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Two by Two

The Ken

The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

  1. What killed India’s first fintech lenders?

    3 DAYS AGO • THE KEN PREMIUM ONLY

    What killed India’s first fintech lenders?

    India’s fintech-based NBFC lending sector offers many lessons. Three early pioneers—Capital Float (now Axio), Zestmoney, and Lendingkart—raised significant amounts of venture capital, built solid momentum, and achieved growth and penetration. They pivoted, explored multiple opportunities, and yet, ultimately had to sell out. In this episode of Two by Two, co-hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by guests Shivashish Chatterjee, co-founder of DMI Group, and Arundhati Ramanathan, The Ken’s deputy editor. Together, they discuss the business models of these lenders—including balance sheet lending and the rise of “buy now, pay later”—and what lessons can be learned for the future of India’s fintech lending ecosystem. This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com ( twobytwo@the-ken.com ). We’d love to hear from you. Additional reading Axio—a fintech dream comes to an end https://the-ken.com/kaching/axio-a-fintech-dream-comes-to-an-end/ ( https://the-ken.com/kaching/axio-a-fintech-dream-comes-to-an-end/ )

    1h 19m
  2. Firstclub wants to be the Costco of quick-commerce

    25 SEPT • THE KEN PREMIUM ONLY

    Firstclub wants to be the Costco of quick-commerce

    In this episode of Two by Two, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Ayyappan Rajagopal, founder and CEO of the quick-commerce platform Firstclub. A veteran of India’s e-commerce sector with leadership roles at Flipkart, Myntra, and Cleartrip, Ayyappan shares his vision for a differentiated experience in the crowded quick-commerce market. While existing platforms are highly transactional and compete on speed and discounts, Firstclub aims to be a curated, discovery-led platform offering high-quality products. For brands, Firstclub positions itself not just as a retailer, but as an extended distributor and brand-building partner. It works closely with brands, associating only with those whose stature and target consumers align with its curated vision. For consumers, Firstclub is drawing inspiration from the Costco model by planning a membership-based system to build a loyal customer base and offer superior products at better value. Delve into this conversation to understand how Firstclub is carving out its unique space in the quick-commerce landscape. ***** Additional reading 1,500 stories about India’s complex relationships with Swiggy Instamart, Blinkit, Zepto, and Bigbasket ( https://the-ken.com/story/1500-stories-about-indias-complex-relationships-with-swiggy-instamart-blinkit-zepto-and-bigbasket/ )Are we seeing the unbundling of quick commerce? ( https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/are-we-seeing-the-unbundling-of-quick-commerce/ )

    1h 8m
  3. What happens when Indian consumers discover what they are consuming?

    18 SEPT • THE KEN PREMIUM ONLY

    What happens when Indian consumers discover what they are consuming?

    In this episode, co-hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar sit down with Munaf Kapadia (VP of growth and marketing, Natfirst), and Arjun Anjaria (founder, Unbox Health) to discuss the challenge posed by misleading food labels in India and the resulting deterioration in consumer trust. Unbox Health uses independent lab testing to verify product claims, creating an objective D to A+ rating scale based on label accuracy, toxicity, and nutritional profile. While Natfirst, and its consumer app Truthin, interpret the data already on product labels—analysing ingredients, additives, and processing levels—to provide a simple 1 to 5 star rating with the goal of empowering “conscious consumers” who want to know what’s in their food. Arjun and Munaf, with several years of combined expertise in this domain, help us understand the rocky terrain of consumer labeling in India by breaking down the current regulatory landscape, the ineffectiveness of existing penalties for mislabeling, and much more. This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com ( twobytwo@the-ken.com ). We’d love to hear from you.

    1h 34m
  4. Uber India has run the race and stayed the course. Can it change the game?

    11 SEPT • THE KEN PREMIUM ONLY

    Uber India has run the race and stayed the course. Can it change the game?

    How does the India head of a global, category-creating giant view its future in arguably its most complex market? In this candid episode of Two by Two, we sit down with Prabhjeet Singh, the president of Uber India and South Asia, to deconstruct the company’s biggest strategic challenges and ambitions in the country. Prabhjeet breaks down Uber’s “barbell strategy”—a delicate balance of serving both premium customers with services like Uber Black and cost-conscious users with affordable options. We dive deep into the evolving competitive landscape, moving beyond the traditional Uber vs. Ola duopoly to discuss the disruption from players like Rapido and Namma Yatri, who are challenging the commission-based business model. Prabhjeet addresses how Uber navigates this complex environment, including the tricky regulatory and taxation issues that create a non-level playing field. The conversation expands to Uber’s grander vision as a multi-modal platform, not just a ride-hailing app. Prabhjeet reveals a surprising insight: Uber’s courier service is now one of its fastest-growing verticals in India, born from a “hack” during the pandemic. We also explore innovative new revenue streams, from the recently launched Uber Teens for secure rides to a fascinating new feature allowing driver-partners to earn extra income by completing AI-based micro-tasks during their downtime. Finally, we touch upon the long-term future, discussing the viability of self-driving cars on Indian roads and the constant push-and-pull of regulatory innovation. This is a rare, unfiltered look into the operational and strategic engine of Uber India as it navigates growth, competition, and its own evolution. This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com ( twobytwo@the-ken.com ).

