Beyond the Resume

Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker

Co-hosted by industry veterans, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker, the weekly Beyond the Resume Podcast features interviews with some of the best known real estate experts in the U.S. By exploring how they built their successful careers and the impact they have made to the communities around them we hope to educate and inspire anyone building or thinking of building a career in real estate. Join us as we go Beyond the Resume.

  1. Beyond the Resume podcast with AJ Jackson (Investing in the Missing Middle)

    3D AGO

    Beyond the Resume podcast with AJ Jackson (Investing in the Missing Middle)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker speak with AJ Jackson, President of Leo Impact Capital, about investing in the missing middle through naturally occurring affordable housing, mixed-income communities, and resident-centered operating strategies. AJ explains how Leo Impact Capital focuses on everyday working renters: teachers, first responders, service technicians, clerks, IT workers, and others who often earn too much to qualify for subsidized housing but still struggle to afford market rents in high-opportunity neighborhoods.AJ breaks down Leo’s investment approach, including the role of NOAH preservation, long-term affordability, social connection, rent reporting, credit building, tax abatement, sustainability investments, and partnerships with local nonprofits like The Lotus Campaign. The conversation also explores AJ’s career path from Capitol Hill and GSA to real estate development and impact investing, along with broader reflections on career exploration, mental health, leadership, hiring, mentorship, and why thriving communities cannot afford to lose the middle.Chapters(00:00) Meet AJ Jackson and Leo Impact CapitalAJ introduces Leo Impact Capital and explains the firm’s focus on financial mobility for everyday working renters through real estate investment, strong locations, and social connection.(00:54) Investing in the Missing MiddleAJ defines the “missing middle” renter: people who are over income for public housing support but still financially pressed by rent, transportation, healthcare, student loans, and other costs.(04:21) Solving the Housing CliffLisa connects AJ’s work to the benefits cliff, and AJ explains how mixed-income properties can create flexibility for residents as their income rises.(05:39) Charlotte, Credit Building and Resident ImpactAJ walks through Leo’s Charlotte investment, its partnership with The Lotus Campaign, units reserved for residents at risk of homelessness, and the power of rent reporting to help residents build credit.(11:39) Tax Abatement, Sustainability and NOAH PreservationThe conversation turns to tax abatement, energy audits, capital planning, and why AJ sees naturally occurring affordable housing as a critical but under-recognized part of the housing affordability landscape.(15:36) From Alabama to Real Estate InvestmentAJ reflects on attending the University of Alabama, beginning his career in politics, working at GSA, going to business school, and eventually finding his way into development and impact investing.(20:24) Career Lessons, Flexibility and Mental HealthAJ shares the skills that have shaped his career, including moving between big-picture strategy and small details, knowing where passion and talent intersect, and protecting energy, mood, and mental health.(25:54) Making the Middle InvestableAJ discusses the investment case for NOAH, the challenge of helping investors understand the asset class, and why stable, well-located, affordable housing for middle-income renters remains a major opportunity.(29:20) The Hot Seat: Books, Podcasts and HabitsAJ shares what he listens to, including The Rest Is History, Founders, and MeatEater, while reflecting on the patterns and habits that show up across successful entrepreneurs and leaders.(35:29) Hiring for Writing, Grit and Critical ThinkingAJ explains what he looks for when hiring: strong writing, entrepreneurial drive, hunger for the work, and the ability to think through problems rather than simply chase the “right” answer.(37:19) Mentorship, Purpose and the MiddleAJ closes by reflecting on the mentors who shaped his sense of purpose-driven work, win-win solutions, and why communities need the middle in order to thrive.--AJ Jackson, Leo Impact Capital, missing middle housing, naturally occurring affordable housing, NOAH preservation, impact investing, affordable housing, mixed-income housing, financial mobility

    40 min
  2. Beyond the Resume podcast with Dan Rosen (Real estate, only harder)

