Evidence Based Recovery

Max Ariel

A podcast where we explore the science behind getting clean and sober, and why there may be a need for more inclusivity in the 12-step programs. Hosted by a certified addictions counselor who also has personal experience with addiction and recovery. Each episode will feature an interview with someone who is either in recovery or an expert in the field. We will explain how the classic 12-step recommendations can be understood in less scary terms. Also, we will discuss why certain therapeutic interventions are suggested and how they can be supported with research and evidence. There will be links to articles, studies, and research papers, making every claim easy to fact-check and read about. With so many spiritual and faith-based systems, we wanted to provide a safe space for people who are more evidence-minded or perhaps even have trauma from religion or spiritual abuse. We believe that recovery is possible for everyone, regardless of what you believe. And we can demonstrate that even the most stubborn, pedantic, agnostic, or atheist people can still find a way to achieve the self-reflection necessary for recovery. So join us and listen to some interesting stories from people all over the world battling their alcoholism and addiction one day at a time. Have fun clicking the links to make sure that we aren't just making it all up as we go. We invite any questions in the name of discussion, goodwill, and recovery. If you are like us, you will need evidence to believe anything we say, and that's perfectly ok. Whatever helps a person who suffers. Any questions, please email Max Ariel: iammaxariel@gmail.com Special thanks to the folks at Grammer for helping with the artwork and for helping us say what we wanted to say: https://grammercreative.com/

Episodes

  1. Ep. 9: Hugh T.M.

    04/26/2025

    Ep. 9: Hugh T.M.

    Today's guest is Hugh Taft Morales. He is the leader of the Philadelphia Ethical Society. I asked him to come on the show because I love the way he talks about helping people. You will see how ethics are so vital to the treatment of substance abuse disorders. Click the links below for further reading, and email me with any questions: iammaxariel@gmail.com Philadelphia Ethical Society: https://phillyethics.org/ Baltimore Ethical Society: https://bmorethical.org/ Felix Adler: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Felix-Adler-American-educator Basic Principles of Ethics: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7923912/ Freethinkers: https://ffrf.org/uncategorized/what-is-a-freethinker/ Secular Humanism: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-secular-life/202002/what-is-secular-humanism Reason: https://www.britannica.com/topic/logic Peer review: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4975196/ Ethics in counseling/therapy: https://positivepsychology.com/counseling-ethics-code/ Religious Literacy: https://bulletin.hds.harvard.edu/why-study-religion-in-the-twenty-first-century/ Support groups: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9508871/ Cirrhosis of the liver: https://americanaddictioncenters.org/alcohol/rehab-treatment/cirrhosis-symptoms What is a 501(c)(3): https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exemption-requirements-501c3-organizations Science Denial: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/truth-lies-consequences-science-denial How often people die from drug overdoses: https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/nation-s-overdose-epidemic/every-5-minutes-person-dies-drug-overdose-must-end

    42 min
  2. Ep. 8: Barbara H.

    04/07/2025

    Ep. 8: Barbara H.

    Our guest today is Barbara. She has a lot of time clean and sober and has also gone on to become an addictions counselor. With many years now in the field, Barbara has lots to share about her career and her time going to meetings. Click the links below to read more about the various topics discussed in this interview. Feel free to email me with any questions: iammaxariel@gmail.com Codependency: https://mhanational.org/resources/co-dependency/ Disease model of addiction: https://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/research-studies/addiction-research/brain-disease-model Exercising: https://www.health.harvard.edu/topics/exercise-and-fitness Reading: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5105607/ Gratitude: https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/health-benefits-gratitude Mindfulness: https://www.mindful.org/the-science-of-mindfulness/ Helping others: https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/explore-mental-health/kindness/kindness-matters-guide Humans are social creatures: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2527715/ Ethics in counseling/therapy: https://positivepsychology.com/counseling-ethics-code/ Quiet time/silent reflecting: https://www.stemlynsblog.org/the-science-of-silence/ Post-acute withdrawal symptoms: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/post-acute-withdrawal-syndrome#what-is-it Friendship: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2023/06/cover-story-science-friendship Support groups: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9508871/ Commitments: https://archives.joe.org/joe/2015august/tt4.php Habits and routines: https://www.healthline.com/health/the-science-of-habit#1

    37 min
  3. Ep. 7: Ivan R.

