Unlearn: Redefining the Playbook for Modern Business

Asher Mathew & Kelly Sarabyn

The world is changing fast—what worked yesterday won’t guarantee success tomorrow. On Unlearn, we bring you visionary leaders, bold strategies, and groundbreaking ideas shaping the future of business, innovation, and leadership. This isn’t just about adapting—it’s about evolving. We challenge outdated thinking, break free from convention, and explore what it really takes to thrive in a world where the only constant is change. If you’re ready to rethink the way you work, lead, and grow, you’re in the right place.

  1. Ep 41 | Richard Ezekiel on Codifying Partnerships With COELEVATE

    2 JUIL.

    Ep 41 | Richard Ezekiel on Codifying Partnerships With COELEVATE

    In this episode, Asher and Kelly sit down with Richard Ezekiel to unpack his book COELEVATE, a practical framework built from decades in the trenches in Silicon Valley and as part of the venture capital ecosystem. Richard breaks down how to build a “virtual company” between partners, why operational rigor is often overlooked, and how partner professionals can move beyond buzzwords to drive real business value. Chapters 04:28 – From Wired Magazine to Amazon 10:29 – The Partnership T: A Customer-Centric Framework 17:42 – The Real Reason Richard Wrote COELEVATE 24:05 – Why 70% of Partnerships Fail 29:13 – Building a Partnership Like a Virtual Company 34:42 – The Problem with “Alliances” and Industry Nomenclature 42:33 – Scaling with Platform Partnerships 48:12 – AI, Methodology, and What’s Next for COELEVATE Key Takeaways 1. The 70% Problem - Most partnerships fail within two years, not because of execution issues, but because the foundational idea wasn’t strong enough. 2. The Virtual Company Mindset - A great partnership should function like a shared operating entity between two companies. 3. Idea Quality > Execution - You can’t fix a weak idea with flawless execution. Strong partnerships start with high-quality, differentiated ideas that actually matter to the customer. 4. Platform Strategy Isn’t Plug-and-Play - Scaling to one-to-many partnerships doesn’t mean copy-pasting one-to-one motions. 5. It’s Time to Codify the Discipline - We’ve built sales, marketing, and product into academic and operational disciplines. It’s time to do the same for partnerships with a common language, methodology, and structure. Key Quotes "You’re not building a deal. You’re building the architecture for two companies to evolve together. If that framework’s not there, the partnership won’t last." - Richard Ezekiel "Most partner pros don’t realize they can take their skills into entirely new industries. The ceiling moves when you stop thinking of partnerships as just a B2B function." - Asher Mathew "Execution depends on culture. You can’t build a strategic partnership if your company values or brand DNA fundamentally clash, even when the numbers look great." - Kelly Sarabyn Final Thoughts Partnerships are complex, evolving ecosystems that need better tools, better thinking, and stronger foundations. Richard Ezekiel’s book COELEVATE is a serious attempt at codifying what most of us learn the hard way: that sustainable partnerships need structure, creativity, and a real operating model behind the press release. This episode is for anyone trying to bring good ideas to life through collaboration. Tune in to hear what’s next for the discipline and what Richard is building to make the methodology real and usable with AI.

    53 min
  2. Ep 40 | The New Rules of PR, Partnerships, and Personal Brand

    17 JUIN

    Ep 40 | The New Rules of PR, Partnerships, and Personal Brand

    Natan Edelsburg, Chief Partnerships Officer at Muck Rack, joins Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn on Unlearn to talk about what happens when a revenue leader outgrows the CRO seat. They unpack how modern PR is evolving, why media training matters more than ever, and how partnerships roles are becoming more dynamic and strategic than ever before. Natan shares his journey from early employee to CPO, the challenges of navigating internal change, and the power of authentic storytelling in a noisy world. Chapters 01:03 – Natan’s Journey to Chief Partnerships Officer 10:00 – Why He Stepped Down as CRO 13:40 – Building a Role Around Partnerships & Evangelism 19:50 – Staying Focused on PR in a Distracted Market 30:32 – LinkedIn’s Role in Modern Comms 37:20 – What Makes a Strategic PR Campaign 40:35 – Why Media Training Is Essential 43:00 – Using AI for Smarter Media Prep 47:50 – Activating Relationships Through LinkedIn Key Takeaways 1. Modern PR Requires Integration - Great campaigns span paid, earned, shared, and owned channels. PR isn’t just pitching anymore. 2. Media Training Isn’t Optional - Executives are expected to show up polished on every channel, not just in interviews. 3. Partnerships Can Be Evangelism - Natan’s role blends relationship-building with brand representation, showing CPOs aren’t confined to revenue KPIs. 4. AI Should Augment, Not Replace - Smart teams are using AI to speed up busywork—but keeping humans in the loop to protect quality. 5. LinkedIn Is an Underrated Power Tool - Relationship capital, activated thoughtfully, still opens more doors than cold outreach ever will. Key Quotes “You still want to do incubation stuff, but the company’s needs are highly specialized. That’s the trade-off every growth-stage exec faces.” - Asher Mathew “While tech stacks change, relationships remain the most durable asset in go-to-market.” - Kelly Sarabyn “Being media trained doesn’t mean being robotic. It means knowing your story and being able to tell it in a way that connects.” - Natan Edelsburg Final Thoughts Natan’s story is a reminder that career growth isn’t always up. It’s sometimes sideways, strategic, and self-aware. From building Muck Rack’s comms ecosystem to leading without a team, he’s showing what flexible leadership looks like. And with AI, PR, and social platforms evolving fast, the conversation doubles as a blueprint for staying relevant and trusted in any go-to-market function.

