Follow the Gradient

Follow the Gradient
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Insider knowledge and real stories about how to build a business from Europe while staying sane. Each week founders Melanie Gabriel and Christian Woese dive deep into one specific topic on a founder's or startup operator's mind and share how to solve the challenge together with an expert. Follow the Gradient and stay tuned. https://followthegradient.io/

  1. "Organic growth won't get us to 100 million" | Francine Gervazio, Shiftmove

    17H AGO

    "Organic growth won't get us to 100 million" | Francine Gervazio, Shiftmove

    What do you do when organic growth cannot get you to 100 million ARR? In this episode of Follow the Gradient, Melanie Gabriel and Christian Woese sit down with Francine Gervazio, CEO of Shiftmove, and Wouter Hendriks, the company's CFO. Francine appeared on Follow the Gradient in Episode 2, when she was preparing to sell Avrios. Since then, Avrios merged with Vimcar to form Shiftmove, and the company has executed multiple acquisitions as part of a PE-backed buy-and-build strategy to reach 100M ARR. This is not a theoretical conversation about M&A. It is a CEO and CFO sitting next to each other, explaining the real mechanics of how they evaluate, finance, execute, and integrate acquisitions. Including the parts nobody talks about. We talk about: Why organic growth hit a wall in a fragmented market with 80% white space but slow adoption, and why buying became the logical pathThe three types of acquisitions: buying customers, opening geographies, and acquiring skills. Which ones work and which are a stretchHow to finance acquisitions with debt vs equity, why debt is often better for founders, and what covenant headroom actually meansThe Rule of 40 is now the Rule of 50: how acquisition targets are evaluated against the combined financial profileWhy every acquisition Wouter has done, he regretted not integrating faster. The case for day-one changes: blending communication tools, rebranding offices, aligning reporting immediatelyThe biggest due diligence surprise: undocumented liabilities, customer promises nobody told you about, and the 15 people waiting for a promotion on day oneFrancine's integration philosophy: "If you're not aligned with the culture, I'd rather replace as soon as possible. Nobody is irreplaceable."How 5 executives from 5 nationalities use cultural awareness as a strategic tool: the Canadian builds trust, the Dutchman pushes execution, and the CEO reads the roomWhy middle management is the most powerful tool for spreading culture after an acquisition Our biggest takeaways, including Francine's view on why most founders underestimate the 18 months after an acquisition closes: https://www.followthegradient.io/p/francine-gervazio-wouter-hendriks-podcast  — Where to find the guests: Francine Gervazio LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/francinegervazio/  Wouter Hendriks LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wouter-hendriks-4432306a/  Shiftmove: https://www.shiftmove.com  — 🎙 Follow the Gradient: conversations about building a business from Europe while staying sane. Follow us:  Melanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniexgabriel/  Christian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-woese/  Subscribe to our channels: Newsletter: https://www.followthegradient.io  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@followthegradient LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/followthegradient/  X: https://x.com/followgradient  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followthegradient/ — 00:00 Introduction 01:32 From Avrios to Shiftmove: why organic growth was not enough 11:07 Financial architecture: debt vs equity and when to use which 20:53 How to know if your company can afford an acquisition 25:53 Due diligence surprises and the problems you inherit 32:58 Day one after acquisition: everything you hated is now yours 38:30 Integration speed: why faster is always better 40:46 Culture integration: values, middle management, and no politics 51:09 Rapid fire: the biggest mistakes in M&A

