Beyond the Resume

Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker

Co-hosted by industry veterans, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker, the weekly Beyond the Resume Podcast features interviews with some of the best known real estate experts in the U.S. By exploring how they built their successful careers and the impact they have made to the communities around them we hope to educate and inspire anyone building or thinking of building a career in real estate. Join us as we go Beyond the Resume.

  1. Beyond the Resume Podcast with Joy Horak-Brown (Building Hope in Housing)

    4D AGO

    Beyond the Resume Podcast with Joy Horak-Brown (Building Hope in Housing)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa sits down with Joy Horak-Brown, President and CEO of New Hope Housing in Houston, Texas. Joy shares the remarkable origin story of the organization, founded in 1993 through the social outreach efforts of Christ Church Cathedral. What began as a modest initiative with just 40 studio apartments and $75,000 in the bank has grown into a pioneering affordable housing nonprofit serving thousands of Texans. Joy explains how New Hope Housing became the first organization in Texas dedicated to housing formerly homeless residents, and how it has expanded to more than 2,115 deeply affordable apartment homes for individuals, families, and seniors. The conversation explores the challenges of financing affordable housing, the importance of the Low Income Housing Tax Credit program, and the ongoing national need for housing at 30% of area median income and below. Joy also reflects on leadership, professional development, mentorship, and her upcoming transition after 30 years at the helm. From award-winning developments recognized by the Urban Land Institute to building communities with supportive services like preschools, clinics, and green spaces, this episode highlights what it takes to create housing with dignity, quality, and long-term impact. Chapters (00:02:28) From 40 Units to a Statewide Pioneer — How New Hope built the first Texas housing dedicated to formerly homeless citizens. (00:05:57) New Hope Today: 2,115 Apartment Homes — Joy shares the scale of growth and the populations served, from individuals to seniors. (00:08:17) Building a Supportive Housing Campus — A “small town” model with preschool, health clinics, services, and even a prairie park. (00:10:31) Houston’s Changing View on Affordable Housing — How proven quality and long-term success reduced resistance over time. (00:20:17) Financing and Pushback in Early Years — Joy recalls fundraising struggles and skepticism from the City of Houston. (00:25:35) Leadership Transition After 30 Years — Joy discusses succession planning and becoming CEO Emerita. (00:30:34) Joy’s Hot Seat: Favorite Book & Mentorship — Her recommendation of The Nonprofit Board Answer Book and lessons from mentors. LINKS YouTube: https://youtu.be/30IMSwUaBp8 Spotify: https://lnkd.in/eyrNGt53 Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9 ---- affordable housing, New Hope Housing, Joy Horak-Brown, Houston housing development, supportive housing, homelessness solutions, Low Income Housing Tax Credit, nonprofit leadership, Urban Land Institute ULI, deeply affordable housing

    35 min
  2. Beyond the Resume with Seth Bynum (The making of a true NYC Houser)

    FEB 2

    Beyond the Resume with Seth Bynum (The making of a true NYC Houser)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Seth Bynum, Senior Advisor for Housing Policy and Development in the New York City Deputy Mayor’s Office, for a deep dive into how housing policy actually gets made—and implemented—on the ground. Seth explains his role as a liaison between the Mayor’s Office, HPD, HDC, and NYCHA, and why his job ultimately comes down to making it easier to finance and build housing in one of the most complex development environments in the world. The conversation explores New York City’s landmark City of Yes zoning reforms, the shift toward embracing all housing as good housing, and why political risk, environmental review, and time delays remain the biggest obstacles to development. Seth also shares his personal journey—from discovering urban studies by accident at Vassar, to cold-messaging housing leaders on LinkedIn, to working as an affordable housing developer, and finally returning to public service. Along the way, he reflects on why affordable housing finance is so difficult to break into, why Excel and underwriting matter, and what it really means to be a “houser.” The episode closes with Seth’s reading list, podcast recommendations, and candid advice for young professionals who want to build careers in housing policy, development, and public service. Chapters (00:03:21) What Seth Does in the Mayor’s Office An overview of Seth’s role coordinating housing finance agencies and translating policy into action. (00:06:00) Why Building in NYC Is So Hard Political risk, environmental review, oversubscribed bond pipelines, and systemic delays. (00:08:13) City of Yes and the Housing Paradigm Shift How zoning reform changed the conversation from “only affordable” to “more housing.” (00:11:51) Finding Housing Through Urban Studies How Seth’s upbringing in Essex County shaped his understanding of place and equity. (00:15:09) Falling in Love With Housing Policy From Senate hearings on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to a career-defining realization. (00:21:05) Breaking Into Affordable Housing LinkedIn outreach, HPD internships, and learning LIHTC from the inside. (00:27:23) From Developer to Deputy Mayor’s Office Why firsthand development experience matters in public-sector housing leadership. (00:35:24) Day-to-Day Reality: Closing Season What December looks like inside NYC housing finance and why relationships matter. LINKS: YouTube: https://youtu.be/TmNgZn5UYRs Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9 KEYWORDS: affordable housing, New York City housing, housing policy, City of Yes, housing development, LIHTC, NYCHA, urban studies, housing finance

