Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy David Burns, MD

Special Announcement #1 Attend the Legendary Summer Intensive Featuring Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt August 8 - 11. 2024 Learn Advanced TEAM-CBT skills Heal yourself, heal your patients First Intensive in 5 years! It will knock your socks off! Limited Seating--Act Fast Click for registration / more information! Sadly, this workshop is a training program which will be limited to therapists and mental health professionals and graduate students in a mental health field  Apologies, but therapists have complained when non-therapists have attended our continuing education training programs. This is partly because of the intimate nature of the small group exercises and the personal work the therapists may do during the workshop. Certified coaches and counselors are welcome to attend.
Special Announcement #2 Here's some GREAT news! The Feeling Great App is now available in both app stores (IOS and Android) and is for therapists and the general public, and you can take a ride for free! Check it
Today's Podcast Practical Philosophy Month Part 1, The Free Will Problem Welcome to Practical Philosophy month. For the next five weeks, we will discuss some of the most popular and challenging problems in philosophy, such as these:
Do human beings have free will? Or is free will just an illusion? Do human beings have a “self?” Or is the “self” just another illusion? Is it possible to be more or less “worthwhile?” Are some humans “better” or “worse” than others? Does God exist? Is the universe “real” or “one”? What’s the meaning of life? What is “self-esteem”? How does it differ from self-confidence? What’s the difference between conditional and unconditional self-esteem? What’s the difference between self-esteem and self-acceptance? What do you have to do to experience joy and feelings of worthwhileness? We will try to complete the list in five weeks, so some weeks we may include more than one topic, since many of these topics are related to one another.
Rhonda and David will be joined by our beloved Dr. Matt May, a regular on our Ask David episodes, and for the first and second sessions we will be joined by our beloved Dr. Fabrice Nye, who created and hosted the Feeling Good Podcasts several years ago.
Each week, you will also hear about the linkage between these philosophical dilemmas, and emotional problems, like depression, anxiety, and relationship conflicts. For example, nearly all depressed individuals believe that they aren’t sufficiently “worthwhile.” I see my goal as a psychiatrist not as helping people feel “more worthwhile,” but rather showing people, if interested, how to give up this notion entirely and become free of certain kinds of damaging judgments of the “self” and others.
You will also learn how these types of philosophical problems continue to play a large role in psychiatry and psychology, including the DSM5 diagnostic system. For example, is the diagnosis of “Generalized Anxiety Disorder” a true “mental disorder” that you could “have” or “not have?”
And might some or most of the so-called “mental disorders” listed in the DSM be based on faulty philosophical / logical thinking? And if many or most of the “mental disorders” are based on goofy, faulty thinking, is there a more productive and effective way to think about most emotional problems?
And how did we get into this mess in the first place?
Worrying certainly exists, and we all worry at times. But how much or how often do you have to worry before you develop or have a “mental disorder” called “Generalized Anxiety Disorder” that can be diagnosed like any medical illness and treated with drugs?
Or is “Generalized Anxiety Disorder” (and hundreds of other “mental disorders in the DSM” based on a certain kind of nonsensical thinking? And if so, why? What is the goofy, faulty thinking in the DSM? And are there some “mental disorders” that are valid and real?

Special Announcement #1 Attend the Legendary Summer Intensive Featuring Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt August 8 - 11. 2024 Learn Advanced TEAM-CBT skills Heal yourself, heal your patients First Intensive in 5 years! It will knock your socks off! Limited Seating--Act Fast Click for registration / more information! Sadly, this workshop is a training program which will be limited to therapists and mental health professionals and graduate students in a mental health field  Apologies, but therapists have complained when non-therapists have attended our continuing education training programs. This is partly because of the intimate nature of the small group exercises and the personal work the therapists may do during the workshop. Certified coaches and counselors are welcome to attend.
Special Announcement #2 Here's some GREAT news! The Feeling Great App is now available in both app stores (IOS and Android) and is for therapists and the general public, and you can take a ride for free! Check it
Today's Ask David Podcast We have lots of great questions today. The answers in the show notes were written prior to the podcast, and the answers in the live podcast as we discussed these questions may differ somewhat or amplify the written materials in these show notes.
We love your questions. Remember to send them to David@feelinggood.com.
Ask David Questions for Today
Bosley asks: My father can be very critical of my plans for the future. What’s the best way to respond to him? Willie asks: I have a dating questions. Why do women keep ghosting me? Should they be more willing to work out differences with the Five Secrets of Communication? 1. Bosley asks: My father can be very critical of my plans for the future. What’s the best way to respond to him? "To explain somewhat concisely, I just want to move to the nearest major city (Seattle) since I feel really really happy there. I also love volunteering for a specific organization and have some community there that I care about, and I feel very isolated having been away from for months.
I'm willing to carry the load of all the work I would need to do to make it happen, and do a business training my dad wants me to complete.
He has other thoughts. He looks down on volunteering and his thoughts on friends are simply that I can make new ones anyway. He is very aggressive and intimidating in his arguments, full of insults and many factually incorrect statements that are difficult to disarm on the fly.
He shoots down the idea upon mention, so it's difficult to collaborate to find mutually beneficial solutions. He is a successful businessman, despite recent financial issues, and has a sort of strict plan for me that he has wanted me to follow, although I really don't feel this conflicts with his goals to have me run things in the future.
I'm just worried since he has a long past of being emotionally abusive and of going back on his word. Plus, I just want some autonomy.
In the end, it's his way or the highway. He says “You keep scheming and going down a twisted path instead of doing what I tell you.”
David’s reply I suggested he might complete the first four steps of the Relationship Journal so we could see how he’s communicating with his dad. Here is Bosley’s partially partially completed Relationship Journal (showing steps 1 to 4, but not 5.)
 
