More or Less

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate. From The Information, Offline Ventures, and Slow Ventures. Follow the crew: http://x.com/davemorin http://x.com/brit http://x.com/lessin http:/x.com/jessicalessin Follow the pod: https://moreorlesspod.com/ http://youtube.com/moreorlesspod https://x.com/moreorlesspod

  1. 2D AGO

    AI Wearables Are Coming: Rings, Earrings, Glasses

    The squad is complete again! We get into AI wearables: rings, necklaces, even earrings, after Dave hints his stealth ring startup is almost ready. Waymo quietly rolls out SF–San Jose service (still no freeways), while private-jet owners email senators about the shutdown. The squad goes over Andy Rubin’s humanoid robotics launch, Sam’s backwards Panopticon sign, Apple’s Issey Miyake iPhone “sock/pocket,” and that Slow’s etiquette school is now getting international interest. We wrap with Janitor AI’s romance boom, Sam building an AI kids-podcast pipeline with ElevenLabs, Brit wanting McConaughey to voice romance, Jess taking an Instagram detox, and more. Chapters: 01:18 AI in interior design and AI slop; Why AI commerce still feels broken 04:59 Apple week iPhone Air vs Pro 08:49 Wearable AI flood Ray-Bans, rings, and other wearables 15:32 Jess deletes Instagram and maybe email 21:05 Multitasking vs focus 23:32 Andy Rubin’s new robotics company 27:15 SORON reveal and home deterrence roadmap 29:15 Military research to practical deterrent systems 30:29 Panopticon conference room and GDPR simplification 32:29 Waymo expansion and route quirks 35:35 Apple Issey Miyake iPhone pocket sock 38:40 Slow's Etiquette Finishing school goes global 44:50 The Lessin Family AI generated kids podcast 49:06 BBC scandal media bias and blowback 54:12 Lawfare the financialization of lawsuits We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/pA20Sk63yYE Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    59 min

  2. NOV 7

    Apple Chooses Gemini, Sequoia's Leadership Shake-up, and Meme Coins

    It’s Etiquette Finishing School Day at Slow Ventures, Sam dials in from the Four Seasons in a Brioni suit to recap Slow’s first-ever Etiquette School—covering caviar bumps, sommelier tips, and the “low heart rate” approach to leadership. The crew argue that etiquette now matters in tech because trust is scarce and “PMF-only” is an outdated YC-era story. Jess also unpacks details from Apple’s Gemini deal, Sequoia’s leadership shuffle, Anthropic’s latest numbers, and crypto’s meme-driven chaos. Watch till the end for free No Kings and Queens of Corbet protest tees from Sam. Chapters: 02:33 Etiquette Day at Slow — Sam’s recap from the Four Seasons 07:00 Why etiquette matters for founders in 2025 13:20 Apple x Google: Gemini to power Siri 17:24 Apple’s AI strategy: Restricting Spend on AI 20:04 LLMs vs search the new user behavior shift 27:40 Sequoia’s leadership handoff 36:44 Meme coin corner Jelly’s 400M rise and community-led products 47:55 Waymo swarms El Camino AI meets the real world 50:30 Sam's "No Kings and Queens" merch We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/zv4VdtKpQQkConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    57 min

  3. OCT 31

    Stuart Landesberg's Plan to Save the American West from Wildfires

    With Jess running The Information's massive WTF conference and Sam off-grid on a mountain, Brit and Dave hold down the fort with Stuart Landesberg, CEO of Seneca, a Slow- and Offline-backed startup building autonomous firefighting drones. Between deep tech inside jokes, Stuart coins pro-America tech and breaks down how Seneca’s five-drone strike teams deploy 500 lbs of foam across 30 square miles in under ten minutes—even at night. Wildfires now drain over a trillion dollars a year from the U.S. economy, and Seneca’s model of detect early, respond fast, outperforms retrofitting homes or relying on pilots. With demand rising from cities, utilities, and insurers protecting $5T in assets, Stuart’s focused on building long-term enterprise value, not chasing the AI hype cycle. Join the Seneca team: https://seneca.com/careers/ Chapters:03:28 Stuart’s path to Seneca and the wildfire problem10:36 The true economic cost of wildfires12:10 Prevention vs. suppression; prescribed burns and costs16:19 Exponential fire growth; strike teams and early knockdowns19:46 Autonomy + sensors; choosing actions in real time20:45 Five drones, 30 square miles, sub-10-minute response22:20 Night ops: why autonomy wins when pilots can’t fly25:42 Regulators, HOAs, utilities: who’s pulling adoption forward27:40 Capital, AI hype, and choosing long-term partners31:32 Founder advice; unexpected demand from private stakeholders39:38 Culture: Stoicism, Amor Fati, learning from crashes We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    43 min

