Better PR Now with Mark Phillips

Mark Russell Phillips

Helping leaders build strong brands and stakeholder relationships with effective communication.

  1. 01/02/2019

    021 - Fred_Wellman - Hardest working man in PR

    Fred Wellman is the founder of ScoutComms, a niche agency in Fredericksburg, Virginia. He specializes in public relations and marketing efforts in support of corporations and nonprofits focused on veteran and military family support, as well as veteran-owned and focused businesses.  In this episode, he explains why he started his own PR agency that focuses n service and why running a B Corp (a mission-driven benefit corporation) can create a competitive edge in attracting top quality clients and employees. He also explains the importance of serving pro bono clients and why we should hire against our weaknesses. As the hardest working man in public relations, Fred Wellman is the James Brown of PR. As the hardest working man in public relations, Fred Wellman is the James Brown of PR. A graduate of West Point and the Harvard Kennedy School of Government, he ran for mayor in Georgia, served as an Army Scout and Blackhawk helicopter pilot in Iraq, worked for Generals David Petraeus and Martin Dempsey (later Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff). General Petraeus selected him to become an Army public affairs officer. Fred started his own agency at the bottom of the last recession.  He found a niche that focuses on veterans' issues.  His business, ScoutComms, is based on one simple idea: There are very few veterans in the agency world, so ScoutComms would serve as the expert in that niche for larger PR agencies initially and, eventually, for corporate clients directly. There is a bias against hiring senior practitioners who have not previously worked in agencies.  This seems to be based on the assumption that it's difficult or impossible to learn how to manage client relationships and develop new business.  This bias precludes hiring talented communication professionals with deep experience, rich insight, and a robust network in a particular sector. It is important to integrate all communications (PR, marketing, internal, executive, digital, etc.) across an organization. Know your clients.  Bring on experts who know the client's business, culture, sensitivities, language, and how they communicate. It's important to know how your organization is different. What is your competitive advantage or secret sauce?   Forming a B Corp can cost more money, but also can be a good fit if your business is founded on more than making money.  Much of ScoutComms' business is in corporate social responsibility, so having an organizational framework that reinforces that social good creates a strategic, competitive advantage.  The B Corp certification process can serve as a coaching tool.  Fred refers to his former employees as "graduates" and he is very proud of what they have gone on to do. One runs a USO center in North Carolina, one is running an environmental organization in northern Virginia, and one works for Dr. Jill Biden.

    56 min
  2. 11/13/2018

    020 - Curtis Sparrer on why celebrity interviews are like a high-performance sport

