beacon for our homing instinct. Some people tend to go mystical when they talk about the afterlife. They describe Heaven as a state of mind rather than an actual place. The Bible, on the other hand, describes Heaven as a real place. Jesus told His followers, “There is more than enough room in my Father’s home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?” (John 14:2 NLT). The author of Hebrews described Heaven as a city. “But they were looking for a better place, a heavenly homeland. That is why God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them” (Hebrews 11:16 NLT). Jesus identified Heaven as the dwelling place of God when He began the Lord’s Prayer with the words “Our Father in heaven” (Matthew 6:9 NLT). Luke identified it as the dwelling place of angels. “When the angels had returned to heaven, the shepherds said to each other, ‘Let’s go to Bethlehem! Let’s see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about’” (Luke 2:15 NLT). Hebrews 12:23 identifies Heaven as the dwelling place of believers who have died. “You have come to the assembly of God’s firstborn children, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God himself, who is the judge over all things. You have come to the spirits of the righteous ones in heaven who have now been made perfect” (NLT). Our brief time on earth is a pale imitation—a sneak preview—of what awaits us in Heaven. C. S. Lewis wrote, “All the things that have ever deeply possessed your soul have been hints of heaven—tantalising glimpses, promises never quite fulfilled, echoes that died away just as they caught your ear.” Lewis also wrote , “If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is I was made for another world…Earthly pleasures were never meant to satisfy but to arouse, to suggest, the real thing.” Heaven is the real thing that we long for.   Reflection question: How can you tell that you have eternity planted in your heart? Discuss Today's Devo in Harvest Discipleship! — The audio production of the podcast "Daily Devotions from Greg Laurie" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  7. 4 OCT

    The Holy Spirit Empowers Us | Acts 1:8

    “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (Acts 1:8 NLT)   The Holy Spirit dwells within every believer. He bears witness with us that we are children of God. He seals us. Jesus’ disciples experienced His indwelling. When Jesus appeared to His followers after His resurrection, “He breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit’” (John 20:22 NLT). So, when Jesus spoke to them again in Acts 1:8, He wasn’t talking about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. He was talking about something different. The Greek word dunamis, which is translated as power in Acts 1:8, has an interesting history. In 1867, a chemist and inventor named Alfred Nobel discovered a power greater than anything the world had known before. It was an explosive element that he created in a laboratory. Looking for a name for his invention, Nobel consulted a friend who was a Greek scholar. By changing a few letters in dunamis, the Greek word for explosive power, Nobel came up with the word dynamite. That’s the idea that Jesus conveyed in Acts 1:8. He was saying to His disciples, “You will receive explosive dynamite power when the Spirit has come upon you.” The power to be a witness. The power to share your faith. The power to speak up and be counted. The power to turn your world upside down. The power of the Holy Spirit transformed the lives of first-century believers. Prior to receiving it, the apostle Peter couldn’t stand up for his faith when strangers asked him if he was a follower of Jesus. After he received it, Peter boldly preached the gospel to a crowd of thousands. Prior to receiving the Holy Spirit’s power, the apostle Paul was an enemy of the Christian faith. After receiving it, he became one of its greatest champions. The same power is available to us today. The power to be a witness. The power to boldly approach someone you don’t know and tell them about Jesus Christ. The power to lovingly confront someone about their sin. The power to initiate a life-changing conversation. The power to tell people about what Jesus has done for you. My question to you is this: Do you have this power in your life right now? Has your prayer life become dry and one-dimensional? Do you feel less than engaged with God’s Word? Do you feel as though there’s something lacking in your spiritual walk? Are you stricken with fear at the very idea of sharing your faith? If so, then you, my friend, are a candidate for the empowering of the Holy Spirit. All you have to do is pray. Ask God to empower you with His Spirit. Ask Him to help you feel the Spirit’s presence in your life, guiding and encouraging you to grow and share your faith in ways that transform the world around you.   Reflection question: What would the “dynamite power” of the Holy Spirit look like in your life? Discuss Today's Devo in Harvest Discipleship! — The audio production of the podcast "Daily Devotions from Greg Laurie" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  8. 3 OCT

    The Holy Spirit Connects Us to God’s Word | John 14:26

    “But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.” (John 14:26 NLT)   Have you ever experienced the Holy Spirit’s biblical intervention? Maybe you were struggling in a certain area of your life. Or you were facing a difficult temptation. Or you were unsure of what to do in a situation. Then suddenly, a passage of Scripture jumped into your mind—one that spoke clearly to your circumstances. And—here’s the amazing part—one that you don’t remember memorizing. It may have been a passage you heard in a sermon a few months earlier or one that you talked about in a Bible study ten years ago. If, in that moment, you wondered where that passage came from, Jesus offers the answer in John 14:26: “But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you” (NLT). The Holy Spirit reminds you what you need to know when you need to know it. That work extends to other areas as well. The apostle Peter wrote, “And if someone asks about your hope as a believer, always be ready to explain it” (1 Peter 3:15 NLT). Sometimes that’s not possible. Sometimes people ask questions that you can’t answer immediately. Sometimes you draw a blank when you’re asked to explain some aspect of your faith. That’s when the Holy Spirit intervenes. Thoughts come to you. Answers that you didn’t know you had. You start sharing, and the words that come out are so good that you want to take notes on yourself. You say to yourself, “This is good stuff. Where did it come from?” It didn’t come from you. It came from the Holy Spirit. He’s reminding you of what you know. Of course, that doesn’t excuse you from the discipline of Bible study. You can’t just hold your Bible up and say, “I pray that all of these things will go into my brain right now.” You still must discipline yourself to read, study, and memorize Scripture. You must put in the work to know and understand what God’s Word says. If you do that, you can trust the Holy Spirit to remind you of what you know at crucial moments. That’s why, before you study Scripture, it’s important to pray for the Holy Spirit to illuminate what you read. Paul wrote, “That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, ‘No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him.’ But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets” (1 Corinthians 2:9–10 NLT). Once those secrets have been shown to you, they can be recalled again and again. The Holy Spirit will bring them to mind to strengthen and guide you when you need them.   Reflection question: In what area of Bible study do you need the Holy Spirit’s assistance? Discuss Today's Devo in Harvest Discipleship! — The audio production of the podcast "Daily Devotions from Greg Laurie" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min

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If you want to be successful in the Christian life, you must have a mind full of God’s Word. Refresh your mind with it daily, right here. Each day, you'll receive a verse and commentary from Pastor Greg Laurie, who offers biblical insight through humor, personal stories, and cultural commentary. Start listening and hear what God has to say to you.  *The audio production of this podcast utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie.

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