Alternative Exit

Andy
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Alternative Exit is a dedicated to educating small business owners about the possibilities, benefits, and challenges of transitioning to an employee ownership model. There are over 200m SMEs with an owner who will be retiring in the next 10 years, many of which will never find a buyer for their business, forcing them to close their doors.  There is an alternative. This show will explore various the different forms of employee ownership and best practices for successful transitions. Each episode features interviews with experts in employee ownership, business owners who have made the transition, and consultants who facilitate these changes.

  1. Alternative Exit # 46 | Live from the EOA, The Middle of the Journey - Liam Toms on Grapevine's EO Evolution

    5H AGO

    Alternative Exit # 46 | Live from the EOA, The Middle of the Journey - Liam Toms on Grapevine's EO Evolution

    Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by EOT Expert by Christian Wilson – providing technical expertise and compliance support for EOT transitions and ongoing governance. Learn more at eotexpert.co.uk In this live episode from the EOA Conference in Telford, Andy talks with Liam Toms, Communications and Engagement Manager at Grapevine, a managed service provider for IT and telecom services. Nearly three years into their employee ownership journey, Liam shares candid insights about being somewhere "in the middle" - past the early surprises but still navigating challenges. Key Takeaways: Liam represents a common experience: he found out Grapevine was transitioning to EO through individual meetings, not a broad announcement. He'd heard whispers the week before and "did a very good job of pretending to be totally surprised." While conventional wisdom suggests consulting staff beforehand, Liam acknowledges the tradeoff: "If you're going to work for a company rather than starting your own business, you're doing it because you want the features of being employed. Suddenly you're saying people have these heightened responsibilities they didn't ask for." The business set up an EO forum with their longest-serving employee (33 years), Liam, and a very new recruit. What started as employee representation became a "task squad" - lifting rocks that hadn't been moved in years, dealing with organizational "life laundry" accumulated over 30 years. This gave Liam and his senior colleague confidence to move into management roles. The conversation explores the challenge of profit share volatility: year one had healthy profit share, year two didn't. Logically, averaging across two years is still good. But people don't think that way. "It's like we did really well and then we're not doing well." The business is still learning how to help people see the bigger picture. Memorable Moments: Finding out individually and pretending to be surprisedThe EO forum becoming an organizational "task squad""Do things different so people see that something has changed" - Bella's key adviceThe challenge: "People don't really get it yet, like what they can and can't do"Year one profit share vs year two: "Business is like a piece of trucks"Hosting their first annual conference (after the venue cancelled a week before)Liam's advice: "Give it a go. What's the alternative? You sell to a bigger organization. I think we've had enough of that."Guest: Liam Toms, Communications and Engagement Manager at Grapevine LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liamtoms/Company: https://grapevine.uk.comSponsor: This episode is brought to you by EOT Expert by Christian Wilson – providing technical expertise and compliance support for EOT transitions and ongoing governance. Learn more at eotexpert.co.uk

    28 min
  2. Alternative Exit #45 | Transformative Impact: Exploring Employee Ownership with Campbell Mcdonald

    4D AGO

    Alternative Exit #45 | Transformative Impact: Exploring Employee Ownership with Campbell Mcdonald

