GOTO - The Brightest Minds in Tech

GOTO

The GOTO podcast seeks out the brightest and boldest ideas from language creators and the world's leading experts in software development in the form of interviews and conference talks. Tune in to get the inspiration you need to bring in new technologies or gain extra evidence to support your software development plan.

  1. Tech Truth: Teaching Kids to Code with Sonic Pi • Sam Aaron & James Lewis

    قبل يوم واحد

    Tech Truth: Teaching Kids to Code with Sonic Pi • Sam Aaron & James Lewis

    This conversation was recorded at GOTO Copenhagen 2025. https://gotocph.com Sam Aaron - Live Coding Musician & Creator of Sonic Pi James Lewis - Principal Consultant & Technical Director at Thoughtworks RESOURCES Sam https://www.patreon.com/samaaron https://bsky.app/profile/samaaron.bsky.social https://twitter.com/samaaron https://github.com/samaaron https://linkedin.com/in/samaaron James https://bsky.app/profile/boicy.bovon.org https://twitter.com/boicy https://linkedin.com/in/james-lewis-microservices Links https://sonic-pi.net https://twitter.com/sonic_pi https://github.com/sonic-pi-net/sonic-pi https://www.ableton.com/en/link https://hydra.ojack.xyz DESCRIPTION Programming isn't just lines of code, it's a gateway to creating music & art. Legends such as Ada Lovelace are proof of that. With the aim to reshape the perception of coding which has traditionally been complex and intimidating, Sam Aaron created Sonic Pi, an open-source, free-to-use platform that empowers users to create music through code. What began as a humble endeavor has grown exponentially with more than millions of downloads globally and a large number of schools integrating the tool as part of their computing curriculum to teach children how to program. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Sam Aaron & Russell Barnes • Code Music with Sonic Pi • https://amzn.to/4hBRYtC Hans Gruendel • Making Music with Sonic Pi • https://amzn.to/3oVxGV7 Hans Gruendel • Learn to Program with Sonic PI • https://amzn.to/3qCrLEO Simon Monk • Raspberry Pi Cookbook • https://amzn.to/43AGPRX Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais • Team Topologies • http://amzn.to/3sVLyLQ Forsgren, Humble & Kim • Accelerate: The Science of Lean Software and DevOps • https://amzn.to/3tCz1xO Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

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  2. Toad: Your AI Coding Agent Deserves a Better User Interface • Will McGugan & Olimpiu Pop

    قبل ٤ أيام

    Toad: Your AI Coding Agent Deserves a Better User Interface • Will McGugan & Olimpiu Pop

    This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted. https://gotopia.tech Will McGugan - Creator of Toad & the Python Packages, Rich, Textual & PyFilesystem Olimpiu Pop - Technologist & Tech Journalist ORIGINAL TALK TITLE The Python Dev Who Built Rich, Textual & now Toad Just Redesigned How You Talk to AI Check out more here: https://gotopia.tech/articles/437 RESOURCES Will https://mastodon.social/@willmcgugan https://x.com/willmcgugan https://bsky.app/profile/willmcgugan.bsky.social https://github.com/willmcgugan https://www.linkedin.com/in/willmcgugan https://willmcgugan.github.io Olimpiu https://x.com/olimpiupop https://github.com/zroll https://www.linkedin.com/in/olimpiupop Links https://www.textualize.io https://www.batrachian.ai https://github.com/textualize/rich https://github.com/Textualize/textual https://zed.dev https://willmcgugan.github.io/toad-released https://willmcgugan.github.io/announcing-toad DESCRIPTION In this GOTO Unscripted episode, Olimpiu Pop sits down with Will McGugan — Python PSF Fellow and creator of Rich (4+ billion downloads) and Textual — to demo his sabbatical project: Toad, a slick terminal-based universal frontend for AI coding agents. Will's frustration was simple and justified: every major AI coding tool (Claude Code, Gemini, Codex) was built on top-tier models but wrapped in a UI that looked like it was designed in 2004. Toad fixes that by using the Agent Client Protocol (ACP) as a standardized plug-in layer, giving users elegant prompt editing, proper streaming markdown rendering, beautiful tables, syntax highlighting, and a hybrid shell-plus-AI interface — all in the terminal, where developers already live. The conversation gets sharply honest when the topic turns to AI and developer craft. Will — a 30-year coding veteran who admits it's not instinctive for him to reach for AI — shares a clear-eyed view of its strengths and limits: AI is extraordinarily fast at anything well-defined and unambiguous, but still struggles with genuinely novel problems. His conclusion? Most of what software developers do day-to-day isn't actually novel — it's pattern assembly — and that's precisely where AI shines. The future of coding isn't replacement; it's liberation from the mechanical grind. Oh, and the podcast host literally reading out "music intro here" because stage directions ended up in the transcript? That one's a cautionary tale for the ages. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Will McGugan • Beginning Python Games Development 2nd ed. • https://amzn.to/4ebBfxu Will McGugan • Beginning Game Development with Python and Pygame • https://amzn.to/4cyVdB3 Sam Keen • Clean Architecture with Python • https://amzn.to/4pBT5g0 Eric Evans • Domain-Driven Design • https://amzn.to/3tnGhwm Naomi Ceder • The Quick Python Book • https://amzn.to/3zwdDOa Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