    53 min
  2. Motherhood made me a stronger CEO | Julia Bösch, Outfittery

    MAR 19

    Motherhood made me a stronger CEO | Julia Bösch, Outfittery

    What happens when biology runs on a completely different clock than your company? In this episode of Follow the Gradient, Melanie Gabriel and Christian Woese sit down with Julia Bösch, co-founder and CEO of Outfittery. Julia built the company from zero to 300 employees across 10 markets, doubling revenue every year. In her early 30s, while the business was at full scale, she made a decision that had nothing to do with fundraising or product: she froze her eggs. This is not a conversation about whether founders can have it all. It is one of the most honest exchanges we have recorded about what it actually costs and what it actually takes to combine building a family with building a company. We talk about: Why Julia treated egg freezing as a strategic investment, not an insurance policy, and why she calls it the best investment of her life The advice from another female founder that reframed the "you'll just feel it" narrative: for some women, the clock never ticks and the decision must be planned Why partner choice is a career decision, not just a romantic one, and what it means to have a partner "confident enough" to be the primary caregiver How motherhood biologically rewired Julia's leadership: radical prioritization of energy over time, not just calendar management The practical infrastructure that makes baby and business possible: invest aggressively in support, renegotiate with your partner regularly, and accept that perfection is gone Why founding a company is actually easier than corporate for combining family, because founders can design their own setup This is not a playbook. It is two founders and a host sharing the decisions, trade-offs, and systems they built around one of the most personal tensions in entrepreneurship. Julia's take on what ambitious women often misjudge about timing, control, and the cost of waiting: https://www.followthegradient.io/p/julia-boesch-podcast  — Where to find Julia Bösch: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julia-b%C3%B6sch/  Company: https://www.outfittery.com  — 🎙 Follow the Gradient: conversations about building a business from Europe while staying sane. Follow us:  Melanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniexgabriel/  Christian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-woese/  Subscribe to our channels: Newsletter: https://www.followthegradient.io  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@followthegradient LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/followthegradient/  X: https://x.com/followgradient  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followthegradient/ — 00:00 Introduction 02:20 Egg freezing: Julia's decision in her early 30s 07:00 The process: hormone treatments, two cycles, and building Outfittery at the same time 10:24 Sharing the story publicly: why vulnerability was worth it 16:35 Baby and business: not an or, but an and 18:03 What male co-founders underestimate about the female founder experience 25:57 Partner choice as a career decision 28:09 The practical setup: nannies, shared calendars, and regular renegotiation 34:16 How motherhood made Julia a stronger CEO 36:10 Staying sane: coaches, psychologists, EO peer groups, and dancing 44:01 The 80th birthday exercise and WOOP framework for goal setting

    47 min
  3. How Robotics Startups Actually Survive | #1 Robotics influencer Lukas Ziegler

    MAR 12

    How Robotics Startups Actually Survive | #1 Robotics influencer Lukas Ziegler

    What happens when a $39 billion humanoid bet can't do useful work, but a wheeled robot in a warehouse already turns a profit? In this episode of Follow the Gradient, Melanie and Christian sit down with Lukas Ziegler, robotics evangelist, triple venture partner, and the person whose content reaches over 100 million people a year. From programming cobots in Poland to advising robotics startups across three VC funds, Lukas has seen both the factory floor and the fundraising pitch. This conversation cuts through the humanoid hype to examine what actually generates industrial ROI, why simulation alone won't close the gap, and what European founders get wrong about choosing their investors. We talk about: Why 80% of humanoid functionality can be delivered by wheeled robots at a fraction of the cost, and why VCs still fund the other form The reliability cliff: how 95% success in the lab translates to destroyed ROI in 24/7 industrial operations Why narrowing your task scope until failure modes are countable is the real path from demo to production The sim-to-real gap: NVIDIA Cosmos helps you pre-train at scale, but real-world teleoperation data remains irreplaceable Why robotics founders should run due diligence on their investors, not just the reverse, especially with SaaS-focused VCs Poland's emergence as an underestimated AI and robotics hub, and where the European ecosystem actually holds structural advantages This is not a conversation about when robots will change the world. It is about the compounding decisions that separate robotics companies shipping revenue from those shipping demos. Our biggest takeaways, including Lukas's view on where robotics founders consistently misjudge their path to production: https://www.followthegradient.io/p/lukas-ziegler-podcast  — Where to find Lukas M. Ziegler: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zieglerr/  X: https://x.com/lukas_m_ziegler  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@zieglerrr  Newsletter: https://ziegler.substack.com/  — 🎙 Follow the Gradient: conversations about building a business from Europe while staying sane. Follow us:  Melanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniexgabriel/  Christian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-woese/  Subscribe to our channels: Newsletter: https://www.followthegradient.io  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@followthegradient LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/followthegradient/  X: https://x.com/followgradient  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followthegradient/ — 00:00 Introduction 02:28 From programming robots to becoming the world's top robotics voice 05:10 The 80/20 rule: wheeled robots vs. humanoids 08:10 Safety gaps and the missing ISO standard for legged robots 12:03 How to Derive Real ROI From Robots 20:19 Reliability as a product: the path from 95% to 99.9% 26:35 Boring problems win: Zipline, Exotec, and narrow task mastery 29:17 Customer discovery: how to find the right robotic use case 33:32 Tesla's 8.4 billion miles of data and why it doesn't help robots 38:23 Europe in the global robotics race: talent, manufacturing, and EU Inc 47:08 Rapid fire: the questions that reveal if a robot is production-ready

