Divine Konversations

Divine Konnections
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Divine Konversations is a heart-led podcast hosted by Deyona Kirk, where real stories meet radical healing. Centered on courageous conversations around child protection, cultural preservation, faith, and freedom, each episode uplifts Black and BIPOC voices committed to justice, healing, and community care. This is a space for truth-telling, remembering, and reclaiming what’s sacred—together.

  1. 6 АПР.

    A Conversation with Teen Moms Who Made It Through

    What if the hardest chapter of your life was actually the first page of your purpose? This episode stopped me in my tracks — because it reminded me that survival isn't the end of the story. It's just the beginning. I had the honor of sitting down with two women who carry so much wisdom, so much grace, and so much real in one room — our very own Diana Kirk, founder and executive director of Divine Connections, and Lavata Haggard, who serves alongside us in this work. Both became moms young. Diana at 12. Lavata at 19, newly married, and navigating a military deployment alone. Their stories couldn't look more different on the outside — but underneath, the threads are the same: loneliness, survival mode, generational patterns, and the slow, holy work of becoming. This wasn't a conversation about what went wrong. It was a conversation about what's still possible — and I needed it just as much as I hope you do. Key Themes + Takeaways Your first child grows up with you — and that means they also witness your hardest seasons. Both Diana and Lavata reflect honestly on how their older children experienced a version of them that was still figuring it out, and how much that matters. Survival mode is real, but it's not a destination. Working constantly can feel like love — but presence is what our kids remember. Slow down long enough to actually be there. Mentorship can come from unexpected places. Diana's teen parent teacher. Lavata's church community. Neither looked like what they expected — and that's exactly the point. You don't have to earn what you need. Resources, time, space to breathe — you don't have to rush out of them. Use them fully. That's what they're there for. Finding your people is a practice. Go to the parenting class you don't want to go to. Show up at the library storytime. That's where like-minded women are waiting for you. Advocacy is a skill you can learn — and if you can't do it alone yet, it's okay to bring someone with you just to be there. You don't have to fight every battle solo. Nothing is wasted. Everything you've been through is a clue to what you're called to do — and who you're called to reach. Our Favorite Quotes "I was fueled by anger and wanting to prove people wrong. I got a thick skin — because if I hadn't, they would have taken me out a long time ago." — Diana Kirk "I chose me and my kids. I never wanted to be a single mom. But at the end of the day, I had to choose what was healthy for me and for my children." — Lavata Haggard "Purpose leaves clues. Everything you're going through right now is a clue to what you're called to do — and who you're called to." — Diana Kirk "Breathe, babe. Slow down. Take the classes, get the information. There's no hurry." — Diana Kirk "You've given birth at your age. You can do anything." — Lavata Haggard Chapter Markers 0:00 — Two Stories, One Table 3:38 — What We're Most Proud Of 5:51 — Your First Child Grows With You 11:46 — What Made You Believe You Could Do This 20:06 — Survival Mode, the Turning Point, and Letting Go 33:35 — The Loneliness Nobody Talks About 42:09 — Using Your Voice: Advocacy as a Teen Mom 47:10 — A Letter to Your Younger Self Your Turn This week's reflection prompt: Where in your life have you been rushing — out of fear, out of habit, or because someone offered you something before you were ready? What would it look like to slow down and choose what you actually want? 🙌 Stay Connected + Keep the Conversation Going Website: ⁠⁠https://www.divinekonnections.org/⁠⁠ Follow Deyona on Instagram:⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/divine_konnections_inc⁠  💬 Love what you heard? Share this episode with a friend, and leave a 5-star review on Apple or Spotify to help this show reach more hearts and homes. ✨ This is more than a podcast—it’s a movement. Thank you for being part of it. MB01AOZVAOU3RZY

    55 мин.

  2. 30 МАР.