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  3. Java Cookbook • Ian Darwin & Jeanne Boyarsky

    ٨ مايو

    Java Cookbook • Ian Darwin & Jeanne Boyarsky

    This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club. http://gotopia.tech/bookclub Ian F. Darwin - Java, Android & Unix Developer, Trainer, Mentor & Author of "Java Cookbook" Jeanne Boyarsky - Oracle Java Champion, Co-Author of "Real-World Java" & "OCP 21 Java Cert Book" Check out more here: https://gotopia.tech/episodes/438 RESOURCES Ian https://fosstodon.org/@IanDarwin https://x.com/Ian_Darwin https://github.com/IanDarwin https://www.linkedin.com/in/idarwin https://www.darwinsys.com Jeanne https://bsky.app/profile/jeanneboyarsky.bsky.social https://mastodon.social/@jeanneboyarsky https://x.com/jeanneboyarsky https://github.com/boyarsky https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanne-boyarsky https://sites.google.com/view/jeanneboyarsky https://www.selikoff.net Links https://javacookbook.org https://dev.java/community/jcs DESCRIPTION In this GOTO Book Club, Java Champion Jeanne Boyarsky interviews Ian F. Darwin — author of one of Java's most enduring reference books, Java Cookbook, now in its fifth edition covering up to Java 25. The conversation traces Ian's extraordinary journey: from writing Java's first commercial training course outside of Sun Microsystems, to meeting Tim O'Reilly at a Unix conference and handing him a chapter on lint, to delivering a class in Houston where the entire room had just been laid off and were using the course as their golden handshake into a new career. Ian talks about the philosophy behind the book — culling a peak 900-page beast down to a tight 600 pages, anchoring tool choices on proven, battle-tested picks like JUnit, Mockito, and logging — and shares his three favourite chapters: Regular Expressions, Object-Oriented Techniques, and Reflection. The conversation gets sharply honest about AI and the future of the industry. Ian — who uses Claude as his coding assistant and does vibe code — warns that his greatest fear isn't AI taking over the world, but something subtler and more dangerous: companies stopping junior hires because AI can do the work, leaving no one to grow into the deep expertise that retires with the current generation. The parallel risk for books is equally candid: AI was trained on older editions, so the fifth edition is genuinely new and un-scraped territory. His advice for anyone who has learned the basics of Java? Don't ask an AI — buy the cookbook, save yourself years of trial and error, and for goodness' sake, read the code before you deploy it. "It's like building an airplane and putting passengers on it without flight testing." RECOMMENDED BOOKS Ian F. Darwin • Java Cookbook 5th ed. • https://amzn.to/3QH0NZy Ian F. Darwin • Java Cookbook 1st ed. • https://amzn.to/4sUpPlL Ian F. Darwin • Checking C Programs with Lint • https://amzn.to/3Q2C69Y Victor Grazi & Jeanne Boyarsky • Real-World Java • https://amzn.to/4oCEeBR Jeanne Boyarsky & Scott Selikoff • OCP 21 Java Cert Book • https://amzn.to/4lF8OIC Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