    Curtis Sparrer, principal at Bospar PR in San Francisco, shares terrific insights on why celebrity interviews are like a high-performance sport. He also explains how to set up really successful media engagements, tips on working with celebrities (he's done award-winning work with George Takei of Star Trek fame), and how to grow trust-based relationships with clients. Working with a celebrity or CEO on successful media engagements: Consider what they can and can't talk about; do a deep dive with them and their management team about those issues before any media interviews. Before an interview, clarify with the journalist what questions will be asked; ask for a written Q&A beforehand; be clear about ground rules; let them know what you want to focus on. Be clear about anything you'd like the journalist to include in the story. Send a follow-up note with thanks and a reminder of the key point(s) you'd like to have included in the story. If your key message isn't included in the final version of the story, contact the journalist to politely ask that the message be included in that or a future story. Crafting the message:  First, ask celebrities what they are planning to say. Repeat the message: Working it into every interview in several ways helps ensure that key messages are included in the final article.  Use pep talks with spokespeople to help keep them on message and excited to keep delivering the messages. Why celebrity interviews are like a high-performance sport: For media tours, consider how many engagements is enough versus what is too many.  For a celebrity, after about five interviews, you often have diminishing returns as they get tired. Manage the message and the energy in interviews: For longer interviews or media tours, include refreshments to get their sugar levels/energy up so they can perform. Avoid including dairy products to keep the voice clear. Include long energy foods that won't lead to a sugar crash; fruits like bananas are great. Check with the talent's management or agent to information on what they prefer. Media training: Use recorded media simulations to prepare senior leaders or other spokespeople for their on-camera interviews. Give criticism in private to help them learn and develop their skills without needing to save face in front of their staff. Arrive early to media interviews to give them a chance to get a feel for how the show is flowing. Ask production assistants if they have a copy of the script, because it might have a copy of the questions. Make sure your clients read the news on the day of their interview and give them a run-down on that day's news in their sector, because they could be asked their opinion on breaking news.  This keeps them from being caught off guard. Newsjacking: Pay attention to the news for opportunities to give your perspective on breaking stories.  Local news producers are always looking to localize (find the local angle) national or international stories to make them relevant to their local audience. When a story breaks, journalists are trying to figure out what will happen in the future, what people can expect in the next X days. To get coverage that matters to your client's business, have the CEO give a three-sentence statement, including what this news event means, what people can expect in the future, and why we are an expert to talk about this. The importance of speed when responding to media: Don't perfect a statement to death; perfect is the enemy of the good. A good-enough statement on time is far more valuable than a perfect statement that is too late. Personal branding and networking for PR professionals: Share with your boss what your professional priorities are; helps build your reputation with your coworkers and leadership. On LinkedIn, talk about your core values and why they are important to you; make sure you also live those core values. Don't depend on building your brand on only one social platform; cross-pollinate content across your social platforms; show your personal side. Brand consistency in developing your personal brand is important, with some exceptions: Authenticity that is not self-promotional (such as sharing photos from your birthday or other important personal event). The biggest turnoff with LinkedIn is that it can be an echo chamber of bragging, so break that up with something other than how great you are professionally. Be willing to talk about your mistakes and the lessons you learned. Failure is the best teacher and we can learn from it. Fail fast, learn from your mistakes, and tell the story as you go. Be willing to be vulnerable; it makes you human. This isn't appropriate for all CEOs, so it's important to know your client and what will work for them. Media tours are a great way to bond with your CEO (or other client), because you'll spend hours with them in the process. This presents opportunities to get to know them better and to identify other PR opportunities for them. Make it a point to attend awards ceremonies and other events that are important to your client. They need to see you as someone who really is in their corner. You want to be seen by your client as the trusted, safe counsel for them.