    Money, Mindset & Legacy: Building Generational Wealth for Our Families

    What if everything you were taught about money was designed to keep you out — and what if you're just one mindset shift away from changing everything for your children and their children? I sat down with two people who are doing the work — not just talking about it, but actively teaching, coaching, and living it. Christopher comes from a background in personal finance, banking, and tax preparation, and now works with the Northland Small Business Development Center helping entrepreneurs grow and succeed. He's also a man on a mission: to help make 100 Black and Brown millionaires before he leaves this earth. Lavata brings over a decade of mortgage banking experience and serves as financial manager with Divine Konnections. She's a certified Freddie Mac Credit Smart coach — and she teaches for free, because she believes this knowledge belongs to all of us. What brought both of them to this work? The same things that brought a lot of us to where we are: watching their mothers struggle alone, burying family members with nothing left behind, and carrying student loan debt into a world that handed it out like candy but never explained the consequences. They came to finance out of necessity. And they stayed because they found the way through. Key Themes & Takeaways Understanding the history of why Black and Indigenous families have been locked out of homeownership, the GI Bill, and capital is the first step toward changing the story. Before you can build anything, you have to believe it's possible for someone who looks like you. Exposure matters — drive through that neighborhood, take your kids somewhere new, let them see what's available to them. Your budget is just one line item. Your net worth — your assets minus your liabilities — is where wealth actually lives. Track it, grow it, celebrate it. The order of assets matters: cash → stocks (start with your 401K match or a Roth IRA) → business ownership → real estate. You don't have to do it all at once, but you need a clear path. Real estate is a cheat code. Homeownership builds equity, improves credit, creates stability, and gives you something to pass on. It was kept from our ancestors — owning it is an act of reclamation. Your emergency fund is your protection. A $500 cushion is a starting place. Without it, every crisis wipes out your momentum. Budget for life happening, because it will. Free resources exist. The Libby app. Freddie Mac's Credit Smart program. Fidelity and Vanguard accounts starting at $50. The Automatic Millionaire. You don't need money to start learning. Our Favorite Quotes "Just because you keep telling me no doesn't mean I can't have it. It just means you're not going to help me get it."  — Christopher's partner "The hard work mentality is a myth. We're not lacking intensity — we're lacking consistency, understanding, and opportunity." "Real estate was my cheat code. And I mean it on so many different levels."  — Christopher "I do what I have to do in order to do what I want to do."  — Lavata "Financial freedom starts when you decide."  — Lavata Chapter Markers 0:00  Welcome to Divine Konversations 1:02  Meet the Guests — Finance, Banking & the Road Here 3:04  What Brought You to This Work? (The Personal Stories) 9:13  Why Generational Wealth Is Missing in Our Communities 16:40  Where Do You Start? Mindset, Exposure & Believing It's Possible 26:27  Organize First, Then Budget — Net Worth Is the Real Game 38:35  Homeownership as Legacy & The Order of Assets 48:26  Emergency Funds, Free Resources & Final Words 54:07  Rapid Fire: What Would You Tell Your Younger Self? This week's reflection: What is one belief you were handed about money that you're ready to release? And what do you want to believe instead — for yourself and for the people coming after you? You can write it down, pray over it, or share it in the comments. We're in this together. MB01RHUCVCYDJQ3

    1 ч. 4 мин.

  3. 23 МАР.

    Men Tell All About Growing Up Black

    What does it really mean to grow up Black in Duluth? This conversation mattered because it wasn’t just about race. It was about identity, survival, belonging, leadership, and what happens when young Black boys become Black men in a city still learning how to see them. In this episode, Tatianna sat down with Pez Davila, Kantrelle Kirk, and A.C. Kirk — three Black men deeply rooted in Duluth and deeply committed to the youth of this community. Each of them carries a different story. Some were born here. Some came from New Jersey, Texas, North Carolina, the Twin Cities. Some experienced culture shock. Some felt like fish out of water. All of them have had to navigate what it means to be Black in spaces where they were often the minority — in classrooms, in leadership rooms, in everyday life. It was a real, honest conversation about today’s BIPOC youth in Duluth — the barriers they face, the generational trauma families carry, the systems that complicate progress, and the hope that still refuses to die. Key Theme + Takeaway Growing up Black in Duluth requires navigating isolation, identity, systemic barriers, and internal narratives — but with community, truth, and accountability, hope is still alive. Our Favorite Quotes “When you walk in the room, act like you belong there.” “We black because of who we are, not because we broke.” “Don’t ever think what you done will make us not love and care for you.” “You’re a star. You can literally do whatever you want — but you’ve got to put work behind it.” “There’s nothing more important than knowing the truth.” Chapter Markers 00:00 – Why This Conversation Matters 00:56 – Meet Pez, Kantrelle, and A.C. 04:57 – School, Culture Shock, and Feeling Out of Place 10:57 – Identity, Exploration, and Internal Stories 21:15 – Confidence in Uncomfortable Rooms 27:23 – The Barriers Facing BIPOC Youth 40:02 – What Gives Us Hope 50:17 – A Message to the Youth Your Turn This week’s reflection: Where in your life have you felt like you didn’t belong — and what would it look like to stand firm anyway? Or maybe this: What truth about yourself do you need to hold onto, even when the room feels uncomfortable? Sit with that. Journal it. Pray through it. Talk about it. Healing begins when we’re honest. 🙌 Stay Connected + Keep the Conversation Going Website: ⁠⁠https://www.divinekonnections.org/⁠⁠ Follow Deyona on Instagram:⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/divine_konnections_inc⁠  💬 Love what you heard? Share this episode with a friend, and leave a 5-star review on Apple or Spotify to help this show reach more hearts and homes. ✨ This is more than a podcast—it’s a movement. Thank you for being part of it. MB01GDIGR0H1BIV

