Associations NOW Presents

associationsnowpodcast
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An original podcast from the American Society of Association Executives where we explore key topics relevant to association professionals, discuss the challenges and opportunities in the field today, and highlight the significant impact associations have on the economy, the U.S., and the world.

  1. 1d ago

    Why Slower Marketing Can Drive Stronger Member Engagement

    Recorded live at ASAE’s Marketing, Membership, Communications + Tech Conference, guest host Brittany Lancor of PropFuel sits down with best-selling author and MarketingProfs CCO Ann Handley to discuss the power of “strategic patience” in a culture obsessed with speed. Handley challenges associations to focus on meaningful engagement over vanity metrics, communicate in members’ own language, and prioritize authentic, human-centered messaging. She also shares practical advice on creating more effective email communications and explains why AI is best used to uncover insights and support strategy—not to replace the human connection that drives engagement. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/nKZs2BI23bQ Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Brittany Lancor: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. Welcome to this month's episode of Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I am Brittany Lancor, senior marketing manager of PropFuel. We are recording today from ASAE's MM&C conference here in Washington, DC, where association professionals from across the industry are gathering to share ideas, build connections, and explore what's next for the community. Today, we are so excited to welcome Ann Handley, the world's first chief content officer, best-selling author, and CCO of MarketingProfs. She just delivered the keynote address on the first day of this conference, so we are going to ask some questions. The first question I have for you is where did you get your suit? This is amazing. If you are watching from home, you have to look at this suit. It's wonderful.  Ann Handley: So you're asking who am I wearing?  Brittany Lancor: Yes.  Ann Handley: Is that the question? Yes. Yeah, first of all, [00:01:00] thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here with all of you, be here with you. So who am I wearing? Today I am wearing Alice + Olivia, and I'll tell you, my biggest stress today was not even the keynote, it was, do I include the bow? Brittany Lancor: I love it. Ann Handley: Or do I leave it off? It's detachable.  Brittany Lancor: The bow was the great choice.  Ann Handley: So I don't know, I went for it, and I like the way it kinda waves around on stage a little bit,  Brittany Lancor: like- Yeah ... I'm prancing around and doing whatever. Yes. It looked great. Yeah. Okay, next question. Oh, yeah, I guess the questions now. Who are you? Help us, like give a quick introduction of who you are, help the audience understand who we're talking with today.  Ann Handley: So yeah, obviously Ann Handley, chief content officer of MarketingProfs. I've been in marketing for a million years, a million dog years. That was like a million plus years. I founded a company called ClickZ ages ago, which is one of the first sources of digital marketing at a time when digital marketing was a sort of brand-new thing, and from there founded MarketingProfs, and I've written a few books about marketing and content, particularly Everybody Writes, which is a [00:02:00] Wall Street Journal bestseller. It's been translated into 19 different languages. The whole ethos of that is really helping marketers, not just content marketers, but all marketers and all businesses really figure out, how do we communicate in a way that's authentic and real, and uniquely us? And honestly, that's a message that we need more than ever now- Yeah in the age of AI. So yeah, author, entrepreneur. Speaker, obviously, and yeah, just friend of Brittany.  Brittany Lancor: Yeah? Yeah. And did I see you're also a dog mom?  Ann Handley: Oh, yeah. Most important thing. Yeah. Yeah, my Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, his name is Augie. He is a stage five clinger. I love him so much, and he loves me just even more. Because love is just that. Do you have a dog?  Brittany Lancor: I have two.  Ann Handley: Oh, you do?  Brittany Lancor: Yes.  Ann Handley: What kind?  Brittany Lancor: They're mutts. One's a terrier, blue heeler mix.  Ann Handley: Oh, wow.  Brittany Lancor: And the other is a pit bull terrier mix.  Ann Handley: What are their names?  Brittany Lancor: Archie and Pepper.  Ann Handley: Okay. Yeah. This is the information that you're here for, people. This is. Archie, Pepper, and Augie. Just-  Brittany Lancor: Yes ...  Ann Handley: remember that.  Brittany Lancor: Keep that in mind. Yeah. Okay, [00:03:00] so I am actually so excited to talk with you about all of the things related to the keynote.  Ann Handley: Yeah.  Brittany Lancor: So MM&C is Membership Marketing and Communications. And we also have tech as a part of this conference, right? Yes. So the marketing piece of things is so relevant to the audience that's here and the audience at home. So your keynote is about strategic patience in an, in this instant results world. We're so ready for things instantly, right? So for association who are under pressure to do more, and move faster, not always with more resources, how do you decide what should move fast and what is okay to move slower? Ann Handley: Yeah. So that's such a huge issue right now. So here's the deal. So marketing, and I think business in general, has a sort of addiction to speed, right? And it's like we always want to go faster from a customer or from a member standpoint. We always want to move them from, from the first time they hear about us to signing up for us [00:04:00] faster and faster. It's very much a treadmill that we're on. And it's easy to say, "Oh, that's because of AI." AI has just tossed rocket fuel on that impulse. But the truth is that marketing and business has always had this sort of addiction to speed. But you can look at anything that we do. It's like we always think that faster is better. And so my whole philosophy is that with my experience of being in marketing for 25 years, is that faster is not always better, and that I'm challenging the convention that, that we need to always think about the fastest way to do things because sometimes the fastest way is not the best way. Yeah. And so, so in answer to your question, the idea of, you know, when should we move fast and when shouldn't we, that's essentially what my whole keynote unpacked, and it comes down to how, to a couple of things. Number one, how we're measuring marketing, how we're measuring the impact that we have. And I think we need to think about it a little differently 'cause a lot of marketing is measured according to very specific [00:05:00] metrics that look at results, how fast we were able to do something. How did, did people click? Did they download? Did they join? Did they renew? And yeah, all that is important, but there's a lot of other smaller signals before that, that I think if we pay attention to, can start to inform the very question that you asked, like when do we move fast and when do we move slow? To give you a really specific example, one of the things that we don't look at enough in marketing is not the sugar rush metrics of those sort of did they do this or did they do that, or did they act, but before that, like the emotional resonance of it. You know, are we connecting with people who we wanna connect with? Do they feel inspired by us? Not just do they wanna buy, but what kind of language do they use? And so in the keynote today, I shared a framework for how do we move away from those sugar rush metrics of marketing and into something that's more, more substantive that measures the resonance of our programs. And by the way, like I just, I feel a need to mention this because I'm in marketing, but I have a new book coming out [00:06:00] around this topic in February of 2027. It's called ASAP: As Slow As Possible, When to Take the Long Road in a Shortcut World. It's about this very topic of marketing, but also it's broader than that because I think especially where AI is encouraging us to... Not encouraging us, like demanding in a lot of ways that we move faster. I think at the same time- The opposite is also true, right? That there are moments when we need to specifically step away from it, slow ourselves down, and just say, "Okay, here's a situation that matters to us as an organization, or that matters to me as a person." Brittany Lancor: Yeah. There's so much to unpack there, though, too, and I think the other piece of it is there are certain things that are going to take time. Yeah. So, and my background is marketing as well, so all of this resonates so much with me. Yes. There, the s- it's the slow game, right? Yeah. So, you wanna go as fast as possible, but like you had said, you need to figure out how to make a message resonate with an [00:07:00] audience, and sometimes that takes time. Ann Handley: And the thing is, this is not anti-speed. I love speed. I'm addicted to it just as much as anybody else. And so it's not a slowdown all the time, uh, but it's when speed becomes the only point that we get into trouble. And so I think it's that distinction that you make. Yeah, sometimes do more, move faster, but sometimes know when to pull back. And that knowing when, through either permission or recognizing those moments, is essentially what I'm, I've been obsessed with lately. And honestly, I've been thinking about this for ,no joke, 10 years. I first started talking about this at an industry event in 2016. On the main stage I talked about it, and I saw it then as very much like a marketing thing, which is content marketing specifically, around how we're creating content, how we're connecting with others, like how we're thinking about building audiences. I saw it then in a very tiny way, but the more that I started thinking about it, and the more that I started seeing signals from elsewhere, and then AI comes in and throws rocket fuel on this whole situation, and I'm like, "Oh, gosh- Yeah ... [00:08:00] now is the time." So yeah, you could say I've

