Dual Source Discourse

Dr. Elouise Epstein + Sarah Scudder

Procurement doesn’t have to be boring! Join hosts Dr. Elouise Epstein and Sarah Scudder on Dual Source Discourse, the podcast where they unpack the complexities of supply chain and procurement with a twist of humor and intellect. In each episode, Sarah brings a burning topic to the table, armed with opinions and insights, while Dr. Elouise plays devil's advocate, challenging assumptions and shedding light on alternative perspectives. From the boardroom to the warehouse floor, Dual Source Discourse dives into the big-picture issues shaping the world of supply chain management and procurement. Whether it's discussing the impacts of global trade policies, dissecting the latest technology trends, or exploring strategies for sustainable sourcing, they're here to break it down and make it accessible and entertaining. So, grab your headphones and join them as they navigate the wacky world of supply chain.

  1. The State of the ProcureTech Market | Dual Source Discourse #77

    6일 전

    The State of the ProcureTech Market | Dual Source Discourse #77

    THE FUTURE OF PROCURETECH, AI, AND PRICING DISRUPTION In this episode, Sarah and Dr. Elouise break down the rapidly changing ProcureTech market, from private equity consolidation to the rise of AI-native platforms and productivity tools. They discuss why legacy source-to-pay providers may struggle to keep pace, how newer platforms like Zip, Levelpath, SpendHQ, and Sligo AI are reshaping the category, and why traditional analyst categories may no longer fit the market. The conversation also dives into emerging AI pricing models, including per-seat, consumption-based, and outcome-based pricing, as well as the challenges procurement teams face when negotiating unpredictable AI costs. They close by exploring why AI is not just a feature, but a foundational shift in business architecture, operating models, and the future of procurement work. Key Points: • ProcureTech Consolidation Is Accelerating: Private equity ownership and M&A activity are reshaping the market, especially among legacy source-to-pay providers. • Legacy Platforms Are Under Pressure: Dr. Elouise argues that many traditional suites have become more focused on extracting value than driving true innovation. • AI-Native Platforms Are Redefining the Category: Newer platforms like Zip, Levelpath, SpendHQ, Sligo AI, Fairmarkit, Flipturn, and Rivio are challenging traditional definitions of ProcureTech. • AI Pricing Models Are Still Unsettled: The hosts explore per-seat, consumption-based, and outcome-based pricing, highlighting how difficult it is for both buyers and vendors to budget, negotiate, and prove value. ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Introduction to the state of the ProcureTech market and the major changes 01:03 Discussion of consolidation in ProcureTech, including Coupa, Thoma Bravo, JAGGAER and Vista Equity Partners 03:51 How many ProcureTech companies are now private equity-owned?! 05:22 Why legacy tech companies may hold more value in their data than in their applications 08:13 Zip and Levelpath are newer platforms expanding into broader suite-like capabilities 11:40 SpendHQ’s acquisition of Sligo AI is an example of data plus AI creating a new kind of platform 14:14 AI pricing models and the challenges of negotiating per-seat, consumption-based, and outcome-based contracts 17:55 Data center economics are connected to consumption-based AI pricing 23:36 Is AI a feature or a foundation? And AI as a fundamental business model shift 25:37 Advice for procurement professionals to learn AI quickly and adapt as the role of procurement changes Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Apple Podcasts: https://rb.gy/c8nknq Spotify: https://rb.gy/w01h4t Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    26분
  2. You Shall Not Pass: SAP, Salesforce, and Procurement's Crossroads | Dual Source Discourse #76

    5월 12일

    You Shall Not Pass: SAP, Salesforce, and Procurement's Crossroads | Dual Source Discourse #76