    49 min
  3. 06/25/2018

    016 - Jake Eisenberg turbocharges lead generation via social media

    I'm joined by Jake Eisenberg, president of Reach Digital Group. Jake shares his approach to local marketing and explains how he uses social media to boost lead generation and acquire solid leads. His company specializes in helping local businesses, but his approach works for national brands as well.   Q: Jake, you're president of the Reach Digital Group. How did you get into this business and why did you choose to start your own agency?  Originally, I got started with a mixed martial arts blog that I had in 2009, before MMA really took off. This website was gaining a lot of traffic, and I was generating money through ad revenue, and I saw how to bring new traffic in. I started getting familiar with search engine optimization and started thinking to myself, "What are other ways that I can bring this up?"  As I was going through school, and working, and all these other things, I started working on other projects and I stumbled across doing some e-commerce websites, and I got familiar with doing Google AdWords. That lead to search engine optimization, Google AdWords, Facebook Ads, and running social media calendars.  I was having great success with these strategies that I was working on and building through time. Some friends or family members started to approach me and say, "Can you give me a website for my business? We liked what you were doing; let's kind of see what you can do for us."  These strategies were working at a local level and at the national level. Actually, it's easier at a local level, because there's not as much competition.  So, I started having success with that and it quickly turned into family members who had businesses, became my testimonials, or my case studies. I was able to then get new business through referral. That's how I got started with it: I tapped my own network, did the work well, and was able to use that to leverage new business.  Q: What are some of the biggest changes that you've seen since you started that MMA blog in 2009? Technology changes at warp-speed, so in the online marketing space, what have you experienced in terms of changes?  A lot of the changes I've seen are from the platforms growing. Search engine optimization used to be something where you could just do what they call "keyword stuffing." If you wanted to rank for a certain keyword, you could just put a bunch of that same keyword on a page and you would rank. That's changed, because now there are so many more websites out there. So everyone's doing that, and now you've got to find new techniques, and new ways to do it.  The same thing with Google AdWords. The pay-per-clicks have gone up a lot, because more people are using those channels. Facebook advertising is still relatively new and it's just gotten even more acknowledgment in the media world, because of everything that's just happened. So, we can still kind of consider the Internet to be new.  There are a lot of unknown territories and directions that we can go. We're all learning and it's constantly changing and evolving. There's just so much more competition that you've got to come up with new strategies, and the platforms have become a lot more advanced.  Q: I'd like to explore that a little bit more. For your peers, what should they be focusing on, in terms of skills they need to be honing or new platforms that they need to be becoming more adept at using?  With how the marketing world is changing, it's a content-first world. You've got to build this customer loyalty. If you're selling a service or a product, you want to provide the information to the potential customer, what it is that you have that leads to it. You can put content out there in the form of video or blog posting, and be able to share that.  The two top converting platforms right now are still Facebook and Instagram. If you're able to meet your customers at least on those two channels, as well as having a blog to explain what your business is, because that will help bring in keywords and maybe some backlinking to boost it; start with those.  You don't need to be on every single channel. You just want to be able to meet them on at least the two biggest channels. I recommend tapping those three sources and provide information about yourself and your service.  Q: There are many platforms, and it seems like new ones popping up every day. Obviously, it's better to go where your audience is and Facebook and Instagram are where they are. It seems like a lot of people feel compelled to be on as many platforms as they possibly can, almost like the shiny object syndrome, "There's this new thing; I have to do it." What is your advice for people who feel like they're getting spread too thin?  