    35 min

  2. Jun 11

    Milwaukee's Rise as a Meetings and Culinary Destination

    In this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Edition, guest host Sharon Pare of HighRoad Solutions sits down with Leslie Johnson, chief sales officer at Visit Milwaukee, to explore why Milwaukee is gaining attention as a premier destination for meetings and events. Johnson discusses the city's recent growth, driven by the expanded Baird Center, a thriving culinary scene, and major events that have showcased Milwaukee on a national stage. The conversation highlights what sets Milwaukee apart from larger convention cities, including its walkability, affordability, authentic neighborhoods, and collaborative hospitality community. Johnson also shares insights into the city's "Flavor Era" campaign, new entertainment and cultural developments, and the experiences that make Milwaukee memorable for visitors. From lakefront festivals and iconic attractions to local dining recommendations, the episode offers a fresh look at a city that's quickly becoming a favorite among event planners and attendees alike. Check out the video podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwbNMxvH6nc   This episode is sponsored by Visit Milwaukee. Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Sharon Pare: [00:00:00] Welcome to this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partners Series, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Sharon Paré, partnerships director at High Road, a HubSpot agency, co-host of Rethink Association, and your host of this series throughout the year. This episode today is sponsored by Visit Milwaukee. Today, I'm joined by Leslie Johnson, chief sales officer at Visit Milwaukee. Leslie, could you give us the highlight reel and tell us what you're all about before we jump into it?  Leslie Johnson: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Sharon, for having me today. Sure, yeah. I'm Leslie Johnson. I'm the chief sales officer of Visit Milwaukee. I've been there just a little over six and a half years. Prior to getting into the space of the DMO side of the industry, I grew up in the hotel and restaurant industry for my entire career. Started with Hyatt Hotels, then decided to get into the restaurant side of the [00:01:00] business. I worked for Capital Grill restaurants, which has ultimately led me to Milwaukee. I had the ability to open that restaurant in Milwaukee a little over 21 years ago. And then while in Milwaukee, I made a few career changes. I worked for Marcus Hotels and Resorts, where I really leaned into learning more on the hotel operations. I was a general manager, director of sales and marketing, and then also extended that career into the resort side of the business and worked for Geneva National Resort, which is a very predominantly golf-focused organization. And then that's what led me to Visit Milwaukee. So there's my quick, 30-second elevator speech on my career. Sharon Pare: I love your 30-second elevator speech, but there are two things you left out, but I'm gonna do them for you since you didn't- Okay ... put your little accolades in. But since you've been on Visit Milwaukee, in 2022 you were recognized as the Milwaukee Business Journal Women of Influence, as well as most recently in 2025, the [00:02:00] International Association of Exhibitors and Events Outstanding Marketing and Salesperson of the Year. So woo- Good job, Leslie  Leslie Johnson: Thank you. Both of those awards were because of the relationship and partnership that we have within our organization and the marketing team, and the Women of Influence award had a lot to do with how we came out of COVID and the strategies that we put into place to really stand out and really elevate Milwaukee onto a different level than it had ever been elevated on before post-COVID. And then same with, yeah, the IAE award was all of the great things our marketing team and our sales team has done since the expansion of our convention center in 2024. Definitely. Those are team awards.  Sharon Pare: For sure, but you have a little bit of each aspect of that business, and I think that's a lot of the changes that Milwaukee is seeing right now, which I know we're about to dig into. I will say, and you're probably like, "Oh, we hear this too much," but one of my favorite shows growing up was That '70s Show. Okay. So every time I was th- I was thinking about Milwaukee, I keep thinking about that end credit, when [00:03:00] they're like, "Hello, Wisconsin" in the theme song at the beginning. Yeah. That's what I keep thinking about as we were getting into this podcast. But-  Leslie Johnson: But usually it's Laverne & Shirley and Happy Days, so I'm glad that you went '70s Show.  Sharon Pare: Okay, we're changing it up a little bit, right? And I think Milwaukee's changing it up, too. And I know that's what we're gonna talk about today, and that's really the theme around our conversation. I know Milwaukee's really having a moment. I know we're gonna talk about the expanded Baird Center. Some Michelin recognition, what, which I know is always a big deal no matter what city you're in, but especially in somewhere like Milwaukee. And the growing culinary and cultural scene. So Leslie, from your perspective, what do you think is driving that momentum right now? Leslie Johnson: It's so great that Milwaukee is absolutely having this moment. It- it's something that's been in the making for so many years. We're just now seeing the results of a lot of the, you know, the investments that have come together. With the expansion of the convention center, the incredible culinary growth that you just mentioned there, too. And a lot of this comes in tandem [00:04:00] with hosting such large events like the national, with the RNC that we hosted in '24, which seems like forever ago. As well as a couple of industry events, hosting Connect Marketplace. It really helped us step confidently into our identity, and I really think it gave us the ability to give the exposure of our city to people that have would never have had an opportunity or, I don't want to say a reason, there's always a reason to go somewhere, but- Yeah ... oftentimes as we know in our industry, the first time that they're gonna experience a city is through a meeting, through a conference. They had to come for a reason, and then they fell in love with the city, and we heard that over and over again every time that we host any sort of industry event. And so it's great to just see that our name is being recognized nationally in so many other ways, and it's giving us that ability to have Michelin also-  Sharon Pare: Yeah ...  Leslie Johnson: recognize us and say, "You know what? They do have a very strong culinary scene there in Milwaukee, and we need to go see what it's all about."  Sharon Pare: So let's talk about the Michelin stuff now, right? [00:05:00] I think that there is this campaign that Milwaukee's running right now called the Flavor Era, which I think is a really cool concept. Can you share a little bit more about when you say the Flavor Era, tell us a little bit more about that.  Leslie Johnson: Sure. Yeah, so the Flavor Era campaign is really Milwaukee embracing who we are in a bold and confident way, right? When we talk about flavor, we mean everything that gives our city personality, from our culinary scene to our neighborhoods, our festivals, our people, and honestly, the way visitors feel when they're here. We're not trying to just copy another city. We've leaned into what makes us distinctively different, what makes us Milwaukee, and I think that authenticity is really, wow, what today's traveler and meeting planners are looking for. When you think about the culinary scene and look at the culinary scene in Milwaukee, we are not a chain-heavy city. And I, as I talked about earlier, I brought a big chain to downtown Milwaukee, and it was a challenge 'cause Milwaukee is, "No, we don't do chains. We have some amazing creative chefs here in Milwaukee." And Ca- Capital Grille did a great job of [00:06:00] incorporating themselves into the market and really embracing the local culture and the people to build that restaurant to what it is today. We've stayed true to that, and from the culinary side of things, but yeah, it's more of it's like that swagger. We were always that Midwest, like shy, like we're not overconfident. We're not gonna speak loud and proud. We're just gonna be here in the corner, and Milwaukee's completely changed that tune.  Sharon Pare: Yeah. You started getting into this about the flavor, right? Yeah. And you know, how, what it means for meeting planners, and I know a lot of that is centered around the food and some of that, the local experiences, the local culinary experiences. But is there a little bit more to that flavor that the meeting planners and the attendees will love about Milwaukee that you wanna share?  Leslie Johnson: I think for planners and attendees, you know, flavor really means the experience that feels memorable and is rooted in the place instead of the intangibles, right? Like, in Milwaukee, attendees are not just gonna be sitting in a room, meeting room all day. They're gonna be walking around the lakefront between sessions, discovering incredible restaurants, experiencing our festivals [00:07:00] and really interacting with our hospitality community, which is genuinely welcoming individuals. I hear that all of the time from planners of, "We love everything you have about your city. You have all the tangibles," but it's really the people and the way they make you feel and how welcoming they are that they are just so appreciative when they come to our city.  Sharon Pare: That's awesome. And I think that being able to visit a city where it's your first time and you're not really sure what to expect, and finding hospitality that's above and beyond, a lot of the times that's what brings you right back to that city, right?