    What does it really take to make employee ownership work? In this episode, I talk with Campbell McDonald, one of the UK’s leading experts on employee ownership and managing director of the Eternal Business Consultancy. With 14 years in the EO space—from his early days at the John Lewis Partnership to leading the landmark 2023 EO Knowledge Programme—Campbell brings unmatched insight into what truly drives successful EO businesses. We break down what the data shows about EO’s transformative impact and uncover what really happens between the deal and a healthy ownership culture. Campbell shares the two essential questions every employee-owned company must answer, why education matters more than instructions, and how trust between boards and trustees shapes outcomes. We also touch on what employees value most and why setting honest expectations from day one is crucial. Whether you’re a founder exploring EO or already past the transaction stage, Campbell offers a clear, practical roadmap for turning employee ownership into real, lasting impact. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview  01:30 Campbell's Journey into Employee Ownership  05:45 The Power of John Lewis Partnership's Legacy  09:20 The Transformative Impact of Employee Ownership  14:15 The 2023 EO Knowledge Programme: Proof of Impact  22:40 What Happens Inside the Black Box?  28:50 The Two Critical Questions Every EO Business Must Answer  35:10 Education vs. Instruction: Building Ownership Behaviors  42:30 Setting Honest Expectations from Day One  48:15 The Role of Independent Trustees in Building Trust  55:20 Challenges and Opportunities Ahead for UK Employee Ownership Key Takeaways: ⚫ Campbell’s Dublin “prove it” moment sparked his mission to gather hard data on EO impact. ⚫ The 2023 EO Knowledge Programme showed an 8–12% productivity boost and strong individual outcomes in EO businesses. ⚫ Leaders must answer two questions: What are your 2–3 ownership differences? What owner behaviors do you expect? ⚫ The “good company penalty”: strong pre-EO businesses must work harder to show clear ownership benefits. ⚫ Materiality surveys uncover surprising differences in what employees value across locations and roles. About Campbell McDonald: Campbell McDonald is the Managing Director of the Eternal Business Consultancy, Chief Executive of Ownership at Work, and an Executive Fellow at Rutgers University’s Institute for the Study of Employee Ownership. With 14 years in the EO movement, he has supported dozens of businesses through transitions and serves as an independent trustee for several employee-owned companies. He led the 2023 EO Knowledge Programme—the UK’s largest research study on the impact of employee ownership. Campbell previously consulted for the John Lewis Partnership and founded Baxendale Advisory, an EOT-owned management consultancy. He champions evidence-based approaches to unlocking the transformative power of EO. Connect with Campbell McDonald: Website: https://www.theeternalbusiness.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/campbell-mcdonald-628378 Ownership at Work: https://ownershipatwork.org  Connect with Andy Farquharson: LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ Instagram - https://instagram.com/andyfarq Website - https://abettermonday.me/ Email - andy@bettermonday.me

    1h 4m
  3. Alternative Exit #34 | Tiara Letourneau on Innovative Finance and Employee Ownership

    NOV 21

    Alternative Exit #34 | Tiara Letourneau on Innovative Finance and Employee Ownership

    What does it take to build an entirely new employee ownership ecosystem from the ground up? In this episode, I sit down with Tiara Letourneau, co-founder and CEO of Rewrite Capital and board chair of Employee Ownership Canada, to explore how she's architecting Canada's emerging EOT market. With a Master's in Finance from Cambridge and a background in climate finance and impact investing, Tiara brings a unique lens to employee ownership—one focused on creating excellent companies, not just executing transactions. We dive into the fascinating journey from lobbying for new legislation to building a specialized advisory firm that combines M&A expertise with industrial psychology. Tiara shares why change management is just as critical as financial structuring, how Canadian EOTs offer unprecedented flexibility, and what it takes to help business owners reimagine succession beyond the traditional sale. This conversation is packed with insights on trustee roles, governance transitions, securing bank financing without personal guarantees, and why Canada's three-year window demands a quality-first approach to every transaction. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and Tiara's Journey to Employee Ownership  08:00 Lobbying for Canada's EOT Legislation and Building a Coalition  14:00 Why Design and Implementation Matter as Much as M&A  22:00 Training the ABCs: Trustees, Boards, and Management  32:00 Helping Owners Reimagine Control and Legacy  37:00 Financing EOTs: Securing Bank Partnerships Without Personal Guarantees  46:00 The Three-Step Process: Feasibility, Roadmapping, and Transaction  54:00 Quickfire Round: Leaders, Resources, and Advice for Owners Key Takeaways: Combining M&A expertise with industrial psychology and change management prevents years of post-transaction governance friction and creates stronger employee ownership transitionsCanada secured 14 financial partners willing to lend for EOTs without personal guarantees by focusing on conservative leverage (40-50%) and speaking the language of bankersThe critical question for business owners isn't about maximizing price—it's "What do you wish to preserve about your company?" and designing the transaction around that visionBuilding great EOTs from scratch requires including diverse employee voices in benefit design, extensive trustee training, and understanding the distinction between beneficiary ownership and trustee responsibilityAbout Tiara Letourneau: Tiara Letourneau is co-founder and CEO of Rewrite Capital, Canada's premier M&A advisory firm dedicated exclusively to Employee Ownership Trusts, and board chair of Employee Ownership Canada. With a Master's in Finance from Cambridge and extensive experience in climate finance, Islamic finance, and impact investing, she has designed and optimized multi-billion dollar funds before turning her focus to employee ownership. Tiara was instrumental in advocating for Canada's EOT legislation and is recognized as a thought leader in innovative finance solutions that tackle systemic challenges while preserving company culture and legacy. Connect with Tiara Letourneau: LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/tiaraletourneau/ Website: www.rewritecapital.com    Connect with Andy Farquharson: LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ Instagram - https://instagram.com/andyfarq Website - https://abettermonday.me/ Email - andy@bettermonday.me