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  4. The Typo That Broke Production — And Accidentally Created Spring Cloud Contract • Marcin Grzejszczak & Jakub Pilimon

    ٥ مايو

    The Typo That Broke Production — And Accidentally Created Spring Cloud Contract • Marcin Grzejszczak & Jakub Pilimon

    This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted. https://gotopia.tech Marcin Grzejszczak - Software Engineer at HeroDevs & Java Champion Jakub Pilimon - Software Architect at jPilo & Software Consultant at Bottega IT Minds ORIGINAL TALK TITLE The Typo That Broke Production — And Accidentally Created Spring Cloud Contract Check out more here: https://gotopia.tech/articles/435 RESOURCES Marcin https://bsky.app/profile/toomuchcoding.com https://mastodon.social/@toomuchcoding@fosstodon.org https://twitter.com/MGrzejszczak https://github.com/marcingrzejszczak https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcin-grzejszczak-15565119 https://toomuchcoding.com Jakub https://twitter.com/JakubPilimon https://github.com/pilloPl https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakub-pilimon-449b7984 http://pillopl.github.io Links https://toomuchcoding.com/post https://martinfowler.com/articles/consumerDrivenContracts.html https://www.tomakehurst.com DESCRIPTION In this GOTO Unscripted episode, Jakub Pilimon sits down with Marcin Grzejszczak — Java Champion, Spring Cloud Contract contributor, author, mentor, and founder of a rural housewives' circle (yes, really) — to trace a 15+ year career that went from C++ on the Côte d'Azur to becoming one of the key architects of Spring Cloud Contract and the Micrometer Observation API. Marcin shares how real production pain — a junior dev fixing a typo in an API that silently broke every client — gave birth to what would become Spring Cloud Contract, and how he's never shy about calling out his own embarrassing code (complete with a Javadoc that opens with "I'm sorry"). The conversation pivots sharply into 2025 territory, with Marcin sketching out an AI-powered future for contract testing: instead of manually writing contracts (which developers routinely abandon), capture live production traffic, let AI generate the contracts, and let humans do what they're actually good at — reviewing and approving. Wrapping up with observability, Marcin argues the most underrated pillar isn't logs, metrics, or traces — it's context. Without knowing why something happened (a deployment, a business event), raw telemetry data is just noise. Practical, honest, and occasionally self-deprecating: a thoroughly human conversation in the age of AI. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Marcin Grzejszczak • Mockito Cookbook • https://amzn.to/4rXOrtf Marcin Grzejszczak • Instant Mockito • https://amzn.to/4lV2ePQ Sam Newman • Building Microservices • https://amzn.to/3dMPbOs Sam Newman • Monolith to Microservices • https://amzn.to/2Nml96E Roy Osherove • The Art of Unit Testing • https://bit.ly/3obiKNB Charity Majors, Liz Fong-Jones & George Miranda • Observability Engineering • https://amzn.to/38scbma Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

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  5. Learning API Styles • Lukasz Dynowski & Sam Newman

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    Learning API Styles • Lukasz Dynowski & Sam Newman