    In this episode, Sarah and Dr. Elouise discuss the growing tension between legacy enterprise software providers and the rapid rise of AI-native tools. They begin with SAP’s recent moves around Ariba, Joule, AI-native positioning, consumption-based AI pricing, and potential API restrictions that could limit non-SAP agents from accessing customer data. The conversation then shifts to Salesforce’s more open approach, including Agent Fabric, MuleSoft, and the role of CRM in an AI-forward world. They also explore why tools like Odoo, Zip, Levelpath, and ORO Labs may have a major opportunity as legacy providers force migrations or restrict integrations. Later, the discussion turns to Microsoft Copilot’s underwhelming enterprise reception, the AI bubble debate, CEO churn, generational differences in AI leadership, and what procurement teams should do now. Their advice: avoid massive technology investments, reduce technical debt, keep learning AI, and rethink how procurement negotiates AI, SaaS, and consumption-based contracts. This summary is based on the provided transcript. Key Points: • SAP’s AI and Ariba Strategy: SAP’s AI-native positioning, Joule integration, consumption-based AI pricing, and potential restrictions on non-SAP agents are creating concern across procurement and enterprise tech. • Legacy Systems vs. AI-Native Tools: The hosts argue that adding AI onto old software is not the same as building AI-native systems from the ground up. • Salesforce’s Open AI Approach: Salesforce is positioned as taking a more open approach through Agent Fabric, MuleSoft, and agent orchestration, but the hosts question whether CRM is defensible long term. • Procurement’s Technology Moment: Forced migrations, changing pricing models, API restrictions, and AI adoption could create openings for competitors like Zip, Levelpath, ORO Labs, and Odoo. • Microsoft Copilot Frustration: The episode highlights dissatisfaction with Microsoft Copilot, especially around unmet expectations, enterprise adoption, and the gap between AI branding and actual performance. • AI Bubble and CEO Churn: Sarah and Dr. Elouise discuss whether AI is in a bubble, why large-scale deployment remains limited, and how AI pressure may be contributing to leadership turnover. ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Recent SAP and Salesforce announcements are creating noise and concern for procurement practitioners 05:00 Dr. Elouise challenges the idea that SAP Ariba is truly AI-native and argues that AI-native systems must be built from the ground up 09:03 MCP servers, Claude, ChatGPT, and the risks of blocking AI agents from accessing enterprise data 15:53 Agent Fabric, MuleSoft, agent workforce, and the idea of bringing agents to enterprise data 17:30 AI tools like Claude, OpenAI, Gemini, and Clay may reshape how companies use Salesforce 25:27 Frustration around underperformance and unmet expectations from Microsoft Copilot 32:52 Whether AI strategy and execution gaps are contributing to leadership changes 39:04 Avoid massive tech investments, reduce technical debt, and keep learning AI Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Apple Podcasts: https://rb.gy/c8nknq Spotify: https://rb.gy/w01h4t Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    41분
  3. AI Roundup | Dual Source Discourse #75

    4월 29일

    AI Roundup | Dual Source Discourse #75

    AI, ProcureTech Consolidation, Data Centers, and the Future of Storytelling In this episode, Sarah and Dr. Elouise return after a hiatus to catch up on major developments across procurement, AI, and go-to-market strategy. They discuss upcoming participation in the KonnectHouse event in San Francisco, where they’ll explore the impact of data centers on procurement teams. The conversation also covers major ProcureTech moves, including Supplier.io’s acquisition of Tealbook and SpendHQ’s acquisition of SLIGO, both of which point to the growing importance of data quality, AI readiness, and platform consolidation. Sarah and Dr. Elouise then dig into broader AI trends, including public model fragility, data poisoning, politics and regulation, data center backlash, AI-generated content, and the rising importance of authentic storytelling. They also explore how AI is changing software development, design, video editing, and wearable technology, ending with a discussion about Meta Ray-Ban glasses, Apple’s rumored AI glasses, privacy concerns, and the shift from mobile-first technology to wearable AI. Key Points: • ProcureTech consolidation is accelerating: Supplier.io’s acquisition of Tealbook and SpendHQ’s acquisition of SLIGO signal a larger shift toward data quality, AI enablement, and platform consolidation across procurement technology. • Data quality is becoming an executive-level issue: As companies race to implement AI, the hosts emphasize that organizations without trusted, accurate data will struggle to make AI initiatives successful. • AI regulation and data centers may become political flashpoints: The conversation explores how data centers, energy consumption, water usage, privacy, and AI safety could become central issues in upcoming political campaigns and local regulation. • Storytelling and authenticity matter more in an AI-driven world: As AI lowers the barrier to building, designing, coding, and creating content, the hosts argue that differentiation will increasingly come from clear, human, authentic storytelling. Highlights: ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Sarah and Dr. Elouise return after a hiatus and preview an AI-heavy episode covering procurement, data centers, and major industry updates. 05:15 Discussion of Supplier.io’s acquisition of Tealbook and what it signals about the growing importance of data quality in enterprise AI readiness. 07:51 SpendHQ’s acquisition of SLIGO is discussed as a future-focused AI platform move and a sign of where ProcureTech is headed. 11:50 The hosts talk about ProcureTech mergers, private equity activity, and SpendHQ’s mascot, Spendy, as an example of memorable brand marketing. 15:23 AI news roundup begins, including data center moratoriums, Anthropic-related security concerns, data poisoning, and public model fragility. 16:56 The conversation turns to politics, AI regulation, and whether Democrats or Republicans will lean into AI as a campaign and policy issue. 23:39 Sarah shares a Seth Godin quote about marketing and storytelling, connecting it to the growing importance of differentiation in an AI-enabled world. 34:13 The hosts discuss wearable AI, including Meta Ray-Ban glasses, Apple’s rumored glasses, translation use cases, and the major privacy concerns that come with always-on devices. Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Apple Podcasts: https://rb.gy/c8nknq Spotify: https://rb.gy/w01h4t Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    38분
  4. What 2025 Taught us. And, What Comes Next? | Dual Source Discourse #74