    51 min
  4. The SaaS playbook is dead. What replaces it? | Andreas Goeldi, b2venture

    MAR 5

    The SaaS playbook is dead. What replaces it? | Andreas Goeldi, b2venture

    Most founders think they can save their SaaS business by sprinkling AI on top. They're wrong. The entire playbook that powered the last two decades of software is being rewritten. In this conversation on Follow the Gradient, Andreas Goeldi, Partner at b2venture and a serial entrepreneur with 30+ years in technology, breaks down how AI is fundamentally reshaping what software businesses look like, how they price, and who survives. This is not a conversation about AI features or hype cycles. It is a clear-eyed examination of which business models are emerging, which are dying, and what separates the founders who adapt from those who get left behind. We talk about: Why the traditional SaaS playbook with 80% margins is incompatible with real AI integration The shift from selling tools to selling outcomes, and why customers have always wanted this Two categories of AI startups that are almost guaranteed to fail How general-purpose agents are becoming the "Excel of AI" and eating niche products Why half of all developers refuse to use AI coding tools and what that means for their careers What happens to organizations when middle management layers start disappearing This episode is less about what AI can do and more about what it forces you to decide. Andreas brings the rare combination of someone who built companies for two decades before switching to investing in them, and his frameworks cut through the noise with uncomfortable clarity. Our biggest takeaways, including Andreas's reality check on where most founders are dangerously delusional about AI: https://www.followthegradient.io/p/andreas-goeldi-podcast  Where to find Andreas Goeldi: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/agoeldi/  b2venture: https://www.b2venture.vc  Blog (Innospective): https://innospective.net/  — 🎙 Follow the Gradient: conversations about building a business from Europe while staying sane. Follow us:  Melanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniexgabriel/  Christian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-woese/  Subscribe to our channels: Newsletter: https://www.followthegradient.io  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@followthegradient LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/followthegradient/  X: https://x.com/followgradient  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followthegradient/ — 00:00 Introduction 02:22 The biggest delusion in AI right now 04:55 Four buckets of AI business models 07:58 AI pricing in times of vibe coding 13:55 The real moats left in AI: data, regulation, and user experience 17:48 Two startup ideas you should never build right now 22:17 What existing SaaS founders must do to survive 25:49 Why middle management is about to disappear 33:01 How AI is transforming venture capital from the inside 37:11 Do startups still need VCs when four people can hit millions? 43:03 Rapid fire: thin wrappers, CTO hiring, and European quality

    48 min
  5. Europe's talent flywheel has finally kicked in | Tom Wehmeier, Atomico

