Been There Got Out Podcast

Chris & Lisa
  • 4.5 (26)
  • SELF-IMPROVEMENT
  • UPDATED SEMIWEEKLY

Chris and Lisa of BeenThereGotOut.com both survived toxic marriages with narcissistic partners and the legal and co-parenting nightmares that go hand-in-hand with all of that.If you are struggling in a high-conflict relationship, divorce, custody battle, or co-parenting hell which requires PERSONALIZED attention, let us HOLD YOUR HAND along the way, while providing EXPERT, STRATEGIC guidance based on one's years of success (representing myself in court!), coupled with the other's High Conflict Divorce Coach certification.Our podcast features interviews with lawyers, therapists, co-parenting coordinators, guardians ad litem, and other subject matter experts, as well as other content, all with one goal in mind: Let us teach you how to HELP YOURSELF!

  1. 1D AGO

    How to Stop Being Terrified of Family Court with Dr. Ben Garber

    🎯 "I don't know what to expect — and that terrifies me." If that's where you are right now, this conversation was made for you. Dr. Benjamin Garber is a New Hampshire-licensed psychologist, former therapist of 30 years, custody evaluator, and legal consultant who has spent two years building one of the most practical resources available to family court litigants: DiffuseDivorce.com, a free library of advance orientation programs to prepare you for every stage of the family court process. His central insight? The fear, overwhelm, and anxiety that fills your world when you step into family court isn't just painful — it is actively working against you. When your "anxiety balloon" is full, you can't think flexibly, communicate clearly, or show a judge and evaluator who you really are. The research-backed solution is called advance orientation: giving yourself a roadmap before you engage with a process, so you can show up as yourself instead of a terrified version of yourself. This concept, proven in medicine, dentistry, psychiatry, and now being applied to family law, is the foundation of everything Lisa and Chris teach at Been There Got Out. And in this conversation, Ben explains exactly why it works and where to get it for free. 💡 WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: ✅ What "advance orientation" is and why it's backed by 55+ years of research across medicine, dentistry, and psychiatry ✅ Why your anxiety is actually hurting your custody case — and the science behind why ✅ How judges and evaluators are watching for "ecological validity" — are they seeing the real you? ✅ The single biggest misconception parents have about family court (and why it destroys cases) ✅ Why diagnosis (narcissism, bipolar, etc.) matters far less than dynamic in custody cases ✅ What Ben published that made his colleagues so angry they tried to submit a mass rebuttal ✅ Why family law doesn't belong in our court system — and what Ben thinks should replace it ✅ The 3 C's of successful co-parenting: Communication, Consistency, and Cooperation ✅ Why it's more important to fight for your kids than to fight with them ✅ Where to find free advance orientation programs for every stage of your case 📘 DiffuseDivorce.com — Free advance orientation programs for family court litigants 📘 FamilyLawConsulting.org — Ben's publications, consulting services, and book 📖 Holding Tight, Letting Go — Ben's book on child development and autonomy 📖 Twisted Allies — Ben's novel about family law work #FamilyCourtHelp #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #AdvanceOrientation #CustodyEvaluation #ParentalAlienation #CoParenting #DivorceSupport #NarcissisticAbuse #BeenThereGotOut