    MAY 11

    Beyond the Resume podcast with Dan Rosen (Real estate, only harder)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, we sit down with Daniel Rosen of Klein Hornig, an affordable housing and community development attorney whose work centers on helping clients structure, finance, preserve, and close complex affordable housing transactions. Dan shares how he found his way into affordable housing law during law school, after discovering a career path that brought together social justice, race, cities, place, policy, and mission-driven legal work. He explains why affordable housing law is often “real estate, harder,” with transactions that require deep knowledge of tax credits, HUD approvals, regulatory structures, multiple funding sources, and highly technical financing tools. The conversation explores how the affordable housing landscape has changed over Dan’s career, especially as projects have become more ambitious, more expensive, and more layered. Dan discusses the growing complexity of deals involving historic rehab, distressed housing redevelopment, mixed-income and mixed-use projects, church properties, office-to-residential conversions, and multi-source financing structures. Chris, Lisa, and Dan also discuss career paths into affordable housing law, the value of being purposeful in professional choices, and why relationship-building matters even in deeply technical legal work. Dan reflects on the difference between working in-house and serving multiple clients through private practice, the importance of closers in affordable housing transactions, and the role of mentors in shaping his career and the DNA of Klein Hornig. The episode closes with Dan’s thoughts on the future of affordable housing, rising development costs, political and policy challenges, AI in legal practice, and the balance between mission, technical expertise, and practical execution. CHAPTERS (02:07) Finding Affordable Housing Law by Accident Dan explains how he stumbled into the field during law school and found a practice that connected his interests in social justice, race, cities, and place. (03:30) “Real Estate, Harder” Dan breaks down what makes affordable housing law different from conventional real estate, including tax credits, HUD regulations, financing structures, and deal complexity. (06:40) Why Deals Keep Getting More Complex The conversation turns to rising costs, layered financing sources, ambitious projects, and why clients are often forced to assemble six, eight, or ten funding sources to close a gap. (08:26) Building a Career in Affordable Housing Law Dan discusses how law students and attorneys can enter the field, whether through affordable housing firms, commercial real estate, tax, government, or mission-driven legal work. (12:03) Relationships Beyond the Desk Chris and Lisa explore Dan’s approach to networking, brand-building, ULI involvement, and why showing up became part of helping grow a successful legal practice. (18:20) Costs, Complexity, and the Industry Outlook Dan reflects on the future of affordable housing, tax credit improvements, political energy around housing, rising per-unit costs, and serious challenges facing nonprofit clients and residents. (28:12) AI, Timekeeping, and Legal Tech Dan shares how Klein Hornig is beginning to explore AI, including AI-assisted timekeeping, search tools, and the potential impact of document review and generation on legal practice. YouTube: https://youtu.be/a4DiHVMRsLY Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

    34 min
  3. Beyond the Resume podcast with Paul Weissman (The raddest financing puzzle)

    MAY 4

    Beyond the Resume podcast with Paul Weissman (The raddest financing puzzle)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Paul Weissman, Senior Managing Director and Head of Affordable Housing Production at Lument, for a wide-ranging conversation on affordable housing finance, career development, and the human side of real estate. Paul explains Lument’s work as a multifamily commercial real estate lender with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and FHA lending capabilities, while also tracing the company’s legacy through Red Capital, Lancaster Pollard, Hunt Real Estate Capital, CharterMac, and Centerline. Paul shares how an unconventional path, from studying foreign languages to living in France, the Soviet Union, and Taiwan, eventually led him into law school, business school, tax credit syndication, bond transactions, and affordable housing finance. His story offers practical career advice for students and emerging professionals interested in real estate, LIHTC, tax-exempt bonds, FHA lending, and multifamily housing. The conversation also dives into why affordable housing deals are more like complex, three-dimensional puzzles than straightforward real estate transactions. Paul discusses the evolving challenges of tax credit pricing, taxable debt, recycled bonds, state subsidies, subordinate financing, and the many public and private stakeholders involved in getting a project across the finish line. The episode closes with reflections on AI in lending, the importance of getting out from behind the desk to see the impact of affordable housing firsthand, the value of mentorship, and why Paul looks for interesting, thoughtful people when hiring. It is a grounded and insightful episode for anyone interested in affordable housing, real estate finance, career pivots, and the people behind mission-driven development. CHAPTERS (03:07) From Foreign Languages to Affordable Housing Paul reflects on studying languages, living abroad, teaching English in Taiwan, and eventually finding his way into law, business school, real estate development, and tax credit work. (07:59) Where Lenders Fit in the Deal Cycle Paul explains how lenders often enter the affordable housing process when developers are applying for bonds, credits, or other financing, while also serving as early-stage consultants for clients. (11:02) Affordable Housing as a Complex Puzzle The conversation explores why affordable housing transactions require comfort with uncertainty, constant problem-solving, and the ability to balance competing sources, uses, stakeholders, and requirements. (18:13) Why Scale Is Hard in Affordable Housing Paul and Chris discuss the growing role of large institutions in affordable housing and why approvals, transaction complexity, and smaller deal sizes make the sector difficult to scale quickly. (20:48) Learning LIHTC From Scratch Paul shares that he entered the field without knowing what a low-income housing tax credit or cap rate was, then built his knowledge through conferences, experts, trial and error, and self-directed learning. (26:27) Seeing the Impact in Person Paul describes the value of visiting affordable housing properties, including watching a Denver project rise from his office window and later seeing the transformation of a major RAD transaction with NYCHA. (29:59) AI, Efficiency, and Better Lending Workflows Paul discusses how AI may help lenders summarize reports and improve efficiency, while emphasizing caution around sensitive information, accuracy, and using AI to support rather than make decisions. --- affordable housing, Lument, Paul Weissman, Beyond the Resume, LIHTC, tax credit equity, FHA lending, Fannie Mae Freddie Mac, multifamily finance, real estate career advice