    59 min
  4. Alternative Exit #43 | Exploring the Benefits of Employee Ownership with Frank Cetera

    NOV 13

    Alternative Exit #43 | Exploring the Benefits of Employee Ownership with Frank Cetera

    What does it mean to truly live the values of shared ownership? In this episode, I sit down with Frank Cetera, Director of the Business Transfers Program at the Democracy at Work Institute, to explore his journey from a union household to becoming a national leader in employee ownership transitions. Frank shares how early experiences with workers' rights shaped his career helping businesses transition to worker cooperatives, ESOPs, and other employee ownership models. We dive into the practical challenges workers face when stepping into ownership—from understanding financial statements to building confidence in decision-making. Frank breaks down open book management, effective facilitation techniques, and how cities are creating entire ecosystems to support transitions. Plus, he shares his remarkable story of converting his own Syracuse home into a housing cooperative, truly walking the talk of shared ownership. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and Frank's Journey to Employee Ownership 05:00 Understanding the Democracy at Work Institute's Mission 09:00 Core Benefits of Employee Ownership for Workers 16:00 Overcoming Financial Literacy Challenges Through Open Book Management  22:00 Building Confidence and Creating Effective Governance Structures  29:00 Values-Driven Transitions and Working with Business Owners  33:00 Building City-Scale Ecosystems for the Silver Tsunami  37:00 Quickfire Round: Leaders, Resources, and Final Advice Key Takeaways: ➔ Employee ownership delivers stability, increased wages through profit-sharing, and confidence growth—with the confidence factor being the most underappreciated benefit ➔ Financial literacy is the biggest challenge for new worker-owners; open book management should start years before transition with clear, jargon-free statements that connect numbers to daily work ➔ Strong facilitation and ongoing education are essential for effective participatory meetings and decision-making, helping workers build confidence to contribute strategically ➔ Successful transitions come from values-driven owners who prioritize legacy and community impact over maximizing sale price, though awareness gaps among accountants and advisors remain a major barrier ➔ City-level ecosystem building—with municipal funding for technical assistance, marketing, and referral networks—is proving to be the most effective strategy for scaling employee ownership during the silver tsunami About Frank Cetera: Frank Cetera is the Director of the Business Transfers Program at the Democracy at Work Institute, where he leads national efforts to support business transitions toward employee ownership. With roots in a union household and experience spanning environmental nonprofits to business development, Frank serves as the backbone coordinator for the Workers to Owners Collaborative—a network of 50+ organizations supporting employee ownership transitions across the United States. He also serves on the board of Syracuse Cooperative Federal Credit Union and is actively converting his own collective house into a housing cooperative, embodying the cooperative values he advocates professionally. Connect with Frank Cetera: Website: www.institute.coop Website (Resources): www.becomingemployeeowned.org https://www.linkedin.com/in/frankraymondcetera/  Connect with Andy Farquharson: LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ Instagram - https://instagram.com/andyfarq Website - https://abettermonday.me/ Email - andy@bettermonday.me

