The Persuasion Occasion

Perkins Coie LLP
  • 5.0 (15)
  • TECHNOLOGY

Welcome to the Persuasion Occasion. Hosted by Perkins Coie Consumer Products and Services litigators David Biderman and Jasmine Wetherell, each episode features a conversation with noted professionals about achieving success in disputes and negotiations. The discussions are not limited to the legal realm, as success demands incorporating teachings from a breadth of perspectives. David, a baby boomer, and Jasmine, a millennial, enhance the discussions with their multigenerational perspectives. Episode guests include negotiators and behavioral scientists. They provide practical advice, real world examples, and thoughtful strategies for surmounting the inevitable hurdles encountered in the worlds of litigation, business, and life. At the end of the day, isn’t life a series of disputes and negotiations? Legal professionals, industry leaders, or simply those with curious minds are invited to join David and Jasmine in these explorations.

  1. 12/09/2025

    Persuasion, Mediation, and the Story Behind Tim Reuben’s Book Tequila

    Trial lawyer, mediator, and novelist Tim Reuben joins us to talk about persuasion, conflict, and the real-world experience behind his new legal thriller, Tequila. Tim has spent 40+ years in California courts as a civil litigator, mediator, arbitrator, and temporary judge. His experience gives him a clear, practical view of how people behave in high-pressure disputes. Much of our conversation centers on Tequila: a story of a powerful Mexican family, cartel violence, corporate tension, and the moral choices that drive people forward or break them apart. Tim explains how years of legal work shaped the book’s characters and dynamics, why he built a protagonist readers can root for, and how travel and research brought the settings to life. We also touch on how he carved out time to write, why he prefers virtual mediation, and what lawyers often misunderstand about preparing for negotiation versus preparing for court. Connect with Tim Reuben: Tim Reubens WebsiteTequila: A Story of Success, Love & Violence https://perkinscoie.com/insights/publication/settlement-counsel-services

    1h 4m

  2. 11/25/2025

    How To Negotiate, Persuade and Communicate Without Pressure ft. Tony Perzow

    Negotiation expert and keynote speaker Tony Perzow joins us to examine why most persuasion relies on fear, and how shifting to what he calls “magnetism” changes everything. Drawing from decades, training teams at Apple, Red Bull, and Rolls-Royce, Tony shows how standard tactics often fuel scarcity and ego instead of connection. He also shares the personal collapse that reshaped his work, losing nearly everything and rebuilding with a new approach. We look at the mindset behind effective negotiation, why fear drives so much behavior, and how it shows up at work and at home. Tony argues that influence doesn’t come from pushing, but from becoming someone others naturally want to agree with. He breaks down his “left road vs. right road” framework, the ego’s role in conflict, and how professionals can quickly recognize fear-based thinking. From reframing persuasion as a human practice to simple ways to choose love over fear, Tony offers grounded, accessible guidance. Whether you’re litigating, managing workplace tension, or aiming to communicate with more ease, this episode positions negotiation as a process built on awareness, calmness, and kindness, not scare tactics. https://perkinscoie.com/insights/publication/settlement-counsel-services

    1h 3m

  3. 07/01/2025

    Negotiation Is a Human Process: Strategies from John Lowry

    John Lowry—expert negotiator and author of Negotiation Made Simple—joins us to break down the real dynamics of deal-making. Drawing from years as a litigator and founder of The Lowry Group, a negotiation collective, John explains why successful negotiation isn’t just about facts or law—it’s about people. We explore the mindset needed to negotiate effectively, how to manage emotion and ego on both sides of the table, and why influence often matters more than information. John also shares why most professionals are negotiating far more often than they realize—yet rarely receive formal training. From anchoring strategies to when to walk away from the table, John offers practical advice grounded in real-world experience. Whether you’re managing a legal case or just trying to get a deal done, this conversation reframes negotiation as a fundamentally human process. https://perkinscoie.com/insights/publication/settlement-counsel-services

    1h 17m

  4. 06/17/2025

    The End of Trauma: What Resilience Really Looks Like with Dr. George Bonanno

    Dr. George Bonanno, professor of psychology at Columbia University and head of the Loss, Trauma, and Emotion Lab, joins us to challenge everything you think you know about trauma and resilience.George shares how his unconventional path—from a troubled youth to working with mentally ill adults—led him to Yale and into a career studying how people respond to loss and extreme stress. His research shows that most people are more resilient than commonly believed, bouncing back from hardship without developing long-term trauma.In this conversation, we dig into why PTSD is often misunderstood, how flexibility (not stoicism) is the real marker of resilience, and why popular traits like “grit” or “toughness” don’t always predict who copes well. George also discusses effective PTSD treatments—from exposure therapy to psychedelics—and how laughter, reappraisal, and even “coping ugly” can be surprisingly powerful tools in recovery.Whether you’re dealing with loss, supporting someone through a tough time, or just trying to understand what real resilience looks like, this episode brings deep insight backed by decades of research. https://perkinscoie.com/insights/publication/settlement-counsel-services

