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Two by Two

The Ken

The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

  1. Can NPCI's BHIM take on the giants it created?

    12 HR AGO • THE KEN PREMIUM ONLY

    Can NPCI's BHIM take on the giants it created?

    "Of course BHIM is giving crazy cashbacks. That's where I pay my bills." That's not a BHIM fan but a product head at a competing UPI app. After demonetisation hit in 2016, India desperately needed a way to go cashless overnight. UPI existed but barely anyone was using it. Banks were dragging their feet and private players were too small and too few. So, NPCI (National Payments Corporation of India) built an entire payments app in weeks and put the Prime Minister behind it. BHIM clocked 10 million downloads in just 10 days. But just as quietly, NPCI put it to sleep and the private players took the bait. Fast forward to today, PhonePe and Google Pay between them own over 80% of all UPI transactions. Two American-backed companies are winning on the very road NPCI laid, while the architect has 0.8% market share on its own railway. So BHIM is back. With MS Dhoni as brand ambassador, cashbacks flying left, right and centre and a stated goal of hitting 5% market share. But can a government app out-app the giants it created? And why is it back and why now? Rahel Philipose and Praveen Gopal Krishnan sit down with Arundhati Ramanathan ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/arundhati-ramanathan-3ba24810/ ), deputy editor at The Ken who wrote the original BHIM story in 2017, and Abhishek Madan ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/abhishekjmadan/ ), co-founder of Alt Inc and former VP of product at Paytm, to find out. Read more: - The unlikely story of BHIM, the upsetter of plans ( https://the-ken.com/story/unlikely-story-of-bhim/?searchTerm=bhim%20the%20upsetter%20of%20plans&utm_source=search&utm_medium=page ) by Arundhati Ramanathan (25 January 2017) - NPCI resurrects its own UPI payments app dreams with Bhim ( https://the-ken.com/kaching/npci-resurrects-its-own-upi-payments-app-dreams-with-bhim/?searchTerm=bhim%20the%20upsetter%20of%20plans&utm_source=search&utm_medium=page ) by Arundhati Ramanathan (19 March 2026)______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

    1hr 4min
  2. 19 years on, is IPL still too big to fail? Sharda Ugra answers

    2 APR • THE KEN PREMIUM ONLY

    19 years on, is IPL still too big to fail? Sharda Ugra answers

    "This is our Frankenstein. We made it. And now it's left the room." A cricketer said this about the IPL and our guest, Sharda Ugra, India's most respected cricket journalist with thirty years of covering the game, brought it to our studio. And honestly, we couldn't think of a better way to open this episode. Last week, RCB and Rajasthan Royals sold for nearly $3 billion combined. With private equity in the building, it looks like the IPL has never looked bigger, richer or more untouchable. But something is off. The broadcaster paid $6 billion for rights and is bleeding $2 billion. On the other hand, the media rights that fund 80% of every franchise's revenue are projected to flatline and the most perfect advertiser IPL ever had, real money gaming, just got banned. So we did what any sensible person would do and called Sharda. In what was honestly one of the most electric studio sessions we've had on Two by Two, Sharda brought 18 years of institutional memory while Praveen Gopal Krishnan brought the business lens and Rahel Philipose asked every question you'd want to ask if you had Sharda across from you for 90 minutes. The IPL cannot fail. But can it figure out how to succeed? That's what this episode is really about. Read more: - Sharda's 2008 India Today piece titled 'Changing the rules' ( https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/sport/story/20080211-changing-the-rules-735310-2008-01-31 ). - Sumit Chakraborty's piece in The Ken titled 'What private equity sees in IPL...' ( https://the-ken.com/the-collection/what-private-equity-sees-in-ipl/?searchTerm=What%20private%20equity%20sees%20in%20IPL%E2%80%A6&utm_source=search&utm_medium=page ). ______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

    1hr 10min
  3. Rapido broke the Uber-Ola duopoly. Can it now break the Swiggy-Zomato one?

