Cross Lab

Steve Hohman & Olivia Espinosa
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Cross Lab

Cross Lab is where trial attorneys get hands-on with the art of constructive cross-examination. Hosted by career actors and expert storytellers Steve Hohman and Olivia Espinosa—who’ve played mock witnesses in over 1,500 cross-examinations—this podcast is packed with the POV you’re missing and won’t find anywhere else. Join us as we bring together your attorney peers for realistic cross simulations, where they’ll share their trials (and errors), personal insights, and real-world experiences. You’ll also discover how different approaches to the same witness can impact both their testimony and your jury’s perception. BONUS: No matter where you are in your career, you’ll bank TONS of fresh storytelling strategies, reusable cross chapters, and imagination-sparking word choices for your next depo or trial! Don’t miss our special Cross-Pollination episodes, where we explore the layers of effective storytelling for audiences, alongside industry collaborators. Tune in and subscribe to Cross Lab!

Episodes

  1. 1H AGO

    Emotionally charged divorced couple with Bibi Badejo

    In this episode of Cross Lab, hosts Steve Hohman and Olivia Espinosa are joined by barrister and advocacy coach Bibi Badejo. Watch Bibi cross-examine both Steve and Olivia, who portray a divorced couple where neither party has clean hands. Bibi skillfully challenges each of their stories and their roles in a complex, multi-suit case involving large sums of money, kids and old wounds. What’s covered in this episode:  The foundation you can lay that boxes any witness in—and pays off big timeA go-to framework for defending your client (even when their actions make zero sense)What your listener is really thinking when you’re sticking a witness to the questionThe sneaky way to trap a witness in their own admissionsHow to slice away a witness's opinion from the real evidence Time Stamps 00:00 What’s Cross Lab? 2:20 The question to ask yourself that steers the judge and jury where you want them 3:14 How to adjust your language for judges and juries—and what juries don't want from you 6:18 A genius ‘common sense’ strategy to defend your client’s actions (even when they don’t make sense) 17:00  Mock Case Overview: Butler vs. Butler 19:38 Bibi’s Cross on Dane Butler: One fact questions that lay the foundation for a big payoff! 38:18 Painting a picture with facts that corner the witness and let their discomfort tell your story. 43:01 How starting with general questions can trap a witness with their own admissions 48:28 What your listener is thinking when you hold a witness to the question 55:26 Cross of Lily: Expertly separating a witness's opinion from the real evidence 1:20:02 Repetition that works for you—no matter what the witness says Bibi’s website: https://www.theadvocacycoach.com/ The Advocacy Podcast https://www.theadvocacypodcast.com/ To get free resources for your next trial go to HausImprov.com

    1h 29m

  2. MAR 6

    Toxicologist and expert witness for the state on contaminated evidence

    In this episode of Cross Lab, hosts Steve Hohman and Olivia Espinosa are joined by plaintiff’s attorney Mark Choate and criminal defense/DUI attorneys Chuck Rathburn and Bruce Ringstrom.  Watch them cross-examine Olivia, who portrays a toxicologist and expert witness on behalf of the state. They’ll challenge the expert’s opinion on the validity of the BAC and blood draw procedures. What’s covered in this episode: How crossing an expert witness can change your word selectionThe hidden role gender can play in your cross-examinationAn easy demonstrative to illustrate percentage points for your juryUsing the expert to expose mishandlings in the case and create reasonable doubtWhat taking a moment to pause can do to a witnessThe trap you can fall into when you know their case well—and how to fix it Time Stamps 00:00 What’s Cross Lab? 04:05 How an expert witness can change your approach to word selection 12:06 Mock Case Overview: State of Washington vs. Oscar Phillips 13:28 Chuck Rathburn’s Cross: Painting a clear picture of contamination 27:05 Approaching gender with an expert? 33:03 Simple demonstratives to illustrate the difference a few percentage points can make in BAC levels 35:17 Mark Choate’s Cross: Determining the level of intoxication 45:51 Leveraging the expert to expose other mishandlings in the case and create reasonable doubt 53:06 Bruce Ringstrom’s Cross: Exposing the expert’s lack of hands-on involvement 1:06:46 The impact your reset has on a witness 1:10:14 Top takeaways if you had to cross a witness like this 1:12:37 The trap of knowing too much—and how to fix it To get free resources for your next trial go to HausImprov.com

    1h 17m

  3. FEB 18

    Expert radiologist for the defense with 800+ cases on their behalf

    In this episode of Cross Lab, hosts Steve Hohman and Olivia Espinosa welcome personal injury trial attorneys Susie Injijian and Jon Choate, along with personal injury and criminal defense attorney Russell Goodrow. Watch as these 3 attorneys cross-examine Steve, who portrays an expert radiologist on behalf of the defense.  They’ll challenge his opinion that only soft tissue injuries and pre-existing conditions—not lingering effects from MTBI—are present in the plaintiff.  What’s covered in this episode: Techniques for a 'yes, and' cross-examination that questions expert conclusionsHow to score points against an expert who protests too muchThe power of improvised loops to solidify words and concepts for the juryHow to leverage the power of what an expert doesn’t knowThe offensive word that will make an expert witness bristle (even if it’s the truth) Time Stamps 00:00 What’s Cross Lab? 3:18 How to start formulating a cross 6:22 Case Description: Sandra Little v. Grant School District & Gary Carpenter 9:20 Jon Choate’s cross: Word choice that paints a clear picture for the jury  19:35 How to stay out of an argument with the witness 29:40 Russell Goodrow’s cross: Loops to control a witness and an easy physical demonstrative 40:55 What to do when a witness that won’t answer the question 49:50 Susie Injijan’s cross: Techniques for being an effective teacher/guide for the jury 1:00:47 The word that no expert will want to hear (because it’s sooo good for you) 1:04:48 Your biggest weapon in the courtroom  1:09:44 Top takeaways of you had to cross a witness like this Would you like to be a guest or have an idea for a future episode, reach out to us here! Cross Lab is powered by LawPods. Get FREE narrative building resources for the courtroom here!

    1h 17m
  • 3 Episodes

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
2 Ratings

About

Cross Lab is where trial attorneys get hands-on with the art of constructive cross-examination. Hosted by career actors and expert storytellers Steve Hohman and Olivia Espinosa—who’ve played mock witnesses in over 1,500 cross-examinations—this podcast is packed with the POV you’re missing and won’t find anywhere else. Join us as we bring together your attorney peers for realistic cross simulations, where they’ll share their trials (and errors), personal insights, and real-world experiences. You’ll also discover how different approaches to the same witness can impact both their testimony and your jury’s perception. BONUS: No matter where you are in your career, you’ll bank TONS of fresh storytelling strategies, reusable cross chapters, and imagination-sparking word choices for your next depo or trial! Don’t miss our special Cross-Pollination episodes, where we explore the layers of effective storytelling for audiences, alongside industry collaborators. Tune in and subscribe to Cross Lab!

Information

  • Creator
    Steve Hohman & Olivia Espinosa
  • Years Active
    2K
  • Episodes
    3
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2025 Haus Team Productions
  • Show Website
    Cross Lab

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