    04/06/2025

    Ep. 7: Ivan R.

    Today we have a very cool guest with a refreshingly positive outlook on going to rehab and making some changes. This young man has traveled from across the world to live in the USA and I feel grateful to hear his perspective on recovery. Click the links below to do some further reading on the topics discussed in the interview. Don't hesitate to reach out with any questions: iammaxariel@gmail.com Different cultures and addiction: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK248421/ Trying something new: https://rightasrain.uwmedicine.org/well/health/try-something-new Asking for help: https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2022/09/asking-help-hard-people-want-help-realize Vulnerability: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCvmsMzlF7o Making amends: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/what-the-wild-things-are/202107/why-making-amends-is-so-important Journaling: https://www.reflection.app/blog/benefits-of-journaling Helping others: https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/explore-mental-health/kindness/kindness-matters-guide Atomic theory: https://www.britannica.com/science/atomic-theory Secular 12 steps: https://aaagnostica.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Secular-12-Steps.pdf Self-esteem and recovery: https://www.rehab4addiction.co.uk/mental-health/connection-between-self-esteem-addiction Gratitude: https://positivepsychology.com/benefits-of-gratitude/ Discipline: https://kellercenter.hankamer.baylor.edu/news/story/2022/insider-power-discipline Goals: https://positivepsychology.com/benefits-goal-setting/

    40 min
  4. Ep. 6: Jo Lynn M.

    04/05/2025

    Ep. 6: Jo Lynn M.

    Our guest today is a distinguished woman from Virginia who is so modest and humble that it was almost impossible for me to get her to talk about her interesting career as a clinical psychologist. She thinks of herself as a person in recovery first and she is always ready to help a newcomer. Click the links below to read more about the topics discussed in this interview. Email me with any questions: iammaxariel@gmail.com Jo Lynn's email: jolynnmcclain@gmail.com Clinical Psychology: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-clinical-psychology-2795000 Recovery Dharma: https://recoverydharma.org/ Secular 12 steps: https://aaagnostica.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Secular-12-Steps.pdf Women’s support groups: https://www.forbes.com/sites/angelachan/2024/01/31/overcoming-challenges-together-the-benefits-of-womens-support-groups/ Cognitive Behavioral Therapy: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3584580/ Friendship: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2023/06/cover-story-science-friendship Helping others: https://mha.gbtesting.us/resources/help-others/ Plain Language AA Big Book: https://onlineliterature.aa.org/Plain-Language-Big-Book AA Big Book: https://www.aa.org/the-big-book Peer review: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4975196/ Reading: https://nesslabs.com/benefits-of-reading 12 Step Facilitation Treatment: https://www.recoveryanswers.org/resource/twelve-step-facilitation-tsf/ Bill Wilson quotes: https://aaagnostica.org/2016/02/06/relevant-quotes-for-secular-aa/

    40 min
  5. Ep. 5: Dan M.

    04/04/2025

    Ep. 5: Dan M.

    Our guest today is a friend of mine who is in recovery and has a lot of great wisdom to share. He is cool, calm and collected. He agreed to do this interview for the podcast and we tried to act very serious and professional. Click the links below to do further reading on the topics discussed in this interview. Reach out to me if you have any questions: iammaxariel@gmail.com Walking in the woods: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6888434/#:~:text=similarly%20found%20that%20a%2090,associated%20with%20rumination%20%5B47%5D. Quiet time/silent reflecting: https://www.stemlynsblog.org/the-science-of-silence/ Habits and routines: https://www.healthline.com/health/the-science-of-habit#1 Discipline: https://kellercenter.hankamer.baylor.edu/news/story/2022/insider-power-discipline Neuroscience and addiction: https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugs-brains-behavior-science-addiction/drugs-brain Vulnerability: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-well-when-your-body-doesnt-cooperate/202305/embracing-vulnerability Admitting you are wrong: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicolelipkin/2024/03/26/why-you-need-to-admit-your-mistakes-and-what-happens-when-you-dont/ Making amends: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/what-the-wild-things-are/202107/why-making-amends-is-so-important Goals: https://positivepsychology.com/benefits-goal-setting/ Helping others: https://mha.gbtesting.us/resources/help-others/ Combining therapy with AA: https://www.chaptersrecoverycenter.com/alcoholics-anonymous-and-therapy/#:~:text=Combining%20these%20two%20methods%20offers,chances%20of%20long%2Dterm%20success.