    40 min
  5. Alternative Exit #42 | Eric Strickland on Employee Ownership & Innovation

    NOV 7

    Alternative Exit #42 | Eric Strickland on Employee Ownership & Innovation

    What happens when you combine employee ownership with human services? In this episode, I sit down with Eric Strickland, CEO of 3TLs—a purpose-driven group of 18 employee-owned companies with nearly 700 employee owners across five states. Eric shares his 20-year journey from CFO to CEO, including the rare "ESOP-to-ESOP" transaction that launched 3Ls and his innovative approach to building employee wealth through vertical integration. We explore how Eric thinks about employee ownership as an asset allocation problem, why culture requires intentional investment, and how to drive innovation in purpose-driven organizations. From quarterly town halls to investing in early-stage healthcare tech, Eric reveals what it takes to make employee ownership work in mission-focused businesses where workers care more about impact than retirement accounts. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and Eric's Background 03:00 The First ESOP and Why It Closed to New Participants 07:00 The Rare ESOP-to-ESOP Leveraged Buyout 12:00 Three Ls and the Vertical Integration Strategy 20:00 Investing in Culture and Building Trust 30:00 Driving Innovation Through Frontline Creativity 36:00 Innovation as Asset Allocation 39:00 Common Myths About ESOPs 45:00 Quickfire Questions and Final Advice Key Takeaways: Why OmniVisions needed a second ESOP after the first closed to new participantsHow to think about employee ownership as a retirement asset allocation problemThe vertical integration playbook: turning operating expenses into employee-owned businessesWhy quarterly town halls with open Q&A build the trust necessary for strong EO cultureThe biggest ESOP myths: complexity and cost compared to traditional exitsWhy it takes 24+ months for young workers to see meaningful value in their ESOP accountsAbout Eric Strickland: Eric Strickland is the CEO of 3Ls, a purpose-driven organization of 18 employee-owned companies serving human and health services across five states. With a 20-year tenure that began as CFO of OmniVisions in 2005, Eric has become a leading voice in the employee ownership movement, bringing a systems-minded, numbers-focused approach to social entrepreneurship. Connect with Eric Strickland: LinkedIn:https://linkedin.com/in/eric-strickland-3ls/ Website: https://3ls.com  Connect with Andy Farquharson: LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ Instagram - https://instagram.com/andyfarq Website - https://abettermonday.me/ Email - andy@bettermonday.me

    50 min
  6. Alternative Exit #41 | Redefining Succession: Embracing Employee Ownership with David Owen

    OCT 30

    Alternative Exit #41 | Redefining Succession: Embracing Employee Ownership with David Owen