Step 1 – S/he said: Write down exactly what the other person said. Be brief:
You keep scheming and going down a twisted path instead of doing what I tell you!
Step 2 – I said: Write down exactly what you said next. Be brief:
What?
Circle or bold the emotions S/HE might have been feeling Circle or bold the emotions YOU were feeling Sad, blue, depressed, down, unhappy Sad, blue, depressed, down, unhappy Anxious, worried, panicky, nervous, frightened Anxious, worried, panicky, nervous, frightened Guilty, remorseful, bad, ashamed Guilty, remorseful, bad, ashamed Inferior, worthless, inadequate, defe

A Riveting Story of Raw Emotion. . . “Dad, I let you down!" Part 2 of 2   Special Announcement  The long awaited Feeling Great App is now available in app stores. IOS and android! Check it out. Take a free ride! And now, on with the exciting conclusion of the personal work Dr. Jill Levitt and I did with Chris, along with a fabulous followup interview you will hear at the end of the session.
I hope you enjoyed the session with Chis, and hope you found it inspiring. His message of hope and joy could be helpful and inspiring to any of you who may be struggling, and feeling, as he was, that you're just "not good enough." His work is, of course, important from a psychological perspective, because it illustrates the powerful steps of TEAM in a sequence that brought Chris from the depths of despair to the peaks of enlightenment. However, as you will hear in the postscript dialogue, the work for sure takes on a spiritual and mystical quality for sure!
When you hear Chris live during the follow-up interview at the end of Part 2 of this two-part podcast, you will not be disappointed!
Postscript As I mentioned earlier, I was overjoyed when I learned that Chris had unexpectedly changed his mind and offered us the chance to publish his personal work and provide a follow-up recording of how he’s doing now.
Here’s my email to him just prior to the follow-up recording.
Hi Chris,
I’m assuming that Rhonda will coordinate this and she has us scheduled for this Friday, I believe. When it is 4 PM in your time zone, what time is it in our time zone? Are you two hours later?
I just reviewed my chart notes from a year or so ago, and it will be terrific to reconnect with you. I deeply appreciate the chance to share your session with our many listeners, as it is full of raw emotion and is riveting. You are making a super strong statement to the world, to my way of thinking, and it takes incredible courage to say, “This is me! I am very real, and sometimes very raw!”
I think many people suffer due to thinking that everyone else is somehow “better” than they are, and that they are somehow “not good enough.” That is perhaps the main theme I hear when doing clinical work, and that includes my work with mental health professionals who are equally vulnerable to this kind of thinking.
What triggered your decision to go public, so to speak. And how might this impact your students, and their parents, and so forth?
Hopefully, we can chat this Friday about those and any other questions or topics that touch or interest you. It will be great to get caught up on your past year!
If Jill or Rhonda want to add your thoughts, please do! To me, this is a very significant occasion to have the chance to connect with you, Chris, again! The work you did is among the most powerful and impactful ever in my memory, although every time we do live work it is pretty incredible to my way of thinking, especially when people become “real,” whatever that means!
Humans have a dark side, to be sure to my way of thinking, but something incredibly beautiful and amazing can emerge.
I am babbling so will stop. But I am so excited to talk to you again, Chris!
Warmly, david
Thank you for listening, and please let us know what you think.
if you are a therapist, and want to learn how to do this, consider attending the summer intensive from August 8 to 11, on line, or in person at the South San Francisco Conference Center (ten minutes from the SF airport.) See the details and a link below, or go to www.cbtintensive.com.
Chris, Rhonda, Jill, and David
Click for registration / more information!

