Greg Laurie: Daily Devotions

Greg Laurie

If you want to be successful in the Christian life, you must have a mind full of God’s Word. Refresh your mind with it daily, right here. Each day, you'll receive a verse and commentary from Pastor Greg Laurie, who offers biblical insight through humor, personal stories, and cultural commentary. Start listening and hear what God has to say to you.  *The audio production of this podcast utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie.

  1. 22h ago

    Gaining an Enemy | 1 Peter 5:8–9

    “Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour. Stand firm against him, and be strong in your faith. Remember that your family of believers all over the world is going through the same kind of suffering you are.” (1 Peter 5:8–9 NLT)   In our next set of devotions, we’re going to look at considering the cost of following Jesus. The first cost we’ll consider is the spiritual enemy we gain when we start to live for Christ. Anyone who has ever experienced the Christian life knows it is the greatest life there is. God takes a life that was empty, aimless, and headed to a certain judgment, and He turns it around and transforms it. He removes all our sin. That’s more than enough right there, but then He puts the righteousness of Jesus Christ into our spiritual bank account. That’s called justification. He removes the guilt that haunted us, fills the emptiness inside us, and takes up residence in our hearts. This all comes as a result of the gospel being believed and followed. That’s the good news. The bad news is that there are some new problems that come along with all of that. You get rid of an old set of problems and inherit new ones. As the great Bible commentator Ray Stedman once remarked, “A Christian is one who is: Completely fearless, Continually cheerful, and Constantly in trouble.” Once you become a Christian, you gain a very aggressive adversary who has set his crosshairs on you. That adversary is the devil, Satan, and he wants to undermine you. He wants to bring you down. The Bible warns that “everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution” (2 Timothy 3:12 NLT). To “suffer persecution” means to be hunted, to be harassed. We need to be aware of this so that we’re not surprised when attacks come. The Christian life isn’t a playground; it’s a battleground. I think a lot of people believe in a watered-down gospel, and thus they have a watered-down faith that isn’t really faith at all. They’ve heard so many sermonettes that they’ve turned into Christianettes. They’re not prepared for spiritual battle. We must not make that mistake. We need to understand who we’re up against. The apostle Peter wrote, “Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8 NLT). There’s no need to panic. But we must come to terms with the reality that if we live a godly life, persecution will follow. We need to prepare ourselves for the inevitable attacks. We need to strengthen our areas of vulnerability. We need to stay close to the Lord through prayer and Bible study. Our enemy is formidable, but he can be resisted. God has equipped us with everything we need to stand strong against the devil.   Reflection question: What are the best strategies for standing strong against our spiritual enemy?   Harvest Crusade tickets are fully claimed—but it’s not too late to participate and witness what God does on July 11. Invite your loved ones to watch online with you and make sure you join the waitlist in case more tickets become available. — The audio production of the podcast "Greg Laurie: Daily Devotions" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."   All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  2. 1d ago

