“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

HR Heretics

After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?     Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors. This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector. Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com

  1. The Post-Acquisition Power Reckoning

    HACE 5 DÍAS

    The Post-Acquisition Power Reckoning

    For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, former co-founder and executive coach Adam Weber examines power dynamics and identity transformation following Amplify’s acquisition by 15Five, revealing insights on leadership evolution and maintaining authentic culture through organizational integration. Support our Sponsor: Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics * Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience. * Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview. * It only takes minutes to get up and running. KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ __ For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:57) Post-Acquisition Power Dynamics: The Humbling Moment (03:00) HR’s Inflection Point: More Responsibility, Same Resources (05:12) Top 5% HR Leaders: Show Courage and Speak the Language of Business (06:59) What ‘Understanding the Business’ Really Means (08:15) The Reality Check: HR’s Impossible Workload (10:25) Sponsor: Metaview (11:47) The Troubling Trend: AI Up, Leadership Development Down (13:50) The Future of Management: NVIDIA’s Model and Investing in ICs (18:18) Ruthless Experimentation and the Death of Best Practices (20:00) Building Credibility: Sharing Both Wins and Losses This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    23 min
  2. Why Giving Stock to Everyone Is Harder Than It Sound

    18 NOV

    Why Giving Stock to Everyone Is Harder Than It Sound

    On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli debate equity compensation philosophy: whether companies should extend stock options to all employees or reserve them for senior roles, weighing moral imperatives against investor dilution concerns and implementation complexity. Support our Sponsor: Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics * Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience. * Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview. * It only takes minutes to get up and running. KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ __ For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:07) Question about stock options for all employees (01:48) Carta’s philosophy on making everyone an owner (03:32) Moral case for giving equity to everyone (05:07) Story about Carta’s employee refresh and Fred Wilson (06:21) Challenge of educating employees on equity (08:28) Pendo’s approach to equity education and round tables (09:19) Setting expectations with $0 default value (10:08) Sponsor - Metaview (11:29) Cost of labor adjustments for equity across locations (13:00) Administrative challenges of geo-based equity adjustments (14:16) Employee communication and comparison issues (16:10) Board tension over equity dilution decisions (17:28) Attracting great talent requires competitive compensation (18:06) Moral case and taxes of giving equity (19:00) Importance of working with equity experts (19:46) Closing thoughts on geo strategy and communication (21:34) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    22 min
  3. Ex-Amazon Director's Viral Post Exposes Tech's Broken Employment Contract

    11 NOV

    Ex-Amazon Director's Viral Post Exposes Tech's Broken Employment Contract

    On today’s HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli dissect a viral LinkedIn post from an ex-Amazon director, exploring how inflated tech worker expectations clash with today’s brutal job market realities. Support our Sponsor: Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics * Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience. * Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview. * It only takes minutes to get up and running. KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ __ For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:19) What Ex-Amazon Talent Deserves (01:22) A Post Full of Assumptions (02:41) The X Response: Out of Touch and Ego-Driven (03:11) Sponsor: Metaview (03:34) The Remote Work Reality: That Era Is Over (04:39) The ChatGPT Turning Point: When Employment Fell Off a Cliff (06:01) Why This LinkedIn Post Won’t Help Her Job Search (06:29) The Coming Social Unrest and Displaced Tech Workers (07:40) The Grinding Mindset (09:09) When the Rules Changed Overnight (10:31) The FAANG Halo Effect Is Dead (11:55) The Quality of Life Fork: Ejecting from Tech (13:00) Re-Underwriting Your Career in the New Reality (14:20) Expectations Minus Reality Equals Happiness (14:39) Hedging Your Bets: Diversify Before It’s Too Late (15:52:) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    16 min
  4. Snowflake CPO Arnnon Geshuri on Their AI Framework for HR