    42 min
  4. Beyond the Resume Podcast with Thalia Lankin (Stop overthinking your career)

    APR 27

    Beyond the Resume Podcast with Thalia Lankin (Stop overthinking your career)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, hosts Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker sit down with Thalia Lankin, Chief Operating Officer at the NHP Foundation, to unpack a career rooted in purpose, impact, and strategic leadership in affordable housing. Thalia shares her journey from Western Massachusetts to the University of Pennsylvania, and how an early exposure to inequality shaped her commitment to housing accessibility. She dives into her experience working with the Millennial Housing Commission, her 15-year tenure in institutional investment at the Housing Investment Trust, and her transition into the development side of the business. Listeners will gain insight into how affordable housing actually works—from capital markets to development, operations, and resident services—and why wages, supply, and system-level thinking are critical to solving the housing crisis. Thalia also breaks down the real role of a COO, how to scale organizations effectively, and what it takes to lead with both empathy and accountability. She offers candid advice for students and young professionals, emphasizing curiosity, decision-making, and adaptability as the most valuable career skills. The conversation also explores emerging topics like AI in real estate operations, leadership development, hiring philosophy, and the future of property management. If you're interested in real estate, affordable housing, leadership, or mission-driven careers, this episode delivers practical insights and real-world perspective from one of the industry’s most thoughtful operators. CHAPTERS (00:36) Inside the NHP Foundation Thalia explains NHP’s mission, scale, and impact across 16 states. (02:39) Choosing Affordable Housing Over Traditional Finance The pivotal decision to pursue purpose-driven work. (04:32) What a COO Actually Does Breaking down operations, strategy, and organizational leadership. (06:50) Early Career and Affordable Housing Crash Course The Millennial Housing Commission and formative industry exposure. (12:28) Wages, Unions, and Housing Affordability How income levels shape the affordability equation. (14:45) Transitioning from Capital Markets to Development Key differences and lessons learned on the development side. (16:19) AI in Real Estate and Property Management Opportunities and challenges in adopting new technologies. (19:24) Leadership Style and Managing Teams Inclusive leadership, radical candor, and team development. (22:04) Career Advice for Young Professionals Curiosity, decision-making, and overcoming fear of failure.

    32 min
  5. APR 20

    Beyond the Resume podcast with Jeremy Hoffman (Zen & the Art of Affordable Housing