    The Worst Possible Choice | Matthew 7:13–14

    “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.” (Matthew 7:13–14 NLT)   In our us-versus-them culture, the concept of Hell is reserved almost exclusively for “them.” Many people who believe in Hell believe in it for other people, especially for those who do awful things. They believe Hell is for people who commit horrible crimes without getting caught or punished in this lifetime. People can point to Hell and say, “Well, they’ll get theirs eventually.” They take a comfort of sorts that there will be a final judgment and that evil will be punished forever. However, the people who view Hell in these terms don’t like the prospect of facing judgment themselves. It’s okay for “them” but not for “us.” But the reality is that it won’t be just the master evildoers who are sentenced to Hell. It will be everyone who chooses to go there. And make no mistake, it is a choice. People who end up in Hell do so because they made a strategic decision to be there. Hell is not what God wants. He’s gone to unimaginable lengths to make sure that no one goes there. Yet people still choose to go. Hell is a prison in which the doors are locked from the inside. Well-meaning believers and nonbelievers alike tend to emphasize God’s love and mercy above all His other perfections. As a result, they conclude that Heaven is the default destination of every person. But such is not the case. Jesus said in His Sermon on the Mount, “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it” (Matthew 7:13–14 NLT). We go to Heaven because we make a choice to do so by putting our faith in Christ—and Christ alone. There is no other way to get to Heaven. No one is uniquely qualified to meet God’s righteous demands apart from Christ. No prophet, no guru, no religious system is going to do it. Jesus was fully God, and He was fully man. Thus He, and He alone, was able to stand in the gap for us and pay the price for our sins. That’s why the Bible asks, “So what makes us think we can escape if we ignore this great salvation that was first announced by the Lord Jesus himself and then delivered to us by those who heard him speak? And God confirmed the message by giving signs and wonders and various miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit whenever he chose” (Hebrews 2:3–4 NLT). If you blow off God’s offer, that’s your choice. But you’re going to face the consequences. What will you choose?   Reflection question: How would you explain the concept of Hell to an unbeliever? Harvest Crusade tickets are fully claimed—but it’s not too late to participate and witness what God does on July 11. Invite your loved ones to watch online with you and make sure you join the waitlist in case more tickets become available. — The audio production of the podcast "Greg Laurie: Daily Devotions" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."   All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  3. 2d ago

    Starting with the Right Foundation | Matthew 7:24–25

    “Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse because it is built on bedrock.” (Matthew 7:24–25 NLT)   While spending time at the beach, I’ve watched people construct some very elaborate sandcastles that took hours and hours to build. I admired their creativity and persistence. But I also knew those impressive structures wouldn’t be around for very long. It was only a matter of time until either a tide came in and swept them away or a toddler appeared out of nowhere and demolished them. The builders could do little to prevent this eventual erosion or destruction because their efforts were doomed from the start. They used sand as their foundation. And though it may seem like an unusual analogy, I’ve seen many married couples make similar mistakes. They build their marriage on “sand,” like those impermanent sandcastles. They build it on fleeting emotions or sex or some other rash impulse. And they discover all too soon that a marriage must be built on something stronger that will sustain it. Jesus concluded His Sermon on the Mount with an illustration about the importance of building our lives on the right foundation. His illustration can be applied more specifically to the importance of building a marriage on the right foundation. Look at His words: “Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse because it is built on bedrock” (Matthew 7:24–25 NLT). Jesus didn’t speak of storms as something that might happen. He described them as something that will happen. Marriages go through changes. They go through trials. That’s why it’s essential to build a marriage on the right foundation. Those who do will come to know the truth of Proverbs 18:22: “The man who finds a wife finds a treasure, and he receives favor from the LORD” (NLT). When Jesus quoted Genesis 2:24, He placed God in His rightful position at the center of the union between a man and a woman: “Since they are no longer two but one, let no one split apart what God has joined together” (Matthew 19:6 NLT). And notice how many Scripture passages that deal with maintaining and thriving in a relationship all begin with the assumption that the Lord is at the center of it. The apostle Paul wrote, “Make every effort to keep yourselves united in the Spirit, binding yourselves together with peace” (Ephesians 4:3 NLT). He also wrote, “Make allowance for each other’s faults, and forgive anyone who offends you. Remember, the Lord forgave you, so you must forgive others” (Colossians 3:13 NLT). Is your marriage on the Rock of Christ or on the rocks? If it’s built on the Rock, then it will stand the test of time. If it’s built on the Rock, then it will weather the storms. If it’s built on the Rock, then it’s built to last.   Reflection question: How can you tell if a marriage is built on a solid foundation? Harvest Crusade tickets are fully claimed—but it’s not too late to participate and witness what God does on July 11. Invite your loved ones to watch online with you and make sure you join the waitlist in case more tickets become available. — The audio production of the podcast "Greg Laurie: Daily Devotions" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."   All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  4. 4d ago