    50 min

  2. 4D AGO

    How to Stay Calm During Custody Exchanges with Dr. Andrea DePetris

    If seeing your ex, even from across a parking lot, sends your body into overdrive, you're not overreacting. You're experiencing a trauma response. And it has a name. In this episode, Lisa sits down with Dr. Andrea DePetris, a clinical psychologist at Yale School of Medicine and private practice therapist, for a conversation that will genuinely change how you understand yourself in these moments. We start with something that gets thrown around a lot - the word "trigger" - and Dr. DePetris explains precisely what it means in a trauma context: a stimulus that activates your trauma memory network and makes your brain and body feel like the danger is happening right now. Not overreaction. Biology. From there, we dig into the window of tolerance, a concept developed by psychiatrist Dan Siegel that describes the range in which we can think clearly, connect with our kids, and respond (rather than react) to what's in front of us. Trauma narrows that window. Chronic high-conflict divorce narrows it even further. And when something pushes us outside that window, our nervous system responds in one of two ways: it speeds everything up (hyperarousal: fast talking, heat in the body, urgency, needing to win), or it slows everything down (hypoarousal: going quiet, shrinking, emotional flatness, checking out). Both responses make complete sense. Both were designed to protect you. And both can absolutely get in the way of the parent you want to be in that moment.he good news (and Dr. DePetris is practical and clear about this) is that these patterns are learnable and changeable. In this conversation, she walks you through exactly what to do in the moment and how to build the self-regulation muscle when you're not activated, so it's available to you when you are. What you'll take away from this episode: → The clinical definition of a trigger — and why trigger warnings may not work the way we think → How to recognize whether you tend toward hyperarousal or hypoarousal when you encounter your ex → The single best thing to do in any activation moment (spoiler: it's a pause — but Dr. DePetris shows you exactly what that looks like for each response type) → A breathing technique you can practice with your children right now: breathe in like you're smelling flowers, exhale long like you're blowing out birthday candles → The '5 neutral things' grounding exercise and why naming them moves you from feeling to observation → Why stepping away isn't avoiding — it's modeling self-regulation for your kids → How to repair with your children after a hard moment, and why kids don't need perfect parents — they need present ones Dr. Andrea DePetris is a clinical psychologist at Yale School of Medicine and works with adults in private practice. She specializes in helping people understand the internal patterns — shaped by early life and relationship history — that drive how they feel and respond, and supports them in updating those patterns to feel more integrated and at peace. #CoParenting #HighConflictDivorce #WindowOfTolerance #Triggers #EmotionalRegulation #NarcissisticEx #CustodyExchange #TraumaResponse #HighConflictCoParenting #ParentalAlienation #DivorceRecovery #ToxicEx #GroundingTechniques #MentalHealth #BeenThereGotOut

    28 min

  3. APR 10

    SB 1192: How California Is Fighting Post-Separation Legal Abuse

    If your ex keeps dragging you back to court - filing motion after motion just to control, harass, and drain you, you already know how the legal system can become the abuser's most powerful weapon. What you might not know is that California is on the verge of changing that. In this episode, Lisa sits down with Monique, one of BTGO's own success stories. After years of navigating the family court system herself, Monique went to law school and founded the Women's Healing Resource Clinic SoCal, a grassroots domestic violence advocacy organization. And she's here to break down a bill that has us genuinely excited: California Senate Bill 1192, known as the RECLAIM Act. This legislation is designed specifically to address post-separation abuse through vexatious litigation — the pattern of filing frivolous court motions not because the filer expects to win, but because being in court means being close to you. It means draining your money, disrupting your work, and reminding you who still holds power over your life. Here's what SB 1192 would actually do, in plain language: - The three-part framework of SB 1192: how to qualify as a victim of litigation abuse, what the affidavit process looks like, and what protections kick in once you do. - Who can write your affidavit: certified domestic violence advocates with 40 hours of DV training under California Evidence Code 1037.1, as well as mental health professionals who know your case. - What "frivolous litigation" actually means under the law, and why the bill's updated language (removing the word "abusive" and leaving just "frivolous") may actually make it easier for survivors to qualify. - The most stunning piece: if approved, all future court filing fees could be waived, and you may be entitled to legal representation at no charge. - How to support the bill right now, including how to contact Senator Rubio's office, how to share your survivor story in a way that makes the most impact, and what Lisa learned from giving live testimony for Connecticut's Jennifer's Law. - What the national coercive control law landscape looks like, from California to Connecticut to Utah to the UK, and how to push for similar legislation in your own state. - The role of domestic violence resource centers in your area (and why so many survivors never think to call them). PLUS: Monique shares her incredible personal journey — from being a client of Lisa and Chris's coaching practice, to representing just 2% of Latina women who go on to become attorneys. Her story is a powerful reminder that people do rebuild, and that sometimes, that rebuilt life becomes a force for change. ADVOCATE FOR SB 1192: - Contact Senator Susan Rubio's office: sd22.senate.ca.gov - Co-sponsor: Family Violence Appellate Project (Oakland, CA)

    32 min

  4. APR 6

    Why 14 is the Most Dangerous Age for Parental Alienation: a Psychologist Explains