  4. OCT 24

    TPUs Are Winning? Gemini + Anthropic vs NVIDIA, and OpenAI’s Atlas Explained

    The gang is back with a spicy opener: Brit calls out Dave for dismissing her “AI-assisted” doc as work slop, while Sam argues lowbrow culture now imitates machines and highbrow culture resists them. We break down OpenAI’s early, hallucination-prone Atlas browser and debate whether it’s a real agent platform, just memory capture, or total $$$ burn. Sora hype is cooling as TPUs rise—with Jessica noting how The Information's TPU scoop even nudged NVIDIA to move faster. OpenAI’s compute could approach ~$45B/year at ~3 GW, forcing new financing models and tough research vs GTM trade-offs—Sam calls it Pascal’s Wager for Big Tech. We close on AWS outages, crypto leverage swings, and why “swag is dead,” replaced by bespoke gifting as the new status move. Just another week of your favorite Technology podcast with the Morins and Lessins.Chapters:00:38 — Gang is back: notes on last episode and Yasso bars01:20 — Revisiting last week's “AI Work Slop”: Brit vs. Dave 03:49 — Culture vs. LLMs: highbrow resists, lowbrow imitates07:16 — Bot etiquette: Bot joining Zoom calls and writing thank you letters12:16 — OpenAI Atlas: early tests, hallucinations & agency potential17:29 — Sora hype cools: the consumer AI novelty cycle19:47 — The TPU plot twist: NVIDIA gets pushed to move faster22:40 — $45B compute future: Pascal’s Wager for Big Tech29:05 — AWS outages: one-offs vs systemic risk33:29 — The X Game: Mr.Beast, “manual slop,” and the screenshot era43:38 — Swag is dead: bespoke gifting = new status flex53:43 — Sports, socials & 2026 predictionsWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/VDYdIoHe4XAConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    55 min

  5. OCT 17

    Meta’s Teen Rules, OpenAI’s Content Shift, and Roblox the New Social Media?

    Jessica and Dave dive into the messy intersection of AI, culture, and the next wave of consumer tech. From the rise of “AI slop” to whether founders should build apps just for themselves, they debate what survives the model wars and what gets eaten alive. Along the way: 2025 Silicon Valley weirdness, $1B AI comp with no products, GLP-1 memes, kids treating Fortnite like the new social network, and California’s crackdown on youth tech. It’s part therapy session, part future forecast—the only technology podcast that you should listen to before you head into the weekend. Chapters: 00:40 Intro: The first “Jave” episode 01:17 The Grove lore: Ground zero of social networks 03:19 What’s actually working in consumer AI? 12:26 The Information’s mobile app and engagement lift 14:51 Summarization as the killer consumer use case 16:17 The “AI slop” problem in real work product 19:35 2025 Silicon Valley culture: dead internet, Sora slop, $1B comp 21:08 Refounding era (Handshake) and trendwatching 23:01 Startup to watch: BitRig and iPhone apps that build apps25:06 Why personalized apps 32:54 OpenAI Dev Day paranoia: Who gets eaten? 44:32 Parenting choices: Roblox/YouTube vs curated apps 58:36 Algorithmic novelty vs repetition comfort 01:02:47 OpenAI recalibrates adult content We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/Iug0dyIlpsA Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    1h 2m

  6. OCT 10

    Oracle's GPU Margins, OpenAI’s Consumer Playbook, and the Ads vs Commerce Endgame

    This week on More or Less: Jess drops The Information’s scoop on Oracle’s shaky GPU rental margins and how it spooked markets, while Sam insists AI workloads will soar, even if profits don’t. Dave crunches the numbers: an “Apollo program every 10 months,” data centers now powering half of U.S. GDP, and capital getting sucked from factories into GPUs. On the culture beat: Google’s Zeitgeist goes no-swag chic, Taylor gets her own Google Easter egg, and Instagram ads become the prototype for AI’s ad future, Restoration Hardware jet memes, Waymo etiquette, Bari Weiss’ $150M Free Press–meets–CBS glow-up, and more. Never a dull moment with the MOL squad.Chapters:01:17 – Slow's Etiquette Finishing school on 11/5 (Apply here: https://luma.com/vmd7rz6j)04:02 – Why everyone is replicating YC demo day17:15 – AI bubble check + Sora usage uptick18:04 – Oracle GPU rental margins scoop21:21 – Quantum skepticism24:26 – AI bubble propping up the U.S. GDP33:20 – OpenAI renting GPUs; finance structures everywhere38:48 – Where AI profits come from: ads, subs, commerce (nothing proven)42:31 – Bari Weiss’ Free Press sold for $150M; CBS Editor-in-Chief57:06 – Yoni Rechtman’s “self-promotion” stunt + Sam’s viral MrBeast post on XWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/p1bmrugU_6EConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    58 min

  7. OCT 3

    #119 OpenAI Sora vs. TikTok: Can “AI Entertainment” Fund the Compute Bill?