    1월 14일

    What 2025 Taught us. And, What Comes Next? | Dual Source Discourse #74

    TECH & TRENDS: WHAT 2026 COULD BRING In this forward-looking episode, Sarah and Dr. Elouise unpack their bold predictions for 2026, ranging from the rise of AI employees to the potential decline of the gig economy. They reflect on how technology, AI integration, data strategy, and changing workforce dynamics will shape industries in the year ahead. From FinOps and IT asset management convergence to consumption-based pricing challenges and analog lifestyle trends, they dive deep into both the disruptive and restorative forces expected to impact organizations and individuals. Whether you're in procurement, IT, or simply navigating the future of work, this episode offers an insightful lens into what’s coming and how to prepare. Key Points: • AI as an Economic Engine, Not a Bubble: Despite media skepticism, Sarah and Dr. Elouise argue AI will remain a major economic driver in 2026, fueled by increased private investment and real business impact. • FinOps + ITAM Convergence: Companies will need to break down silos between FinOps and IT asset management teams to improve visibility, reduce waste, and manage skyrocketing cloud costs. • The Gig Economy at a Tipping Point: With automation and AI on the rise, traditional gig work—like rideshare driving and project-based tasks—may see a sharp decline, while fractional work could expand. • 2026: The Year of Data (and Data Headaches): Clean, visible, and well-governed data will become a top priority as companies struggle to avoid failed AI implementations and rising costs from usage-based pricing. ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Opening thoughts on AI’s momentum and media predictions of a crash 03:32 Crunchbase insights on 2025 investment trends fueling AI companies 06:10 The case for uniting FinOps and ITAM to better manage costs and compliance 10:55 Dr. Elouise predicts the beginning of the end for gig economy jobs 17:40 Shift from hourly gig work to fractional employment and long-term contracts 23:20 AI bill shock and the rise of consumption-based pricing as a major concern 28:40 The growing challenge of subscription creep and digital overspending 34:10 AI becoming a board-level initiative and boards struggling with AI literacy 40:05 Dr. Elouise predicts the downfall of LinkedIn and emergence of a B2B competitor 45:15 “The Year Data Is Everything” and the critical role of data quality in AI success 52:00 Emergence of AI employees and the need to design for agents, not just humans 57:40 Backlash to digital: why 2026 may be the rise of analog and offline experiences 01:03:30 Speculations about data centers in space and their impact on infrastructure 01:08:10 Dr. Elouise’s final prediction: 2026 may be the year of the great rant Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    1시간 3분
  5. The SaaSification of Everything | Dual Source Discourse #73

    2025. 11. 19.