    In this episode of Alternative Exit, Andy Farquharson sits down with legal industry veteran David Owen (formerly CEO of Oliver & Co Solicitors) to unpack the real-world exit journeys from law practice, the shift to employee ownership, and why the toughest deals often happen internally. We dive into leadership, succession strategy, emotional and financial components of exiting a professional services business, and how to position yourself well ahead of the sell or transition day. David shares his path from rising partner to CEO of Oliver & Co, his decision-making as the firm moved to 100% employee ownership, the deal structure (and mindset) behind the transition, and how he navigated the emotional side of stepping away. We explore: How do you know when it’s time to exit? How do you craft an exit that preserves culture? How much is “enough”? And, maybe most importantly, how do you prepare your successor (or successor culture) so the business survives — and thrives — after you depart? Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction: Why Podcast Sustainability Matters 03:15 Environmental Impact - Digital Carbon Footprint  08:45 Green Hosting and Production Practices  12:30 Social Sustainability - Diversity and Inclusion Goals  18:20 Making Content Accessible to All  22:40 Economic Sustainability - Revenue Diversification  27:15 Team Wellbeing and Fair Compensation  31:50 Content Strategy for Long-term Impact  36:25 Measurement, Metrics, and Accountability  41:10 Quick Wins You Can Implement Today Key Takeaways: Exiting a professional-services business is not just about money — culture, client continuity and legacy matter significantly.Start planning the exit years before you actually want to depart: mindset, systems, leadership, client relationships.Converting to an employee ownership model (like Oliver & Co did) can align incentives and preserve continuity for clients and staff.Value creation happens in the business long before a board says “we’re ready to exit” — leadership matters.The emotional aspect of “letting go” is often underestimated — even when financials are strong.After exit, staying involved in a non-executive/trustee role can help with transition and personal identity. David Owens David Owens is the former CEO of Oliver & Co Solicitors, a firm based in Chester, UK. Under his leadership, the firm became 100% employee-owned and has consistently championed a high-performance but client-first culture. His expertise spans professional-services leadership, exit strategy, succession planning and governance in owner-led firms. Oliver & Co Solicitors is a full‐service law firm based in the North-West of England. It provides services in personal and business law, including conveyancing, wills & probate, family law, commercial property and more. The firm emphasises “we are accountable to our clients and to each other” as part of its employee-ownership culture. Connect with David Owen: LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-owen-eot/ Website - https://www.oliverandco.co.uk/  Connect with Andy Farquharson: LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ Instagram - https://instagram.com/andyfarq Website - https://abettermonday.me/ Email - andy@bettermonday.me

    41 min
  7. Alternative Exit #40 |The Data Behind Employee Owned Success with Rutgers' Adria Scharf

    OCT 23

    Alternative Exit #40 |The Data Behind Employee Owned Success with Rutgers' Adria Scharf

    What drives a founder to sell their company to employees instead of outside investors? In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Adria Scharf, Project Director of the Curriculum Library for Employee Ownership (CLEO) at Rutgers University, to explore her groundbreaking research on what motivates business owners to choose employee ownership as their exit path. Adria shares insights from her ongoing study of ESOP sellers, unpacks the emotional and economic logic behind these decisions, and reflects on why ownership transitions are never just financial—they’re deeply human. We dive into the emerging evidence shaping the future of employee ownership in the U.S., from macroeconomic trends to personal stories of founders who prioritise legacy over liquidation. Adria discusses why awareness and education remain the biggest barriers to broader adoption, and how a high-trust culture can make or break a successful transition. Packed with data, heart, and hope, this episode offers a rare window into the psychology of selling—and the possibility of exits that build both wealth and community. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview  01:13 Exploring the Rutgers Institute’s Research Legacy  04:17 The Rising Awareness of Employee Ownership in the U.S.  08:20 What Motivates Founders to Choose Employee Ownership  11:55 The “Benevolence” Factor and Cultural Transitions  15:17 How Awareness and Advisor Education Affect Adoption  17:33 The Synergy Between High-Trust Culture and Employee Ownership  23:28 The True Cost—and Payoff—of Investing in Culture  28:34 ESOPs and the Wealth-Building Impact for Workers  32:20 Barriers to Scaling Employee Ownership  34:12 Fast Round: Leaders, Resources, and Final Words of Advice Key Takeaways: Why wealth inequality and wage stagnation are driving renewed interest in employee ownershipThe mixed motivations of sellers—balancing liquidity, values, and workforce legacyHow some owners find ESOPs a financially rational exit, not just a benevolent oneThe hidden effort required to build high-trust, high-performance cultures post-transitionWhy awareness and advisor education are the biggest barriers to EO adoptionThe proven wealth impact of ESOPs: average $165,000 per employee in retirement valueWhy ESOP regulation makes it a uniquely inclusive and equitable ownership modelAdria’s call for simpler, off-the-shelf EO models to reach smaller businesses About Dr. Adria Scharf: Dr. Adria Scharf is the Project Director of the Curriculum Library for Employee Ownership (CLEO) at Rutgers University, the world’s largest university-based institute dedicated to advancing research and education on shared capitalism. Her work explores how employee ownership influences job quality, economic security, and business succession. A respected researcher and advocate, Adria has co-authored multiple reports and is shaping the academic foundation for the next generation of equitable business models. Connect with Dr. Adria Scharf: Website: https://cleo.rutgers.edu  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adria-scharf-621b442/ Connect with Andy Farquharson: LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/  Instagram - https://instagram.com/andyfarq  Website - https://abettermonday.me/

