In this episode of CEOs & ABCs, Kevin sits down with Barbara Perry and Harry Hutson, co-authors of Hope at Work, to explore why hope isn't a soft, passive emotion but an active, strategic capability, optimism combined with agency, and why that same combination is what moves a leader, a team, or a family from merely surviving to truly thriving. Barbara Perry is a cultural anthropologist who has spent 35 years running ethnographic research inside companies like Procter & Gamble, Unilever, and Johnson & Johnson, uncovering possibilities those organizations couldn't see from the inside. Harry Hutson spent 25 years as a senior HR and organizational development executive at Cummins, Avery Dennison, Global Knowledge, and Devon Energy before becoming an executive coach profiled by Inc Magazine, and now teaches at UNC's Kenan-Flagler Business School. Their research together spans five decades and lands on one throughline: hope only functions as a strategy when optimism is paired with agency, the gritty, actionable belief that you can actually influence what happens next. The clearest proof of that distinction shows up in a story Barbara tells about a company that had just been sold to a private equity firm. The leadership team wasn't short on optimism, people kept telling themselves things would work out, but they had quietly given up their agency: everyone backed off, decided the situation was too big to touch, and started acting like victims of circumstance instead of people who could still shape what happened next. That's optimism without agency, and Barbara and Harry are clear that it isn't hope, it's just waiting. Harry ties the same mechanic straight to parenting with a memory of teaching his son to drive on narrow New England roads, gripping the door handle and resisting the urge to grab the wheel, because agency a person never gets to use isn't agency at all. Give a team or a kid the belief that things could work out with no real room to act, and you get exactly what that private equity company got: people who quietly stop trying. Barbara doesn't dress this up. She still carries a specific memory of missing her son's third grade play because she was traveling for work, and at fifty-one, he still brings it up. She calls it a way for him to stick the knife in mother once in a while, not a lifelong wound, just proof that showing up has a real cost and the ledger doesn't disappear because your intentions were good. That's the honesty running under the whole conversation: grace for yourself doesn't mean the missed moments didn't happen. This is a conversation about the difference between hoping for the best and building the capability to act on it, and why that same combination, optimism plus agency, is what decides whether a struggling team, or a struggling family, ends up surviving or actually thriving. IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN: Why hope is optimism plus agency, and why optimism on its own is just a feeling with nothing behind it What happened inside a company right after it was sold to private equity, when the leadership team's optimism stayed intact but their agency quietly disappeared The five specific elements that turn hope into something you can act on: possibility, agency, worth, openness, and connection Why "we've always done it this way" is the exact sound of the possibility principle going quiet inside a successful company How Kevin's own experience selling his company to private equity tested his sense of agency in real time, and what he lost when the autonomy went away Why praising a kid for winning and praising a kid for trying are both traps, and what worth looks like when it's not tied to performance The difference between transparency and oversharing, and how Kevin decided what to tell his ten-year-old about his mother's absence Why connection at work and at ho... Chapters (00:00:00) - Hope vs. Optimism(00:00:54) - Meet Barbara Perry & Harry Hutson(00:01:48) - Why They Wrote "Hope Is the Strategy"(00:02:48) - The Five Principles of Hope(00:04:53) - What Hope Actually Is (It's Not Positivity)(00:06:42) - The Blind Spot Even Successful Companies Miss(00:08:19) - Agency: What Separates Hope From Optimism(00:10:25) - Kevin's Story: Losing Agency After Selling His Company(00:11:36) - Bringing Hope Into a Room of 150 Executives(00:13:11) - Translating Hope From the Boardroom to the Home(00:17:23) - The Conflicting Advice Every Parent Gets(00:19:07) - What Accidentally Teaches a Child to Give Up(00:22:22) - Why Kids Can Smell Fake Encouragement(00:23:23) - Walking Through the Five Principles, One at a Time(00:26:37) - How to Diagnose an Organization's Blind Spot(00:30:07) - Possibility at Home: Passion Over Probability(00:32:22) - Hope Doesn't Promise Certainty. It Builds Capacity.(00:35:09) - Agency vs. Autonomy: Where the Line Actually Is(00:39:28) - Worth: Are You Only as Good as Your Last Win?(00:39:58) - Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic Value(00:42:37) - Kevin on Losing His Identity After the Acquisition(00:45:02) - Openness: The Line Between Learning and Oversharing(00:48:36) - What Kevin Tells His Son About a Hard Truth at Home(00:49:29) - Connection: The Cost of Leading Without It(00:51:30) - Kevin's "Robot Mode" Story(00:52:10) - How to Build Hope Like a Muscle(00:54:23) - The Five Principles in 60 Seconds