(Full episode for paid subscribers on Substack.) I have been lucky enough to interview Liz Gilbert multiple times over the years. First almost ten years ago now, when I launched my podcast Ctrl Alt Delete in 2016. We spoke on Skype, the audio was tinny, it was the early days of podcasting, I was in my mid-twenties recording from my spare box-room in my old Hackney flat. I remember how magical it felt to be speaking with a woman I admired so much. I was invited to her book launch luncheon for Big Magic in London members’ club and I sat with journalists ten years older than me. I interviewed Liz again in 2019, when I was writing my first novel Olive, and her brilliant novel City of Girls was published. I went to the Bloomsbury offices on a bright sunny day, walking through Bedford Square Gardens with a t-shirt that said Sigourney Weaver on it. In April last year, I had the honour of introducing Liz on stage in front of thousands of people at the Barbican as part of her UK tour, and I got to attend one of her sold-out creativity workshops. As readers, we get to see all her different eras. During our conversation, we call the writing life ‘living out loud’ and ‘learning in public.’ For many Millennial women like me, Liz has been an unapologetic symbol of living a creative life, leaning into solitude, travel, adventure—and quite frankly: doing whatever you want with your one wild and precious life. Before All the Way to the River came out this year—her new memoir all about her all-consuming relationship with her late partner Rayya Elias—I was lucky enough to read an early copy in proof form. I was absolutely glued to it, pretty much ignoring my husband for two days, totally immersed in Liz’s world. I love Liz’s novels for this reason, they’re big and expansive, an intricately built world to escape into, and I love this about Liz’s non-fiction too—she lets us into the full truth of what’s been going on in her life and shows us around. She did it in Eat Pray Love, Committed, and now this new book. It takes courage to say: Actually, you know what, I’m still a work in progress—and aren’t we all? She says life is full of ‘good guesses’ and it suggests that we should all have compassion for our past selves who were trying to figure out all of this *points around*. We don’t have to tie up our stories in pretty packages. We don’t have to be ‘consumed’ easily. We don’t have to have our personal stories confused with ‘giving advice’ or being a guru. We live in ever-changing lives and worlds. Life is messy—and so are the memoirs that follow. “I’ll see you in ten years with the next memoir. We’ll see what happens after this.” — Elizabeth Gilbert I loved interviewing Liz again this week, about our books, writing fiction vs non-fiction, ‘cooking’ our writing before publishing it, and why we do what we do. I also asked her for some friendly advice as my own memoir A Year of Nothing publishes in January. I hope you enjoy the conversation (and how progressively dark my office gets over the recording lol, it was 4pm in the UK i.e. winter hours!) xoxoxo Timestamps during our conversation: 00:00 - An introvert on tour06:00 - All The Way To The River and how it was born08:00 - Journalling vs ‘cooked’ writing10:00 - How would Eat Pray Love look in 2025?13:00 - Self-help vs memoir16:00 - Having respect for your readers18:30 - The myth of the ‘guru’20:00 - The fear of publishing a memoir23:00 - Dealing with judgment or criticism25:00 - The reason why we write books27:00 - When a memoir demands to be written30:00 - Writing the book you want to read34:00 - Choosing which form to write in37:00 - Fiction vs non-fiction 40:00 - Creativity and divinity 44:00 - “Success” isn’t enough47:00 - A darkness retreat50:00 - Martha Beck advice54:00 - What’s next for Liz 56:00 - US vs UK audiences1:00 - Where do we write?1:05 - Alone vs lonely1:07 - Women and invisibility 1:13 - The end! More on similiar topics: This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thehyphen.substack.com/subscribe