    This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club. http://gotopia.tech/bookclub Lukasz Dynowski - Independent Consultant & Co-Author of "Learning API Styles" Sam Newman - Author of "Building Microservices" & "Monolith to Microservices" Check out more here: https://gotopia.tech/episodes/436 RESOURCES Lukasz https://github.com/ludyn-leo https://www.linkedin.com/in/ldynia https://learningapistyles.com Sam https://twitter.com/samnewman https://github.com/snewman https://www.linkedin.com/in/samnewman http://samnewman.io http://samnewman.io/blog Links https://www.youtube.com/@ldynia1 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRkB-vSK4koOHYIhpKXuXpipVpByEKuPu https://learningapistyles.com https://github.com/ldynia/learning-api-styles https://nordicapis.com/the-bezos-api-mandate-amazons-manifesto-for-externalization https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1176617.1176622 DESCRIPTION In this GOTO Book Club episode, Sam Newman — author of "Building Microservices" — sits down with Lukasz Dynowski, co-author of "Learning API Styles", for a refreshingly low-level deep dive into a subject most developers think they already understand. The book deliberately starts from the network layer up — transmission modes, TCP, protocol stacks — rather than jumping straight to REST and GraphQL, because, as Lukasz explains, most API problems only become visible when you understand the substrate beneath them. The conversation covers the full spectrum: public vs internal APIs, the Bezos API Mandate moment, why treating your API as a product is non-negotiable, and why the choice between binary and textual protocols is never as obvious as performance benchmarks suggest. The real gold comes in two moments. First, Lukasz lays out a crisp checklist for what makes a good API — audience-awareness, maintainability, efficiency, intuitiveness, resilience, security, testability, and documentation that actually matches behavior. Second, Sam shares a war story about a credit derivative system where the only way to figure out who was accessing the database was to turn off the credentials and wait for angry phone calls. The lesson: context shapes every trade-off, there's no universal right answer between REST, gRPC, WebSockets, or messaging, and the best API decision is the one that fits your situation — not the one that fits the conference talk. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Lukasz Dynowski • Learning API Styles • https://amzn.to/3PFembK Sam Newman • Building Resilient Distributed Systems • https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/building-resilient-distributed/9781098163532 Sam Newman • Monolith to Microservices • https://amzn.to/2Nml96E Sam Newman • Building Microservices • https://amzn.to/3dMPbOs Ronnie Mitra & Irakli Nadareishvili • Microservices: Up and Running• https://amzn.to/3c4HmmL Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

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  6. A Common-Sense Guide to AI Engineering • Jay Wengrow & Kris Jenkins

    ٢٨ أبريل

    A Common-Sense Guide to AI Engineering • Jay Wengrow & Kris Jenkins

    This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club. http://gotopia.tech/bookclub Jay Wengrow - Author of “A Common-Sense Guide to AI Engineering” & CEO of Actualize Kris Jenkins - Lifelong Computer Geek and Podcast Host RESOURCES Jay https://x.com/jaywengrow https://github.com/jaywengrow https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaywengrow https://www.commonsensedev.com Kris https://bsky.app/profile/krisajenkins.bsky.social https://twitter.com/krisajenkins https://www.linkedin.com/in/krisjenkins https://github.com/krisajenkins http://blog.jenkster.com DESCRIPTION In this GOTO Book Club episode, host Kris Jenkins sits down with Jay Wengrow — founder of coding bootcamp Actualize and author of the bestselling Common-Sense Guide to Data Structures and Algorithms — to dig into his latest book, A Common-Sense Guide to AI Engineering. Jay demystifies how AI agents actually work: at heart, they're a clever hack where your code intercepts an LLM's text output, watches for special notation, and triggers real functions when it spots them. From there, the conversation expands into guardrails (regex, judge LLMs, and specialist ML models), multi-agent architectures for complex tasks, and a hands-on example of a 150-line podcast-generating app built entirely from scratch — no framework required. The real throughline is a pragmatic, sceptical take on the current AI tooling landscape. Jay argues that frameworks can lock you into patterns that haven't been proven yet, and that the field is too new to know which abstractions are genuinely worth having. His rule of thumb: reach for a framework only when it will do something meaningfully better than you can — not just faster. The book was deliberately written around fundamentals rather than specific tools, so it ages well even as the ecosystem moves at breakneck speed. The conclusion is refreshingly grounded: understand the LLM's inherent limitations, build the middle layer thoughtfully, and don't outsource your system prompts to anyone — or anything. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Jay Wengrow • A Common-Sense Guide to AI Engineering • https://pragprog.com/titles/jwpaieng Jay Wengrow • A Common-Sense Guide to Data Structures and Algorithms • https://amzn.to/4bPiTjd Jay Wengrow • A Common-Sense Guide to Data Structures & Algorithms in Python • https://amzn.to/3PpwtlT Jay Wengrow • A Common-Sense Guide to Data Structures and Algorithms in JavaScript • https://amzn.to/4dDSZBl Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