    Never a dull moment with the More or Less squad: Jessica questions whether Sora is just a novelty or the start of an AI-native social economy, arguing OpenAI needs its own device to escape current platform limits. Brit calls it “Vine meets MySpace,” highlighting its cameo mechanic as a creator tool that could outpace Meta’s AI video. Dave says Sora only needs to be entertaining and pitches OpenAI’s real graph play: embedding ChatGPT in group chats. Sam compares Sora to Truth Social, not Instagram, arguing power and narrative—not unit economics—drive the AI capex boom. The squad also touches on the “dead internet theory,” the importance of context over data, and the limits of LLM understanding, with side notes on Swifties and always-on AI wearables.Chapters:04:59 What is Sora? The Vine meets MySpace take 06:40 Early Sora product gaps: identity, friending, moderation 07:37 Creator utility vs novelty: will people care 09:51 Sora is Truth Social, not Instagram; Sam is Tom 11:20 Power vs ownership: modern mercantilism in AI14:03 Loose on copyright, tight on moderation—the 2x2 16:36 Production value is a false god 17:59 What is AI slop? Dead internet theory primer 20:16 Idealized ideas: vibe-coded pitches fool no one 22:18 Does entertainment alone create an economy 26:05 If you ran OpenAI, what would you build 28:39 The obvious social graph: ChatGPT in your group chats 30:53 Why OpenAI needs a device: voice multitasking plus identity UX 34:31 Context is king; models know nothing about you 36:19 Don’t sell your data; keep your context moat 38:02 Sutton vs LLMs: prediction without understanding 43:22 AI capex as narrative: Chinese housing and ’99 fiber analogiesWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/tDsh5VdoTpcConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    50 min

  8. SEP 26

    #118 Elon vs Altman: The $10B Capital War Reshaping Tech

    No Morins this week—just Jess and Sam, trading Gossip Girl “dear listener” asides for a tour of tech’s new power map. From Meta’s in-store glasses push to Apple’s “Find My” doubling as Gen Z’s stealth social network, the real story is how distribution and lock-in shape the future. Sam frames “mercantilism 2.0,” where global trade routes of capital now run through Silicon Valley, Tel Aviv, and Riyadh, with figures like Elon Musk and Sam Altman acting as brokers of $10B+ flows.In true Sam fashion, the conversation highlights why LLMs aren’t true moats, pointing instead to the infrastructure layer (chips, power, data centers) and the UX layer (distribution, product polish). Nvidia’s securitized GPU deals illustrate how structured finance and alliances are reshaping competition.The takeaway: early-stage VC may finally be moving past hype, becoming sober—and therefore interesting—again.Chapters:02:02 – Meta Ray-Bans: friction as onboarding strategy05:31 – Mercantilism 2.0: Tech’s new trade routes07:56 – Elon’s real genius: moving $10B+ into frontier tech09:27 – Sam Altman as mega-capital trade-route broker12:40 – Starlink V3 and the network-layer power shift16:08 – Could Elon own planetary communications?18:35 – Find My = stealth social network21:04 – Strategy assets over DCF: power, data centers, chips23:41 – LLMs aren’t the moat; moats shift lower/higher27:44 – AI’s expense revives structured finance30:56 – Nvidia as the East India Company of compute33:50 – Will a handful of players control all the assets?39:57 – Early-stage VC is sober (and exciting) again43:05 – TikTok’s heat moved to AI: the attention shiftWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    47 min
See All (126)

4.1
out of 5
89 Ratings

About

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate. From The Information, Offline Ventures, and Slow Ventures. Follow the crew: http://x.com/davemorin http://x.com/brit http://x.com/lessin http:/x.com/jessicalessin Follow the pod: https://moreorlesspod.com/ http://youtube.com/moreorlesspod https://x.com/moreorlesspod

Information

  • Creator
    Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2025
  • Episodes
    126
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
  • Show Website
    More or Less

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