    6 NOV

    Snowflake CPO Arnnon Geshuri on Their AI Framework for HR

    In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan interview Arnnon Geshuri, Chief People Officer at Snowflake and 8-year Tesla veteran, about building HR’s strategic authority through data analytics, his automate-augment-human AI framework, and why he recruits economists and data scientists alongside traditional HR professionals. Support our Sponsor: Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics * Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience. * Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview. * It only takes minutes to get up and running. KEEP UP WITH ARNNON, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Arnnon: linkedin.com/in/arnnongeshuri Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/en/ - For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (0:00) Intro (1:12) Three Key Lessons from Working with Elon Musk at Tesla (3:36) Why Snowflake: Reinventing the People Function (4:33) The Three-Pronged AI Framework: Automate, Augment, Human-Only (12:02) Sponsor: Metaview (19:45) Data Analytics as the Backbone of HR (24:00) Building the Winning HR Team Portfolio (27:08) Speed Through Imperfection: Fast Pilots and Iteration (29:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    30 min
  5. Molly Graham on Founder Depression and Executive Team Dynamics

    4 NOV

    Molly Graham on Founder Depression and Executive Team Dynamics

    For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan have a candid discussion with Silicon Valley operator Molly Graham on founder depression, imposter syndrome, executive team dynamics, and building business-first people operations at scaling companies. Support our Sponsor: Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics * Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience. * Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview. * It only takes minutes to get up and running. KEEP UP WITH MOLLY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Molly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mograham/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — Glue Club: https://www.glueclub.com/ - For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:43) Origin of “Giving Away Your Legos” (02:28) Emotions at Work (02:49) Meet Bob the Monster (04:15) Founder Depression Reality (06:27) The Emptiness of Startups (08:00) Life as a Barter Economy (09:14) “I Can’t Do Math” - Professional Moron Strategy (12:00) Growth Solves All Problems (13:00) When Leaders Hate Each Other (14:20) 50% Executive Hiring Success Rate (17:00) 18-Month Executive Tenure (18:34) Business First, Not Happiness (21:00) Era of Excess Is Over (21:51) Best Interview Question (22:05) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    22 min
  6. Get Inside the Mind of your Team’s Best Interviewer, with Vercel’s Viet Nguyen [from 10X Recruiting]

    30 OCT

    Get Inside the Mind of your Team’s Best Interviewer, with Vercel’s Viet Nguyen [from 10X Recruiting]

    Today on HR Heretics, we’re excited to cross post a conversation from Metaview’s 10x Recruiting Podcast featuring Viet Nguyen, Head of Global Recuiting Operations of Vercel, on using AI to analyze top interviewers’ transcripts, extracting their unconscious patterns and building tools that scale interviewing excellence. Support our Sponsor: Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics * Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience. * Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview. * It only takes minutes to get up and running. KEEP UP WITH VIET, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Viet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vietnguyen6/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ — Vercel: https://vercel.com/ - For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ — TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (00:13) Progress Over Perfection (01:00) Why Throwing Messy Data at AI Actually Works (01:37) The Three-Hour Experiment That Changed Everything (02:38) Create Leverage Where Possible (03:30) Do Nothing vs. Do Something: The Real Choice (04:00) Sponsor: Metaview (04:14) Interview Begins: Meet Viet Nguyen (04:51) The Rejection That Led to Friendship (05:26) The Five-Year Tour of Duty in Recruiting Ops (06:37) From Zero Coding Skills to Building AI Tools (08:00) The Gaspar Effect: Decoding Your Best Interviewer (10:30) What Makes a Great Interviewer Great? (13:45) Building the Automated Back-Channel Reference Tool (17:20) The RAG Database That Knows Everyone (20:00) When AI Says “No Connections Found” (And Why That’s Okay) (23:15) The Webhook That Keeps Your Database Fresh (26:51) Perfect Is the Enemy of Progress (28:00) “Anybody Can Cook” - The Non-Technical Builder’s Manifesto (28:27) Automating Interview Debriefs: The Next Frontier (29:28) Real-Time Debrief Summaries: The Dream State (30:04) Where to Find Viet (30:33) Community Show and Tell: The Vision (31:15) We’re All Stupid Together (And That’s the Point) (32:05) Friday Night Recruiting Projects (32:18) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

    33 min
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After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?     Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors. This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector. Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com

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