Sinica Podcast SupChina

In this second half of our interview with Kishore Mahbubani, a former UN ambassador of Singapore, he talks to Kaiser about the perils of American exceptionalism, the poverty of strategic thinking in Washington, and the view of U.S.-China competition from the rest of the world. His latest book, Has China Won? The Chinese Challenge to American Primacy, is a bracing read, unsparing in its criticisms of Chinese and American strategic blunders, and its tough-love approach is sure to rankle. 

8:52: Comparing Chinese realities to American ideals

15:31: How the outcome of the U.S.-China geopolitical contest will be decided

24:49: Strategic thinking regarding the South China Sea

37:57: America’s relationships with its allies

Recommendations:

Kishore: Rise to Globalism: American Foreign Policy Since 1938, by Stephen E. Ambrose and Douglas G. Brinkley.

Kaiser: A new podcast series by Patrick Radden Keefe, called Wind of Change.

In the first part of this two-part conversation, Kishore Mahbubani, a former UN ambassador of Singapore, returns to Sinica to chat with Kaiser about his latest book, Has China Won? The Chinese Challenge to American Primacy. It’s a bracing read, unsparing in its criticisms of Chinese and American strategic blunders, and its tough-love approach is sure to rankle. Part 2 will run next week. 

12:46: Contrasting the geopolitical challenges posed by China and Russia

23:03: The core pillars of American strength

31:23: A financial “nuclear option” for China

45:12: The fusion of civilizations

Recommendations to follow in next week’s episode.  

No, not that Gordon Chang. The other one: the good one. Gordon H. Chang is a professor of American history at Stanford University, where he is also the Olive H. Palmer Professor in Humanities and the senior associate vice provost for undergraduate education. In this prelapsarian podcast, taped on December 19, Gordon chats with Kaiser about the rising tide of Sinophobia — presaging things to come once Trump really started fanning the flames during the present pandemic. 

12:15: American perceptions of China and Chinese people

20:54: A legacy of discrimination against Chinese scientists in the U.S.

31:43: The role of universities in pushing back against xenophobia

35:47: Espionage fears and restrictions against Chinese researchers

Recommendations:

Gordon: The Transpacific Experiment: How China and California Collaborate and Compete for Our Future, by Matt Sheehan. 

Kaiser: The Scientist and the Spy: A True Story of China, the FBI, and Industrial Espionage, by Mara Hvistendahl.

A congressional bill and a draft executive order threaten to prevent U.S. government agencies from using drones made in China or that contain Chinese components. Concerns over security issues may end successful programs by the Department of the Interior and other agencies using Chinese-made drones for a huge range of purposes. Brendan Schulman, vice president for public policy and legal affairs of leading Chinese drone maker DJI, joins Kaiser and Jeremy to discuss.

3:16: A history of DJI

16:04: Shenzhen and the consumer electronic supply chain

18:24: DJI under legal scrutiny in the U.S. and abroad 

29:01: The role of the U.S. Congress in pushing back against Chinese tech

39:18: Drone applications in the fight against COVID-19

Recommendations:

Jeremy: Fine Music Radio, a Cape Town–based radio station that plays jazz and classical music, and New Frame, a media company that covers news in Africa. 

Brendan: The book Eternal Life, by Dara Horn. 

Kaiser: Two pieces from The New Yorker: How does the coronavirus behave inside a patient?, by Siddhartha Mukherjee, and The contrarian coronavirus theory that informed the Trump administration, by Isaac Chotiner.

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Literature professor and cineaste Jiwei Xiao, who grew up in Wuhan and whose mother still lives there, published a piece in the New York Review of Books about watching the coronavirus pandemic unfold — first at a distance in Wuhan, then up close in the U.S., where she now resides. In this episode, Jiwei joins Kaiser and Jeremy to discuss her experiences. 

11:56: China’s initial response to the outbreak

16:18: Fang Fang’s comments on China’s response to COVID-19

25:09: Emerging literature on the pandemic

35:10: Occupying a space between nations and cultures

Recommendations:

Jiwei: A work of “China noir”: The Wild Goose Lake, by Diao Yinan. 

Jeremy: Keep Cool, by Zhang Yimou.

Kaiser: A long-form piece in the New York Times Magazine, I’m an E.R. doctor in New York. None of us will ever be the same, by Helen Ouyang. 

For our 10th anniversary show, Kaiser and Jeremy recorded live on Zoom, shared some reminiscences, reflected on how China and the podcast have changed in the years since they started the show, and took questions from listeners who tuned in. A video version of the podcast is available here. 

8:05: A bird’s-eye view of Western media coverage of China

26:52: The demise of area studies, and the rise of disciplines in China studies

36:59: How to keep up with current events in China

44:51: A discussion on xenophobia and nationalism in Chinese society

1:16:37: Can person-to-person diplomacy exist in an increasingly insular world

Recommendations: 

Jeremy: An interview with Stephen King by Terry Gross on Fresh Air, Stephen King is sorry you feel like you’re stuck in a Stephen King novel, and an article on SupChina, My family survived the lockdown in Wuhan. Now it’s my turn, in New York, by Zeyi Yang. 

Kaiser: Fearing for my mother in Wuhan, facing a new Sinophobia in the US, by Xiao Jiwei, and Shockwave, by Adam Tooze.