More or Less

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
  • 4.1 (89)
  • TECHNOLOGY
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate. From The Information, Offline Ventures, and Slow Ventures. Follow the crew: http://x.com/davemorin http://x.com/brit http://x.com/lessin http:/x.com/jessicalessin Follow the pod: https://moreorlesspod.com/ http://youtube.com/moreorlesspod https://x.com/moreorlesspod

  1. 4D AGO

    #118 Elon vs Altman: The $10B Capital War Reshaping Tech

    No Morins this week—just Jess and Sam, trading Gossip Girl “dear listener” asides for a tour of tech’s new power map. From Meta’s in-store glasses push to Apple’s “Find My” doubling as Gen Z’s stealth social network, the real story is how distribution and lock-in shape the future. Sam frames “mercantilism 2.0,” where global trade routes of capital now run through Silicon Valley, Tel Aviv, and Riyadh, with figures like Elon Musk and Sam Altman acting as brokers of $10B+ flows.In true Sam fashion, the conversation highlights why LLMs aren’t true moats, pointing instead to the infrastructure layer (chips, power, data centers) and the UX layer (distribution, product polish). Nvidia’s securitized GPU deals illustrate how structured finance and alliances are reshaping competition.The takeaway: early-stage VC may finally be moving past hype, becoming sober—and therefore interesting—again.Chapters:02:02 – Meta Ray-Bans: friction as onboarding strategy05:31 – Mercantilism 2.0: Tech’s new trade routes07:56 – Elon’s real genius: moving $10B+ into frontier tech09:27 – Sam Altman as mega-capital trade-route broker12:40 – Starlink V3 and the network-layer power shift16:08 – Could Elon own planetary communications?18:35 – Find My = stealth social network21:04 – Strategy assets over DCF: power, data centers, chips23:41 – LLMs aren’t the moat; moats shift lower/higher27:44 – AI’s expense revives structured finance30:56 – Nvidia as the East India Company of compute33:50 – Will a handful of players control all the assets?39:57 – Early-stage VC is sober (and exciting) again43:05 – TikTok’s heat moved to AI: the attention shiftWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    47 min

  2. SEP 19

    #117 TikTok’s New Owner and Hiring a US CEO?

    The More or Less team go deep on the rumored TikTok deal: licensing the algorithm vs. owning influence, who actually controls the For You page, and why data localization misses the point. We debate A16Z’s evolving role, Sequoia’s must-have-access imperative, and what a “TikTok US CEO” would really do. Chapters: 00:48 - Intro + Ty Haney’s crypto-invisible loyalty rails 02:38 - “Do the weather” for Silicon Valley 05:04 - Alcatraz as brand strategy (and why) 11:22 - TikTok deal setup: ownership shuffle vs. real control 20:05 - What does a TikTok US CEO actually do? “Shell upon shell” 22:40 - “I want a human to pick my feed” — the curation comeback 24:21 - Slow’s Etiquette School: leveling the playing field 37:31 - Meta’s new glasses: HUD, wristband typing, live captions 44:33 - LLMs as the new youth battleground; customizing AI personalities 48:45 - Mid-cap IPOs, rate cuts, and why “number didn’t go up” 53:14 - The case for exclusive, hyper-local print (and price it high) We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/P3Gzl2ZDXWw Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    55 min

  3. SEP 12

    #116 iPhone Air or Pro? Apple Ignores AI and Wins?

    Apple ships hardware while everyone else ships AI press releases. The MOL quad debates whether Apple’s “ignore the hype” strategy wins, why YC is full of “made-to-chart” AI startups, what unique conviction really means for investors, and how meme warfare is becoming the new GTM. Chapters: 01:02 – “Ozempic iPhone” and why “thin” might be back 10:06 – Market reaction: “Not enough AI,” money flows to Oracle 16:49 – YC protest: is relevance measured by outrage? 25:47 – Creator-led startups as an investing edge 26:49 – Khosla: bargain hunting is a poor AI bet 37:20 – Why money feels unlimited again (FOMO returns) 40:29 – Quiet shakeout: sub-$100M seed funds at risk 42:05 – Crypto policy clarity as 2025 macro driver 50:11 – Meme warfare: the next GTM playbook We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/xzlAjHPZtW4 Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    53 min

  4. SEP 5

    #115 Anthropic at $170B: Should Unicorns Be Forced to IPO?

    Another busy week in tech and your favorite quad are back! We go over: Google’s antitrust “win,” AI M&A mania, Anthropic’s stay-private debate, why lawyers out-earn bankers now, and the barbell reality of internet businesses. We also unpack creator vs algorithm dynamics, the rise of Ozempic, and Sam’s wild “AI petty-lawsuit bot” idea. Chapters:02:07 – OpenAI’s $300k copywriting hire → AI not there yet 09:03 – AI M&A deals are small relative to hype 10:55 – Lawyers now out-earning bankers 12:40 – Google’s antitrust “loss” turned into a win 17:31 – Government says “AI will handle capitalism” 22:02 – Debate: force unicorns public at $100B+ 40:15 – Creators must transcend algorithms, not rely on feeds 45:07 – Only ~20M Americans really buy things — own that niche 56:07 – AI petty-lawsuit bots as the next “big market” 57:22 – AI is just compute wars, zero net value We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless YouTube: https://youtu.be/W1HVKJZg7qo Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    57 min