A Riveting Story of Raw Emotion. . . “Dad, I let you down!"   Special Announcement  The long awaited Feeling Great App is now available in app stores. IOS and android! Check it out. Take a free ride! And now, on with today's podcast!
Part 1 of 2 Our work with Chris started with this email:
Hi David and Jill,
I am 40 years old and have never been in a relationship. I've only had a handful of sexual experiences.
I used to carry a lot of shame around this, but have done some work on myself, have more or less come to terms with where I'm at, and actually really enjoy my life and am pretty happy most of the time. However, I recently developed some strong feelings towards a coworker, and this led me to re-evaluate my stance on being single.
The DML (LINK) details an incident from last week concerning this coworker. I haven't had extensive interactions with her and she works at a different site. Our clinical team meets twice monthly for online zoom meetings. She recommended a book to the team a few months ago, I read the book and enjoyed it, and was hoping to meet up with her and talk about it sometime. I was feeling a little terrified and didn't know if it was the right thing to do, but ultimately sent her an email asking if she'd like to speak with me about the book sometime.
She politely declined the invitation. The daily mood log documents the hour or two immediately after I sent the email, as well as some of the thoughts that happened after I received her reply.
There were a lot of negative thoughts, so I only included a few. There were also a number of hidden thoughts/beliefs that occurred to me over the last few days, which I have not included.
It seems worth noting that for 2-3 hours after I sent the email, I experienced a lot of emotional turmoil. However, at 4pm when I got off work, from the long drive home until I went to bed, I was in a euphoric state. I was happy about what I did, how I responded to the rejection, and was optimistic about my future. I was working out at the gym and had a hard time keeping a smile off my face.
I went to bed feeling great, but woke up in the middle of the night and felt terrible again, the painful sting of rejection kept me from sleeping. Since then, I've mostly felt just fine about it, only a few brief moments of really feeling that sting and they don't last long.
My goal isn't to necessarily get into a relationship or have more sex; it's to feel more confident in my interactions with women. After being rejected, I think 15 seconds of agony is enough, no need for more than that. In the past, when I've developed strong feelings towards a woman, I notice that I am prone to both negative and positive distortions, some version of:
"It's the end of the world if she isn't attracted to me," or "She's perfect for me; there is no one else like her," or "Sex with a beautiful woman will complete my life, or completely fulfill me". I think I'd be better off without these distortions, but find the positive distortions to be somewhat addictive. They also make it hard for me to let go and move on. I still feel somewhat attached to this woman and haven't been able to let go and move on.
Also, I want to note that there are a few experiences from high school that really impacted my sexuality, relationship with women, and probably inform some core beliefs on these subjects that have recently come to surface. I'm not sure how much to share about this or whether it's even necessary to, but I suppose that could be addressed in the empathy phase on Tuesday.
One other thing that I didn't include in the DML, is when I'm in that negative state, sometimes I have intense thoughts directed at me that come in the form of the second person, like
You're a piece of shit. I fucking hate you. Cut your throat You don't deserve to be alive. I'll fucking kill you. I don't really believe these thoughts, but they do make me sad.
Hope this all makes sense, let me know if you have questions or if

Ask David Unfairness Worthwhileness Erasing Depression with Lasers TEAM in the UK What's the Most Powerful Technique? We have lots of great questions today. The answers in the show notes were written prior to the podcast, and the answers in the live podcast as we discussed these questions may differ somewhat or amplify the written materials in these show notes.
We love your questions. Remember to send them to David@feelinggood.com.
Special Announcement Attend the Legendary Summer Intensive Featuring Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt August 8 - 11. 2024 Learn Advanced TEAM-CBT skills Heal yourself, heal your patients First Intensive in 5 years! It will knock your socks off! Limited Seating--Act Fast Click for registration / more information! Sadly, this workshop is a training program which will be limited to therapists and mental health professionals and graduate students in a mental health field  Apologies, but therapists have complained when non-therapists have attended our continuing education training programs. This is partly because of the intimate nature of the small group exercises and the personal work the therapists may do during the workshop. Certified coaches and counselors are welcome to attend.
But there's some good news, too! The Feeling Great App is now available in both app stores (IOS and Android) and is for therapists and the general public, and you can take a ride for free! Check it out!
Today’s Questions
Kiernan asks about “unfairness” and the connection between worthwhileness and achievement. Brittany asks: Can you “erase” feelings of sadness and depression by shining lasers in the patient’s eyes? James asks about the use of TEAM methods in the NHS in the UK Brian asks: Is positive reframing the most successful technique you have used with your patients? 1. Kieran asks (slightly edited for clarity): How would you talk back to negative thoughts like this one: “It's not fair that I can't afford quality food when there are millionaires that will have access to better food and a healthier lifestyle which has an effect on overall health and longevity'”? Or what if you feel like it’s unfair that you should have to pay a lot of money for an expensive dental treatment that you can’t afford? Kieran also asks (slightly edited by david): What if worthwhileness is not based on achievement but there are still things you would like to have and enjoy? They would buy and own things that they happen to like and not to impress others. Hi David and Ronda, and if Matt is on
I have been listening to your wonderful podcast for about the last 3 years as I drive to work. It has really opened my eyes about how your thoughts create your interpersonal reality. Loved the podcasts on jealousy addiction, perfectionism, achievement addiction and many more.
My questions would be: What about if someone wants to achieve more but it isn't based on worthwhileness? They would buy and own things that they happen to like and not to impress others.
Let's say they wanted to be able to afford a nice house, healthier higher quality food and water. As the quality does have an effect on health especially in the US as the regulations are not the greatest.
However, the fact that they couldn't afford to buy these upsets them? Thoughts: 'It's not fair that I can't afford quality food but there are millionaires that will have access to better food, lifestyle which has an effect on overall health and longevity'
Or if someone has to pay for unexpected expensive dental treatment.
Thoughts: 'It's not fair that I have to pay £14,000 for this treatment'. 'It should be more affordable to lower income households, as it is essential to have functional teeth'
I hope I have explained this well, I would love to hear your thoughts. Keep doing what you are doing and all the best.
Kieran
 