    51 min
  3. Ep 39 | How Factorial Built a 100-Person Partner Team (That Drives 30% of Revenue)

    22 MAI

    Ep 39 | How Factorial Built a 100-Person Partner Team (That Drives 30% of Revenue)

    As VP of Partnerships at Factorial, Marcel Queralt turned a side project into a full-blown business unit, driving one-third of the company’s revenue. In this episode, Marcel breaks down how he built a 100-person global team, why partner leaders need to think like entrepreneurs, and the exact culture and org structure that keeps it all running. Chapters 02:30 - Why partnerships became a growth lever 06:05 - Finding product-market fit before hiring 10:33 - Why Marcel hired “mini-founders” first 27:50 - Culture of ownership and reporting discipline 45:52 - The role of partner enablement at scale 50:48 - Presenting to the board and owning the number Key Takeaways 1. Mini-Founders First: Marcel prioritized hiring entrepreneurial talent who could own a market and figure out what works before scaling. 2. Reporting is Strategy: Clean attribution and shared CRM visibility are non-negotiable if you want internal alignment and credibility. 4. Partner Enablement is Make or Break: Fast partner activation—within the first two weeks—is the key to long-term results. 5. Partnerships = Business Unit: Marcel runs his org with full P&L ownership, localized teams, and dedicated marketing and ops support. 6. Culture Eats Incentives: Internal collaboration is less about comp plans and more about shared trust and aligned goals. Key Quotes "My whole thing right now is, hey, can a partnership leader track performance all the way down to earnings per share... even if you can come down to like net income generated from partnerships, that would actually be a pretty cool thing." - Asher Mathew "It sounded like when you initially took this on, you were looking quite broad at a lot of different types of organizations that could drive the business forward." - Kelly Sarabyn "Signing a partnership doesn't mean anything... we want to understand if they want to invest or not on this relationship, if they are able to sign on a business plan or not, and if they have the ambition to be relevant for us. Because we want to be relevant for them." - Marcel Queralt Final Thoughts Partnerships don’t scale on charm alone. Rooted in ownership, discipline, and strategic hiring, Marcel’s approach shows what it takes to turn partner teams into revenue engines. Whether you’re in the early days or managing a global org, this episode is a blueprint for doing it right. It’s also a reminder that treating partnerships as a real business unit is necessary if you want to move the needle.

    54 min
  4. Ep 38 | How TD Synnex is Reinventing Distribution

    4 AVR.

    Ep 38 | How TD Synnex is Reinventing Distribution

    In this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Sergio Farache, Chief Strategy and Technology Officer at TD Synnex. Sergio shares insights on how TD Synnex is breaking away from the traditional linear model, creating a dynamic ecosystem that supports diverse partner types, from SMBs to global enterprises. Chapters 02:28 - Sergio’s Background and Role at TD Synnex 04:11 - Evolving from Linear Models to Ecosystems 08:27 - The Omnichannel Approach 16:27 - Supporting SMBs with Tailored Programs 23:47 - Empowering Partners and Managing Data 33:37 - Distribution Models and Partner Retention 44:16 - Go-to-Market Trends and Future Focus Key Takeaways 1. Ecosystem Integration: TD Synnex serves as the “ecosystem of ecosystems,” integrating major cloud platforms like AWS, Microsoft, and Google into a unified experience. 2. Omnichannel Strategy: Whether partners prefer a digital portal, API integration, or direct support, TD Synnex meets them where they are. 3. Focus on SMBs: Programs like Evolve help smaller partners scale their offerings without needing a large internal team. 4. Data-Driven Decisions: TD Synnex leverages its extensive data to help partners target the right customers and build effective go-to-market strategies. 5. Future of Distribution: Embracing digital engagement while maintaining human touchpoints remains crucial for building long-term relationships. Key Quotes “We are the ecosystem of ecosystems. Our role is to normalize interactions across platforms, allowing partners to access major cloud providers from one place.” - Sergio Farache “If you build an amazing global SMB company, you’ll get any money you want from VCs.” - Asher Mathew “The essence of why platforms exist is to add value by connecting partners and customers across the chain.” - Kelly Sarabyn Final Thoughts Sergio Farache highlights how TD Synnex is redefining distribution by fostering an interconnected ecosystem, focusing on SMB enablement, and leveraging data to deliver value. As the market evolves, TD Synnex’s approach to blending human interaction with digital efficiency will likely set the standard for the future of technology distribution.