    The SaaSification of Everything | Dual Source Discourse #73

    HOW SUBSCRIPTIONS ARE RESHAPING CONSUMERS, COMPANIES & PROCUREMENT In this episode, Sarah and Dr. Elouise dive into the accelerating “SaaSification” of modern life — the shift toward subscription and usage-based models across consumer products, enterprise software, physical goods, and even heavy equipment. They explore how companies are monetizing everyday features, why recurring pricing has become the dominant business model, and what this means for procurement, IT, data governance, and long-term ownership. Listen in as Sarah and Dr. Elouise map out what organizations — and individuals — must prepare for as subscriptions become unavoidable across every corner of life and business. Key Points: • The Rise of Usage-Based & Subscription Pricing: From entertainment systems in cars to consulting firms shifting away from project-based billing, recurring pricing is rapidly dominating both consumer and enterprise markets. • More Tools, More Data, More Governance: As companies adopt modular, best-in-class point solutions, procurement must manage data quality, integrations, contract terms, and stakeholder trust to avoid fragmentation and duplication. • Ownership vs. Access: Software-driven hardware (cars, tractors, machinery) raises right-to-repair and IP ownership challenges, limiting consumers’ and businesses’ control over what they purchase. • Hidden Costs: Subscriptions add up quickly when visibility is poor. Without unified asset management, companies risk runaway expenses fueled by unused licenses, cloud overages, and AI consumption. ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Introduction to today’s topic: the SaaSification of our world 02:09 Reviewing an overwhelming number of personal monthly subscriptions 05:19 How SaaS models are reshaping procurement and tech stacks 07:02 The future: subscriptions for PPE, consulting, and physical goods 12:07 Data fragmentation risks increase as tool count grows 16:24 Competitive pricing pressures emerging in AI and usage-based tools 24:01 Micro-targeted utility pricing and smart meter implications 25:02 Procurement pitfall: DIY scripts create long-term maintenance issues 29:53 Importance of success narratives to justify budgets and prove ROI 33:03 Intellectual property and right-to-repair becoming major issues 38:16 Hosts plan a live end-of-year subscription cost-saving challenge Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    39분
  6. Behind the Pictures | Dual Source Discourse #72

    2025. 11. 11.

    Behind the Pictures | Dual Source Discourse #72

    STORIES FROM THE ROAD In this episode of Dual Source Discourse, Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein pull back the curtain on the candid, human side of conference season. Rather than discussing panels or presentations, they share the moments behind the photos—the unexpected encounters, travel mishaps, and serendipitous memories that make these industry events unforgettable. From chance meetings in Hawaii and Amsterdam to crafting red-branded shirts and “dog diaper” stations, this episode captures the power of relationships, community, and humor in the world of procurement and supply chain. Key Points: • Beyond the Booths: Why the real stories of conferences happen outside the main sessions. • Building Meaningful Relationships: How genuine connections can grow from professional events into lifelong friendships. • Creative Brand Visibility: How simple visual choices—like color, shoes, or pet-themed shirts—create lasting impressions. • Moments That Matter: The importance of celebrating community, laughter, and shared humanity in an industry that’s often all business. ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Sarah and Dr. Elouise return with a lighter topic to close out conference season 02:30 The untold stories surrounding conference photos 06:15 Sarah’s story about running into industry peers and family during a vacation overlap 12:50 A reflection on the power of friendships formed through professional circles 15:40 Elouise shares the chaotic fun of flying with half the procurement industry 22:10 The “Toner Queen” & Dog Diapers 32:45 Elouise’s near-disastrous Amsterdam canal story 41:10 Sarah explains Oomnitza’s branding strategy and the marketing psychology behind it 49:30 Creative takeaways from the data center conference. 55:00 Sarah closes with reflections on connection, community, and maintaining lifelong bonds Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    48분
  7. Guerilla Marketing | Dual Source Discourse #71

    2025. 11. 05.