Realistically, it's because they are getting spread too thin when you're trying to keep up with all the new trends. Coming from a business perspective, you look at the analytics and ask, "Where's my engagement coming from? Where am I getting the most clicks, the likes, the shares?" I would focus on those and chop off the ones that you think you're getting spread too thin on. Because you're wasting valuable time or effort that you could be putting towards something else to just try to keep up with these other channels to maybe meet a small percent of your client base.  Q: So you focus your efforts where there's the likelihood that you're going to get the biggest return on that investment?  Exactly; just make sure to keep checking on that and making sure that your engagement is there, because it can change.  Going back to the idea of how this world is evolving and new technology, one platform could be big now, and in two years it could be a different one. Keep an eye on it and make sure you know where you're actually getting the best benefit.  Q: You mentioned analytics and following this data-driven approach. What are some of the key performance metrics that you use, and what platforms or tools do you use to gather data and analyze those metrics?  That really depends on the approach. If it's paid outreach, look at your cost per conversion and your cost per click, because if your cost for conversion is too high, there's already going to be something wrong there. Always look at it from the monetary standpoint.  For social media, do the posting and look at engagement; see what posts are working, what posts aren't working.  I take a different approach than most: I actually track through my own spreadsheet. I'll give a score to posts that I think were better or worse, and how they did. And I'll go back at the end of the month and review those scores. It's just a method that I found to work.  Q: The only wrong way is one that doesn't work for you.  Right, and I just feel that the analytic software is -- it's data driven, but they don't understand how people are responding to a certain question. So, if you're asking a more human-type question than one that's systematic, those programs aren't going to be able to tell you that. That's something that it's easier to keep track of by going through and judging those type of posts … and constantly seeing if you're going up, what pages were doing better, and focusing on where those numbers are going.  Q: With Reach Digital, you focus on, primarily, helping local businesses?  Local and small businesses. We started locally and have now grown into doing some business at the national level, but we've got a lot of local businesses.  Q: To what extent do you find that small business who tend to do business locally, have more limited resources? How does that affect how you start to help them? That's one of the reasons they'll approach us. A small business might not have the resources to hire someone in-house for marketing. So we're able to offset those costs. Often they're saying, "We want to be on social media; we want to be on blogs; our expertise is focusing on the business; we want someone else to handle the online efforts."  Working with us is a way to offset the cost of getting someone with knowledge. They don't have to train, they don't have to get benefits, and so that's kind of where we found that connection point with local businesses.  Q: Can you describe for me who your ideal client would be?  Our ideal client is someone who has a little bit of knowledge of online marketing, already started to attempt it, and is looking for repairs and someone to monitor it. So we're kind of looking for that now, companies with semi-established to established online presence.  Q: When you have a conversation with a potential client who has some knowledge, and has attempted it on their own, do you find that they come to you with a better sense of where their limitations are, where their needs are, and where their particular pain points are?  Oh, yeah, 100%. When they've actually rolled up their sleeves and attempted it and have got it going, they know where their weakness is and where they need help. They also have a better idea of the message that's going to connect better socially with their customer base from actually trying it. So, it's not as much of a learning period. For us, as a business, we're able to go in there, talk with them, get their knowledge that they've already learned from their client base, and then apply that to help correct those challenges.  Q: What are the typical questions that they ask you when you have that first conversation?  They actually all range. Some of them say, "We know what we're doing, but can you just help us schedule?" Or, "Can you show us how this will bring us ROI (return on investment)?"  That's one of the biggest things. With online marketing, a lot of companies have a hard time seeing how social media can bring a return on investment. That's when we tell them that, "Let's look at the analytics, let us show you where your traffic is coming from, and let's set up some type of conversion campaign to show you that people are calling or signing up." That's really what