    A Heart Undivided | Matthew 5:8

    “God blesses those whose hearts are pure, for they will see God.” (Matthew 5:8 NLT)   The apostle Paul wrote,   “I don’t mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me. No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, I press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us.” (Philippians 3:12–14 NLT)   This is a prime example of a person with an undivided heart. Many of us today could say, “I focus on these eight things” or “I focus on these four things,” instead of saying, “I focus on this one thing.” Such is the problem of a divided heart. Jesus emphasized the importance of an undivided heart in His Sermon on the Mount. He said, “God blesses those whose hearts are pure, for they will see God” (Matthew 5:8 NLT). The word pure in this context means “undivided.” In other words, blessed, or happy, are the people who have a singular focus. Happy are the people who strive to maintain a pure heart. Happy are the people who know where they’re going in life, who have priorities and live by them. Happy are the people who aren’t trying to live in two different worlds. The apostle Peter explained why trying to live in two different worlds isn’t an option for believers: “But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light” (1 Peter 2:9 NLT). We live in a wicked time, one in which we’re exposed to countless things that are spiritually harmful. This presents a serious problem for believers. As Paul wrote in Romans 16:19, “I want you to be wise in doing right and to stay innocent of any wrong.” Paul makes the case for an undivided heart in Colossians 3:1–4:   “Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God’s right hand. Think about the things of heaven, not the things of earth. For you died to this life, and your real life is hidden with Christ in God. And when Christ, who is your life, is revealed to the whole world, you will share in all his glory” (NLT).   God is offering you true happiness—happiness that’s not contingent on how much you have but on whom you know. If you don’t align your life properly with God, you will always be chasing an elusive dream. But if you do align your life with Him and pursue His will, you’ll find purpose in life. You’ll find the happiness you’re seeking.   Reflection question: What would an undivided heart look like in your life? Harvest Crusade tickets are fully claimed—but it’s not too late to participate and witness what God does on July 11. Invite your loved ones to watch online with you and make sure you join the waitlist in case more tickets become available. — The audio production of the podcast "Greg Laurie: Daily Devotions" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."   All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  5. 5d ago

    Poor in Spirit, Rich in Blessings | Matthew 5:3

    “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:3 NKJV)   Jesus began His Sermon on the Mount with these words: “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:3 NKJV). The word translated as poor comes from a verb that means “to shrink, cower, or cringe.” It describes a destitute person or someone who is completely dependent on others for help. You’ll notice, however, that Jesus didn’t just say, “Blessed are the poor.” He said, “Blessed are the poor in spirit.” Jesus wasn’t addressing people’s economic situation but rather their spiritual condition. Let’s not miss the implications of His words. Blessed, or happy, are the people who recognize their spiritual poverty apart from God. Blessed, or happy, are those who recognize what they really are in God’s sight: lost, hopeless, and helpless. Apart from Jesus Christ, everyone is spiritually poor. Regardless of our education, accomplishments, or religious knowledge, we’re all spiritually destitute. We may be tempted to look at someone who’s in prison or who’s down and out or who’s struggling with drug addiction and think, “Now, there’s someone who’s spiritually destitute.” We may be tempted to compare ourselves favorably with them. Maybe we’ve lived a relatively refined life. Maybe we have a good education or have accomplished certain things. If so, we may conclude, “I’m not as destitute as that person.” In one sense, that may be true. But in another sense, it isn’t true at all. Before God, all people are spiritually destitute and unable to help themselves. Some people have a hard time admitting this. It’s difficult for us to acknowledge we need to reach out to God and need His forgiveness. We prefer the illusion of being spiritually self-sufficient, of being good enough in and of ourselves. But the Bible doesn’t give us that option. What do we have to offer God—our righteousness? Romans 3:10 says, “No one is righteous—not even one” (NLT). Our good works? Isaiah 64:6 says, “We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags” (NLT). The only thing we can offer God is our sincere humility. James 4:10 says, “Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up in honor” (NLT). To receive the blessings Jesus talked about, we must embrace our status as being poor in spirit. We were created to bring glory to God, not to ourselves. When we prioritize Him by humbling ourselves, we connect to our original purpose. We find a soul-deep sense of satisfaction and fulfillment. We discover our spiritual potential when we acknowledge our spiritual poverty.   Reflection question: How do you maintain a spirit of humility in your relationship with God? Harvest Crusade tickets are fully claimed—but it’s not too late to participate and witness what God does on July 11. Invite your loved ones to watch online with you and make sure you join the waitlist in case more tickets become available. — The audio production of the podcast "Greg Laurie: Daily Devotions" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."   All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  6. 6d ago