    39 min
  8. Alternative Exit #39 | The Power of EOTs: Creating 3,500 Employee Owners with Christian Wilson

    OCT 2

    Alternative Exit #39 | The Power of EOTs: Creating 3,500 Employee Owners with Christian Wilson

    What does it really take to transition a business to employee ownership—and what happens after you sign on the dotted line? In this episode, I sit down with Christian Wilson, a specialist solicitor with over 25 years of experience in business law and employee ownership. Christian has helped more than 62 companies transition to Employee Ownership Trusts (EOTs), creating 3,500 employee owners across businesses valued at over £450 million. He shares the legal, emotional, and practical realities of making employee ownership work. Timestamps: 00:01:12 Christian's Journey into Employee Ownership Law  00:04:36 What Makes a Company Right for an EOT  00:08:12 The Three Parts of an EOT Transition  00:12:29 Valuation, Affordability, and the Retirement Conversation  00:19:13 Life After Completion: The Real Work Begins  00:23:23 Why Open Book Management Matters  00:27:07 Giving Employees a Voice and Influence  00:34:23 Success Stories: Real Examples from EOT Companies  00:38:58 Quickfire Round: Leaders, Resources, and Advice Key Takeaways: Employee ownership transitions involve three journeys: legal structure, personal succession for the owner, and cultural evolution for the teamValuation and affordability are different—the company funds the purchase through future profits over 6-10 years typicallyThe day you complete the EOT is day one of being employee owned, not the finish lineOpen book management unlocks entrepreneurial thinking and helps employees understand business trade-offsEmployee voice must be matched with responsive leadership—ask for feedback, then show how you've considered itWell-structured EOTs include flexibility for market changes and unexpected challengesAbout Christian Wilson: Christian Wilson is a Partner Solicitor at Spencer West LLP, specializing in Employee Ownership Trusts and business succession. With over 25 years of experience, he has guided more than 62 companies through successful transitions to employee ownership, creating 3,500 employee owners with a combined business value exceeding £450 million. Christian is ranked as a Leading Individual in Legal 500 and a Notable Practitioner in Chambers Guide to the Legal Profession. He is also a member of the Employee Ownership Association, an independent trustee for several EOTs, and was previously a non-executive director of the Eden Project. Christian is known for his genuine passion for employee ownership and his ability to make complex legal processes accessible and seamless. Connect with Christian Wilson: Website: https://employee-ownership-trusts.co.uk Spencer West Profile: https://www.spencer-west.com/team/christian-wilson/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-wilson-a3597017/ Email: christian.wilson@spencer-west.com  Connect with Andy Farquharson: LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/andyfarquharson/ Instagram - https://instagram.com/andyfarq Website - https://abettermonday.me/ Email - andy@bettermonday.me

    43 min
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About

Alternative Exit is a dedicated to educating small business owners about the possibilities, benefits, and challenges of transitioning to an employee ownership model. There are over 200m SMEs with an owner who will be retiring in the next 10 years, many of which will never find a buyer for their business, forcing them to close their doors.  There is an alternative. This show will explore various the different forms of employee ownership and best practices for successful transitions. Each episode features interviews with experts in employee ownership, business owners who have made the transition, and consultants who facilitate these changes.

Information

  • Creator
    Andy
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2025
  • Episodes
    49
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2025 Alternative Exit
  • Show Website
    Alternative Exit

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