    54 мин.

  4. 16 МАР.

    Getting to Know Deyona Kirk: The Pain, Purpose, and Calling Behind Divine Konnections

    Today, we sat down with our founder and executive director, Deyona Kirk—but not just as the leader of Divine Connections. We went deeper than we ever have before. Into childhood. Into trauma. Into faith. Into the grief that sparked a movement. And into the weight of leadership that most people never see. She shared about growing up in the projects in Sherman, Texas. Being the oldest. Being “bossy” because she had to be. Supervising at the playground instead of playing. Becoming a mom at 12. Experiencing abuse. Foster care at 14. Homelessness at 16—with a four-year-old. Her relationship with faith wasn’t linear. It was layered. There was anger. Doubt. Wrestling. A literal airplane wing malfunction moment that changed everything. And over time, she says she met God in different ways—Healer. Provider. Comforter. Sustainer. When her mom passed away, something shifted. Grief collided with purpose. The dream she had journaled about for years—opening a home for young mothers in honor of her mom—suddenly became urgent. What We Walked Away With Leadership is heavy. Not glamorous. Heavy. Healing doesn’t always happen in isolation—it can happen through service. Impact isn’t numbers. It’s lives changed. Discernment grows when you stop ignoring your gut. You can love your calling and still wrestle with what it costs. Sometimes the organization grows because the leader is willing to grow first. Our Favorite Quotes “Nothing is ever wasted.” “Church is like an emergency room waiting room. Everybody there is hurting.” “I don’t care about numbers. I care about impact.” “We’re not creating products. We’re entrusted with people’s lives.” “I just want my grandchildren to say, ‘My nana helped a lot of people.’” Chapter Markers 00:01:12 – The Oldest Child & The Weight of Responsibility 00:05:13 – Abuse, Foster Care & Becoming a Young Mom 00:10:52 – The Airplane & The Altar 00:27:32 – Building Divine Connections From Grief 00:38:58 – When the Vision Met Reality 00:44:16 – The Sacrifice of Leadership 00:55:01 – The Hardest Truth About Leadership Your Turn This week’s reflection: What pain in your life might actually be pointing toward purpose? And—Where are you being invited to trust your discernment, even if it feels scary? Sit with that. Journal it. Pray over it. And if this episode moved you, share it with someone who needs to hear that nothing they’ve lived through is wasted. We’ll see you in the next Divine Konversation. 🙌 Stay Connected + Keep the Conversation Going Website: ⁠⁠https://www.divinekonnections.org/⁠⁠ Follow Deyona on Instagram:⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/divine_konnections_inc⁠  💬 Love what you heard? Share this episode with a friend, and leave a 5-star review on Apple or Spotify to help this show reach more hearts and homes. ✨ This is more than a podcast—it’s a movement. Thank you for being part of it. MB01QTUMBU8QYPV

    1 ч.