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa sits down with Jeremy Hoffman, COO of Zen, an affordable housing development consulting firm, to unpack a non-linear career journey that spans architecture, global travel, public policy, and large-scale housing development. Jeremy shares how a chance encounter abroad led him into real estate development, and how his experience at the New York City Department of Housing Preservation and Development (HPD) shaped his expertise in policy, finance, and execution. Now back in California, he’s helping scale a consulting firm while leading affordable housing projects across the state. This conversation explores the intersection of mission-driven work, technical skill-building, and career adaptability, offering valuable insight for anyone interested in affordable housing, urban development, or breaking into the industry. Key Topics Covered • Affordable housing development in California vs. New York • Career pivots and non-linear professional paths • Financial modeling and real estate fundamentals • The role of consultants in housing development • Policy, zoning, and public-sector influence • Skills needed to succeed in affordable housing Chapters (00:00) – Introduction & Wearing Multiple Hats Jeremy shares what it means to be COO of a growing consulting firm while balancing family life and development work. (02:15) – What Zen Does: Affordable Housing Consulting Explained An inside look at how Zen supports developers—from financing strategy to full project management. (05:00) – Growing Up in Oakland & Early Career Influences Jeremy’s upbringing, architectural roots, and early exposure to the built environment. (07:45) – From Construction to Global Travel A pivot away from traditional paths, including time in New York and traveling through Southeast Asia. (10:00) – The Turning Point: Discovering Real Estate Development A chance meeting abroad introduces Jeremy to development as a career. (12:30) – Grad School & Falling in Love with Financial Modeling How Jeremy built technical skills and entered the affordable housing space. (15:00) – NYC HPD: Policy, Power, and Real Impact Working inside New York City government and helping shape inclusionary zoning policy. (18:30) – Transition Back to California Returning to the Bay Area and adapting to a very different affordable housing landscape. (21:00) – Developer vs. Consultant: Key Differences Why Jeremy made the move into consulting—and what makes it compelling. (24:00) – Inside Affordable Housing Deals Breaking down complexity: partnerships, financing layers, and execution challenges. (27:00) – Career Advice: How to Break Into Affordable Housing Why there’s no single path—and what skills actually matter. (30:00) – Habits, Mentors & Personal Growth Daily routines, leadership lessons, and the mentors who shaped Jeremy’s career.

    34 min
  6. APR 13

    Beyond the Resume Podcast (Webinar series) I Rural Affordable Housing: Innovation, Constraints, and the Capital Stack

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa is joined by an expert panel moderated by Kristin Niver (Robinson+Cole), featuring leaders from across the rural housing ecosystem: Brian Depew — Center for Rural AffairsTom Collishaw — Self-Help EnterprisesSarah Kackar — NeighborWorks AmericaNadia Villagran — Local Initiatives Support Corporation (LISC)Together, they unpack the realities of rural affordable housing—where limited scale, complex financing, and infrastructure gaps demand creativity, collaboration, and resilience. From deep-dive capital stacks to community-driven innovation, this conversation reveals why rural housing requires an entirely different playbook than urban development. Why rural housing projects are harder to finance—and easier to derailHow USDA programs underpin nearly all rural developmentThe hidden role of developers as “orchestrators” in small communitiesWhy preservation (rehab) is just as critical as new constructionHow rural communities are quietly leading with innovationThe growing risks tied to federal funding uncertaintyCHAPTERS (02:15) – How Rural Housing Differs from Urban MarketsBrian Depew explains the realities of scale: smaller projects, fewer players, and why even a handful of units can shift an entire market. (07:10) – The San Joaquin Valley Case StudyTom Collishaw shares 60+ years of work at Self-Help Enterprises, including mutual self-help housing and the evolution of farmworker housing. (13:40) – Innovation Born from ConstraintNadia Villagran highlights how rural communities leverage collaboration, local knowledge, and resourcefulness to solve complex challenges. (18:55) – Why Rural Is Not MonolithicSarah Kackar breaks down the diversity across rural America and why one-size-fits-all solutions consistently fall short. (24:30) – Preservation vs. New ConstructionA deep dive into aging housing stock, rehab strategies, and why small-dollar fixes can have outsized impact. (29:45) – Inside the Rural Capital StackTom Collishaw walks through a typical deal—layered funding, thin margins, and heavy reliance on USDA programs. (36:20) – The Role (and Limits) of CDFIs & CRA CapitalBrian Depew discusses building flexible capital pools and why CRA-driven bank investment often misses rural communities. (42:10) – Collaborative Lending & Manufactured HousingSarah Kackar explores shared-risk lending models and why modern manufactured housing is an underutilized solution. (47:30) – Predevelopment Funding & Policy UncertaintyNadia Villagran outlines the importance of early-stage capital—and the growing concern over unstable federal funding. (52:15) – Audience Q&A: Investors, Opportunity Zones & InnovationThe panel responds to questions on tax credit investors, Opportunity Zones 2.0, and emerging financing tools. (57:30) – Clean Energy, Private Capital & What’s NextDiscussion on integrating sustainability and how private capital may step in amid public funding uncertainty.