    26 MAR • THE KEN PREMIUM ONLY

    Rapido broke the Uber-Ola duopoly. Can it now break the Swiggy-Zomato one?

    Last week, Rapido launched Ownly, its zero commission food delivery app and went straight for Swiggy and Zomato's throat. This is the same company that dismantled the Uber-Ola duopoly with just a simpler model, cheaper rides, and a very different idea of what India actually needs. Their weapon this time is zero commission. They're betting on restaurants that are fed up, customers who want cheaper food, and a rider fleet that's already in place. So we got Kunal Khattar ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/kkhattar/ ), the investor who backed Rapido from day one and made 88x on that bet to break down whether lightning can strike twice. We also have Gautam Balijepalli ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/balli/ ), who runs one of the largest cloud kitchen operations in India and tells us what it looks like from the restaurant side. Along with our guests, Rahel Philipose and Praveen Gopal Krishnan discuss, can Rapido steal a bite from Swiggy and Zomato? Or is food delivery a completely different beast? _________ This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mix and mastered by Rajiv CN. If you liked this episode, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com ( twobytwo@the-ken.com ).

    57 min
  4. The Middle East war will cost India. How much and for how long? Ft. Mohit Satyanand

    19 MAR • THE KEN PREMIUM ONLY

    The Middle East war will cost India. How much and for how long? Ft. Mohit Satyanand

    Last year, when Trump's tariffs blindsided the world, we called Mohit Satyanand ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/mohit-satyanand-baa2b820/ ). He made sense of the chaos before most people had even figured out what to panic about. This time, we didn't wait. A war broke out in the Middle East, the Strait of Hormuz closed, and within days India was rationing cooking gas, cancelling flights and watching the rupee slip. Everyone has an opinion, but Mohit has something rarer. He has his skin in the game. As an investor who has spent decades watching India's economy up close, his question isn't what happened. It is what it reveals about India's deepest, oldest vulnerabilities. He explains the oil dependency we've ignored for 50 years. How we have seven days of strategic reserves nobody talks about. The remittances that hold up millions of households. And the uncomfortable truth that none of this should have caught us off guard. In this episode of Two by Two, Mohit sits down with Rahel Philipose and Praveen Gopal Krishnan to answer not what is happening, but what it means for India and for how long. --------- This episode of Two by Two was produced by Uddantika Kashyap. If you liked this episode, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

    1hr 6min

  5. 12 MAR

    Healthify swallowed its disruptors. But can it digest them?

    Most businesses die quietly. They miss a wave, lose relevance and fade out. Healthify nearly got hit by two in quick succession. First, AI that could do what took the company years to build. Then, a drug which meant you didn't need the discipline anymore. So Rahel Philipose and Praveen Gopal Krishnan asked Tushar Vashisht, Healthify's co-founder and CEO, the uncomfortable question directly: if anyone can build an AI coach and a drug can kill your appetite, what exactly are you selling? This episode is really about three things most people don't know. One, why people who take Ozempic without a lifestyle program gain almost all the weight back within a year. Two, what actually happens to a platform business when AI replaces one entire side of it. And three, why Tushar believes his most dangerous competitor hasn't been founded yet. We were also joined by Professor R Srinivasan from IIM Bangalore, who had a very different read on whether Healthify's bet is genius or cope.______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

    1hr 3min
  6. Did Gen Z hand consumer brands a blueprint to beat the giants?

    5 MAR

    Did Gen Z hand consumer brands a blueprint to beat the giants?