    1h 3m

  5. 05/20/2025

    The Psychology of Persuasion: Lessons from FBI Negotiator Melissa Fortunato

    Melissa Fortunato, a retired FBI special agent with over two decades of service, joins us to unpack what undercover operations and hostage negotiations can teach us about persuasion, human behavior, and trust-building—both in crisis and in daily life. Melissa shares how her background in psychology and counseling shaped her FBI career, taking her from a rape crisis center to undercover roles and high-stakes international negotiations. Walking us through jaw-dropping undercover assignments and negotiations, she describes posing as a bride-to-be in a fake wedding used to arrest international arms dealers and negotiating with the Taliban where the first offer (not hers) was “$30,000 and a goat.” Melissa explains why likability and emotional control are critical assets in any negotiation. She also discusses the differences and overlaps between the FBI and Harvard negotiation frameworks, and why understanding your own emotional triggers is the first step toward influencing others. She reflects on the power of empathy and connection in building rapport, whether it’s with organized crime figures or colleagues on a SWAT team. Whether you’re navigating tough business conversations, managing conflict at work, or just trying to get your teenager to do their homework, Melissa’s insights are sharp, surprising, and grounded in real-world experience. https://perkinscoie.com/insights/publication/settlement-counsel-services

    1h 12m

  6. 04/22/2025

    The Power of Connection: Hostage Negotiation Lessons for Everyday Influence With Scott Tillema

    Scott Tillema, co-founder of The Negotiations Collective and veteran hostage negotiator, joins us to share what crisis negotiations can teach us about influence, emotional control, and communication under pressure. He explains how a curiosity about human behavior led him into law enforcement and how he ultimately trained to handle life-or-death situations on a SWAT team. Scott reveals how empathy, timing, and strong listening skills help de-escalate tense encounters—and why those same skills are essential in business and everyday life. Scott also shares his four-part communication framework featured in his viral TEDx talk and walks us through how he applies negotiation strategies in both high-stakes scenarios and corporate boardrooms. Whether you’re a lawyer, a leader, or just someone navigating tough conversations, Scott’s practical tools can help you become more persuasive and grounded. https://perkinscoie.com/insights/publication/settlement-counsel-services

    1h 8m

  7. 12/19/2024

    Mastering Body Language and Nonverbal Communication: Insights from Former FBI Agent Joe Navarro

    In this episode, Joe Navarro, former FBI special agent and expert in nonverbal communication, shares insights from his unique background. He discusses how his early life in Cuba shaped his understanding of body language and the transition from intuitive observations to structured analysis. Navarro explores the critical role of body language in interviews, negotiations, and daily interactions, offering practical advice to enhance persuasive communication. He delves into cultural sensitivities, individual differences, and the psychology of first impressions and empathy, drawing from his experiences with high-stakes negotiations. Joe also examines the limitations of virtual communication, contrasting it with the evolutionary advantages of face-to-face interactions. https://perkinscoie.com/insights/publication/settlement-counsel-services

    1h 12m

  8. 12/03/2024

    Radical Empathy and Persuasion: A Conversation With Jeremy Hurewitz

    In this conversation, Jeremy Hurewitz shares his unique journey from journalism to corporate security and describes how his experiences have shaped his understanding of persuasion and influence. He discusses his regular work with lawyers and law firms, explores the importance of active listening, radical empathy, and elicitation in sales, and introduces his “Crawl, Walk, Run” strategy for building client relationships.Jeremy emphasizes that both introverts and extroverts can excel in making connections. He tells us how personal passions can enhance connections and delves into behavioral science’s role in sales and negotiation, offering strategies for de-escalating emotionally charged situations. Our discussion also touches on negotiation tactics in global conflicts, emphasizing the need for emotional intelligence and relationship building in professional settings. https://perkinscoie.com/insights/publication/settlement-counsel-services

    58 min
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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
15 Ratings

About

Welcome to the Persuasion Occasion. Hosted by Perkins Coie Consumer Products and Services litigators David Biderman and Jasmine Wetherell, each episode features a conversation with noted professionals about achieving success in disputes and negotiations. The discussions are not limited to the legal realm, as success demands incorporating teachings from a breadth of perspectives. David, a baby boomer, and Jasmine, a millennial, enhance the discussions with their multigenerational perspectives. Episode guests include negotiators and behavioral scientists. They provide practical advice, real world examples, and thoughtful strategies for surmounting the inevitable hurdles encountered in the worlds of litigation, business, and life. At the end of the day, isn’t life a series of disputes and negotiations? Legal professionals, industry leaders, or simply those with curious minds are invited to join David and Jasmine in these explorations.

Information

  • Creator
    Perkins Coie LLP
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2025
  • Episodes
    26
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 640454
  • Show Website
    The Persuasion Occasion