    47 min
  3. Beyond the Resume with Audrey Symes (Inside Human Capital Analytics)

    JAN 26

    Beyond the Resume with Audrey Symes (Inside Human Capital Analytics)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Audrey Symes, Head of Research at Human Capital Analytics, to explore how data, research, and macroeconomic trends are reshaping hiring and talent strategy across real estate, investment banking, and asset management. Audrey shares her unconventional career journey—from economics at Stanford to real estate research at Deutsche Bank, Prologis, JLL, and Partners Group—and explains how those experiences shaped her approach to predictive analytics, workforce planning, and thought leadership. The conversation dives deep into how executive search firms can move beyond intuition by leveraging proprietary data, market mapping, compensation studies, and AI-powered research tools. The episode also explores the evolving role of AI in research, the skills required to succeed in a data-driven world, and why reading, writing, and critical thinking are more important than ever. Audrey closes with practical career advice for early professionals, book recommendations that shaped her thinking, and daily habits that help her stay grounded while building a modern research platform. This episode is a must-listen for professionals interested in talent strategy, data-driven decision-making, and the future of work. Chapters (03:10) What Human Capital Analytics Does—and Why It Matters (06:05) Audrey’s Career Journey: Economics, Real Estate & Research (10:40) Learning from Market Cycles and Industry Evolution (14:35) Turning Search Data into Strategic Insight (18:55) Predictive Analytics, Surveys & Workforce Trends (22:45) AI in Research: Tools, Limits, and Opportunities (26:40) Skills That Matter: Reading, Writing, and the “So What” (30:55) Books, Mentors & Habits That Shape Great Researchers (34:40) Advice for Early-Career Professionals & Closing Thoughts LINKS YouTube: https://youtu.be/Srno63IEHSM Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

    38 min
  4. Beyond the Resume with Andrea Osgood (Finding Eden in Affordable Housing)

    JAN 20

    Beyond the Resume with Andrea Osgood (Finding Eden in Affordable Housing)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Andrea Osgood, Chief of Real Estate Development and Executive Vice President at Eden Housing, one of California’s most influential affordable housing developers. With more than 57 years of impact, Eden Housing has developed over 160 projects and 13,000 affordable homes serving families, seniors, and special needs communities across the state. Andrea shares her personal journey from growing up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, to studying liberal arts at Pomona College, earning a Master’s in Urban Planning from UCLA, and building a 17-year career at Eden Housing. The conversation dives deep into how affordable housing deals actually get done in California, including the role of Low-Income Housing Tax Credits, public-private partnerships, inclusionary zoning, and local and state funding sources. The episode also explores modular construction, cost containment strategies, advocacy at the local and state level, and how emerging tools like AI and knowledge management systems are shaping the future of housing development. Andrea offers candid advice for students and early-career professionals interested in affordable housing, emphasizing risk management, communication skills, and financial literacy. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in affordable housing development, urban planning, nonprofit leadership, real estate careers, and housing policy, especially in high-cost markets like California. CHAPTERS (00:38) Meet Andrea Osgood & Eden Housing’s MissionAndrea introduces Eden Housing, its IHOP beginnings, and its statewide impact after nearly six decades of development. (02:47) How Affordable Housing Deals Get FinancedA clear breakdown of tax credits, permanent loans, and layered public funding that make projects possible in California. (05:02) A 17-Year Career at One OrganizationWhy Andrea stayed at Eden Housing, and how nonprofit real estate blends mission with business rigor. (09:03) From Liberal Arts to Urban PlanningAndrea explains how urban planning became the perfect bridge between creativity, policy, and the built environment. (14:46) How Eden Housing Finds New DealsRFPs, inclusionary zoning partnerships, and land acquisition strategies explained. (18:43) Modular Construction & Cost InnovationLessons learned from modular projects in Vallejo and Hayward—and why standardization is still a challenge. (24:22) Housing Advocacy & Local LeadershipAndrea discusses San Mateo County advocacy, Measure K, and her return to Tulsa through housing impact work. (28:02) Advice for Students Entering Housing DevelopmentThe skills, mindset, and experience young professionals need to succeed in affordable housing.

    38 min
  5. JAN 12

    Beyond the Resume Webinar Series (Faith-Based Development Initiatives in Affordable Housing)