  5. 17.11.2025

    Latinx in Duluth: Finding Belonging and Building Community in the Northland

    What does it mean to build belonging in a place where you’ve never seen yourself reflected? For me, this episode wasn’t just another conversation—it was a piece of home. A piece of identity. A reminder that our stories, our families, and our roots are deeply intertwined with the soil we stand on, even when that soil is frozen half the year in northern Minnesota. In this episode, I sat down with two incredible women—Susana Pelayo Woodward and Melisa Gomez Romo—to talk about what it means to be Latinx in Duluth. This conversation felt personal. For me, as someone adopted from Honduras and raised in the Twin Ports, it’s a lifelong journey of reconciling identity—of learning to see beauty in difference when all you wanted as a child was to blend in. Sitting with Susana and Melissa felt like breathing in recognition. Both women are mothers, leaders, and fierce advocates shaping what it means to belong here—building bridges in schools, faith spaces, and community gatherings where our voices haven’t always been heard. We talked about what it means to raise bilingual children in a place that doesn’t always understand your culture. About navigating racism, creating safe spaces, and the joy (and ache) of trying to give your kids roots when your own story began across borders. Key Themes + Takeaways Identity & Belonging: How we hold on to our culture while making space for new definitions of home. Motherhood & Leadership: The emotional labor of showing up for our families and our communities. Resilience Across Generations: Teaching our kids to stand proud in who they are, even when the world tells them otherwise. Community Building in Duluth: From salsa nights at Oasis del Norte to cultural centers at UMD—how representation becomes the foundation of hope. Legacy & Vision: The dream of a Latino Resource Center, more Latino-owned businesses, and political representation that reflects our presence in the Northland. Our Favorite Quotes “Don’t ask me if I can do something just because I have kids—ask me, and I’ll tell you if I can.” – Susana Pelayo Woodward “We’re carving out community from a blank slate. I want my kids to have a home they can come back to.” – Melissa Gomez Romo “I told my son, we’ve always been here. The border moved—we didn’t.” – Susana “You are the only one who knows the strengths of your child. Show up for them, every single time.” – Melissa “We’re here. And we’re not going anywhere.” – Both Chapter Markers 00:00 – A Personal Beginning 02:00 – Susana’s Story: From Mexico City to Ely, MN 04:00 – Melissa’s Story: From L.A. to Arkansas to the Northland 09:00 – Being Latinx Mothers & Leaders 18:00 – Racism & Resilience 23:00 – Education & Advocacy 40:00 – Sports, Safety, and the Reality of Raising Brown Kids in Minnesota 54:00 – The Power of Community 01:03:00 – Legacy & What Comes Next Your Turn ✨ This week’s reflection: Where are you being invited to show up—for your family, your culture, or your community—even when it feels uncomfortable or unseen? Because when we show up, we make the world a little bit more like home. 🙌 Stay Connected + Keep the Conversation Going Website: ⁠⁠https://www.divinekonnections.org/⁠⁠ Follow Deyona on Instagram:⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/divine_konnections_inc⁠  💬 Love what you heard? Share this episode with a friend, and leave a 5-star review on Apple or Spotify to help this show reach more hearts and homes. ✨ This is more than a podcast—it’s a movement. Thank you for being part of it. MB01KXURGY2P6UU

    1 ч. 9 мин.