    30 min

  3. May 28

    Beyond Accessibility: Building Neuroinclusive Association Communities

    In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, guest host Catherine Galli, MPH, digital content writer at the International Coaching Federation, sits down with Wendy-Jo Toyama, MBA, FASAE, CAE, chief executive officer of the American Epilepsy Society, and Megan Henshall, chief impact officer of The Neu Project, to explore findings from the ASAE Foundation and MPI Foundation report, “Enhancing Neuroinclusive Practices in Association.” The conversation examines how associations can create more inclusive environments for neurodivergent staff, members, and event attendees by moving beyond accessibility checklists toward intentional belonging. Toyama and Henshall discuss persistent stigma surrounding neurodivergence, gaps in awareness and implementation across organizations, and the importance of making neuroinclusive efforts visible and actionable. They also share practical strategies such as quiet and resilient spaces at events, inclusive facilitation techniques, clearer accommodation pathways, and ongoing feedback mechanisms, while emphasizing curiosity, co-creation, and intersectionality as essential components of meaningful neuroinclusion. A special thanks to the sponsors and supporters of this important report: Choose Chicago Visit Kansas City MGM Resorts International Discover Puerto Rico Myrtle Beach Convention Center  MPI Foundation   Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/l9p_s7Bz6QU Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Catherine Galli: [00:00:00] Welcome to this month's episode of Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Catherine Galli, digital content writer at the International Coaching Federation. Today, we're excited to welcome Wendy-Jo Toyama, CEO of the American Epilepsy Society, and Megan Henshall, chief impact officer at The Neu Project. Welcome, Wendy-Jo and Megan. Today, we're discussing the joint report through the ASAE Foundation and MPI Foundation, “Enhancing Neuroinclusive Practices in Association,” of course, which was done in partnership with Ferguson and The Neu Project. For those who may be new to the term, let's just dive right in. How do you define neuroinclusion, and why is it especially relevant for associations right now?  Megan Henshall: I can jump in first, and then I would actually love to hear your answer, too. So at The Neu Project, we define neurodiversity as all of us, right? We all have a [00:01:00] brain. Some brains are, quote, unquote, "neurotypical," some brains are neurodivergent, but there are billions of neurotypes and combinations of different ways of thinking and cognitive function. And so neurodiversity really speaks to, to all of us, and I think we're gonna dig into sort of the neurodivergent experience in this conversation today. But it really is important to note that it is speaking to brain health across everyone and how we support people with cognitive functioning, sensory processing, regardless of their neurotype  Wendy-Jo Toyama: Yeah, and then taking it to the next step, neuroinclusion then would be creating that sense of belonging so that everyone can feel seen and heard. So creating an environment that really embraces that neurological difference. And I think it's particularly important because, as Meg said, it cuts across all aspects of associations, and so we have members who are [00:02:00] affected by practices that are either barriers or neuroinclusive. We have staff. So it's really important to build this to be able to be effective and welcoming and create a sense of belonging for everyone. Catherine Galli: Thank you. That's a great explanation, and I think it really centers everybody into the topic today. So in the association industry, this report on neuroinclusion is a first. What are some of the most surprising or unexpected findings that emerged from the data?  Wendy-Jo Toyama: I will just start by saying I think associations have a long way to go on being a welcoming environment around disabilities in general. And so I think what surprised me is that there are some things that are going well or strengths we can build on. Like, I think it was not as bleak as I thought it was maybe going to be. For me, there are places where things are happening that we can build on. So that was one surprise to me.  Megan Henshall: One of the things that jumped out to me when we did the individual interviews, and we [00:03:00] interviewed samples across the entire association population, but in a, a particular interview with a senior leader, so executive, there was a comment made of, "I don't think this affects my particular organization. Everyone in my organization is very high-functioning." And so it's not-  Wendy-Jo Toyama: There's  that as well, yes.  Megan Henshall: I hear it all the time 'cause I travel constantly and talk with a bunch of different types of organizations and in different industries about neurodiversity, neuroinclusion, neuro-informed design, and I hear it a lot. There is still a lot of misunderstanding and stigma around what a neurodivergent person is and how they present. So I think one of the biggest sort of aha moments from any of these conversations, not just the brilliant work that we've done with ASAE and MPI, is that there are neurodivergent people in every rank, and a lot of this is completely invisible. Wendy-Jo Toyama: Yes.  Megan Henshall: And so it's really important to know that, and until that sort of awareness exists in your body, it's really hard to [00:04:00] support it, accommodate and advocate for it.  Wendy-Jo Toyama: Yeah, that was shocking when I read that finding. The other place that I was surprised about, and I think we probably need to dig in a little bit more, is there's a pretty big gap between member perceptions and staff perceptions. That came out, and it will need more exploration, I think.  Megan Henshall: Yeah.  Catherine Galli: It's interesting that you note visibility in there, and Wendy-Jo, you mentioned the connection to inclusive design and making things inclusive for people with different disabilities, and I think you've also tied it into inclusion in other topics within associations. I love that this study really tries to look at all of the different levels and how that fits within members, their experiences at different events, and then also for staff themselves. And you mentioned this gap between staff and members. When you compare those perspectives, [00:05:00] where do you see the biggest disconnects in how neuroinclusion is experienced? Wendy-Jo Toyama: The one area that I noted a disconnect was around communication, in that the scores are very good about creating design the way it's formatted and looks pretty effectively. But where it is-- where there is a gap is in the actual messaging and the content itself. So not being explicit about being inclusive and thoughtful and intentional around neuroinclusion was one big gap  Megan Henshall: This is a constant thing too. What we saw in the ASAE research is no different than most other organizations who are on a journey to try to implement a neuroinclusive practice. I think a lot of times we educate ourselves, we build an awareness, then we start to implement practices or tactics, and yet we don't story tell around those things, and we don't co-create with the people that we're building for. This is a real challenge across [00:06:00] all design practices, not just this one. But I think a lot of times people, especially event people, who are all heart, right? We care so much about others. We're doing these things in service of others, yet we're not talking about the real intention and thought and care behind those things, and we're not asking for feedback and conversation and dialogue around them when we do try them. So it's really hard to learn, and it's really hard to iterate and get better. But it's interesting because staff are like, "No, we're doing the thing." It's really hard to make it as impactful as possible unless we're inviting the people that it's for into the conversation and iterating, co-creating, evolving with them. So it's really interesting to watch how that's always a part of any journey with this work. But it's a really critical part of the journey.  Wendy-Jo Toyama: And Meg, I think when I look at the page that really calls out this gap [00:07:00] between leaders and members, members perceive us being further along than the staff do. And I think it's related to the journey. I think where it is closest is things around being supportive, creating intention. But where the gaps are the largest are like when you put it into action. So I think allocating resources to support neuroinclusive initiatives. There's a huge gap between what members think and what staff think on that front. There's a huge gap between development programs and training around neurodiversity awareness and understanding. There's a gap around actively involving neuroinclusive initiatives into your plan. So I think it's a journey gap, if you will.  Catherine Galli: It's interesting to hear both you, Wendy-Jo, and Meg, you've mentioned that there's this communication gap as well of we're trying to implement these neuroinclusive practices, and yet nobody knows that they're being [00:08:00] implemented, or perhaps members are not able to find the information they need. Can you explain that gap a little bit more?  Megan Henshall: I can speak to our experience working with companies and also my own experience advocating for myself. So I got diagnosed with autism at 40 after my son was diagnosed at three, so this has been a professional journey for me, but also a very personal one. But I think there's a lot of fear around work like this, and there's a lot of hesitation to lean in because what if we get it wrong or what if we try something that actually isn't helpful? And I think