    1h 23m
  5. What is the point of an undergraduate college education today?

    4 SEPT

    What is the point of an undergraduate college education today?

    While India produces millions of graduates every year, the stark reality is that many remain underemployed, and some are increasingly turning unemployable. Contrary to popular belief, this is not merely a problem facing social science or non-STEM students. Data from the past decade shows that 40% to 50% of engineering graduates from Indian universities have not been placed in jobs, underlining the worrying gap between academic education and industry requirements. This is just one of the challenges India’s youth face in transitioning from a fairly uniform school system to career-oriented education.  Aggravating this issue is the critical gap in career awareness among Indian students. While the modern economy offers over 20,000 career paths, 93% of students are familiar with only seven traditional roles, including doctor, engineer, lawyer, or teacher.  This mismatch between what traditional degrees offer and modern job-market demands is the focus of this animated episode of Two by Two, where co-hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by two experts in the field of education—Maheshwer Peri, founder and CEO of Careers360, and Abhishek Ghosh, clinical researcher and career counsellor at No Herd Mentality. This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.  If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com. *****Additional reading: India’s demographic dividend as a time bomb Abhishek Ghosh’s blog: No Herd Mentality

    1h 28m
  6. Whatsapp's double life

    28 AUG

    Whatsapp's double life

    Whatsapp is the fastest and the best way to reach hundreds of millions of Indians, which makes it a dream distribution channel for everybody. But its owner Meta maintains an iron grip on its APIs, pricing, and policies, making it a risky place to build. This is Whatsapp’s double life.  This deadlock is why Whatsapp is universally used but not universally loved by India’s users. It’s why startups have an opportunity in front of them, but one shrouded in doubt.  In this episode, we have two wonderful founders who are building companies on top of Whatsapp and have their own reasons to try to break this deadlock. Swapnika Nag is co-founder and CEO of Periskope, an AI platform supercharging sales and operations on Whatsapp, and Dharmesh Ba is founder of October Chat, which builds AI agents for Whatsapp. With co-hosts, Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, they unravel the risks and rewards of building on one of the world’s most popular messaging apps.   This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.  If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com. Additional reading Dharmesh Ba’s substack: https://newsletter.theindianotes.com/

    1h 22m
  7. Which quadrant does India want UPI in?

    21 AUG

    Which quadrant does India want UPI in?

    Launched in 2016, UPI now dominates retail digital payments in India, accounting for over 80% of the volume and processing a massive 300 million transactions every month. What began as a government-funded project is now a public utility.  Unlike private companies like Visa or Mastercard, government-funded entities like the Internet or the World Wide Web are not typically judged in terms of profitability. Their vast economic and innovative benefits far outweigh their costs. Viewing UPI through a profit-making lens is simply the wrong approach.  In this episode of Two by Two, hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are joined by two vocal experts—Alok Prasanna, co-founder of Vidhi Legal, and Ateesh Tankha, CEO and co-founder of Alsowise Content Solutions—to dissect the sustainability and future of UPI in India.  This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.  If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com. *****Additional readingAlok’s Linkedin postUPI can be forever or free—not bothUPI wants to go international, but it isn't built for it (yet)The mystery of usury

    1h 25m
  8. Will Indians pay for pest control as a service?

    14 AUG

    Will Indians pay for pest control as a service?

    In this episode of Two by Two, we discuss pest control.  It’s an old industry with little to no innovation, but there’s reason to take notice. Currently valued at $1.8 billion, the market is projected to grow to $3.1 billion by 2033, clocking a steady annual growth rate of 15%. Private equity wants in. Two service providers have been acquired by UK-based Rentokil. One is Pest Control India (PCI), which was once the market leader. The other is Hicare, which was the second-largest player. Hicare’s journey is particularly interesting. It was launched by Godrej in 2004 with the help of Arumugham Mahendran, whose mosquito-repellant business was acquired by Godrej in 1994. Then, it was sold to ISS, a Danish firm, in 2013. Later, it was acquired by a private equity fund called IVFA (now True North). True North held it for 10 years before selling it to Rentokil last year.  Meanwhile, Pecopp is another pest control company that is leaving a mark. Founded in 1970 in Mumbai, Pecopp is different from PCI in that it remains family-run, and has managed to go toe-to-toe with Rentokil. Pecopp is the only other Indian pest-control business that operates in multiple cities.  All of this is taking place in a market where 55–60% is unorganised, and only 40–45% of demand is met by professional services.  Hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan dig into these questions and explore the nooks and crannies of India’s pest control industry. Our guest, Siddharth Balwani, the director of Pecopp, breaks down his company’s strategy, the market dynamics, and future opportunities.  This episode of Two by Two was mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer.  If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and anyone else who might be interested. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

    1h 7m
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The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

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