    28 min
  4. 06/02/2018

    015 - Strategic Communication lessons from the Marine Corps

    I'd like to share strategic communication and stakeholder engagement lessons from the commandant of the Marine Corps. So to set the stage, in Washington D.C. the Marine Barracks Washington is downtown. If you've ever heard of 8th and I, that's Marine Barracks. It's the oldest post of the Corps. As the oldest post of the Corps, they do something very special every Friday evening during the summer called the evening parade. And according to their website, the parade has become a universal symbol of the professionalism, the discipline, and the Espirit de Corps of the United States Marines. The story of the ceremony reflects the story of Marines serving throughout the world. Whether aboard ship, in foreign embassies, at recruit depots, or in divisions, or in the many positions and places where Marines project their image, the individual marine continually tells the story of the Marine Corps.  So the evening parade, let me paint a picture for you. You pull up and immediately, even though you're on the streets of Washington, D.C. and it's really crowded, lots of traffic. You're immediately met by a group of Marines who are in their full-service dress. The white hat, the blue jacket, the white pants, and they're just exquisite. They've got all their medals and they meet you, they park you, they bring you in, and they're very, very welcoming and professional. I was able to go to a VIP reception that the commandant hosted for about 200 people. He gave remarks and he also introduced the guest of honor, House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, and then there were 3 other congressional members who participated that evening, along with about 24 NCAA coaches. And those two groups are really important. There were many other people there that night. And then typically, after the reception which lasts about an hour and a half, out on the parade deck there are bleachers that hold probably 2,000 people, and they give an hour and fifteen-minute performance where they have Chesty XIV, who is the current mascot of Marine Barracks Washington. He's an English bulldog, he has all of his uniform and decorations on, all of his medals and awards. The silent drill team which is just absolutely astonishing in their precision and the Marine Band also gives a performance including numbers by John Phillip Sousa, one of the most famous Marine Band leaders. So altogether, it's an evening where you get to experience the Marine Corps on parade, but you also get to engage with both enlisted and officer marines. So during the reception, we had both officers and really junior enlisted marines come up and ask us how we were doing, welcomed us to the Barracks, talked about their role in the Marine Corps. They are very much steeped in their tradition in history and it gives you a very personal welcome and really heartwarming experience, being part of that whole evening. After the performance, the members of the VIP reception were able to take photos with the Commandant and his wife, with the drill team, with the mascot, and with some of the bandsmen. It's a really wonderful evening and lasts a couple hours.  So here's some strategic communication lessons. For the purpose of this exercise, I'm talking about strategic communication in terms of the stakeholder engagement that affects your organization's ability to survive and thrive. I'm not talking about media relations, I'm not talking about broad public engagement. I'm talking about focusing on those stakeholders who have some kind of really important effect on your organization and its ability to exist and continue to operate. So the lens I would like to share with you, that we'll look at this through, is, and if you're a marketer, you're familiar with AIDA, A-I-D-A, which is an acronym that stands for Attention, Interest, Desire, and Action. So if you think about this being a funnel, at the very widest, open part of the funnel is attention. You have to get somebody's attention. Once you've got their attention, you have to create interest in what it is you're doing, your organization has to offer, whether it's a product or a service. Then you have to move them from interest to desire. You want them to, in the case of sales marketing, you want them to buy your product or purchase your service. In the case of the Marine Corps, you probably need to attract recruits, and there are other things that the Corps depends on as well. And finally, once you have that attention leading to interest leading to desire, you want them to take action.  So in this case, there are three groups of people who are there participating. You have the Congressional members, you have coaches, and you have members of the public. All three of those are important for the future of the Marine Corps. So for the Congressional members, what does the Marine Corps, like every other government organization, rely on from Congress? One of the main things is funding. So that night we had the House Majority Leader and three other members of Congress. Through that process, they have a better understanding of the Marine Corps. They certainly have a positive impression of the professionalism and discipline and the polish of the Marines, and that probably leads them to be predisposed to positively supporting the Marines when they put in their funding request.  Same thing with the coaches. These are NCAA coaches from a lot of different sports, from, I believe, that night were Division 3 coaches from around the country. Those coaches, whether they are just coaching or they're coaching and they're teaching on campus, are interacting with students and with parents, and they are in a prime position to make recommendations and suggestions for avenues that the students might follow for the rest of their careers. Being able to recommend the United States Marine Corps only serves to drive talented, professional, disciplined, young people to the recruiters. That also helps the Marine Corps because they're always looking for new enlisted and officer recruits, and to have the parents also being exposed to the Marine Corps in this very positive setting, that gives another voice to recommend the Marine Corps as a potential career path for young people.  If you think about what the Marine Corps is entirely dependent on, they're dependent on recruits and funding. Those are the two big things. So over the course of one summer season, you could have all of the members of the House and Senate Armed Services Committees that play a major role in determining the funding for all the military services, you could have most of the professional staff members that work on those funding packages, you could have most of the members of the House and Senate Appropriations Committees for Defense also participating. And so if you have just the majority of them coming through over the course of a couple of years, now you've reminded them of who the Marine Corps is, what role they play in national security and national defense, why that investment in the Marine Corps is important. You also have touched thousands and thousands of either potential recruits or influencers of recruits, whether they're parents or teachers or coaches. And so those become positive voices to represent the Marine Corps when young people are trying to making a decision about what path they are going to follow in life. So if you think about this from a marketing perspective, in terms of creating influence and positive impressions and getting these groups of people to help you with your messaging to those who are potential recruits and new members of the Marine Corps or to those who make funding decisions about the Marine Corps's budget, the evening parade throughout the summer is a fantastic way to do it. So, is that an opportunity that's only open to the Marine Corps? Absolutely not. Every organization could do that. The United States Army does it with their Twilight Tattoos in Washington, both of which, if you are in Washington or come for a visit, make sure that you see one of those events because they're absolutely spectacular. But if you think about it, any organization, whether it's a school or a manufacturing company or a services company, could take an opportunity to create some kind of personal experience, personal engagement with the stakeholders that are most strategically important to your organization. So for me, that's the takeaway. It's understand who your strategic stakeholders are and why they are so important to you and your organization. Find ways to connect with them that are meaningful and that help to build understanding, and in the AIDA model, they build attention, they create interest, they create desire, and ultimately, they can lead to action that is mutually beneficial for you and your organization and your stakeholders. So that's the lesson for today. I hope you find it valuable. I really want you to get as much value out of this podcast or video series as possible, and I want to know what you have questions about, so if you have a question about public relations, marketing, organizational communication, drop me a line at mark@betterprnow.com. If you have a question about this episode or about the field in general, let me know. Also if you want to nominate a guest for the podcast, drop me a line. Again it's mark@betterprnow.com. I'd love to hear from you, and finally, before we close out, I want to remind you about my transcription partner. They've got a great 25% off deal. Just go to transcribeme.com/betterprnow. I'll catch you on the next episode. Thanks a lot.