    What if the moment your child starts pulling away isn't a sign of failure, but the beginning of a chapter you can still write? Dr. Gloria Vanderhorst has spent 50 years as a psychologist inside divorce cases, family courts, and the offices of struggling parents. What she's learned might change the way you see everything. In this powerful conversation, Lisa sits down with Dr. Vanderhorst to explore the real psychology behind parental alienation - how it starts, why children pull away, what's actually happening inside your child's developing mind, and what you can do right now to protect and rebuild your relationship with them. Dr. Vanderhorst introduces a framework that most parents have never heard: divorce doesn't just disrupt your child's relationship with you, it disrupts their sense of place and their attachment to the world itself. When children lose two of their three core attachments simultaneously, their behavior shifts in ways that look like alienation but are rooted in survival. Understanding this changes everything. She also offers a deeply compassionate reframe for parents whose children are actively refusing contact: treat your child like a traumatized rescue animal who needs to earn safety at their own pace, not a family member who owes you time. Set your ego aside. Give them space. Stay consistent. That patience, she explains, is what eventually brings children back - and she has decades of cases to prove it. If your relationship with your child has been damaged by a toxic co-parent, this conversation gives you both the psychological foundation for understanding what's happening and the practical strategies for responding with patience, dignity, and hope. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE ✅ Why divorce disrupts a child's three core attachments — and what that means for their behavior ✅ The subtle, nonverbal ways alienation happens without any spoken words ✅ How to talk about your ex's traits in ways that help your child without harming yourself ✅ What to do when your child's alienation is getting worse, not better ✅ Why age 14 is the most critical and dangerous period for refusal behavior ✅ The 'letter strategy' that kept one father connected across years of complete estrangement — and resulted in every one of his children returning ✅ How to survive the shame and social isolation that comes with being a rejected parent ✅ A simple feelings vocabulary tool that can help you and your children rebuild emotional connection ABOUT DR. GLORIA VANDERHORST Dr. Gloria Vanderhorst is a licensed psychologist with 50 years of clinical experience spanning the full human lifespan. She began her practice with preschool children and has worked with individuals and families through every stage of development. Dr. Vanderhorst has extensive experience in divorce-related psychological work, including court testimony, child and adult evaluations, and post-divorce parenting support. Her website offers a range of downloadable resources, including her highly regarded feelings vocabulary sheet. Website: www.drgvanderhorst.com

    45 min

  5. APR 2

    What Really Happens When CPS Investigates You During a Custody Battle

    What CPS Is Actually Looking For When They Knock on Your Door When Child Protective Services shows up during a high-conflict divorce or custody battle, the fear can be overwhelming. You might be terrified of losing your children, furious at your ex for weaponizing the system, and completely in the dark about what happens next. In this episode, Lisa sits down with Sara Vandenberg, a trauma psychotherapist and former CPS caseworker in Texas, for one of the most practical, fear-reducing conversations we've ever had about what CPS investigations actually look like from the inside. Here's what Sara wants you to know before anything else: about 6-7 million children are investigated by CPS each year in the United States. Only about 5% are ever removed from the home. CPS is not a custody agency, and they cannot take your children and give them to your ex. That's not how the system works. Sara pulls back the curtain on the risk-versus-danger framework that CPS workers use when they walk into your home. Risk is the deer crossing sign on the road at night. Danger is the deer standing in the middle of the road. CPS is concerned with danger, not with judging you as a parent. She also shares something critical that surprises most parents: CPS is not looking to see if you are a good or bad parent. They are looking to see if your child is safe. Understanding this distinction can completely change how you approach a CPS investigation and how the investigator perceives you. 🎯 In This Episode, You'll Learn: - Why CPS cannot and will not award custody to your ex, no matter what they tell you - The exact statistics that should calm your immediate panic (and why removal is far rarer than you think) - What CPS workers are actually looking for when they enter your home - The surprising reason documenting your CHILD's behavior matters more than documenting your ex's - How your emotional reaction in the first minutes of a CPS visit can shape the entire investigation - What to do if your child may be exposed to drugs - and the hair follicle testing fact that'll shock you - How to prepare your child for a caseworker interview without it looking like coaching - What an "unfounded" finding means and how to use it strategically in court - The most powerful thing you can tell the caseworker if you have a trusted family member who could help - How repeated unfounded CPS calls by your ex can actually damage THEIR credibility 📚 About Sara Vandenberg: Sara Vandenberg is a trauma professional, psychotherapist, and the founder of Tonalli Counseling Services. She specializes in familial sexual abuse, incest, and complex betrayal trauma. Before her career as a therapist, Sara worked as a CPS caseworker in Texas, giving her a rare dual perspective on child welfare that few practitioners can offer. Her upcoming book, "Choosing to Love Again: Overcoming the Kind of Betrayal That Nobody Talks About," addresses healing from familial sexual abuse and other profound betrayals. Find Sara at: tonalliservices.com 💬 Are You Facing a CPS Investigation or False Allegations? Lisa and Chris at Been There Got Out work with targeted parents every day who are dealing with CPS weaponization, false allegations, and the overwhelming fear that comes with it. If you'd like to talk through your specific situation, we offer a free 30-minute discovery call. 👉 Book your free call: beentheregotout.com