    35 min

  4. May 21

    The Impact of Second-Tier Destinations on Association Meetings and Events

    In this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Edition, guest host Sharon Pare of HighRoad Solutions is joined by Stephanie Alexander-Priakos, director of meetings and conferences at Visit St. Pete-Clearwater; Myha Gallagher, vice president of brand at Future Partners; and Jill Stone, site selection manager with HelmsBriscoe, for a conversation about the evolving meetings and events landscape and the growing appeal of second-tier destinations like St. Pete-Clearwater, Florida. Drawing on industry research and firsthand planning experience, the guests discuss how planners are increasingly prioritizing affordability, accessibility, safety, and unique experiences when selecting destinations, while also navigating rising costs, convention center fatigue, and growing political considerations tied to location decisions. The conversation also explores emerging trends shaping the future of meetings, including the rise of “bleisure” travel, the importance of walkability and outdoor gathering spaces, and how AI is beginning to influence sourcing and attendee personalization. Alexander-Priakos highlights what continues to drive interest in St. Pete-Clearwater, from its award-winning beaches and walkable downtown to expanding meeting infrastructure, wellness-focused properties, and cultural attractions such as the Dalí and Chihuly museums. The episode also examines the role destination organizations play in supporting planners through site visits, logistics, and creating memorable attendee experiences that extend beyond the convention center. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/dQzqtjc_2N0   This episode is sponsored by Visit St. Pete-Clearwater. Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Sharon Pare: [00:00:00] Welcome to this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Series, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Sharon Pare, partnerships director at High Road, a HubSpot agency, and your host of this series throughout the year. This episode is sponsored by Visit St. Pete-Clearwater.  Today, I'm joined by three fantastic guests. First, I wanna introduce Myha Gallagher, vice president of brand at Future Partners, where she helps bring meeting and travel industry research to life through data-driven storytelling and insights. Stephanie Alexander-Priakos, director of meetings and conferences at Visit St. Pete-Clearwater, who's passionate about showcasing the destination's award-winning beaches, culture, hospitality, and group experiences. And Jill Stone, site selection manager with HelmsBriscoe    and co-host of the In the [00:01:00] Genes podcast, who brings more than 35 years of experience helping planners create successful meetings and events throughout the world. Today, we're talking about trends shaping the meetings and events industries, meeting and events industry, and why more planners and associations are looking beyond traditional convention destinations toward places like St. Pete-Clearwater. So I'm gonna put a little disclaimer here, 'cause as a Florida girl born and raised, and I think I mentioned this to you ladies before, I have to say it's been really fun watching the west coast of Florida evolve. 20-plus years ago. I don't wanna date myself here, but in college a lot of us on the east side of Central Florida, we just didn't head west all that often. And now here in the 2020s, 2026, I think St. Pete-Clearwater has become one of the most talked about destinations, right? Meetings, events, food, maybe sports, and maybe just the overall experience. So I'm really excited to dig into all of this today. So Myha, I really wanna kick off your work [00:02:00] with the research, because I think it will frame this entire conversation. So Future Partners, which I know you're very heavily involved with that survey, every year you do a survey of meeting planners to understand the trends that are impacting the meetings industry. So what would you say are some of the top emerging trends as it relates to St. PeteyClearwater?  Myha Gallagher : Yeah, I'm happy to share that, Sharon. Thank you so much for having us on. The first and probably the biggest trend that we see coming out of our latest survey is the rise in interest among meeting planners in sourcing second-tier destinations. In fact, nearly 81% of planners that we surveyed agreed that second-tier destinations are growing in popularity for events, and this is really being driven by the demand for new experiences, a perception that second-tier cities are much safer than first-tier cities, and then cost savings in sourcing smaller destinations as well. And then we're also hearing from planners that their attendees are having [00:03:00] convention center fatigue. Just being stuck in the four concrete walls of a convention center can really drain your energy, and so planners are sharing with us that they are looking for more differentiated experiences and, of course, beautiful scenery to keep their attendees engaged and energized. And then lastly, unfortunately, there's been a considerable rise in agreement among planners that politics are having an effect on the destinations that they're sourcing. In fact, 61% of planners said they have had to reconsider a destination due to controversial issues in the past 12 months alone. And in subsequent conversations with planners, they've shared with us that, of course, they're planning events for large groups, many diverse attendees, and they wanna make sure that the destinations that they select will be safe and welcoming for their groups. And this is an area where St. Pete Clearwater has done a fantastic job crafting each message and ad campaign to [00:04:00] really showcase how welcoming a destination they are.  Sharon Pare: So I wanted to dig in a little bit more. You mentioned this convention center fatigue, this attendee fatigue, right? And like you said, a lot of the attendees say don't wanna be within that traditional sense in those four walls of the convention center now, right? And perhaps we're gonna dig into this a little bit more in the conversation, but can you touch on that a little bit about are planners now looking for destinations where the city itself becomes part of the entire event experience?  Myha Gallagher : Oh, absolutely. I think the traditional sense of conventions and convention centers, especially with younger attendees coming into the mix now with Gen Z, planners are really looking for ways to engage that younger audience, and we know there are different tools that need to be used to activate our younger convention attendees. And one tactic is definitely sourcing more unique spaces, making sure you're in a really [00:05:00] beautiful environment to keep the energy up. And that's not to say convention centers are going away at all. They serve a very specific and vital part of the meetings industry. But for planners who are hosting smaller groups, not citywides, they are definitely looking towards more unconventional and more unique spaces to host their events. Sharon Pare: And to add to that, what right now are planners ... And don't worry, Jill, I'll be getting to you soon. But what are they asking for that maybe three or four years ago they weren't asking for? Is there anything different? Is there a shift that you've seen?  Myha Gallagher : Yeah. The top trend around that, I think it comes as no surprise to anyone in the room, is the use of AI. Many planners are using AI to help with their sourcing decisions, and they're also thinking about ways that AI can be integrated into the meeting environment to [00:06:00] personalize meeting agendas for their attendees. And like every other industry, AI is making its impact, and, and it'll be interesting to see how planners continue to leverage the tool to evolve their meetings. Sharon Pare: I'm gonna bring it over to Jill. And it's really interesting, Miha, to hear about the research side of things because again, I think it's really reshaping how the planners are thinking about some of these things today, and how they're planning their meetings. So Jill, after decades, I don't wanna say many, but after decades working directly, well, it just shows your expertise and your wisdom around really knowing your stuff. But after working with these directors and planners and clients after all this time, are you seeing those shifts play out in real time? And maybe you can tell us about a recent experience you had with Visit St. Pete/Clearwater, and tell us a little bit more about that.  Jill Stone: Sure. Miya took most of my answers, I gotta say. But I got a few left I think that maybe I can share. She's right. Clients are looking for [00:07:00] lots of different things. Mainly, there's, the safety issue's huge. Politics is huge unfortunately. And I've had clients leave a particular hotel or destination, or just totally discount it altogether because of that. And then there's other things that happen, laws that are passed, et cetera, that maybe they can't either agree with or get on board with. But yes, I just had a client at the Wyndham Clearwater Beach, and St. Pete was great. They offer free things for clients, and I'm sure Stephanie's gonna get into all the things that they offer and the things that they can do. But they also help when I'm looking for a destination, and maybe I have forgotten one. They're quick to tell me, "Hey, look at this one, too." And- What I found, especially when I interviewed Stephanie for our podcast, is that they have some great hotels and resorts of all various sizes. So if a client has a large size meeting, let's say 4- or 500 people, that can be done, but also some of the smaller meetings can be at some of the more boutique style hotels or those [00:08:00] kinds of things. But, and one other thing they're looking for is walkability to things, ease of getting to