    Guerilla Marketing | Dual Source Discourse #71

    GUERILLA MARKETING: UNCONVENTIONAL STRATEGIES THAT STICK In this episode, Sarah and Dr. Elouise dive into the art of guerilla marketing—creative, low-cost tactics designed to capture attention and drive engagement in unexpected ways. From Salesforce’s early “fake protest” campaigns to flash mobs, free pizza, and surprise hotel gifts, the hosts share real-world examples of brands and individuals who turned bold ideas into unforgettable brand moments. They explore how guerilla marketing blends psychology, creativity, and timing to achieve outsized impact—both in the B2B and consumer worlds. Tune in to learn how to think beyond traditional marketing, embrace risk, and make a lasting impression without breaking the bank. Key Points: • Low Cost, High Creativity: Guerilla marketing thrives on ingenuity over budget, relying on shock, humor, and grassroots appeal. • Real-World Examples: From Salesforce’s mock protests to “Pizza Pete’s” free pizza stunts, bold ideas leave powerful impressions. • Conference Tactics: Creative approaches like Level Path’s in-room chocolate drops demonstrate timing and targeting perfection. • Emotional Connection: Physical, analog experiences—like pizza or billboards—often resonate deeper than digital campaigns. ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Sarah and Elouise return to discuss guerilla marketing and its defining traits 03:45 Unconventional, surprising, low-cost strategies that rely on disruption and creativity 07:20 Marc Benioff’s fake protests at competitor events—a masterclass in attention-grabbing 10:45 A recruiter creates viral buzz by handing out pizzas and branded cutters at data center conferences 17:10 How spontaneous activations can amplify brand visibility at conferences 21:30 Timed chocolate and note deliveries during a competitor’s keynote steal the spotlight 29:00 A Bay Area woman’s billboard search for love becomes a viral guerilla moment 35:10 Creative booth engagement through hidden “find-and-follow” tactics 42:25 From “strategic littering” to stratosphere jumps—how Red Bull mastered guerilla spectacle 49:40 How trolling and playful competition push guerilla marketing to the next frontier Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Apple Podcasts: https://rb.gy/c8nknq Spotify: https://rb.gy/w01h4t Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    40분
  8. Repost – The AI Data Center Revolution | Dual Source Discourse #70

    2025. 10. 29.

    Repost – The AI Data Center Revolution | Dual Source Discourse #70

    FROM BUZZWORDS TO BACKBONE — A REPLAY Back by popular demand, this episode of Dual Source Discourse dives into the rapidly evolving role of data centers in 2025 and beyond. Sarah and Dr. Elouise explore how the rise of AI is transforming global infrastructure—driving unprecedented investment, innovation, and regulation. From liquid cooling and 5G integration to sustainability and decentralization, the conversation unpacks how data centers have moved from being IT’s back-office operation to a strategic backbone of supply chains, procurement, and economic growth. Key Points: • The AI Boom Is Fueling Data Center Growth: The AI revolution is pushing massive investment in data infrastructure to handle exponential increases in compute demand, data storage, and energy requirements. • Sustainability Is a Growing Priority: With soaring power consumption, the industry is embracing renewable energy, advanced cooling systems, and even nuclear options to balance growth with environmental responsibility. • Edge Computing and Decentralization Are Reshaping Architecture: Data processing is shifting closer to users through edge facilities and 5G networks, enabling real-time applications like autonomous vehicles and smart cities. • Regulatory & Community Resistance Are Rising: Environmental concerns, zoning restrictions, and data privacy debates are shaping how and where new data centers are built—forcing companies to rethink strategy and stakeholder engagement. ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Sarah recaps her company retreat and introduces the topic of data centers 04:00 AI’s role in accelerating demand for new data centers 8:31 Energy consumption becomes a top priority for analysts and operators 13:24 Discussion of sustainability, including liquid cooling and nuclear revival 17:30 Edge computing and 5G are reducing latency and decentralizing control 24:06 U.S. data center market projected to reach $112B by 2030 30:03 Rise of vertical integration, automation, and 3D printing in construction 34:01 Regulatory and privacy challenges from local protests to GDPR Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Apple Podcasts: https://rb.gy/c8nknq Spotify: https://rb.gy/w01h4t Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    49분

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Procurement doesn’t have to be boring! Join hosts Dr. Elouise Epstein and Sarah Scudder on Dual Source Discourse, the podcast where they unpack the complexities of supply chain and procurement with a twist of humor and intellect. In each episode, Sarah brings a burning topic to the table, armed with opinions and insights, while Dr. Elouise plays devil's advocate, challenging assumptions and shedding light on alternative perspectives. From the boardroom to the warehouse floor, Dual Source Discourse dives into the big-picture issues shaping the world of supply chain management and procurement. Whether it's discussing the impacts of global trade policies, dissecting the latest technology trends, or exploring strategies for sustainable sourcing, they're here to break it down and make it accessible and entertaining. So, grab your headphones and join them as they navigate the wacky world of supply chain.

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