David’s response Sure Kieran, if you like I will make this an Ask David question for a podcast. LMK if that’s okay, and if it is okay to

Ask David Bipolar, the Dark Side, Changing Behavior We have lots of great questions today. The answers in the show notes were written prior to the podcast, and the answers in the live podcast as we discussed these questions may differ somewhat or amplify the written materials in these show notes.
We love your questions. Remember to send them to David@feelinggood.com.
Announcement: Our awesome summer intensive is returning after a long, five years due to the pandemic. It is typically the most outstanding and rewarding TEAM-CBT training of the year, and it will take place again and the wonderful South San Francisco Conference Center from August 8 – 11, 2025.
You can attend in person if you register soon, since in-person seating will be strictly limited and only a small number are still available. You can also attend the online, live-streamed version of this program at a substantial discount. The online experience and small group exercises will be similar for the in-person and online participants.
Check out the details, including early-bird discounts, at www.cbtintensive.com
www.cbtintensive.com
Hope to see you there!
Warmly, david
Today’s Questions
Alison asks: I have bipolar Disorder and I have had trouble challenging my negative thoughts. I’m suffering. What can I do NAME WITHHELD asks: Can or should a person really and truly accept their dark side? Trainor asks: In TEAM there is a strong emphasis on changing the way you think. But is it sometimes also important to change your behavior, or to make real changes in your life, or to help others who need help changing their circumstances==for example, people who are struggling in poverty.  
1. Alison asks: I have bipolar Disorder and I have had trouble challenging my negative thoughts. I’m suffering. What can I do? Hi David,
Many years ago I used your book to beat depressive thinking… in the last three years I’ve been diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and have found my depressive thinking too difficult to budge with your book.
I’m really suffering; any ideas about what I could do?
Thank you for your service to humanity. I always recommend your book.
David’s response
Hi Alison,
A therapist could help. The new Feeling Great App could help. And tons of free resources at www.feelinggood.com.
In addition, can you please give me an example of the negative thoughts you can’t budge. Then we can point things out in the podcast and try to figure out why you’re getting stuck!
I have found that doing cognitive therapy / TEAM-CBT with individuals with Bipolar Disorder is exceptionally helpful during the depressed (not manic) phase, and works pretty much the same way as with anyone who’s feeling down.
Best, david
 
2. NAME WITHHELD asks: Can or should a person really and truly accept their dark side? Hello David,
My name is NAME WITHHELD and I am doing my PhD degree in Neuroimmunology in LOCATION WITHHELD. I had come across your book feeling good and your podcasts by one of my therapists - they have had an immense impact on my way of thinking.
I really love disarming and using “I feel” statements to connect! I had also realized that by finding some genuine truth in a person’s belief even if it sounds ridiculous, I would automatically develop certain level of respect for that person! I really love that! I feel really happy that I can respect a person even without accepting his/her beliefs!!
I am now working on my distortions. I really love working on my mind that way.
Anyway, I have wanted to ask you if a person CAN accept his/her dark side? I seemed to have loathed myself for quite a long time and couldn’t stand living alone without a partner or a person around. I hated myself for disrespecting my mother whilst growing up.
But, sometime during Dec last year, I had had an epiphany of why things happened the way they did and somehow, I learnt that the reason why I had disrespected my mother was because my father, after their separation,