What if the future of the church isn’t found in choosing between old and new—but in learning how both can flourish together? In this episode, Loren is joined by Dwight Zscheile and Blair Pogue for a wide-ranging conversation about their book, Embracing the Mixed Ecology, and what it means to form Christian communities in a changing world. Drawing on their experience in congregational leadership, theological education, and diocesan innovation, Dwight and Blair make the case for a mixed ecology of church—where inherited congregations, new communities, fresh expressions, digital ministry, and lay-led initiatives work together to embody the gospel. Rather than dismissing institutions or chasing quick fixes, the conversation emphasizes discipleship, listening to neighbors, and adapting church forms without abandoning the substance of the faith. The episode also explores why activism alone cannot sustain Christian identity, how polarization distorts formation, and why the church must recover practices that shape people into a distinct way of life centered on Jesus. Topics Include What a “mixed ecology” of church actually means Why inherited churches still matter—and where they fall short Fresh expressions, microchurches, and lay-led ministry Discipleship vs. political or cultural substitutes for faith Listening as the starting point for mission Digital ministry as doorway, not replacement When and how churches may need to end faithfully The Rev. Dwight Zscheile, Ph.D. is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He is author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology: Inherited and New Forms of Christian Community Flourishing Together (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress, 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the Church in America (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans, 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012) and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025). A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), he has served congregations in Minnesota and Virginia. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world. The Rev. Canon Blair Pogue is the Canon for Innovation for the Episcopal Church in Minnesota. In that capacity she helps congregations all over the state go deeper in their practice of the Christian faith and rethink how they form disciples and engage the communities surrounding their church. She also runs learning communities for Episcopalians wanting to learn how to form Christian community with neighbors where they live, work, and play. Before joining Bishop Craig Loya’s staff she was the rector of St. Matthew’s Episcopal Church in St. Paul for 16 ½ years, and before that she served two churches in the Diocese of Virginia, with a special focus on Christian formation. She is a graduate of Luther Seminary (D.Min in Congregational Mission and Leadership), Yale Divinity School (M.Div), and Whitman College (B.A.). Mentioned Resources: 📖 Their Book: Embracing the Mixed Ecology 🌐 Dwight's Website: https://www.dwightzscheile.com/ 📧 Blair's Email: blair.p@episcopalmn.org 🎧 Episodes Referenced: William Harrison Connect with Future Christian: 📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/ 📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/ 📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/ 🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/ Supporting Sponsors: Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age. Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Dennis Sanders – Producer SEO / Keywords Dwight Zscheile, Blair Pogue, Embracing the Mixed Ecology, mixed ecology church, fresh expressions, inherited church, church innovation, post-Christian ministry, discipleship formation, lay-led ministry, digital church, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