    40 min
  6. Ep. 4: Claire K.

    04/03/2025

    Ep. 4: Claire K.

    Today our guest is Claire. A veteran in the field of addiction counseling and recovery. You will hear a lot of good stuff in this interview. She has a ton of experience and she was kind enough to agree to this interview. Click the links below to do some further reading and reach out to me if you have any questions: iammaxariel@gmail.com Eating healthy: https://www.uhc.com/news-articles/healthy-living/8-mind-body-benefits-of-eating-healthy Exercising: https://www.health.harvard.edu/topics/exercise-and-fitness Bullying: https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2015/05/bullying-research Cognitive Behavioral Therapy: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/what-is-cognitive-behavioral-therapy-202406053047 Gratitude: https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/health-benefits-gratitude Women’s support groups: https://www.forbes.com/sites/angelachan/2024/01/31/overcoming-challenges-together-the-benefits-of-womens-support-groups/ Alcoholism/Addiction in families: https://dmh.lacounty.gov/our-services/employment-education/education/alcohol-abuse-faq/family-history/#:~:text=Many%20scientific%20studies%2C%20including%20research,population%20to%20develop%20alcohol%20problems. Ethics in counseling/therapy: https://counseling.education.wm.edu/blog/ethics-in-counseling#:~:text=Client%20welfare%20is%20at%20the,for%20their%20clients%20when%20necessary. Dual Diagnosis: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24426-dual-diagnosis Combining therapy with AA: https://www.cornerstonehealingcenter.com/resource/the-importance-of-combining-the-12-steps-and-therapy/ Women discussing trauma from abuse: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0740547219305811 Positive affirmations in the mirror: https://www.centreofexcellence.com/what-is-mirror-work/

    44 min
  7. Ep. 3: Andy F.

    04/02/2025

    Ep. 3: Andy F.

    Today we have the pleasure of speaking with the author of two books about recovery. Andy F. is Originally from the UK but now living in Thailand you will hear a compelling story and a unique perspective. Click the links below for further reading and reach out to me for any questions: iammaxariel@gmail.com “The 12 steps for Agnostics” by Andy F.: https://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Steps-Agnostics-happily-without/dp/B09CRM4P7T “You can’t be a real alcoholic if you don’t believe in god” by Andy F.: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CQ2V11SC Trauma from Spiritual Abuse: https://www.thechicagoschool.edu/insight/psychology/trauma-spiritual-abuse/ Helping others: https://mha.gbtesting.us/resources/help-others/ Journaling: https://www.reflection.app/blog/benefits-of-journaling Bullying: https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2015/05/bullying-research Mindfulness: https://www.mindful.org/the-science-of-mindfulness/ Swimming: https://www.cdc.gov/healthy-swimming/about/index.html Traveling: https://www.vox.com/ad/22979085/the-positive-impact-of-travel “The Power of Now” by Eckhart Tolle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Now Carl Rogers: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK589708/ Breathing exercises: https://www.uhhospitals.org/blog/articles/2024/02/breathe-your-way-to-better-health-and-less-stress Mindfulness: https://www.mindful.org/the-science-of-mindfulness/ Quiet time/silent reflecting: https://www.stemlynsblog.org/the-science-of-silence/ Secular 12 steps: https://aaagnostica.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Secular-12-Steps.pdf

    43 min
  8. Ep. 2: Michelle W.

    04/01/2025

    Ep. 2: Michelle W.