  6. 15.09.2025

    Am I “Black Enough”? Biracial Identity in Minnesota

    What does it mean to belong when you’re never quite “enough” for either side? Growing up biracial in Minnesota, that question followed us into classrooms, workplaces, and even the most ordinary spaces—like the grocery store or the dentist’s office. In this episode, it’s just the two of us—Tatianna and Tatiana, aka T²—sitting down to have a conversation we haven’t shared much about publicly: what it’s like to be biracial in Duluth, MN. Our stories are different—I grew up in an all-white adoptive family in Superior, while my co-host spent summers in Duluth before moving here permanently. But in so many ways, the threads of identity, hair, family, and belonging weave together. We talk about code-switching before we even had the language for it, the stares and awkward questions that follow biracial kids, and how spaces like Divine Konnections have finally given us room to show up as our whole selves. Key Themes + Takeaways The “Where are you from?” question. How curiosity can carry an undercurrent of exclusion. Code-switching + survival. Learning to “speak white” or minimize parts of ourselves to fit in. Hair as identity. From relaxers and straighteners to embracing curls, and how professional spaces still police Black hair. Family dynamics. What it means to grow up with blended, multiracial families and the assumptions strangers make. Spaces of belonging. How Divine Konnections has created a home where we can bring our whole selves without apology. Advice to our younger selves. “It’s going to be okay. You are enough." Pull Quotes “Sometimes I shut down the part of me that’s a woman of color just to get my point across in white spaces.” “My favorite answer when people ask about my braids? A random number. It keeps them guessing.” “If you didn’t feel like you belonged before, this is the space where you do.” “I can be professional with my natural hair, my nails, my lashes—or without any of it. I am still enough.” “It’s okay to be different. It’s okay to talk different, act different, look different. You are enough.” Chapter Markers 00:00 – Growing up biracial in Minnesota 06:10 – The “Where are you from?” question 10:01 – Code-switching + survival in white spaces 12:35 – The hair conversation: relaxers, braids, and respectability 20:00 – When professionalism gets tied to straight hair 23:44 – Finding belonging at Divine Konnections 27:50 – Parenting biracial kids in Duluth 35:16 – Small-town mapping + the mental weight of stares 43:10 – “Am I Black enough?” and the fight for belonging 49:30 – Spaces of empowerment + representation 56:01 – Advice we’d give our younger selves Your Turn (Reflective CTA) This week’s reflection: When have you felt the pressure to shrink or hide part of who you are just to fit in—and what would it look like to show up as your whole self instead? 🙌 Stay Connected + Keep the Conversation Going Website: ⁠⁠https://www.divinekonnections.org/⁠⁠ Follow Deyona on Instagram:⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/divine_konnections_inc⁠  💬 Love what you heard? Share this episode with a friend, and leave a 5-star review on Apple or Spotify to help this show reach more hearts and homes. ✨ This is more than a podcast—it’s a movement. Thank you for being part of it.

    1 ч.

  7. 01.09.2025

    Legal kidnapping is real—and it’s happening to our children

    That’s not an exaggeration. It’s not a headline. It’s the reality that Kelis Houston has been fighting against for over a decade—and in this conversation, she doesn’t hold anything back. Kelis Houston is the Executive Director of Village Arms and Chair of the NAACP’s Child Protection Committee. She’s a policy consultant, advocate, trainer, and—more than anything—a relentless voice for justice. What started as a job at a youth shelter became a life calling after she witnessed firsthand the racial disparities and trauma inflicted by the child protection system. In this episode, Kelis walks us through her journey: from working in shelters to writing policy, from volunteer advocacy to authoring the African American Family Preservation Act, and everything in between. Her story is one of grit, faith, and fire. She’s seen the damage. She’s named the truth. And she’s still showing up. This isn’t just a conversation about what’s wrong. It’s a deep dive into how we fight back—with facts, with prayer, with policy, with community. ✨ What You’ll Hear 03:24 – How Kelis found herself in the world of child protection 06:49 – The disproportionality she witnessed—and why it lit a fire 08:05 – Writing the African American Family Preservation Act 13:10 – How neglect is used as a catchall to target poor Black families 19:17 – What parents can do if they’re investigated 25:59 – What’s changed under the new law (and what still needs to) 30:26 – Why family preservation and child safety are not oppositional 38:12 – The foster care pipeline and federal incentives 42:01 – Breaking systems, breaking cycles 44:15 – Why documenting and recording everything matters 49:17 – How systems even work to separate parents 54:26 – What happens when you’re grieving a child who’s still living 56:07 – How to prepare during pregnancy 01:02:22 – What families can ask for under the new law 01:07:07 – Why we must fight first, then reform 🗣️ Standout Quotes “I didn’t dream of doing this work. It chose me.” “They’re not protecting children. They’re punishing poverty.” “Family preservation is about safety—psychological safety, cultural safety, emotional safety.” “The system didn’t start caring about our children. They started seeing dollar signs.” “You’re not seeing it for no reason. God showed it to you so you could do something about it.” 💭 This Week’s Reflection Where are you being called to speak up—even if it’s uncomfortable, even if it’s costly? And if you’re walking through something heavy: Who can you invite to stand with you so you don’t carry it alone? 🙌 Stay Connected + Keep the Conversation Going Website: ⁠⁠https://www.divinekonnections.org/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/divinekonnectionsinc/ Follow Deyona on Instagram:⁠⁠ https://www.instagram.com/divine_konnections_inc/ Village Arms Website: http://villagearms.org 💬 Love what you heard? Share this episode with a friend, and leave a 5-star review on Apple or Spotify to help this show reach more hearts and homes. ✨ This is more than a podcast—it’s a movement. Thank you for being part of it.