    12 min
  5. 05/22/2018

    014 - Secrets to Win Tech PR - Curtis Sparrer of Bospar PR Shares Secrets of His Award-Winning Boutique Tech Public Relations Agency

    The most important thing with PR is asking your clients what business results they want to achieve. And then reverse engineering a PR program around that. Welcome to another episode of Better PR Now. This episode is sponsored by our official transcription partner, transcribeme.com. If you'd like to see an example of their terrific work, check out the "notes" page on the Better PR Now website. For a 25% discount on their services, go to transcribeme.com/betterprnow. Today, we're fortunate to be joined by Curtis Sparrer, principal at Bospar in San Fransisco. Bospar recently won the PR Week Boutique Agency of the Year award. Congratulations and welcome, Curtis. Thanks. Thanks for having me. So, as we jump in, I'd like to find out about how people got into public relations, how they started their career in communication. You graduated from UT Austin with a degree in Radio, Television, and Film. What's happened between graduation and ending up in San Fransisco as a principal at one of the nation's leading agencies? Well, I think what happened in the short term is I got smart. But the long-term is a much more complicated story. I went to LA, worked for Roger Corman. He's a famous B-movie producer and discovered that I just did not have the patience to pay my dues in Hollywood. When I was going to school at UT Austin, I worked as a video film editor for the local TV stations, and I used that skill to go back into news. And my first job as a producer was in Toledo, Ohio. I cut my teeth as a producer there for about three years rising up the ranks and even moonlighting as a restaurant critic and advice columnist. I then moved to Huston where I worked the overnight show there. And then I got an amazing offer to produce the 9 PM news at [inaudible] in San Fransisco. I worked there. I won a regional Emmy. And I was promoted to the executive producer. And then as I kind of ended my career at [inaudible], I was faced with the choice that I could either move to a different city, or I could change my career trajectory so I could stay with my friends. And I gave it a long thought and determined that it would be best if I took all my skills and applied them somewhere else. I applied at a lot of different PR firms thinking that would be the best use of my skillset. And I was really surprised by the obnoxious response of a lot of people. How so [laughter]? I got some responses like, "Oh, I couldn't possibly qualify to do PR. It was far too complex." "Oh, PR is just so difficult and you would not just understand it." A lot of self-satisfied responses about how complex PR was. And I didn't get a lot of encouragement. I answered a Craigslist ad for a PR position, an internship really, and I met this woman named Kris [Balkie?]. And after Chris and I had a very long conversation, she called me back and said, "I don't want to do an internship. I want to get married. I want to hire you as our senior associate and I want to get things started." And so I started as a senior associate and started learning, very quickly. And I learned that a lot of people in PR were really good at telling clients no. And I decided that my fastest route for survival would be learning how to tell clients yes. And I I treated clients like anyone would treat a television anchor, with the utmost respect, and I learned that really paid off well. I also learned that a lot of times the press release material that clients were trying to get in the media was not useful for any journalist having both been a TV producer and also having been a writer. So before we go any further. Why was it not useful? Was there a pattern there? Yeah. It was. A lot of the content was jargon-heavy. A lot of the content was something that would not fit in any kind of current narrative or current story that journalists were already talking about. It was very tone deaf. A lot of the content was just tone deaf and it was as if a bunch of marketers were thinking I want to have this content run in TechCrunch without really bothering to think well, what is TechCrunch right now? What's important to them? And so my point to all our clients was that we needed to understand what our journalist contacts were working on and then reverse engineer our story so we would better match their priorities. That sounds a lot like in the startup community where people are tempted to-- they have an idea and they say, "This is a really cool thing. Let me go find a market for it." As opposed to looking at the market, seeing where the pain points are where people are having challenges, and then coming up with a solution for those challenges. Absolutely. Just because I have a story I want to tell in a certain way doesn't mean that anybody is going to be interested in hearing it. That's exactly it. And that's the problem that a lot of companies have and they kind of-- the expression, of course, is drink their own cool-aid but it's