    34 min

  5. May 14

    From Data to Decisions: Helping Associations Better Understand Members

    In this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Edition, guest host Sharon Pare of HighRoad Solutions sits down with Georgina Donahue, Director of Community Innovation and Strategy at Higher Logic, and Rachel Mace, CAE, Director of IT and Database at the National Pest Management Association, to discuss how associations can better understand members and use that insight to drive smarter strategy. They explain how most organizations have plenty of data but little usable intelligence because systems don’t integrate and staff lack a unified, individual-level view across programs, leading to decisions based on gut instinct and missed warning signs like “silent churners.” The guests distinguish reports from behavioral signals and patterns that predict engagement and renewal, share examples of targeted outreach and pandemic-era webinars boosting recruitment and retention, and discuss using engagement scoring, dashboards, and guidance to act at scale. They recommend auditing where data lives, focusing on high-signal sources, and making incremental improvements rather than chasing perfect data. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/QCQXIDc_cYI   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Sharon Pare: [00:00:00] Welcome to this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Series, an original podcast from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Sharon Pare, Partnerships Director at Highroad, and your host of this series throughout the year. This episode is sponsored by Higher Logic.  Today, we're excited to welcome Georgina Donahue, Director of Community Innovation and Strategy at Higher Logic, along with Rachel Mace, CAE, Director of IT and Database at the National Pest Management Association. Our conversation today is about how associations can better understand their members and turn that insight into smarter strategy. Georgina, Rachel, welcome to the show.  So I think this is something a lot of associations are quietly dealing with, so why don't we jump in? So let's start with something most associations don't want to say out loud. Most of them are making decisions about their members based on very [00:01:00] little actual insight. Why is that, and how common is it?  Georgina Donahue: I think that most associations have more data than they've ever had, right? They have data coming in from all over the place. They have their AMS records, their event history. They have a community platform. They have email opens, right? So they have this huge bulk of data, but the problem is that almost none of it actually talks to each other, so they end up flying blind even though they have this embarrassment of riches, but they can't access it. They don't know which members are thriving and which ones are drifting, which ones are gonna silently churn in a couple months from now. And the problem actually is not just small organizations who don't have the resources to wrangle the data. It's large, sophisticated tech stacks see this problem as well because the data exists, but it's just really siloed  Rachel Mace, CAE: Yeah, I would have to echo that. There's a lot of silos. [00:02:00] Almost every time I start a job at an association or even at a vendor that services associations, the first thing we have to deal with is untangle the glut of information that they have, what they want to actually access and use. And then we also have to talk through, okay, once we decide what we're gonna use, how are we gonna get it there? Integrations remain such a huge problem with most associations. We find that our data lives in completely separate places, and that data doesn't pipe into new places very easily. So that's been a big issue, and it's not the association staff's fault. We are not integration engineers. We are not high-level data scientists. We came here to work in the nonprofit industry and serve our members. We don't have a background in that expertise. So that data mess exists everywhere, large associations or small associations, and we find that more and more association professionals, whether they like to admit it or not, are starting to realize that they can't make decisions based on the gut anymore, which is how we were making decisions.[00:03:00]  I can even recall way back in the 20-teens encountering a situation where an association professional said, "I have an idea. We're gonna use the power of social credit, so to speak, to get people to reach out to each other and encourage them to join the association." But the problem was this professional was working in a trade association environment, so the other member associations or prospect member associations were competitors, and it's very hard to convince a competitor to join the same association as you. But their gut said, "I've seen referral campaigns work throughout the private sector or in professional societies where it's the individual that's the member." So they went with their gut, and that campaign didn't work out, and they thought this is a personal failure. It's not. It's just you didn't have access to the insights and data that you needed to safely feel you could experiment with those types of campaigns in a way that's a bit more controlled with a bit more information behind it  Georgina Donahue: Yeah. I think the other thing that we're seeing in the space is that [00:04:00] as our industry standards for social interaction and for engagement with for-profit brands, for social brands, anything, it rises, right? We're used to having the Netflix algorithm know exactly what show we want to watch next. We're used to logging into a new platform and selecting our content preferences immediately, and then having really sophisticated algorithms understand who we are, know who we are. So at the same time that our association professionals are trying to sort through this, sometimes relying on that gut instinct, the base of members, their standards are rising because they're used to it in other areas, right? And so that gut instinct is becoming less and less effective for them because there was some grace, there was some buffer there, right? And now members, because of what they're experiencing in the consumer space, do not have [00:05:00] that grace that they're willing to offer. They're a little bit more frustrated, and they expect us to know who they are, and they expect us to tailor and segment our message specifically to their journey  Sharon Pare: I wanna dig into the gut instinct part a little bit later, but you, Georgina, talked about something you call the silent churner. Can you explain what that is? Is that like the quiet quitter? I- is that a little bit similar? Tell us a little bit about that. Georgina Donahue: It kind of is. It is. It's the most dangerous member that you have, because everybody has the members that are squeaky wheels, that maybe they're frustrated, maybe there's some dissatisfaction, and they are telling you the areas that they would like to see improvement. While sometimes a sassy email might be difficult to receive in the moment, they are giving you very clear instructions about what they need in order to continue to receive value from the association. The silent churner is the most dangerous. They just go quiet, and then by the time they don't renew, they've already made the decision not to renew three or [00:06:00] four months ago, and they've already been quietly stepping away, so they stop attending events, they stop posting in the community, they stop sending sassy emails asking for their hopes and dreams to be fulfilled, right? And many associations don't find out that a member has churned until the renewal doesn't come through, and it's way too late to make a change because there's already a history of taking a step back and looking for other resources for support.  Rachel Mace, CAE: And this is an area where I feel like associations, their gut actually is probably correct. They already know who's not gonna renew inside. We know that if you're a new member and you don't do enough with us in that first year, you're probably not going to renew. We know if you're an existing member and your engagement falls off, we know you're not going to renew. We know if you're nearing retirement, you're not gonna renew. So we in our guts understand and know who isn't going to renew, but the challenge is identifying them proactively and being able to do something about it six months before that renewal cycle [00:07:00] hits. Because once you get to the renewal cycle, it's a little too late to ask someone to open up their wallet and invest in membership again. So we really need intelligence to tell us, "Hey, I've flagged these bottom 20% of engagers. I need those people to do something, anything." And what they really need, I've always told this to people, is you need to put them in a low barrier to access activity, not something that's gonna require a huge outlay of cash. If I'm new to ASAE, I'm not gonna tell you to go to the ASAE Annual Conference. That's a huge outlay of cash. But I might say, "Hey, why don't you go into ASAE Collaborate and ask a burning question? It's a private, safe space where you can ask something that maybe you wouldn't wanna ask on LinkedIn or publicly." It's a great way to get me engaged, give me something sticky to do, and maybe I will think about that as I renew next year. It's not the big ask, it's the ask that's practical and reasonable for me, a low engager. But we as association professionals, [00:08:00] we know that the low engagers, those are the ones who are gonna silently churn, if anyone  Sharon Pare: I want to unpack this a little bit more, and I know you started to dig into this a little bit too, Rachel, but what's actually causing this? Why can't most associations see the full picture of their members?  Georgina Donahue: I think the reason why it's so endemic across the ent