    59 min
  7. Beyond the Resume Podcast with Shike Goedar (Create your own seat)

    APR 6

    Beyond the Resume Podcast with Shike Goedar (Create your own seat)

    In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Lisa Flicker sits down with Shike Goedar, President and Chief Investment Officer of Arden Logistics Parks, to unpack a dynamic career journey through real estate, private equity, and entrepreneurship. From starting in debt capital markets during the early days of the financial crisis to transitioning into the buy side and ultimately building a $1.5B industrial platform from the ground up, Shike shares firsthand insights on navigating market cycles, making strategic career pivots, and creating opportunity in uncertain environments. Listeners will gain valuable perspective on: Breaking into real estate and private equityMoving from debt to equity rolesThe importance of mentorship and networkingWhy smaller firms can offer outsized career growthLeadership development and hiring for gritHow AI is reshaping the future of work in real estateWhether you're a student, early-career professional, or seasoned investor, this episode delivers actionable advice on building a resilient, high-impact career in today’s evolving real estate landscape. CHAPTERS (00:00) Cold Starts & Career Beginnings Intro and Shike’s early interest in real estate during college(02:05) From Atlanta to Wall Street Paths Choosing a smaller firm over large institutions for broader exposure(04:02) Financial Crisis Pivot Layoffs, timing, and transitioning to the buy side in 2008(06:25) Breaking Into Private Equity Business school, networking, and landing a role at a growing platform(08:46) Scaling Platforms & Finding Niches Industrial real estate focus and growth at Northstar(10:01) Career Strategy: Experience Over Prestige Why smaller teams can accelerate learning and impact(13:40) From Operator to Leader Leadership evolution, hiring smarter people, and building teams(18:50) AI, Communication & Future Skills Technology shifts and the enduring importance of human connection(25:30) Hiring for Grit What separates top candidates beyond credentials

    27 min
  8. Beyond the Resume with Matthew Janeczko (Finding Faith in Housing)

    MAR 30

    Beyond the Resume with Matthew Janeczko (Finding Faith in Housing)

    How do you go from Catholic friar to leading a rapidly growing affordable housing organization? In this episode of Beyond the Resume, host Chris Papa sits down with Matthew Janeczko, CEO of Sisters of Charity Housing Development Corporation, to unpack one of the most unconventional journeys into affordable housing leadership. Matthew shares how he accidentally entered the industry with no prior experience—and went on to double his organization’s housing portfolio to 1,500 units across New York. From faith-based development to scaling operations, he explains how mission-driven work, problem-solving, and relationship-building have fueled rapid growth. This conversation dives deep into: The critical role of affordable housing in addressing homelessnessHow faith-based organizations are shaping housing developmentWhy there’s no “cookie-cutter” path into the industryThe importance of services, tenant stability, and community-buildingLeadership lessons from the priesthood applied to real estate development Whether you’re looking to break into affordable housing, scale a mission-driven organization, or better understand how housing impacts lives, this episode offers practical insights and powerful perspective. CHAPTERS (00:24) Origins of Sisters of Charity Housing (03:54) Scaling to 1,500 Units and Building a System (05:12) From Catholic Priest to Housing CEO (07:17) Learning Affordable Housing During the Pandemic (08:53) Growth Strategy: Faith, Relationships, and Opportunity (10:39) Faith-Based Development Challenges and Opportunities (13:07) No Cookie-Cutter Approach to Housing (16:42) Housing as the Foundation for Stability (18:55) Vision: 2,000 Units by 2030 (23:45) Daily Routine and Fatherhood Grounding (25:16) Hiring Philosophy and Building Culture LINKS YouTube: https://youtu.be/V9Q54I9VDCE Spotify: https://bit.ly/beyondtheresume-spotify Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3I3nkG9

    28 min

Ratings & Reviews

4.5
out of 5
8 Ratings

About

Co-hosted by industry veterans, Chris Papa and Lisa Flicker, the weekly Beyond the Resume Podcast features interviews with some of the best known real estate experts in the U.S. By exploring how they built their successful careers and the impact they have made to the communities around them we hope to educate and inspire anyone building or thinking of building a career in real estate. Join us as we go Beyond the Resume.

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