    Michelle is our first guest on the podcast! She celebrates her 1 year anniversary and shares about her journey so far in recovery. She is going to meetings, learning about the steps with her sponsor, and has already dealt with a very confusing and difficult relapse. We are proud to introduce her and we know that she will inspire people for sure. The following topics are discussed and you can read about them by clicking the links below. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to email me: iammaxariel@gmail.com Ace Score: https://www.samhsa.gov/sites/default/files/sptac-ace-role-of-substance-misuse-prevention.pdf Journaling: https://www.reflection.app/blog/benefits-of-journaling Helping others: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/between-cultures/201805/in-helping-others-you-help-yourself Friendship: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2023/06/cover-story-science-friendship Goals: https://positivepsychology.com/benefits-goal-setting/ Receiving coins and key tags: https://www.psychologyofgames.com/2016/07/why-do-achievements-trophies-and-badges-work/ Vulnerability: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-well-when-your-body-doesnt-cooperate/202305/embracing-vulnerability Support groups: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/stress-management/in-depth/support-groups/art-20044655 Women’s support groups: https://www.forbes.com/sites/angelachan/2024/01/31/overcoming-challenges-together-the-benefits-of-womens-support-groups/ Alcoholism/Addiction in families: https://americanaddictioncenters.org/alcohol/hereditary-genetic Trauma from Spiritual Abuse: https://www.thechicagoschool.edu/insight/psychology/trauma-spiritual-abuse/ Dangers of addiction/alcoholism: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/drug-addiction/symptoms-causes/syc-20365112

    46 min
  9. Ep. 1: Host Introduction

    03/31/2025

    Ep. 1: Host Introduction

    Hi. I'm Max. I'll be hosting this podcast, and I would like to explain the basic premise and what you can expect going forward. Every episode after this will be me interviewing a new person. The following topics are discussed in this episode and can be looked up for further reading in the links below. Email me with any questions: iammaxariel@gmail.com Helping others: https://mha.gbtesting.us/resources/help-others/ Making amends: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/what-the-wild-things-are/202107/why-making-amends-is-so-important Receiving coins and key tags: https://www.cowryconsulting.com/newsandviews/achievement-badges Asking for help: https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2022/09/asking-help-hard-people-want-help-realize Ethics in counseling/therapy: https://positivepsychology.com/counseling-ethics-code/ Trauma: https://www1.racgp.org.au/ajgp/2020/july/adult-survivors-of-childhood-trauma Car brakes being tested: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15143696/the-power-to-stop/ Secular 12 steps: https://aaagnostica.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Secular-12-Steps.pdf Evidence-Based Practices: https://hslguides.osu.edu/ebp/define Bill Wilson quotes: https://aaagnostica.org/2016/02/06/relevant-quotes-for-secular-aa/ The power of faith: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3671693/ Insurance covering rehab: https://americanaddictioncenters.org/drug-detox/insurance Spiritual Abuse: https://www.thechicagoschool.edu/insight/psychology/trauma-spiritual-abuse/ Dangers of addiction/alcoholism: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/drug-addiction/symptoms-causes/syc-20365112 Special thanks to the folks at Grammer for helping me set up this podcast: https://grammercreative.com/

    32 min

About

A podcast where we explore the science behind getting clean and sober, and why there may be a need for more inclusivity in the 12-step programs. Hosted by a certified addictions counselor who also has personal experience with addiction and recovery. Each episode will feature an interview with someone who is either in recovery or an expert in the field. We will explain how the classic 12-step recommendations can be understood in less scary terms. Also, we will discuss why certain therapeutic interventions are suggested and how they can be supported with research and evidence. There will be links to articles, studies, and research papers, making every claim easy to fact-check and read about. With so many spiritual and faith-based systems, we wanted to provide a safe space for people who are more evidence-minded or perhaps even have trauma from religion or spiritual abuse. We believe that recovery is possible for everyone, regardless of what you believe. And we can demonstrate that even the most stubborn, pedantic, agnostic, or atheist people can still find a way to achieve the self-reflection necessary for recovery. So join us and listen to some interesting stories from people all over the world battling their alcoholism and addiction one day at a time. Have fun clicking the links to make sure that we aren't just making it all up as we go. We invite any questions in the name of discussion, goodwill, and recovery. If you are like us, you will need evidence to believe anything we say, and that's perfectly ok. Whatever helps a person who suffers. Any questions, please email Max Ariel: iammaxariel@gmail.com Special thanks to the folks at Grammer for helping with the artwork and for helping us say what we wanted to say: https://grammercreative.com/