    54 min
  5. Ep 37 | CRO’s Ultimate Playbook to Partnerships and Innovation

    26 MARS

    Ep 37 | CRO’s Ultimate Playbook to Partnerships and Innovation

    Join hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn as they engage with Gilad Zubery, Chief Revenue Officer at DealHub. This episode unpacks Gilad's journey from EVP of Partnerships at ContentSquare to his current role, highlighting the strategic importance of partnerships in driving business growth. Discover insights into the challenges of revenue operations and the evolving landscape of partner-driven strategies.Chapters- 06:00 - Gilad's Career Journey and Transition to CRO- 12:00 - Attribution Challenges and Solutions in Partnerships- 18:00 - The Role of Partnerships in Company Growth Strategy- 24:00 - Community Building and Its Impact on Business- 30:00 - Challenges in Partner-Driven Growth for New Platforms- 36:00 - Reporting Structures for Partnership Teams- 42:00 - Metrics and Board Reporting for PartnershipsKey Takeaways1. Transitioning to CRO: Gilad's move to Deal Hub was driven by the company's belief in partner channels as a growth engine, underscoring the value of partnership expertise in executive roles.2. Attribution in Partnerships: Implementing a robust attribution system is crucial for understanding the impact of partnerships on lead generation and revenue.3. Outsourcing Challenges: Competing with established players like Salesforce requires innovative strategies, especially when offering fewer services.4. Reporting Structures: The optimal reporting line for partnerships varies by company strategy and culture, emphasizing the need for alignment with overall business goals.5. Early Metrics Implementation: Introducing partnership metrics early can significantly influence strategic decisions and highlight the importance of partner relationships.Key Quotes"Everything you do about partnerships, do it early on after you grow. It's close to impossible to really change. It's very difficult." - Gilad Zubery"Understanding the go-to-market motion of a company is crucial for determining where partnerships should report." - Asher Mathew"This is the beauty of having a partner friendly CRO is you can get data like that, even understanding who the partners are on the other, the competitive side." - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsGilad's transition to CRO highlights the growing importance of partnerships in modern business strategies. His approach to eliminating attribution issues and fostering community engagement offers valuable lessons for leaders aiming to integrate partnerships into their growth models. As companies navigate competitive landscapes, the insights shared in this episode underscore the need for adaptability and strategic alignment in achieving sustainable success.

    56 min

  6. 10 MARS

    Ep 36 | Breaking Barriers in Healthcare Data Sharing

    In this episode, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn engage with Serrah Linares, Senior Vice President of Growth Innovation at Optum, in a compelling discussion on the future of healthcare partnerships. This episode unpacks how technology, APIs, and strategic alliances are reshaping healthcare delivery and innovation. Chapters 5:02 - Healthcare tech: EMRs, APIs, and data exchange 10:57 - Industry evolution: Adoption of technology in healthcare 17:50 - Partnerships and interoperability in healthcare 24:41 - AI and verticalized solutions in healthcare 30:36 - Organizational structure and partnerships at UnitedHealthcare 36:57 - Stakeholder alignment and making the business case 42:25 - Challenges of partnering in the healthcare industry Key Takeaways 1. Optum's Technological Edge: Optum builds and commercializes technology to fill gaps in healthcare, enhancing member engagement and service delivery. 2. Interoperability and Innovation: The healthcare sector is gradually embracing digital transformation, driven by federal policies and the need for collaboration. 3. API Marketplace as a Catalyst: Optum's API marketplace supports startups, fostering innovation in telehealth and virtual care. 4. Data Protection vs. Sharing: Balancing data protection with the need for information sharing is crucial for improving healthcare outcomes. 5. Strategic Stakeholder Engagement: Effective partnership initiatives require a compelling business case and alignment with company goals.

