What if “just okay” was actually enough? In this episode, Denise and Jackie navigate emotional exhaustion, world heaviness, and the full spectrum of being human — from overbooked weekends to overdue rest. Key Times:00:01:30 – Denise on burnout and the joy of a full, vibrant life 00:03:10 – Four events in one weekend: dinners, comedy shows, and the village 00:05:20 – Reflecting on gratitude and the gifts of sobriety 00:08:45 – Heading to Hawaii: celebrating five years since launching the company’s island region 00:11:10 – Remembering pandemic Hawaii — the beauty and eerie calm 00:14:20 – Jackie opens up about emotional weight, grief, and global heaviness 00:16:50 – Powerlessness, empathy, and the practice of small activism 00:19:15 – “Just love your neighbors”: finding humanity beyond media noise 00:22:00 – Missing each other, changing rhythms, and long-distance mother–daughter life 00:25:35 – Jackie’s travel stories: a friend’s wedding in Spain and Chicago adventures with Nala 00:28:15 – Returning from vacation and facing grad school fatigue 00:30:40 – Denise’s “HALT” wisdom: Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired (and Horny) 00:33:20 – Building new community: finding (or starting) meetings in a new city 00:36:00 – Productivity, procrastination, and perfectionism in grad school 00:39:00 – Rhubarb crisps, curtain rods, and the therapy of small wins 00:40:40 – “Life be lifin’”: grief, loss, and showing up anyway 00:41:35 – Closing meditation: breathe, drink your water, aim for “okay” Episode Summary:In this tender, funny, and real conversation, Denise and Jackie come back together to unpack what it means when life be lifin’. Denise reflects on the joy and overwhelm of a full life, dinners, community, comedy, and career milestones, while Jackie opens up about grad school burnout, post-travel blues, and the search for new community. As mother and daughter process collective grief, global uncertainty, and the loss of simple times, they remind listeners that even when the world feels heavy, gratitude and small routines - like cooking, laughing, or just breathing - are spiritual practices. Together, they find wisdom in imperfection: rest is recovery, connection is medicine, and sometimes “just okay” is everything. Topics Covered:Emotional fatigue and seasonal transitionsGratitude vs. burnoutSobriety and the gifts of spiritual structureThe grief of global events and media overloadDistance, connection, and changing family rhythmsGrad school stress, procrastination, and self-compassionRebuilding daily joy through small actions“Life be lifin’” — letting it be okay to not be okay Join our upcoming meetings: https://forms.gle/4VxnNUnev1RoRJMCA (Zoom meeting on Sunday at 10am PST, the meeting is password-protected so please fill out the form to receive the link and password!) Follow Us:Follow Jackie: @jackiefreed.laFollow Denise: @denise.freedFollow us on Instagram: @12stepsforeveryoneFollow us on TikTok: @12stepsforeveryone