    33 min

  6. MAR 26

    Why You Married a Narcissist & How to Make Sure Your Kids Don’t

    Have you ever looked back at your relationship with your ex and wondered: how did I get here? Why did I choose someone who would eventually turn the courts, the kids, maybe even your own family against you? Why did this feel so normal... at first?   The answer might be encoded in your DNA.   In this conversation, Lisa sits down with Dr. Sylvia Kalachinsky — a PhD family therapist with 21 years of clinical experience, a faculty career that took her from Mount Sinai Medical Center to working with migrant families in the California fields, and a newly released book called “Lonely AF.” She is also someone who grew up with a narcissistic father and learned, in adulthood, to trace her own relational patterns back to their roots.  Together, they unpack intergenerational trauma — not as a heavy clinical term, but as the lived experience of patterns passed down through families across at least three generations. Patterns encoded not just in behavior but, according to the science of epigenetics, in your actual DNA.  In this episode, you’ll discover:   - Why we are often unconsciously attracted to partners who mirror how we felt emotionally with our primary caregivers, even if that feeling was painful  - The science behind “your nervous system will reject what’s unfamiliar, even if it feels good,” and why a healthy relationship can feel suspiciously boring at first  - Big T vs. little t trauma - why your pain counts even if it “didn’t seem that bad”  - How to do a genogram to identify the patterns your own family has been running for generations  - The BODY Skill: a 90-second grounding technique you can use silently in mediation, at a deposition, or while waiting for a call from your lawyer  - Why your healing is the single most powerful gift you can give your children and how modeling emotional regulation stops the cycle of transmission  Lisa also shares her own story about how, after 20 years in a high-conflict marriage, a loving, stable relationship initially felt “too boring.” Her nervous system had been conditioned to chaos. The moment you hear Dr. Sylvia’s response to that story might be the thing you share with a friend today.  Whether you’re in the middle of a custody battle, co-parenting with someone you can’t trust, or already on the other side and trying to make sure the cycle ends with you — this conversation is going to give you something you’ve been looking for.  Dr. Sylvia’s new book “Lonely AF: A Therapist’s No-B.S. Guide to Feeling Less Alone” is available now.  Find Dr. Sylvia at: Instagram @doctorsylviak | drsylviak.com | The Doctor Sylvia K Show podcast

    42 min

  7. MAR 23

    Your Child Isn't Lying. They're Code-Switching. Here's What That Means.

    Your child cried at your house about how much they hate going to their other parent's home. Then you found out they had a great time. Or they came home from your ex's house perfectly happy, when you expected them to be upset. Or they told you one thing — and told your ex something completely different.   It can feel like a betrayal. Or proof that something is wrong at the other house. Or maybe it makes you doubt your own perception of what's happening.  Here's what's actually going on — and it's less alarming than you might think.  Dr. Jill Leibowitz is a clinical psychologist and play therapist in New York City who works with children and families navigating high-conflict divorce and co-parenting situations. In her third conversation with Lisa and Been There Got Out, Dr. Jill unpacks one of the most confusing and emotionally loaded experiences in shared custody: why children behave so differently depending on which parent they're with — and what it means for you as the parent trying to protect them.  This conversation also addresses what happens when parents respond to the "two-faced" experience in ways that escalate conflict — even when they mean well. From reporting back what the kids said, to demanding consistency in rules, to getting pulled into a group text where the kids are being used to pressure a decision, Dr. Jill walks through the specific behaviors that keep the conflict burning and the concrete steps parents can take instead.    In this conversation:  - Why kids bring different emotional parts of themselves to each parent — and why that's developmentally normal  - What it means when your child complains about the other parent's home (and what it doesn't mean)  - The "code switching" concept: how kids adapt to different homes the same way they adapt to different classrooms  - Why demanding the same bedtime, diet, and screen time rules in both homes creates more conflict than it solves  - The group text trap: what your ex is doing and the precise way to step out of it  - Why children who seem to want decision-making power are often overwhelmed by it — and what to do instead  - How to be the parent your child brings their full self to, not just the brave parts or the scared parts    If you've been confused, hurt, or worried by your child's behavior between homes, this is the conversation that will finally make sense of it.    CONNECT WITH DR. JILL LEIBOWITZ:  Website: https://realtkseveryday.com  Instagram: @realtkseveryday  Facebook: Real Talks Everyday    #KidsBehavior #CoParentingHelp #HighConflictCustody #ChildTherapist #DivorceKids #ParentingAfterDivorce #CoParenting #ParallelParenting #NarcissisticEx #FamilyLaw