kind of a reality distortion field where they seem to think that the news that's important to them will be important to other people and the thing that I try to tell our clients is that's not the case. And I even been so much as vulgar to one client and I said, "Knowing a plot until you m********e [laughter]." That's true. So the client was— And how did the client take it? -- like, "That is pretty stark but point taken." So were you able to convince them to take a different path? I have. I have been able to convince a lot of clients that the crazy thing they want to do is not really what they want to achieve and I think the most important thing with PR is asking your clients what business results they want to achieve and then reverse engineering a PR program around that. And I also counsel our clients that just because a story is published doesn't mean your target is going to see it and that you need to take that story and put it in front of your target's face so that the can actually see it. And I think it's resonated with me more now than ever since I'm a principal at my own firm and I use PR as our principal means of business development. Yeah. That's absolutely true and what you're talking about is helping them shift from focusing on tactics which is where all the bright shiny objects are to focusing on a more strategic level what do you want to achieve? And then, figuring out from there okay, how do we get there? Absolutely. And I find that when I do that that I am providing a much more full-service approach along the PESO model where some clients will say, "Well, I really want the sense at this convention that everyone's talking about us." And then I can say, "Well, that's really not going to be any story placement. What you're going to want is you're going to want to buy advertising space all over that convention so that you are the only thing people see." And  the client's like, "That's what I want to do. You're right." And sometimes it's a   matter about counseling a client out the bead idea. I remember one client wanted to have a press conference and if you're Facebook or Google or Apple you can probably do that but when you're a startup that's impossible. And so I had to work very hard to not insult the client but to convince him that that was going to provide the results he was looking for. Yep. That's absolutely right. And frankly, that's really challenging sometimes. That is really challenging sometimes and I think that it's one of the big things that all agencies and all people of marketing really face. Yeah. Absolutely. As you've been around the public relations world for a while you've seen people execute in ways that I'm sure are just [eyewateringly?] stunningly brilliant and you've seen I'm sure people do the opposite where they fall on their faces. And I'm not asking you to out anybody [laughter] but can you describe an example where somebody did something just incredibly dumb in public relations. And the reason is I think there's a teachable moment and good lessons for all of us every time we see something like that happen. You know, I think everyone has done something really stupid that they regretted. For me, when I think of all the dumb things I have done, I think the stupidest thing I ever did is I was trying to get a story placed because I had a crush on someone and I thought that this would be helpful and I had the whole backstory with the journalist about the crush and how great it was. And so finally the journalist coughed up the story and I was so excited about it that I forwarded the whole thread to said crush without realizing that I forwarded the whole thread to the [crush?] [laughter]. Talk about being transparent. Awkward. Yeah. Yeah. How'd that work out? Well, let's say I'm not married to them [laughter]. Okay. Got it. Got it. Okay. So flip it around. What's the most brilliant thing that you've ever done in your career or that you've seen somebody else do? You know, I will probably think of the brilliant things a lot later as I'm doing something else mundane and boring. I think one of the prouder yet smaller things I did is I was faced with this press release that needed approval from this marketing company and everyone from the marketing company had gone home for the day. Their New York line was closed, their San Francisco line was closed and I really was beginning to panic until I realized that this marketing firm was an international marketing firm. So I called their Australian affiliate. They were up. They were just starting their day and they managed to approve the whole thing. And while that not a, 'Oh, my God. I'm the next Einstein," sort of thing, it's that kind of thinking that has saved me time and time again where we get in the mode of thinking in just a very narrow, narrow focus and I think the more that you can expand your thinking and expand your approach the better you're going to do. Yeah. I think you're absolutely right there. You recently wrote a blog post on the [inaudible] blog about

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