    Faith-based organizations have played a central role in affordable housing and community development for generations — and today, that role is expanding at scale. In this episode, we bring you a powerful panel discussion on Faith-Based Development Initiatives in Affordable Housing, featuring leaders from nonprofit development, finance, faith institutions, and community partnerships. Hosted by Chris Papa (Founding Partner, Jackson Lucas) and Kristin Niver (Affordable Housing Attorney, Robinson + Cole), this conversation explores why churches, mosques, synagogues, and faith-affiliated nonprofits are uniquely positioned to help address America’s housing crisis. Panelists discuss the historic roots of faith-based development, the growing professionalization of these efforts, and how underutilized land owned by houses of worship could unlock hundreds of thousands of new affordable homes nationwide. You’ll hear firsthand insights from: Russell Lang, President & CEO of Catholic Homes NYJacqueline West-Spencer, SVP of Real Estate at Wesley HousingDavid Bowers, VP & National Faith-Based Development Advisor at Enterprise Community PartnersRonald Quarshie, representing First Baptist Church Gresham Road (Atlanta)The panel dives deep into trust-building with congregations, structuring equitable development partnerships, financing and subsidy challenges, resident services, and the realities of long-term stewardship. This episode is essential listening for developers, lenders, policymakers, faith leaders, and anyone interested in affordable housing solutions rooted in mission, equity, and community impact. Chapters (02:40) Introductions: hosts Chris Papa & Kristin Niver (05:10) Panelist introductions and organizational backgrounds (10:15) The historical role of faith-based organizations in affordable housing (15:40) Why faith-based development is scaling and becoming professionalized (21:30) Housing supply shortages, underutilized church land & “radical common sense” (28:10) Mission-driven development models from Catholic Homes & Wesley Housing (34:45) Building trust with congregations and surrounding communities (40:20) Strengths and complexities of faith-based development partnerships (46:15) Financing, subsidies, and long-term stewardship considerations (52:05) Audience Q&A: barriers to entry, capacity building, and policy support (59:10) Closing reflections and next steps for faith-based housing initiatives YouTube: https://youtu.be/eX_TBVk1kUQ Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

    1h 2m
  6. JAN 5

    Beyond the Resume with Matt Wassel (Real Estate's Cold Boom)

    In this episode, Chris Papa sits down with Matt Wassel of Saxum Real Estate to unpack how the firm evolved from value-add redevelopment in New Jersey to becoming one of the most active cold storage and food-focused real estate developers in the country. Matt explains Saxum’s three core verticals—cold storage and food processing, dry industrial, and residential built-to-rent—and how each aligns with long-term demographic and supply-chain trends. The conversation dives deep into why cold storage has emerged as a critical asset class, driven by changing consumer food habits, grocery store evolution, and the need to modernize an aging food supply chain. Matt also shares his personal career journey, from brokerage at CBRE to becoming one of the earliest hires at Saxum, and reflects on mentorship, firm culture, and the value of learning multiple asset classes at a growing platform. Chris and Matt also discuss career advice for young professionals entering real estate, the importance of soft skills, building a company culture that prioritizes long-term alignment, and how Saxum is beginning to thoughtfully integrate AI into its business development and site selection processes. (01:04) Saxum’s three core real estate verticals (02:45) From New Jersey redevelopment to national growth (06:53) Why cold storage is booming right now (09:26) Leasing strategy and tenant-driven development (13:31) Matt’s career path: brokerage to development (24:25) Skills, mentorship, and advice for real estate careers (29:14) The future of Saxum and the role of AI YouTube: https://youtu.be/MN8PCumztcg Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

    37 min
  7. Beyond the Resume with Tim Henkel (Gratitude Throwback Series)

    12/15/2025

    Beyond the Resume with Tim Henkel (Gratitude Throwback Series)

    In this Gratitude Throwback episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa revisits a powerful conversation with Timothy Henkel, SVP and Partner at Pennrose, one of the nation’s leading affordable housing developers. Recorded during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, the episode explores Tim’s winding career path—from civil engineering to affordable housing development—and the deep sense of purpose that has defined his more than 20 years at Pennrose. Tim offers an inside look at how affordable housing development works, including how Low-Income Housing Tax Credits are awarded, why competition for them is so intense, and how developers must align public policy, community needs, and financial feasibility. He shares stories of complex projects, including a transformative redevelopment in Meriden, Connecticut, and discusses the role of collaboration with municipalities, nonprofits, and residents. Throughout the conversation, gratitude emerges as a central theme: gratitude for partners, mentors, communities, and the opportunity to do work that genuinely improves people’s lives. Tim reflects on why affordable housing is foundational to health, stability, and opportunity—and why so many people in the field see it as their life’s work. The episode closes with personal reflections, career advice, and a reminder that empathy and perspective matter just as much as technical skill. Chapters (01:06) Meet Tim Henkel and an overview of Pennrose’s history and growth (03:58) Affordable housing vs. market-rate development and how tax credits shape projects (08:47) Competing for Low-Income Housing Tax Credits and navigating public policy (11:04) Community resistance, consensus-building, and where affordable housing gets built (13:26) A standout project: Meriden, Connecticut and the power of collaboration (20:36) Why affordable housing is life’s work and its impact on residents’ health and stability (32:39) Tim’s career journey, gratitude for partnership, and advice for future developers YouTube: https://youtu.be/_3KoZIHZQvw Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

    42 min

Ratings & Reviews

4.5
out of 5
8 Ratings

About

Co-hosted by industry veterans, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker, the weekly Beyond the Resume Podcast features interviews with some of the best known real estate experts in the U.S. By exploring how they built their successful careers and the impact they have made to the communities around them we hope to educate and inspire anyone building or thinking of building a career in real estate. Join us as we go Beyond the Resume.

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