    32 min

  8. MAR 19

    Can a Horse Heal Your Trauma? Equine Therapy for Divorce & Narcissistic Abuse

    When Kasia Bukowska's horses refused to cooperate, she thought she was failing. What she discovered instead changed everything she understood about trauma, healing, and why we stay stuck.  Kasia is a Polish equine-assisted therapist, equestrian coach, and artist who has spent years learning how to use horses as healing partners for clients working through deep emotional pain - including survivors of narcissistic abuse, people in the middle of high-conflict divorces, and anyone whose nervous system has been shattered by years of coercive control.  But here's the most important thing she says right at the start of this conversation: you don't need a horse.  The lessons horses teach — about nervous system regulation, about authenticity, about the way your energy affects everyone around you — apply to your dog, your cat, a rabbit, even a tree. If you've ever wondered why you can't seem to calm down no matter how hard you try, or why you walk into a custody evaluation dysregulated even though you desperately want to present well, this conversation is going to give you a completely different lens for understanding what's happening in your body.  Lisa and Kasia go deep on how horses act as biological mirrors — literally responding to your internal state in real time — and what that reveals about the patterns keeping you stuck. Including a story about a giant shire horse and a little wooden pole that will stay with you.  In this episode:  00:00 - Introduction: Who is Kasia Bukowska and why horses? 01:45 - The one thing Kasia says immediately: you don't need a horse! 03:30 - Kasia's background: equestrian coach, equine-assisted therapist, and artist 05:20 - How she discovered the connection between her paintings and her horses' messages 08:10 - What actually happens in an equine-assisted therapy session 12:00 - Why Kasia works with horses at liberty (no halters, no riding) and what that makes possible 16:30 - How a horse responds when you're reliving trauma vs. when you're regulated 19:45 - "The way you do one thing is the way you do everything" - what this means for your healing 24:00 - The cavaletti story: what a ton of horse taught one client about softening instead of pushing 30:15 - How addiction, self-harm, and deep shame show up in equine sessions 33:40 - What to do if you see horses on the side of the road and can't stop 36:20 - How to use any animal (or a tree!) as a grounding tool right now 40:10 - Can you do equine therapy online? Kasia explains how 44:30 - How to find equine-assisted learning and equine gestalt practitioners near you 47:00 - Where to find Kasia: Instagram, websites, and upcoming webinars   Find Kasia Bukowska: Instagram (coaching): @equestrian_kasha_bukowska Instagram (art): @kasha_bukowska_art Coaching & therapy: hearthorseexperience.com Artwork: kashabukowska.com  Been There Got Out: We are Lisa Johnson and Chris Barry: veteran high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists who help targeted parents navigate one of the most painful experiences a person can face. We fill the gap between what family law attorneys are trained to do and what therapists understand about the legal system.  If your ex has a personality disorder, if you're fighting to protect your relationship with your children, or if you're trying to rebuild your life after years of coercive control, you are in the right place!  #equinetherapy #traumahealing #narcissisticabuserecovery #nervousystemregulation #highconflictdivorce #equineасsistedtherapy #healingafterabuse #beentheregotout

    43 min
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About

Chris and Lisa of BeenThereGotOut.com both survived toxic marriages with narcissistic partners and the legal and co-parenting nightmares that go hand-in-hand with all of that.If you are struggling in a high-conflict relationship, divorce, custody battle, or co-parenting hell which requires PERSONALIZED attention, let us HOLD YOUR HAND along the way, while providing EXPERT, STRATEGIC guidance based on one's years of success (representing myself in court!), coupled with the other's High Conflict Divorce Coach certification.Our podcast features interviews with lawyers, therapists, co-parenting coordinators, guardians ad litem, and other subject matter experts, as well as other content, all with one goal in mind: Let us teach you how to HELP YOURSELF!

Information

  • Creator
    Chris & Lisa
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    350
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 BTGO, LLC
  • Show Website
    Been There Got Out Podcast

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