    1 ч. 12 мин.

  8. 25.08.2025

    “Don’t Be Silenced”: Advocating for Our Children with Special Needs

    What do you do when the system doesn’t see your child the way you do? As a parent of a Black child with autism, that question isn’t just theoretical—it’s a daily reality. And today’s conversation is one I’ll carry with me for a long time. Mikilia Carroll is a fierce advocate, the founder of Aid for Autism, and most importantly, the mother of three—including her son Logan, who has shaped her life and calling in the most profound ways. This episode wasn’t just informative—it was a heart-to-heart. Mikilia shows up with her full truth: the overwhelm, the systems that gaslight parents, the beauty of raising a child who sees the world differently, and the powerful reminder that you are your child’s best advocate. This one is for every parent who’s ever been dismissed in an IEP meeting, every caregiver who’s cried behind a locked bathroom door, and every community member wondering how to show up better for our children. Meet Mikilia Carroll Mikilia is the founder and CEO of Aid for Autism, a community-based organization built from the ground up with lived experience. Her journey began with her son Logan, and what started as a personal mission became a movement. She’s a mom, an educator, a fighter, and someone who never backs down from asking the hard questions. This episode is a masterclass in advocacy, but it’s also a love letter to the parents who are out here doing the most—and still feeling like it’s not enough. What We Talked About Why your child’s diagnosis is not the final word How to advocate in IEP meetings when you feel ignored Planning for transitions like adulthood and independent living Guardianship, paperwork, and the systems no one explains The emotional weight of caregiving—and the beauty in showing up anyway Why extended family and community matter more than ever Favorite Quotes “If I would’ve listened to those doctors, my son would be sitting in a corner somewhere tying shoes. He knows so much more than they gave him credit for.” “Every IEP is different. Don’t let them hand you a packet and call it a plan.” “Just because they have a diagnosis doesn’t mean they don’t feel. Don’t talk about them like they’re not in the room.” “We’re not asking for pity—we’re asking for partnership. Be a village. Let me take a nap.” “You’re not alone. There are people who get it. Let us guide you.” 🔖 Chapter Markers 01:20 Meet Michaela + her son Logan 03:00 What Black parents should do after a diagnosis 05:50 Why you can challenge the professionals 08:00 How to advocate effectively in school meetings 11:30 Navigating big transitions + preparing for adulthood 13:05 Guardianship 101: what no one tells you 14:56 Signs of caregiver burnout—and what to do 18:30 How community can truly support parents 21:45 Having “the talk” with your child about being Black and autistic 26:00 Services + waivers parents don’t know they can ask for 29:00 The importance of empathy, visibility, and asking the child directly 31:00 Michaela’s final word to every parent: You are not alone 📝 Your Turn This week’s reflection prompt: “Where in your life are you being called to speak up, even when it feels like no one is listening?” Whether you're a parent, educator, or ally—this episode invites you to look deeper, ask questions, and trust your intuition. Our kids are watching. Let’s show them what advocacy looks like. 🙌 Stay Connected + Keep the Conversation Going Website: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.divinekonnections.org/⁠ Facebook: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/divinekonnectionsinc/⁠ Follow Deyona on Instagram:⁠⁠ ⁠https://www.instagram.com/divine_konnections_inc/⁠ 💬 Love what you heard? Share this episode with a friend, and leave a 5-star review on Apple or Spotify to help this show reach more hearts and homes. ✨ This is more than a podcast—it’s a movement. Thank you for being part of it.

    33 мин.
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Divine Konversations is a heart-led podcast hosted by Deyona Kirk, where real stories meet radical healing. Centered on courageous conversations around child protection, cultural preservation, faith, and freedom, each episode uplifts Black and BIPOC voices committed to justice, healing, and community care. This is a space for truth-telling, remembering, and reclaiming what’s sacred—together.

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  • Автор
    Divine Konnections
  • Годы выхода
    2025 - 2026
  • Выпуски
    13
  • Ограничения
    Без ненормативной лексики
  • Авторские права
    © Divine Konnections
  • Сайт подкаста
    Divine Konversations