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  7. Beyond the Hype: What AI Actually Can (and Can't) Do • Jodie Burchell & Michelle Frost

    ٢٤ أبريل

    Beyond the Hype: What AI Actually Can (and Can't) Do • Jodie Burchell & Michelle Frost

    This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted. https://gotopia.tech Jodie Burchell - Senior Data Science Developer Advocate at JetBrains Michelle Frost - AI Advocate at JetBrains Check out more here: https://gotopia.tech/articles/431 RESOURCES Jodie https://bsky.app/profile/t-redactyl.bsky.social https://fosstodon.org/@t_redactyl https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodieburchell https://github.com/t-redactyl https://t-redactyl.io Michelle https://bsky.app/profile/aiwithmichelle.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-frost-dev https://aiwithmichelle.com Links https://www.youtube.com/@Asianometry https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.01547 https://softwareengineeringproductivity.stanford.edu DESCRIPTION Michelle Frost and Jodie Burchell - both developer advocates at JetBrains — sit down for a candid, wide-ranging conversation about the state of AI. Drawing on Jodie's unusual path from clinical psychology to biostatistics to NLP, and Michelle's background in machine learning fairness and AI ethics consulting, the two offer a measured, research-grounded perspective on generative AI's real capabilities and limitations. They trace historical parallels between today's AI boom and earlier 'AI summers,' unpack the contested definitions of AI and AGI, make the case for why foundational machine learning knowledge still matters, and examine what the evidence actually says about AI's impact on developer productivity. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Mark Coeckelbergh • AI Ethics • https://amzn.to/3SuXUbY Debbie Sue Jancis • AI Ethics • https://amzn.to/44yuEbR Alex Castrounis • AI for People and Business • https://amzn.to/3NYKKTo Phil Winder • Reinforcement Learning • https://amzn.to/3t1S1VZ Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

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  8. Kubernetes at the Edge • Charles Humble & Hannah Foxwell

    ٢١ أبريل

    Kubernetes at the Edge • Charles Humble & Hannah Foxwell

    This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club. http://gotopia.tech/bookclub Check out more here: https://gotopia.tech/episodes/432 Hannah Foxwell - Independent Consultant & Founder of "AI for the rest of us" Charles Humble - Freelance Techie, Podcaster, Editor, Author & Consultant RESOURCES Charles https://bsky.app/profile/charleshumble.bsky.social https://linkedin.com/in/charleshumble https://mastodon.social/@charleshumble https://conissaunce.com Hannah https://bsky.app/profile/hannahfoxwell.net https://medium.com/@hannahfoxwell https://x.com/HannahFoxwell https://github.com/hannahfoxwell https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-foxwell Links https://conissaunce.com/services.html https://www.aifortherestofus.co/newsletter https://conissaunce.com/music.html https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd0ynenr1eno DESCRIPTION Hannah Foxwell sits down with Charles Humble - speaker, advisor, podcast host, and author - to explore his e-book "Kubernetes at the Edge". They cover what "edge computing" actually means, why it matters across industries from precision agriculture to healthcare and retail, how to approach vendor selection and day-two operations, and why sustainability must be central to how we build and deploy technology. The conversation closes with a frank and thoughtful discussion about the responsibilities of the tech industry in the age of generative AI. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Charles Humble • Kubernetes at the Edge • https://www.conissaunce.com/kubernetes-edge-ebook Charles Humble • Professional Skills for Software Engineers • https://conissaunce.com/professional-skills-shortcut Charles Humble • The Developer's Guide to Cloud Infrastructure, Efficiency & Sustainability • https://conissaunce.com/sustainability-ebook Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

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The GOTO podcast seeks out the brightest and boldest ideas from language creators and the world's leading experts in software development in the form of interviews and conference talks. Tune in to get the inspiration you need to bring in new technologies or gain extra evidence to support your software development plan.

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