    Salt and Light | Matthew 5:13–16

    “You are the salt of the earth. But what good is salt if it has lost its flavor? Can you make it salty again? It will be thrown out and trampled underfoot as worthless. You are the light of the world—like a city on a hilltop that cannot be hidden. No one lights a lamp and then puts it under a basket. Instead, a lamp is placed on a stand, where it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father.” (Matthew 5:13–16 NLT)   The religious leaders of Israel thought that they had eliminated the problem of Jesus when they crucified Him. But instead, they multiplied the problem. His disciples started preaching and performing miracles. It was as though Jesus had returned. And so He had—in the hearts and lives of His people. This reminds us that one of the best arguments for the Christian faith is a transformed life. New believers are ideal advertisements for the Christian faith because their lifestyles change, their attitudes change, and even their countenances change. The greatest biography of Jesus is written in the words and actions of His people. Your godly lifestyle is a testimony, just as if you were a walking miracle, like the lame man whom Peter and John healed. In His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said,   “You are the salt of the earth. But what good is salt if it has lost its flavor? Can you make it salty again? It will be thrown out and trampled underfoot as worthless. You are the light of the world—like a city on a hilltop that cannot be hidden. No one lights a lamp and then puts it under a basket. Instead, a lamp is placed on a stand, where it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father” (Matthew 5:13–16 NLT).   Even if you don’t tell people that you’re a Christian, they will sense something different about you, and they will watch you. As a representative of Christ, you’re like a walking lightbulb. If you’re being the kind of follower of Jesus that God wants you to be, if you’re being a “salty” Christian, then your lifestyle will stimulate a thirst for God in others. The greatest compliment you can get is when people want to know more, when they approach you and say, “What is it about you?” That’s your opportunity to “turn on the light.” One paraphrase of Scripture puts it this way: “Through thick and thin, keep your hearts at attention, in adoration before Christ, your Master. Be ready to speak up and tell anyone who asks why you’re living the way you are, and always with the utmost courtesy” (1 Peter 3:15 MSG). Are you ready?   Reflection question: What does being salt and light look like in your life? Harvest Crusade tickets are fully claimed—but it’s not too late to participate and witness what God does on July 11. Invite your loved ones to watch online with you and make sure you join the waitlist in case more tickets become available. — The audio production of the podcast "Greg Laurie: Daily Devotions" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."   All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  7. Jun 10