    "They are not disloyal. They are unforgiving." Sector by sector, a new generation of brands is doing the same thing by ignoring millennials entirely and going straight for Gen Z. Zepto did it to Blinkit. Snabbit is doing it to Urban Company. The thesis is simple: Gen Z has no loyalty to the old guard, so steal them first and use them as a wedge to crack the rest of the market open. But is that actually true? And if you do win them, can you hold them? Our guest Adarsh Menon has put Fireside Ventures' money behind this question. His portfolio includes brands that have read this generation inside out. On the other hand Ajay Thandi built Sleepy Owl without a single marketer on the founding team and ended up with a brand Gen Z and millennials claim as their own. The most interesting thing they land on isn't about Gen Z at all. It's about aspiration and how it stopped pointing upward. This generation doesn't want to be the person above them. They want to be the person next to them. That one shift changes everything about how you build a brand. Turns out the most fickle generation might be the most loyal one you've ever had. If you deserve it. Further reading - Fireside Ventures — The Indian Consumer at 2030 _______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mix and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

    59 min
  7. What Peak XV's partner exodus says about VC economics

    26 FEB

    What Peak XV's partner exodus says about VC economics

    Quick question: Would you give someone your money for ten years if they promised you'd get back roughly what an FD would give you? And they'd also take 2% of your money every single year, no matter what happens, plus 20% of any profits at the end. You'd laugh them out of the room, right? Well, that's venture capital. Peak XV lost three of its partners. Ashish Agarwal who backed Groww, Ishan Mittal who invested in Razorpay and Tejasvi Sharma who bet on Cred. These guys crushed it and they still walked out over "disagreements on economics and payouts." That's when we realized: this isn't a Peak XV problem but a VC industry problem that nobody wants to admit. So we brought in Mayank Bansal, a hedge fund manager who pulled the actual numbers: Crisil data, Peak XV's fund performance, small cap index returns, FDs. All of it. Joining us is also Arundhati Ramanathan, deputy editor at The Ken, who's been tracking these partner exits closely. Mayank's take? "What is happening in the VC industry currently is they are charging the profit shares of that Medallion fund while returning less than index funds, which is blasphemous." Most Indian VC funds are charging 36% profit share to deliver 12% returns while a small cap index fund gave 13.35% over the same period which you can withdraw anytime. So why do the smartest investors in the world keep putting money into this? Why does two and twenty still exist? Fair warning, this episode is number-heavy. We've linked the reports in the show notes so you can follow along. But the punchline is simple: venture capital in India might just be an overpriced underperforming asset class nobody's willing to admit is broken. Listen to find out why the exits are just beginning.____ Additional resources:1. Accel India's fund returns (Newcomer, paywalled) 2. Crisil's AIF Benchmarks Report 3. Indian VCs’ boss wants them to take a pay cut by Arundhati Ramanathan 4. India's VCs are getting disrupted… by India's tax-payers by Praveen Gopal Krishnan 5. The invisible whale that capsized India’s leaky options boats- Two by Two episode 51____ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

    1hr 20min
  8. What a global investor really thinks about India's next decade

    19 FEB

    What a global investor really thinks about India's next decade

    If you are in your 20s or 30s in India right now, things probably feel a little weird. The headlines say the country is a rocket ship, but your reality might be hiring freezes and stagnant salaries. To understand why, we sat down with someone who actually moves the money. Since the 1990s, Rohit Chopra, portfolio manager/analyst at Lazard Asset Management, has managed billions of dollars across emerging markets: from Brazil to Korea to China and India. He doesn't look at the Indian market with pride or pessimism but with one question: is this the best place on Earth for his clients' money right now? In this episode of Two by Two, Rahel Philipose and Rohin Dharmakumar dig into Rohit’s playbook. They discuss how he identifies "the Holy Grail" of businesses, why capital has been leaving India recently, and which sectors will actually define the next decade.  If you have ever wanted to sit across from a global fund manager and get the uncomfortable truth about where India really stands, this is the conversation you’ve been waiting for.______ This episode was produced by Uddantika Kashyap and mixed and mastered by Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer. If you liked this episode, share it with your friends, family and colleagues. And if you have thoughts on the discussion, write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

    58 min
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The Two by Two podcast is a premium business podcast from The Ken that investigates, discusses and breaks down the most important business stories around you. Hosted from The Ken's newsroom by business journalists Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, Two by Two will feature guests and experts from across the industry and academia to talk about issues no one else is talking about.

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