    45 min

  7. 19 FÉVR.

    Ep 35 | Rethinking Partnerships: A Product Leader’s Playbook

    Elena Leonova, Chief Product Officer at Spryker, joins Unlearn to discuss how product leaders should rethink their approach to partnerships. She explains why transparency in product roadmaps is critical, how developer ecosystems drive platform success, and why product managers need to integrate partners into their strategy. This episode is packed with insights on structuring partnerships for scale, and positioning partnerships at the executive level. Chapters: 01:33 - The Role of Partnerships in Platform Products 04:26 - Structuring Partner Success & Developer Enablement 07:29 - Transparency in Product Roadmaps for Partners 12:58 - The Journey from Product to Platform 18:48 - How to Sell Partnerships to Product Leaders 22:05 - Why Product Managers Should Care About Partners 32:25 - The Role of Ecosystem Risk in Product Decisions 41:05 - CEO-Level Conversations About Partnerships 48:42 - Staying Aligned with Partners Over Time 50:08 - AI’s Impact on Product-Partner Strategies Key Takeaways Product leaders need to shift their mindset—Partnerships aren’t just a go-to-market strategy; they’re a core part of a scalable product strategy. Transparency is key—Sharing product roadmaps with partners fosters trust and helps them build complementary solutions. Developer experience matters—A strong developer ecosystem increases platform adoption and partner engagement. Partnership decisions need a framework—Having a clear “build, buy, or partner” philosophy helps streamline product decisions. Ecosystem risk is real—Companies must account for partner stability and evolving technology trends when integrating third-party solutions. Key Quotes "Product leaders often don’t realize that partnerships can extend product capabilities without adding internal complexity." - Elena Leonova "If a product roadmap doesn’t make space for partners, it’s missing a massive opportunity for scale." - Asher Mathew "Product managers care about adoption—partners can help increase product stickiness and usage." - Kelly Sarabyn Final Thoughts Partnerships are a growth strategy that requires alignment between product, business, and developers. Whether you’re a product manager, a partner leader, or an executive, this episode is a masterclass in structuring partnerships for long-term success. #ProductLeadership #Partnerships #TechEcosystem #SaaS #PlatformStrategy

    54 min

  8. 4 FÉVR.

    Ep 34 | Debunking The B Team Myth in Partnerships

    Join hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn as they engage with Alan Chhabra, a seasoned executive with a rich history at MongoDB, now leading partnerships at Cerebras. This episode unpacks Alan's journey from engineering to executive roles, offering insights into building robust partner organizations and strategies for collaborating with hyperscalers. Chapters - - 01:24 - Alan's Background and Journey into Partnerships - 05:54 - Building a Successful Partner Organization at MongoDB - 10:09 - Challenges and Wins in Partnership Development - 24:38 - Strategies for Working with Hyperscalers - 31:32 - Building the Right Team and Infrastructure for Partnerships - 41:23 - The Importance of Enablement and Partner Marketing - 47:37 - Alan's Reflections on His Time at MongoDB - 52:34 - Alan's Transition to Cerebras and the AI Chip Market - 56:49 - Advice for CEOs on Structuring Partner and Sales Organizations Key Takeaways 1. Building Partnerships: Alan emphasizes aligning with the CEO, CRO, and CFO on a North Star goal to enhance sales productivity through partnerships. 2. Hyperscaler Strategies: Transforming relationships with cloud giants involves multi-cloud capabilities, leveraging marketplaces, and executive alignment. 3. Transition to Cerebras: Alan's move to Cerebras highlights the competitive AI chip market and the importance of scaling partnerships with hyperscalers and OEMs. 4. CEO Advice: Splitting the CRO role into separate heads for sales and partnerships is crucial in today's tech landscape. Key Quotes - "Being an immigrant in America, it's not always easy if you're first generation. So there is some challenges." - Alan Chhabra - "Losses can be turned into wins, but you got to be strategic about it, and you need a partner org to go do it." - Alan Chhabra - "How do you see the role of partnerships evolving in the next five years?" - Asher Mathew - "What are the key elements that make a partnership truly successful?" - Kelly Sarabyn

    1 h 3 min
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À propos

The world is changing fast—what worked yesterday won’t guarantee success tomorrow. On Unlearn, we bring you visionary leaders, bold strategies, and groundbreaking ideas shaping the future of business, innovation, and leadership. This isn’t just about adapting—it’s about evolving. We challenge outdated thinking, break free from convention, and explore what it really takes to thrive in a world where the only constant is change. If you’re ready to rethink the way you work, lead, and grow, you’re in the right place.

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