    Murder by Hate | Matthew 5:21–22

    “You have heard that our ancestors were told, ‘You must not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.’ But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.” (Matthew 5:21–22 NLT)   “You must not murder” (Exodus 20:13 NLT). At first glance, this seems like the easiest commandment in all of Scripture to obey. Most people can say, “I may not be a saint, but at least I’ve never killed anyone.” But in His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus reframed the idea of murder and brought it closer to home—maybe a little closer than most people are comfortable with. Look at His words: “You have heard that our ancestors were told, ‘You must not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.’ But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell” (Matthew 5:21–22 NLT). That’s quite an expansion of the concept of murder. It’s not simply an act of physical violence; it also involves thoughts that are less than wholesome. Jesus was saying, “I’m not just telling you that it’s wrong to kill someone; I’m saying that it’s wrong to hate someone. I’m saying that it’s wrong to hold anger in your heart toward someone.” With those words, Jesus turned one of the easiest commandments to obey into one of the most challenging. Is there anyone you hate? Is there anyone who could cause your blood pressure to spike just by walking into a room? Is there anyone who, though you may not wish them dead, you would not mourn if they did die? If so, then as Jesus said, “You are in danger.” You’re violating God’s commandment. You’re committing a sin for which you need to repent. That doesn’t mean simply confessing the sin; it also means turning away from it. The apostle Paul wrote, “Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and slander, as well as all types of evil behavior” (Ephesians 4:31 NLT). A spirit of love is evidence of our Christian faith. Love toward our fellow believers. Love toward our enemies. The fact that showing love toward certain people seems next to impossible doesn’t relieve us of the responsibility. The apostle John wrote, “Dear friends, let us continue to love one another, for love comes from God. Anyone who loves is a child of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7 NLT). That’s the key. The love we show others doesn’t come from us; it comes from God. We love people who are unlovable because God loved us when we were unlovable. When we choose love over hate, we strengthen our relationship with others as well as our relationship with God.   Reflection question: How can you show love to someone you’re tempted to hate? Harvest Crusade tickets are fully claimed—but it’s not too late to participate and witness what God does on July 11. Invite your loved ones to watch online with you and make sure you join the waitlist in case more tickets become available. — The audio production of the podcast "Greg Laurie: Daily Devotions" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."   All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min
  8. Jun 9

    Persecuted and Blessed | Matthew 5:10

    “God blesses those who are persecuted for doing right, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.” (Matthew 5:10 NLT)   The great preacher John Wesley was riding his horse one day when he realized that three days had passed since he’d been persecuted in any way. In that time, not a single brick had been thrown in his direction. He’d not been hit by even a single egg. He stopped his horse and said out loud, “Could it be that I am backslidden or I have sinned?” Slipping down from his mount, he knelt on one knee and asked the Lord to show him if there was anything wrong with him spiritually. A man who disliked Wesley happened by and saw him kneeling in prayer. The man picked up a brick and threw it at him, barely missing the preacher. When Wesley saw the brick fly by, he said, “Thank you, Lord! I know I still have Your presence.” Is it any wonder that Wesley was such a powerful preacher? The takeaway from this story isn’t that we should pray for bricks to be thrown our way. The takeaway is that opposition and persecution are often signs that we’re doing something right, spiritually speaking. There’s no reason for our spiritual enemy to attack ineffective believers. But believers who have the potential to make a difference for God’s kingdom scare him. So, he hauls out the big gun of persecution to try to silence them. If you’re a follower of Christ, your very presence will bother some people. You don’t even have to say anything to arouse their opposition. Your presence is like a bright light shining in a dark place. And for some people, that’s not necessarily a good thing. Jesus said, “God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil” (John 3:19 NLT). The persecution we experience because of our beliefs aligns us with the One in whom we believe. Jesus said, “If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first. The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you” (John 15:18–19 NLT). To be treated in the same way that Jesus was treated is an honor and a blessing. In His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said, “God blesses those who are persecuted for doing right, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs” (Matthew 5:10 NLT). Sometimes persecution shows itself as a brick coming our way—that is, as some kind of physical harm, or perhaps even death. Other times, it shows itself in the form of mockery or rejection and causes us to lose friends or perhaps even a job. Whatever form it takes, the reality is this: If you’re living a godly life, then you will face persecution. If you endure and thrive in the face of that persecution, you’ll forge a powerful testimony that impacts people more than words ever could.   Reflection question: What would enduring and thriving in the face of persecution look like in your life?   Harvest Crusade tickets are fully claimed—but it’s not too late to participate and witness what God does on July 11. Invite your loved ones to watch online with you and make sure you join the waitlist in case more tickets become available. — The audio production of the podcast "Greg Laurie: Daily Devotions" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."   All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest Partner Support the show: https://harvest.org/support See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

    4 min

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If you want to be successful in the Christian life, you must have a mind full of God’s Word. Refresh your mind with it daily, right here. Each day, you'll receive a verse and commentary from Pastor Greg Laurie, who offers biblical insight through humor, personal stories, and cultural commentary. Start listening and hear what God has to say to you.  *The audio production of this podcast utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known."All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie.

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