  5. AUG 29

    #114 Seed Rounds at $2B? The Dangers of AI Hype in VC With Tony Conrad

    In this episode of More or Less, Brit Morin and Dave Morin sit down with legendary VC Tony Conrad (True Ventures) for a candid conversation on the state of venture capital, the real impact of AI, the death of social media, and why non-attribution and EQ matter more than ever.Chapters: 01:30 – The Power (and Rarity) of Non-Attribution in Venture 04:00 – Building Culture After the Dot-Com Crash 06:00 – Why We Don’t Do This for the Money 08:30 – EQ vs IQ: The Human Side of Venture Capital 11:00 – The Wildfire Story: When VCs Show Up as Humans 16:50 – The Best GPs & Firms: Inspiration from Legacy and Newcomers 22:30 – Space Tech Is Real Venture Capital (Not Just AI) 28:10 – Venture Is a Contact Sport: Lessons from Ron Conway 30:40 – AI Hype: Is There Any Money Left for Startups? 40:00 – Manipulation, Social Media, and the Rise of AEO 49:30 – Building Brands in the Age of AI (and Why We Paused Consumer) 55:00 – The Dangers of AI Hype and Overfunding 57:00 – Why Contrarian Investing Can Wait—Focus on AI Now 1:04:00 – Pop Culture Corner: Taylor Swift, Branding, and First Concerts We’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    1h 10m

  6. AUG 22

    #113 GPT-5 Disappoints: The End of the AI Gold Rush?

    This week on More or Less, the crew dives into the shifting narratives around AI (Finally everyone is getting on Sam's wavelength), the reality of LLM business models, and why infrastructure may not be the gold rush everyone thinks. We debate the hype cycles, the authenticity crisis in startup pitches, and the pitfalls of meme coins in the creator economy. Plus, is Burning Man over, and what can Taylor Swift teach us about brand-building in the internet age? As always, join Jessica Lessin, Dave Morin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin for an unfiltered, insider take on what’s really happening in Silicon Valley.Chapters:0:40 – Intro and Silicon Valley Homecomings6:40 – AI, SaaS, and the Changing Narrative12:10 – The AI Moment: GPT-5 and the Plateau14:40 – AI Slop and the Devaluation of Content19:40 – OpenAI: From Hype to Sober Reality21:40 – The Problem with Narrative-Driven Startups24:40 – Marketing vs. Product: Who Really Wins?26:40 – Lying, Manifesting, and Silicon Valley Ethics30:40 – The Tower of Babel: Founders vs. VCs vs. AI36:40 – Burning Man: Has It Peaked?39:40 – Polyamory, Netflix Tropes, and the End of Media Originality43:40 – Meme Coins, Crowdfunding, and Creator Economy Pitfalls54:40 – Taylor Swift, Internet Fame, and Brand Lessons for StartupsWe’re also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    1h 5m

  7. AUG 15

    #112 Swift Should Buy Chrome, Not Perplexity

    This week, the team dives into more meme capitalism, the AI hype cycle, and why San Francisco is still the epicenter of tech ambition (and some very odd real estate choices). We debate the real value behind Perplexity, the future of Chrome, and the myths founders tell themselves about trials and second chances. Plus: Taylor Swift, conspiracy AIs, and the ultimate contrarian takes for VCs and founders. Your usual well rounded and brutally honest weekly episode of More or Less. Chapters: 00:00 – Taylor Swift Should Buy Chrome?! 02:30 – SF Comeback: The AI Pied Piper Effect 06:30 – Meme Capitalism: Conference of the Future 14:00 – AI Bubble Watch: Perplexity’s Valuation 17:30 – Founder Redemption: Always Call Your VCs 20:00 – The Dirty Secret of SaaS Trials 25:00 – Chrome Antitrust Circus 29:00 – AI Hardware: Bring Back the Flashlight 35:00 – Taylor Swift: Peak Culture or Just Getting Started? 43:00 – Conspiracy AI: The Next Meme Machine? We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    48 min

  8. AUG 8

    #111 Figma, OpenAI, Canva: the Rise of Meme Stock IPOs in Silicon Valley

    This week on More or Less: Jessica Lessin, Dave Morin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin dive deep into the surprisingly busy summer of venture capital, the impact of AI on startups, and the changing rules for founders and investors. From Figma’s IPO and the rise of meme-driven investing to the challenge of diligence in an AI-saturated world, we tackle the uncomfortable truths and new dynamics shaping Silicon Valley today. Chapters: 01:46 – Dude Perfect vs. The Circus: The Internet Killed Local Art 05:46 – The Creator Quality Bar Keeps Rising 07:46 – Figma IPO: Did Wall Street Fleeced Them? 10:46 – SaaS Is NOT Back & The Real IPO Signal 13:26 – OpenAI: The Ultimate Meme Stock? 15:46 – Seed Investing is Broken in the AI Era 20:46 – Valley Mood: Exuberance and Angst 22:46 – The Feudalism 2.0 Problem 39:46 – The Uncomfortable Truth About Founder Age & Life Stage 45:46 – Deep Work, Distraction, and the Future of Founders We’re also on ↓ X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod YouTube: https://youtu.be/D5Y-WZqsAlE Connect with us here: 1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin 2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin 3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin 4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

    53 min
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4.1
out of 5
89 Ratings

About

Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate. From The Information, Offline Ventures, and Slow Ventures. Follow the crew: http://x.com/davemorin http://x.com/brit http://x.com/lessin http:/x.com/jessicalessin Follow the pod: https://moreorlesspod.com/ http://youtube.com/moreorlesspod https://x.com/moreorlesspod

Information

  • Creator
    Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2025
  • Episodes
    119
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
  • Show Website
    More or Less

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