    42 min

  6. Apr 23

    What geopolitical disruption means for associations

    In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, guest host Gary LaBranche, FASAE, CAE, AAiP, CEO of the Risk and Insurance Management Society, is joined by Francisco Gómez, Founder and CEO of Factum Global, and Pietro Macchiarella, MBA, CAE, Senior Director of Data and Insights at YPO, for a timely conversation on how geopolitical disruption is reshaping the association landscape. They explore the slowdown of trade globalization, increasing travel and visa challenges impacting events and engagement, and the growing tension between taking action and staying silent as political issues intersect with mission-driven work. The discussion emphasizes the importance of clear, grounded communication with boards, along with practical strategies like scenario planning and tabletop exercises to prepare for uncertainty. The group also examines how associations can stay agile without compromising their core mission, including the role of AI in monitoring trusted information sources and the value of incorporating diverse global perspectives. As the conversation unfolds, they point to a more fragmented, multipolar world, rising cyber and data risks, and evolving member expectations—offering insight into how association leaders can navigate what comes next. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/hc8BmpdGDhw   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Gary LaBranche, FASAE, CAE, AAiP: [00:00:00] Welcome to this month's episode of Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Gary LaBranche, Chief Executive Officer of RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society. I am delighted to be joined on this podcast with Francisco Gómez, founder and CEO of Factum Global, a boutique consulting firm specializing in international expansion, market analysis, and strategic growth. Also, joining us is Pietro Macchiarella, senior director, data and Insights at YPO, the world's largest community of chief executives that come together to become better leaders and better people. I've said a little bit about each of you, but if you could tell us a little bit more, starting with you, Francisco. Francisco Gómez: Thank you, Gary. Pleasure to be here with you and Pietro. As you said, I founded Factum Global, a firm that [00:01:00] specializes in helping both for-profit companies as well as associations and nonprofits expanding internationally. We focus on truly helping organizations understand where to go, how to do it, and how to sustain that growth, and doing this for the last 20 years or so, and delighted to be here. Gary LaBranche, FASAE, CAE, AAiP: Excellent, Pietro.  Pietro Macchiarella, MBA, CAE: Thank you Gary. I'm Pietro. Good to be here with both of you. As you said, Gary, I work for YPO, which is the largest organization of CEOs. We have 37,000 member members in hundred 40 countries, so as international as it gets. And myself, I am very international. I've grown up in Europe, I've lived in three different countries in Europe and then moved to the US about 20 years ago. I'm also the chair of the ASAE International Association Advisory Council, which right now is a great place to be because we are the center of, of the storm in a way, supporting associations in their international experience or trying to international.[00:02:00]  Gary LaBranche, FASAE, CAE, AAiP: Fantastic. Both of you obviously have a tremendous non-North American experience, and I'm just curious. Currently the world is experiencing what we, in the risk management community, call geopolitical disruption, which is a fancy way of saying chaos is abounding in the our current world today and associations and corporations. Consumers and people in business have to try to navigate all of that, and that's uncharted territory to say the least. Pietro is, your group is international as it gets. What does geopolitical disruption mean? How are you in seeing it impact YPO?  Pietro Macchiarella, MBA, CAE: So first of all, disclaimer from the lawyers: These are my personal opinions and not the ones of my employer. I will say the one, some of the assumptions that we are taking for granted up until now are gone. If you look at it as being a constant. Since the, at least the 1990s, uh, I think the, [00:03:00] there is an index, I think it's the World Bank has an index that shows the trade ness where you look basically at the imports and export globally. And you divided by the, the GDP, the global GDP and the index has been growing like crazy. In fact, I think it's being twice as fast as, as a global GDP growth in the past 20 years. And so. We went from, again, trade being about 30% of global GDP to being 60% or more. And then suddenly this has come to a halt. Everything is being questioned again. And so obviously there's a, this has an impact on any membership organization. In fact, I feel like we are actually more impacted than our members. Uh, because if you think about the, the true political uncertainty affects the, the members themselves. So their companies, if you're a trade organization or in our case a business organization affects the way you operate the, the association and also affects all the members interact with each other. So it's a, it's a triple head and [00:04:00] obviously that that impacts everything that you do. At the same time, I'm the eternal optimist and one thing that I do say is the problems are often opportunities and if very often we are. Nice to have for members, all of us in the association space. But when there is a crisis, we become actually a must have if we are relevant and if we are relevant to what they need at the moment. So I do think that right now what I see is actually a bigger relevance for organizations like ours because we are, we are helping members when they need us.  Gary LaBranche, FASAE, CAE, AAiP: That's interesting. So if you are truly valuable, uh, and relevant, you'll be more valuable and relevant in times of poly crisis or chaos, or when the world is not going according to what we had thought it would. Francisco respond to that. Are you seeing that in your practice?  Francisco Gómez: Yes, of course. I do think that the main thing, however, is that for associations, your political disruption is truly no longer [00:05:00] something that is happening out there. I think we used to see that as a side thing where we're gonna keep this in scenario planning and we're gonna think about the what ifs, but it was not as real and it is now showing up in a very practical ways. When you think about travel decisions, event planning, member expectations, partner relationships, sanctions, they are privacy concerns. Reputation, right? So it's all over the place. And what makes it especially difficult is that associations have traditionally tried to stay away from politics. But today I think that this is much harder because there is risk not only in taking action, but also in not taking action. And that creates tension because associations want to focus on policy and not politics, but in a lot of cases it are now intertwined. So the real challenge is not just whether to speak. But how do we speak in a way that is consistent with mission and values? In the past, many associations tried to stay away and above [00:06:00] politics, but today's silence can be read as a statement too, right? So that's something that I think most associations are wrestling with right now.  Gary LaBranche, FASAE, CAE, AAiP: So you touched on two, I think, very important pieces there. One. One is that external issues really are internal, even down to when and how we travel. That's a pretty internal, pretty internal issue. And then secondly, the whole idea that you, by not engaging, you are saying something by not speaking out, by not engaging with the chaotic world as it is that can be read, can be viewed as negatively as if you said something. And I think that's especially true the more. That the association presents to the world, the more engaged with the world. So I was thinking as you were talking, I was thinking for RIMS, one of the ways that we primarily relate to the world is through our certification program, which is growing more rapidly outside of North America than inside North America. Uh, but also through our convention, which we call Risk World, we bring about [00:07:00] 11,000 people together every year. And Risk World just isn't an educational conference. It's a commercial marketplace. It is the world's largest commercial insurance B2B marketplace, and people from all over the world come there to place their insurance, to buy insurance, the commercial insurance. So it's actually a very critical part of the whole value proposition to the commercial insurance world. But this year we're seeing a definite impact on some people not being able to get. A visas or not being able to get visas in time to come to the convention in, in Chicago, uh, in Philadelphia also, one of our students, we student groups, we have a, with our partner, Spencer Educational Foundation, we provide a platform for, uh, international student competition in risk management and one of the universities from Africa. I'm not able to get a visa so far. So we're trying to work through those issues, but this, this constant chaos that we're seeing, the changes [00:08:00] of rules, regulations, consumer preference in, in the case of Canada, we're also seeing significant pullback from our Canadian friends who just don't want to deal with the American economy right now. How are you communicating those kinds of risks to your stakeholders, to your leaders and board members and others that are important to your organizations?  Pietro Macchiarella, MBA, CAE: So I think that there is a difference between maybe concern and panic, and I think panic happens when there's no plan. My, my opinion of that's when leadership to step in, when, particularly when talki