    FEB 26

    Europe's talent flywheel has finally kicked in | Tom Wehmeier, Atomico

    Most European founders believe the ecosystem is catching up. What if the real constraint isn't capital or talent, but the collective psychology that keeps us from acting like we've already arrived? In this episode of Follow the Gradient, we sit down with Tom Wehmeier, Partner at Atomico and the architect behind the State of European Tech report for over a decade. Tom has a rare vantage point: he tracks ecosystem fundamentals through data and sees how they play out firsthand through Atomico's investment portfolio. This is a conversation about what the numbers actually say versus what founders feel, where European tech has genuinely compounded, and where fragility still hides in plain sight. We talk about: Why sentiment and belief remain Europe's most fragile infrastructure, even as fundamentals have never been stronger How talent is flowing from US megatech into European startups and why that shift took a decade to pay off The three things blocking pension funds from venture allocation, including one nobody talks about: in-house talent Why 30% of companies at Series C relocate abroad and the gravitational pull that drives it How breakout companies like DeepL, Lovable, and Framer share a common thread: narrative clarity Why fragmentation across European markets is what built global resilience in companies like Spotify and Booking This episode is not a cheerleading session. It is a clear-eyed look at where conviction is earned, where it is borrowed, and where the gap between data and narrative still needs closing. Our biggest takeaways, including Tom's view on what founders consistently misread about Europe's exit data: https://www.followthegradient.io/p/tom-wehmeier-podcast  Where to find Tom Wehmeier: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomwehmeier/  Email: tom@atomico.com  State of European Tech: https://stateofeuropeantech.com  Atomico: https://atomico.com  — 🎙 Follow the Gradient: conversations about building a business from Europe while staying sane. Follow us:  Melanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniexgabriel/  Christian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-woese/  Subscribe to our channels: Newsletter: https://www.followthegradient.io  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@followthegradient LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/followthegradient/  X: https://x.com/followgradient  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followthegradient/ — 00:00 Introduction 03:07 Europe's ecosystem fundamentals have never been stronger 10:51 Where the friction shows up: go-to-market and fragmentation 13:21 What will improve soon vs what founders must design around 17:09 Europe's 4.6 million tech workers and where the talent advantage breaks down 19:52 The compounding talent flywheel across generations 24:38 Why 30% of companies relocate abroad at Series C 28:45 The pension fund bottleneck: perception, regulation, and talent 37:20 What breakout European companies do differently 43:59 Rapid fire

    48 min
  6. The Hire Most Founders Make Too Late | Kate Connolly, KaaS

    FEB 19

    The Hire Most Founders Make Too Late | Kate Connolly, KaaS

    Investors don't invest in you to be a very expensive administrator. So why are you still managing your own calendar at Series A? In this conversation on Follow the Gradient, Kate Connolly, founder of KaaS and former Chief of Staff at DeepMind, breaks down why most founders wait too long to get executive support and what it costs them when they do. This is not a conversation about hiring an assistant. It is about how operational leverage changes the speed of every decision a founder makes, from fundraising to hiring to product. We talk about: Why you cannot solve the strategy problem before you solve the operational problem The concrete difference between an EA and a chief of staff, and which one you actually need first What VCs privately tell Kate about founders who refuse to delegate How a 60-minute calendar audit can reveal where your week is leaking Why the most common chief of staff hires fail within months due to role scoping What great EAs do before they are asked, and how to interview for that instinct This is not a playbook for outsourcing tasks. It is a conversation about what changes in a company when the founder stops being the bottleneck, and what it takes to get out of your own way. Our biggest takeaways, including Kate's view on where founders misjudge their own leverage: https://www.followthegradient.io/p/kate-connolly-podcast  — Where to find Kate Connolly: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kateconnollylondon/  Website: https://withkaas.com  — 🎙 Follow the Gradient: conversations about building a business from Europe while staying sane. Follow us:  Melanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniexgabriel/  Christian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-woese/  Subscribe to our channels: Newsletter: https://www.followthegradient.io  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@followthegradient LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/followthegradient/  X: https://x.com/followgradient  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followthegradient/ — 00:00 Introduction 02:30 When founder mode becomes the bottleneck 07:29 EA vs Chief of Staff: defining the roles clearly 11:24 The 15-person chief of staff trap 14:46 The cost of waiting too long: velocity 17:08 The 60-minute calendar audit 19:09 Building your EA into a second brain 26:37 What to look for when hiring an EA 32:41 When everything compounds: 12-24 months in 34:41 Working with C Levels 46:01 Rapid fire

    48 min
  7. Why Great Founders Fire Earlier Than They’re Comfortable With | Paddy Lambros, Dex CEO and ex Atomico

    FEB 12

    Why Great Founders Fire Earlier Than They’re Comfortable With | Paddy Lambros, Dex CEO and ex Atomico