    31 min

  7. Mar 26

    Why Associations Must Rethink Learning and Community Together

    In this episode of Associations NOW Presents: Industry Partner Edition, guest host Sharon Pare of HighRoad Solutions sits down with Kurt Heikkinen, CEO of Forj, to explore how to connect learning, community, and member value into one cohesive experience. Drawing on member experience research, Kurt highlights a core insight—members join and stay for two primary reasons: to learn and to connect with peers. When those experiences are separated, engagement suffers. The conversation unpacks how expectations are shifting, particularly among early-career professionals who expect personalized, always-on access to content and community, not just isolated touchpoints like annual events or standalone courses. Kurt makes the case for rethinking how associations deliver value—moving away from fragmented systems toward unified, AI-enabled platforms that bring learning and community together. He shares real-world results from EcoAmerica and offers a clear takeaway for association leaders: start with the member experience, break down internal silos, and design for connection, not just content. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/J0QxOGuP6Ks   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript   Sharon Pare: [00:00:00] Welcome to Association NOW Presents: Industry Partner Series, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Sharon Pare, director of Partnerships at High Road Solutions, a HubSpot Solutions and implementation partner, and your host of this series throughout the year. Today, we're exploring how associations think about learning and how that connects to renewal. I'm joined by Kurt Heikkinen. Kurt has built and exited multiple SaaS companies, led mergers and acquisitions, and raised more than $150 million in venture and private equity capital. He's helped companies grow from startup to over $50 million in recurring revenue, and today he's focused on helping associations and organizations rethink how they serve and engage their members. Kurt, welcome  Kurt Heikkinen: Sharon. Thanks so much. Excited to spend this half hour with you and the audience.  Sharon Pare: Absolutely, [00:01:00] and thank you so much, Kurt. You've spent much of your career building companies in fast moving markets. I'm curious what drew you to the association space?  Kurt Heikkinen: Yeah, great question, Sharon. As I entered the space and started to learn more about the mission driven nature of these organizations, I was just compelled to help. After meeting with dozens and dozens of executives, I heard both. Their passion and mission, but also the challenges they face. And so after a couple decades serving the corporate space, I felt compelled to jump in and really help leaders of mission-driven organizations realize their full potential.  Sharon Pare: Why don't we jump into it? So when I hear association leaders talk about value, connection, and education, it always comes up. I think renewal conversations are still happening everywhere, and sometimes I think about it like Netflix versus Instagram, right? Netflix gives you a huge library of content and [00:02:00] then Instagram keeps you coming back for more because it feels dynamic. It feels social, even though I think the influencer community might be dying a little bit. So I'm wondering if associations sometimes operate more like a content library than a living network. So my question for you, Kurtin, from where you sit, what truly keeps members coming back year after year and what do associations tend to overestimate? Kurt Heikkinen: It's a really great question, and I think you can see some of the parallels from an experience standpoint between Netflix and Instagram. But when you think about the core of associations, many of them view themselves as the trusted place, the trusted resource for their members, as some describe themselves as that community of practice. Their members truly care. They want a sense of belonging and they want a place where they can not only progress in their career, but share and give back. And so we do research every year. We call it the state of member [00:03:00] experience, a research report, and we launch it every year at the annual ASAE annual event in August. And for the last five years, the prevailing answer to the question, why do you join and why do you stay, has been. One for the peer-to-peer connections and two for the ongoing learning. And so that is at the core of the member value proposition. Do I belong and can I connect with peers like me? And is this an environment and a place where I can continue to learn and grow? And so those are the key factors that drive engagement and ultimately retention.  Sharon Pare: If learning and community are structured separately, what does that do to the member experience?  Kurt Heikkinen: Yeah, it creates a fractured and siloed experience. When you think about our own experience as consumers, when we're interacting with a company or a product, and the experience is different from the time we bought it to the [00:04:00] time perhaps we're asking for service. It becomes frustrating if they don't know us and they don't demonstrate that they understand who we are and what our needs are from one step to the next. And so having those experiences separate can only lead to frustration, and that's what we hear over and over again. So what's the difference? What's the answer? An experience that is seamless, that's personalized, that's unified, where the member, the learner, feels like you know them throughout every step of the journey.  Sharon Pare: So are you saying that one of the shifts that you're seeing is mostly generational in how they're learning now?  Kurt Heikkinen: I think by far one of the shifts is the expectations of early career members. You think about the expectations of early career members, the concept of membership is even foreign to them. They've grown up in an on demand consumption, subscription based world. That's their world. Whether that's in academia or whether that's from an entertainment standpoint. [00:05:00] You cited Netflix earlier, so that is one of the major shifts. But for all of us, regardless of what generation you're in, where you are in your career. The last 10 years has informed our own expectations regarding experience and what does a modern experience look like, and personalization is at the core of that. If we as consumers, let's just separate learning and look more broadly in our everyday life as consumers, if we don't experience something that's fast and easy and relevant where the entity we're interacting with. The service provider or the product company doesn't know us and doesn't demonstrate they know us and understand our needs immediately and guide our experience, we opt out. And that's regardless of age. Anyone who has been using a mobile device for the last several years has experienced that and now knows what good looks like. But furthermore, back to career [00:06:00] stages, we've also studied a lot. What are the attitudes, behaviors, and beliefs of professionals by stage. There are expectations that early career members have. They wanna know immediately, do I belong here? Can I connect with peers like me who have solved and encountered some of the things that I'm. Experiencing early in my career for those individuals mid-career, they wanna know how can they take the next step in their career? How can they climb the ladder? How can they advance in their domain? Um, they might be considering a pivot. And how will this community help them learn and grow vanguard? And many times for those latent career they wanna give back. They wanna share their wisdom and their expertise from the last two or three or four decades, and they want a forum, a learning community to do that. So when learning and community aren't together, when it's fractured and siloed, you miss out on so many opportunities to engage your learners, your professionals, your members that meet them where [00:07:00] they are, and truly tap in the power of community. Sharon Pare: So it sounds like continuity may matter more than isolated moments, and having these two together really matters more. So I think it raises a bigger question about how learning actually works. And you've already mentioned that adults and different generations don't learn in isolated events. It tends to happen over time, conversation in context. Again, as you mentioned, a lot of this education is still structured around single programs. What do you think leaders most often misunderstand about learning value is actually created today?  Kurt Heikkinen: Yeah, it's interesting, Sharon, because we meet with hundreds of clients every year and prospective clients, and I think intuitively they understand. That the learning paradigm has shifted. I think they do understand that it is more social in nature. It needs to be more on demand. Micro learning needs to become a part of this, that individuals don't have the time or energy [00:08:00] and to sit down and take hours of courses by themselves. They are looking for that connectedness, but some of them are struggling to understand how to make that happen or they're. Largely dependent on a couple primary sources of revenue for their organization. A single annual conference, a couple main courses that drive 60 or 70% of their revenue that consumes their time and energy every year. That prevents them from moving beyond and innovating beyond that, and most often and why organizations come to Forj is because the technology they're using is holding them back or experience how today's technology better enables that breakthrough. Better supports that type of more dynamic social cohort based learning through the concept of a learning community as opposed to isolation. And there's still a place. There's still a place of course, for so many of these courses that lead [00:09:

    27 min

  8. Mar 16

    Examining the Changing Legal Landscape for Associations

    In this episode of Associations NOW Presents, guest host Tom Arend, Jr., Esq., CAE, CEO of the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, speaks with Jerry Jacobs, Esq., partner at Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP, about three major issues facing associations today: artificial intelligence, DEI, and misconduct at events. They explore why many organizations are adopting AI cautiously and the importance of guardrails, institutional licenses, and transparency when meetings are recorded or summarized. Jacobs also discusses legal considerations around DEI programs amid increasing scrutiny and evolving interpretations of civil rights law. The conversation concludes with a look at rising concerns around inappropriate behavior at events and why clear policies and enforceable codes of conduct are essential for associations. Check out the video podcast here: https://youtu.be/6YBt9suvV2U   Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.   Transcript Tom Arend, Jr., Esq., CAE: [00:00:00] Welcome to this month's episode of Associations NOW Presents, an original podcast series from the American Society of Association Executives. I'm Tom Arend, CEO of the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons. Prior to serving as CEO, I was also general counsel of a large association. And prior to that, I served as a practitioner in the association law space in Washington DC. Joining us today, we're excited to welcome Jerry Jacobs. Jerry is a partner at the firm of Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pitman, LLP. Jerry has for decades been recognized as the dean of the association law world, both in Washington and across the country. He is a frequent commentator, author, contributor, and speaker on association law topics, and recently came out with the seventh edition of the Bible of association law, the Association Law Handbook. Welcome Jerry.  Jerry Jacobs, Esq.: Hi, Tom.  Tom Arend, Jr., Esq., CAE: So there's a lot going on in the [00:01:00] world right now, but we're gonna try and focus primarily on three topics. First topic has to do with the use of artificial intelligence in associations and by associations. Then we'll move on to the impact of diversity, equity, inclusion in associations, and particularly the recent changes in the federal law and the sort of broader federal posture with respect to the use of diversity, equity, inclusion in governance and decision making by associations. Finally we’ll turn to another topic that causes a lot of angst among association executives, which is bad behavior among staff, among members, and among others in the association space, and how associations can most effectively deal with those situations. So in the area of artificial intelligence, actually, particularly today, here we are. In the third week in February, 2026, and we're [00:02:00] reading today, yesterday, over the weekend, doom and gloom scenarios around the use of AI from a number of consulting firm newsletters and other experts in the field, and AI is clearly becoming a very complex, difficult issue for everyone to deal with. How in particular do you see artificial intelligence impacting associations, Jerry? Jerry Jacobs, Esq.: It's gonna affect us all sooner than later, from everything that I can understand. Last year we had a role in the transition of what's arguably the leading AI company in the United States and the world Open AI from its historic founding as a public charity to more emphasis on a taxable business corporation. And I had a chance to look on the inside of the workings of a large AI company. And what I learned is that it's being utilized with new creativity and new efficiency in different ways by different [00:03:00] users. The association community, almost by definition, is a person-to-person field. There's advocacy, which is often one-on-one. There's professional education that's often very personalized. There are communications networking that's always personal, and so I'm wondering whether AI is moving more slowly into the association community than elsewhere because of the personalization required to be successful in association management. But we're seeing association clients use it effectively for preparing content, for communications, for summarizing meeting discourse, for cleaning or mining long lists of members, prospects, vendors, et cetera. And we've seen some. Fairly creative, but so far very limited uses by comparison as lawyers in the [00:04:00] law firm community, we're going headlong in use of ai and I'm not seeing that as often among associations.  Tom Arend, Jr., Esq., CAE: Yeah, I would agree with that. What I've seen both personally within the association that I work for and some of my other colleagues experiences in the last, I would say three to four years, is a, a slightly slower adoption than in some other spaces in the commercial area. But I do see that accelerating significantly, and I see both use cases internal to operations and management of an association, almost similar to any other large organization and then external use cases. And maybe we can talk about those. I think in both cases, it's important at the beginning to set some guardrails, to set some policies and procedures, some very clear expectations about how it's going to be used by your internal staff. For example, in our case, initially, I recall we had different groups [00:05:00] using different platforms. We'd have one, the marketing group, for example, maybe using anthropic, and you'd have the finance folks using ChatGPT, and you'd have the comms people using something else. And we ultimately got to a space where we said, hey, we've got to figure out, first of all, a uniform tool that we're all gonna use, that we all can become conversant on. And then importantly, we'll all have a corporate license for and we can use appropriately. And that ideally will help us better integrate what we're doing across the organization in ai. And is that, what are some of your thoughts on setting up those appropriate?  Jerry Jacobs, Esq.: That actually makes sense. You're providing computers and in many cases, ipads and phones to employees. So you have every right to restrict what apps and software are used on those machines. And many organizations are picking one or two buying institutional licenses, which will sometimes allow confidentiality of use of these tools, which is a, [00:06:00] a big advantage. And yes, everybody is struggling with “What are our policies going to be?” A continuing question is what about members who wanna use AI to summarize meetings they attend? Yeah. Whether governance meetings or educational content meetings. I would think that in our experience so far, we see more associations come down on the side of denying and forbidding politely and diplomatically use of meeting summary AI tools by attendees simply. Because it's better to have one official record of what happened, especially at governance meetings. But I really appreciate that the exigency of membership relations, you may not be able to hold out. The members may just demand it. And I have seen some pretty darn good summaries of meetings produced by these programs. Tom Arend, Jr., Esq., CAE: Yeah, that's an interesting case. And that's exactly a case [00:07:00] that you can compare to. This is the new technology we have. In some ways, the outcome of that technology is not a lot different in kind than the outcome. Twenty years ago we said, oh, can we record this meeting? Can we do an audio recording of this meeting? And for the reasons you articulated well, we don't necessarily wanna have, we don't wanna killl the debate among board members or committees or what have you, by them thinking, oh, some somebody's gonna look at, listen to this in three weeks or three months, and maybe I misspoke and I didn't correct it. And to your point, we want the minutes to be the official record. And so that, my recollection is the universal recommendation would be no, you shouldn't record meetings as a general rule now. I agree with you and just I see the progression that we've taken and some of my other colleagues and other associations, almost every call I'm on it. We just automatically record it. And the governance people, the staff people use that summary to then [00:08:00] create their own summary and then a set of minutes and it's just become so easy, not error free, to your point, it's always critical to review, have a human. Review everything, but it's hard to stand in the way of that progress from a governance entity. Jerry Jacobs, Esq.: That's absolutely correct. And one final point, if we're gonna move on to another subject, we can't remind users often enough that right now AI's programs all hallucinate, they all make up. And, and so to develop something based just on AI and send it out to the members and find that a key fact or even an insignificant fact is just incorrect, will embarrass the association. And so you've got to check the facts, although we are always surprised with the ability of AI programs to come up with things that we hadn't thought of or data points that we didn't know existed. But very often, not every once in a while, very often they make them [00:09:00] up and so you have to be sure and double check them all. Tom Arend, Jr., Esq., CAE: Yeah. Jerry, what about to this point? Everyone's on a Zoom meeting now, even when you are in person infrequently now, andwe all know it's being recorded by AI and will be used later. This notion of transparency around when we're using AI and then disclaimers to that effect.  Jerry Jacobs, Esq.: I think certainly when it's happening at a meeting, the attendees have a right to know that someone is recording what they're saying or proposing or objecting to. So by all means, I think just membership relations again dictates transparency and openness, even to the point, does anybody object if we use this program in order to record and summarize this event

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An original podcast from the American Society of Association Executives where we explore key topics relevant to association professionals, discuss the challenges and opportunities in the field today, and highlight the significant impact associations have on the economy, the U.S., and the world.

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