    What actually breaks a startup first: moving too slowly, or hiring the wrong people too fast? Founders often think speed is the answer, until speed quietly becomes the problem. Follow the Gradient sits down with Paddy Lamb, Talent Partner at Atomico, who has helped scale teams from the first hire to hundreds of people across multiple continents. Drawing on a decade inside fast growing startups and venture portfolios, Paddy brings a grounded view on what really compounds and what quietly erodes a company early on. This conversation is less about hiring tactics and more about how founders make irreversible people decisions under pressure. It surfaces the trade offs behind growth, quality, accountability, and the standards that shape a company long after the first few hires. We talk about: Why hiring one month later is often cheaper than fixing a rushed hire for a year How to design early teams around capabilities instead of default job titles What strong employer branding looks like when you have no budget and no name Why hiring pipelines should be built to eliminate risk, not to collect yeses How to spot hunger and ownership without mistaking confidence for signal When holding on too long damages culture more than letting go early Rather than offering a checklist, this episode explores how founders think when the answers are unclear. It is about judgment calls, standards, and accepting discomfort as the price of building something that lasts. Our biggest takeaways, including Paddy’s view on where founders consistently misjudge people decisions: https://followthegradient.io/p/paddy-lambros-podcast-video  — Where to find Paddy Lambros: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patricklambros/  Dex: https://meetdex.ai/  — 🎙 Follow the Gradient: conversations about building a business from Europe while staying sane. Follow us:  Melanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniexgabriel/  Christian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-woese/  Subscribe to our channels: Newsletter: https://www.followthegradient.io  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@followthegradient LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/followthegradient/  X: https://x.com/followgradient  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followthegradient/ — 00:00 Introduction 02:49 The  journey from startup to VC 05:19 Hiring slower versus scaling at all costs 07:01 Deciding early roles from first principles 08:39 Attracting talent without brand or budget 11:40 Clarifying your employer value proposition 14:04 Structuring the hiring funnel like sales 17:56 Using case studies and workshops effectively 20:51 Evaluating hunger and long term potential 24:04 Onboarding for time to first value 26:44 Holding a high bar during probation 29:56 Executing layoffs with clarity and focus 35:56 Founder evolution and role layering over time

    41 min
  8. Hustle Nearly Cost Me Everything | Adrian Locher, Serial Founder and Investor

    FEB 5

    Hustle Nearly Cost Me Everything | Adrian Locher, Serial Founder and Investor

    Apply the concept of "Your personal Energy Audit" Adrian mentions here: https://followthegradient.io/p/how-to-protect-mental-health-with-the-energy-audit What happens when the traits that make you win are the same ones that quietly undo you? Most founders learn how to push. Few learn when stopping is the harder, necessary move. Follow the Gradient sits down with Adrian Locher, Managing Partner at Merantix Capital, a multi time founder and early stage investor who has seen the cost of relentless ambition firsthand. After exiting a previous company, Adrian pushed harder than ever, until burnout, depression, and personal loss forced a reset . This conversation explores how high performance actually works over decades, not months, and what founders miss when they treat endurance as a personal flaw rather than a design problem. We talk about: Burning out at the peak of success, not during failure Why founders’ greatest strengths often become their most dangerous liabilities The moment productivity collapses when fear quietly replaces curiosity Separating family time and work to eliminate the constant guilt loop Treating recovery as a non optional phase, not a reward Leading teams by modeling boundaries instead of preaching balance This episode is less about fixing habits and more about examining how founders relate to fear, ambition, and self worth when no playbook applies. It offers a lens for thinking clearly under pressure, before pressure turns personal. Our biggest takeaways, including Adrian’s view on what founders misread about endurance: https://followthegradient.io/p/adrian-locher-podcast-burnout  — Where to find Adrian Locher: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianlocher/  — 🎙 Follow the Gradient: conversations about building a business from Europe while staying sane. Follow us:  Melanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniexgabriel/  Christian: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-woese/  Subscribe to our channels: Newsletter: https://www.followthegradient.io  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@followthegradient LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/followthegradient/  X: https://x.com/followgradient  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/followthegradient/ — 00:00 Introduction 03:52 Burnout at the peak of founder success 05:26 Ignoring early symptoms until everything stops 12:56 Therapy and structuring life around three buckets 20:09 Building companies as a marathon, not a grind 23:49 Leading through authenticity instead of toughness 28:06 Fear as a hidden driver of overperformance 32:25 Helping yourself before helping the company 33:58 Mentoring founders to avoid the lowest lows 37:48 Redefining success beyond money and status

    42 min
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Insider knowledge and real stories about how to build a business from Europe while staying sane. Each week founders Melanie Gabriel and Christian Woese dive deep into one specific topic on a founder's or startup operator's mind and share how to solve the challenge together with an expert. Follow the Gradient and stay tuned. https://followthegradient.io/

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  • Creator
    Follow the Gradient
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    75
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Follow the Gradient
  • Show Website
    Follow the Gradient

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